Patriot act

[isawlogs]

I wanted to know what the patriot act was ... sure found out ....but to tell you the truth i'd rather be debating wether it was black with white stripes or white whith black stripes...
  Then again a good debate is always informative .... ;)

[Duane_Moore]

isawlogs,  dare I be a smart a$$ but this law gives or enforcement offices the right to intervine in the lives of people if they have probable cause. this law can be seen by going to search bar and putting in "patriot act" this will help you understand it some,   I hope this helps,  Duh---Duane . :D kinda like the Zebra thing ;D

[woodrat]

Actually, the police and other agencies have always had the right to intervene in the lives of citizens if they had probable cause. There are many parts of this law that give them the right to fish around in people's lives WITHOUT probable cause. To be fair, the law also organizes the flow of information between agencies better, so that they can and will communicate with each other about what they are up to. I have no compalint with that, although I think the problem of non-cooperation between agencies has alot  more to do with "turf wars" and mutual mistrust than it did with the way the law was written.

[Buzz-sawyer]

Woodrat
So in viewing your response I can conclude you do not like America any better than any other nation?...
   Is that what you are saying?....
If so,I defend your right to say that (IF you are) to the death....and many truly superior people have already sacrificed in order to afford you that rare priveledge...which is NOT a universally available right.
The reason Americans are most honorable and our Nation is a shinning experiment....is that though we suffer the same inherent maladies of human nature ....we have endevoured on a course of unparalled adventure for over 200 years...one in which INDIVIDUALS have rights that are ABOVE those of the State rights that are for ALL people given by GOD to live as free men.

[ADfields]

Actually, the police and other agencies have always had the right to intervene in the lives of citizens if they had probable cause.

True enough but now they can pull any of your records and kick your door in without a warrant or even real probable cause.  They don't need probable cause to do none of it, they can now go fishing for a reason if they like and if they don't find one, oops sorry if your lucky!
Andy

[Minnesota_boy]

Most of the law enforcement around here won't kick anybody's door in as they are likely to be met with a rifle bullet in the chest.  That kind of welcome makes them pretty civil.

[ADfields]

Hear also! ;)

[Stan]

Ck, like the congress you've left out the parts that begin with Congress shall make no laws.....

[etat]

So, that gets ya back to square one.  You either have to interpet the constitution as a whole, that's why I posted the link, the whold thing wouldn't fit,  or just pick out the parts you want to use to make your points, just exactly as congress, who we elected, does. .  As I said, not so simple language, but  brillant ideas and concepts.

[RevCant]

I'm a little reluctant to throw in my thoughts on this one, its startin' to run a little hot .  But its still a free country, right?

I was a cop for seven years prior to going into the sawmill biz.  The interesting aspect of the 9/11 saga is that the FBI had all the tools it needed to get these guys, yet didn't do it.  You can not believe how incredibly political this organization is.  As street cops, we distrusted them.  

What the Patriot Act does is continue the long erosion of our liberties under the guise of security.  To the fellas out there who've said they have not lost any of their freedoms since 9/11, I wonder if they've gone to an airport.

Study the history of Germany from 1933-1939.  There are some interesting parallels that should give a person cause for concern.  We have joined in a course of action from which there is no return.  Does anyone really believe that there is a difference in the two political parties?  We are voting for people who no longer do the will of the people, but that of the multi-national corporate executives.  Folks, the correct political science definition for this is a fascist oligarchy.  The worst thing about posting this is knowing that the FBI will now put this in my file.  Who knows when they will bring it up?  But if you're a Patriot, you've gotta love the Act :'(.

RevCant

[woodrat]

Woodrat
So in viewing your response I can conclude you do not like America any better than any other nation?...
   Is that what you are saying?....

<
What I'm saying is that I don't believe that we are inherently superior people compared to people from other countries. I don't believe that our way of life is so superior that we have the right to impose it on other people, who may not want it. I don't believe that America's intentions are always innocent and for the good of all. I think that the American experiment has many things going for it, but I think that we have been moving further and further away from the orignal concept with each passing year, and I think that the Patriot Act is a perfect and somewhat extreme example of that.

 
If so,I defend your right to say that (IF you are) to the death....and many truly superior people have already sacrificed in order to afford you that rare priveledge...which is NOT a universally available right.

>
It may not be universally available, but we are not the only country in the world that tolerates a little "subversive" speech like mine. And the most likely threat to freedom of speech and the other rights laid out in the bill of rights, is our own government, rather than anyone else's government.


The reason Americans are most honorable and our Nation is a shinning experiment....is that though we suffer the same inherent maladies of human nature ....we have endevoured on a course of unparalled adventure for over 200 years...one in which INDIVIDUALS have rights that are ABOVE those of the State rights that are for ALL people given by GOD to live as free men.

>
So why should we be willing to turn that concept on its head in the name of "safety"? And truth be told, not ALL people have had the same set of rights in this country for over 200 years. Some kinds of people didn't get THEIR rights 'til much later. And speaking of 200 years, it makes us a relatively young country, by european and asian standards anyway. And I think a huge part of our success so far as a country has been that we managed to grab a pretty sweet chunk of real estate, rich in natural resources, spacious and relatively quickly cleared of its previous inhabitants. It remains to be seen how we will look as a country after we've been around for five hundred years or more, like many other older countries. Will we still be able to hang on to the concept of natural human rights and dignity? How crowded will it get, and how well will our bill of rights survive that crowding? How well will we have managed our wealth of natural resources? Plenty of clean water and forests and fields?

I sure hope so, but the spectre of unending war makes it seem unlikely that many of the things we cherish about America will still be around in fifty years, let alone 300.

Just my opinion,

Mark

[Buzz-sawyer]

Revcant
I can also see these erosions and have studied to the point of paranoia the negative effects of the liberalization of our wonderful nation ....and it is all true
 Trilateralists,
, skull and bones, industrial complex elitist, government collusion, one world order, ....and yet I love AMERICA to a degree I cannot express properly.
I have made a conscious effort to turn my efforts and thoughts from the negative FACTS
I.E....

away from the decline in moral black and white, to moral relativism....from promiscuity in pop culture and a school system that propagates ultra liberal NEA agendas....revisionists who try to re write a politically correct US history ....or the GROWING cynicism shared by a voting public in the efforts of the elected.

And I CHOOSE to Express hope and Optimism that this Nation will do what it always has that proves it's different than any before it or since.......
Grow and change as a result of a praying God fearing base of good whole some people who care about other nations, have a grounded sense of compassion, and the GUTS to FIGHT when its crunch time and not wine or cower  , rather fight to the death for RIGHT ......for HOME and the AMERICAN way of life!

[Haytrader]

I always hate to make the last post on any thread as it looks like no one is interested in what I have to say.

But I wouldn't mind being the last on this one.

                              ;)

[Buzz-sawyer]

Haytrader I think I know what you mean soo I will post after you then I can be last ...which is only fair since I been expressing my opinions rather freely...I recently kinda posted a similiar comment to yours on another political thread....

[Haytrader]

Fairs fair

 ;)