Another Newbie to your Forum. D. I am planning to get back into forestry. Worked in bush and at sawmills when I was a teenager, skidding with a team of horses etc. (that was 50yrs. ago). Anyway I am looking to purchase a saw mill, either a LT 35 or the TK1600. I am in Canada and WM prices are at least $1,000. more than what I see as pricing in U.S.A. TK on the other hand can be purchased in U.S. dollars and with the currencies basically at par, this is an advantage. Those are the 2 sawmills I can get here in Canada that are hydraulic. The HK salesman told me that he owned 2 WM mills before and that the 12 volt head system motor would not last needing replacement. TK being hydraulic was much more reliable. Also the LT 35 controllers require walk along for each cut whereas the HK ones are stationary. How important is it to be by the saw when cutting? I like the roller hydraulic toeboards on WM with HK optional manual (not roller). How useful are roller toeboards?
I would really appreciate any feedback you may have with regard to any of my uncertainties. ::)
i cant help with your question much but i can say welcome to the forum. i like the looks of both of those mills as well but my mill is all manual so any hydraulics looks good to me. pc
red pine,
Welcome to the forum. The 12 volt system works well on the Woodmizer. Each sawmill has it advantages/disadvantages. One reason I did not go with TK is that their salesman spoke negative of the competitors sawmill. :( No other manufactures salesman that I spoke to did that when I was looking.
Ron
that would be a turn off to me also. the mill shoud sell itself no reverse psychology necessary. pc
Paul,
I talk to Ed (Boardwalk) many times about his mills and I not once heard him say anything negative about the other mills.
Ron
Red Pine,
Any mill will only cut has good has you take care of them. Maintenance is important as well as keeping a sharp blade on the mill. Heck I cut some bad board with my LT40 because I pushed the blade to long. Will happen on all of them.
Ron
the hydraulics on my tk1600 are vveeeeerrrrryy slow in cold weather even after having changed to a cold formula oil. i've been on the forum for some time and have seen very little about mills with slow hydraulics in the northern states & canada. electric drive motors sound good to me. al
Thank you all for feedback. I was negatively impacted by TK salesman comments re: WM, but must add here that the place I can buy TK mill in Canada (one location to my knowledge), sales of saws is a sideline with most business in farm equipment. Ron who is Ed (Boardwalk)? What mills does he represent? Red Pine
Welcome to the forum, Red Pine. Both of those are fine mills, as are many others on the market. Base your decision on the quality and features of the mill, not on whether you liked the salesman's approach. Also look around for used mills. They're not that hard to find and sometimes you can save a pot full of money that way. ;)
I bought my B20 TK cuz it was a nice simple easy to work on mill and I'm glad I did. The hydraulics take about 10 minutes to get moving good at 0* F. Steve
red pine
look on the left side of the page. Link to his website. He only has manual mills.
Ron
RP
Something nobody else has mentioned. If at all possible, try to get a chance to operate both of the mills you're considering. Sometimes it just comes down to which mill you like to operate better.
medic
the ez boardwalk is a manual mill. ed is the owner of the company/ salesman. i am 3 years into trying to wear one out so i can get something more automated.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/20540/2953/sawmill_005.JPG)
pc
Quote from: red pine on March 16, 2011, 08:46:15 AM
... the 12 volt head system motor would not last needing replacement.
I haven't seen a TK so I can't help you there. I've got 1800 hours on my WM LT-40 hydraulic and the electric motors are working just fine. I think the carriage motor is starting to get a little "tired" but I added the board drag-back 4 years ago and I've been overloading it way beyond the manufacturer's specs.
Quote
How important is it to be by the saw when cutting?
I walk beside mine and it keeps me in shape. It also lets me inspect the cant's surface from the previous cut, check for defects, etc. I'd probably add a remote station on my next mill, but only if it came with the dragback option as well.
Quote
How useful are roller toeboards?
I had a manual WM without the roller toeboards and now I've got the hydraulic with.
If you're going to be sawing timbers, the rollers are pretty useful for unloading. If you're going to be sawing up into the 20' range the rollers are also handy for adjusting the position of the log on the mill -- you' don't get a lot of room to play around with at each end of a long log.
One thing you need to consider is availability of parts. Here in southern BC, if I call for a WM part before about 4:00 PM on weekdays it will be at the bus depot in town by 7:00 AM the next morning. Buses run on the weekend so even a Friday breakdown won't have to wait until Monday. Whether you can get that kind of service depends on where you are relative to a dealer.
Some mills use generic parts and will flog that as a "feature". That's all very well if you're close to a business that sells those parts. It's something I would really want to check into.
Have a look at the maintenance manuals, too.
Have you considered a used mill. There are lots of them out there & you can get more bells & whistles for the same money. I bought a used 1992 LT40HD & am very happy with it.
jim
You have gotten some very good advice on sawmill selection, so I'll just say;
Welcome to the Forestry Forum, red pine. :)
There are some pretty good mills out there but woodmizer orange is comparable to John Deere Green in terms of both quality and dealer support. The question I would ask is this; If you are going to spend 20000 ish for a mill what is an extra 1000 bucks worth to have the orange paint?
As far as the head control motors go I have not any problems with mine so far and I haven't heard of a lot of problems with those motors posted on here.
Redpine, welcome to the forum. There are lots of mills out there when you start looking. I am 20 miles east of Bancroft and I know of a fully hydraulic Baker in my area. There was a top of the line Woodmizer at the old Martin's Mill and I'm sure if you start asking around you should be able to find others. Manufacturers will generally put you in touch with local owners so you can see one on site. PM me if you want to see the Baker. I can't guarantee that you will see it running but I should be able to get you a walk around at least.
:P Thanks for all the responses to my posting. More to consider particularly seeing the mills operating. Saw TK operating but WM Cdn. H.O. are still in the freezer (nextmonth I guess they will be defrosted.) Bandmill Bandit I won't see red if I buy orange? Red Pine
r.man, yes I would be interested in the Baker if it is a mid size mill with hydraulics, not the one with cummins diesel, which I could not afford. The Wood-mizer (I assume located where the old Martin Lumber Co. mill existed) may be of interest as well, but the party may not be selling. Red Pine
Quote from: red pine on March 17, 2011, 10:57:01 AM
Bandmill Bandit I won't see red if I buy orange? Red Pine
I forgot to say welcome to the forum.
No you wont see red if you go orange but you may have to breath a lot of blue air around your mill if you don't go orange. I know one mill I tried out had me cussing the *DanG thing about every second cut.
If we were a bit closer to each other I would offer you my 2007 LT40HDG28. I want to move up to an LT50.
red pine,
One of the things that I notice that works well with Woodmiser (power feed) is if your blade guide gets hung on a knot it will stop the head without tearing things up. I not sure how it is done if you have a hydraulic drive.
Ron
Quote from: ronwood on March 17, 2011, 02:58:09 PM
red pine,
One of the things that I notice that works well with Woodmiser (power feed) is if your blade guide gets hung on a knot it will stop the head without tearing things up. I not sure how it is done if you have a hydraulic drive.
Ron
The same on my B20 with hyd feed, 8000 hours and not one problem yet. Steve
Redpine, I didn't mean to suggest that the Martins saw would be for sale, I just thought that if it was in operation you could probably watch it cut. The Baker does have a diesel but I don't know if it is a Cummins. I will check to see what model it is.
Redpine,
All great advice your getting. As your still in the research phase, you may want to check out Cooks saw Mfg. They make a really solid machine and provide great service. They are a sponsor here and you can find their link to the left with the others mentioned. Oh, and welcome aboard!
Chet
Steve,
How does your mill sense that your blade guide is hung on a knot and back of on the driving the head forward. It a good feature to have.
Ron
The only problem with woodmizer (IMHO) is they hold their value. :D If you ever need to sell,that orange paint sells itself. But I am not known to ever consider selling my 2. Some people keep spare parts, I keep a back up mill :)
Quote from: ronwood on March 18, 2011, 12:34:10 AM
Steve,
How does your mill sense that your blade guide is hung on a knot and back of on the driving the head forward. It a good feature to have.
Ron
It has a bypass valve . Steve
Welcome to FF, Red Pine. This is easier said than done, for me, but with $20K to spend, you might not be far at all from being able to purchase an older LT-40 super. If you found an owner around who either isn't using his that much, or who is sawing a lot, but could be tempted to upgrade, you might be able to get a very good deal which would pay off in increased productivity and resale value. Maybe more work than ordering a new one. But not that much more work in terms of upkeep, IMO. These mills require eyes wide open with respect to maintenance and adjustments from one end to the other even if they're new, so the difference with an older one is that you might have to buy more parts, not that you have to know a lot more right up front.
If your going to spend $20000 on a used mill you may as well spend $25000 on a TK2000 and get a real mill with 100% hydraulics except for the power guide. The TK2000 is built like a tank and should require very little maintaince. Steve
r.man, thanks for looking into the Baker. By the way I would want a portable mill. Sorry I miss read your comments re: the Martin mill. Red Pine
It appears sharpening bandmill blades is a big issue with need of sharpener and setter. Are there any suggestions for these tools as they appear quite costly from the manufacturers. I realize the cleanness of log is key factor and unfortunately water, power washers, etc. not readily available on my woodlot. Are debarkers worth gold in this instance. Red Pine
red pine
I would recommend a debarker if you could afford it. Woodmizer has a resharp service. Some of the other manufacturer might have them.
Ron
Redpine the Baker is definitely a portable all hydraulic with a drag back. Will be able to check the model this weekend.
iv'e owned other brands..... go with w.m you won't be disapointed. you can talk about sawing wood or with orange you will be cutting wood. they have a first class customer service dept.
Quote from: red oaks lumber on March 18, 2011, 09:29:32 PM
iv'e owned other brands..... go with w.m you won't be disapointed. you can talk about sawing wood or with orange you will be cutting wood. they have a first class customer service dept.
My Grand dad always said Green in the field Green in the Bank. Yes they cost more to buy, command a higher price when you sell parts are bit more but you just have way less down time because ALL the parts are good as original so you break down less.
Wood mizer is the Green machine of the sawmills.
That Orange paint is worth every penny you pay for it and it will pay you back many times over.
In your situation Debarker is a must. I wouldnt buy a mill with out one now that I have it.
A couple of 5 gallon jugs of water a day will be all you need for the blade lube/coolant add a half cup of Tide or some other soap. winter time use windshield washer anti freeze with the soap as well.
When your out in a remote place cutting wood the last thing you need to be doing is running to town for parts every 3rd or 4th log. Sharpening gear is a good investment. Will pay you back in pretty short order WM build good sharpening system. I would spring for the dual tooth setter. I have the cnb grinder and love it. The single tooth setter is a PIA but it will get the job done.
Time to take the orange glasses off, WM is way to complicated. After 8000 hours on my B20 with very few repairs I made the right choise. I get a lot of comments from my customers that it saws better and faster the the WM guys they used to have saw for them. Cooks and Baker also have a nice simple mill. Resale is a mute point unless you trade every year, I paid $20000 and would get at least $12000 for it now, not many of you will run a new mill for 8000 hours and lose any less than $8000 . Buying used a mill might not lose any value if you get it cheap enough. Steve
Steve,
What is your reasoning that the Woodmizer is more complicated that a TK.
Also a lot of how the mill cuts is how the sawyer takes care of the mill and how sharp the blades are. I don't care what manufacture sawmill you have a lot depends on the sawyer.
Ron
Red Pine
Welcome to the Forestry Forum!
I have always said "Anyone with simple basic mechanical skills and the ability to read can maintain a Wood-Mizer"!
This is getting stupid. If you love your sawmill fine. If you would recommend it fine. Talk about what you know and leave the rest of it alone, you don't need to be hammering on the other guy's choice on a mill if its not what you chose. This ain't a pissing contest.
Hi Jeff :) :)
r.man, Did you have chance to check on the used Baker and get the Model No. and perhaps hours used on the saw. New mills seem to have small discounts now, (Mar.31) but with metal prices up, they may cancel discounts. Thanks again. Red pine