Paying for yard trees

[Ironwood]

For those of us occasionally getting yard trees, you are playing the averages. Most will be junk, but occasionally you hit a home run that make it worth it, Like the curly maple Daren got ahold of a few years back, WOW. Now Daren you will be subjected to several years of "drought" looking for another like it. I explain this to the customers with "valuable" trees as well as the expensive equipment needed to retrieve the logs. I did recently buy a few BIG cherries. I paid my buddy to get them down. They were right up the street, easy access, no hassle deal. I ended up ahead but there is risk for great loss, if they are not prime cherry or walnut I am not interested. These were 16" small end and 12' long straight as an arrow and not a knot on them. They were in the big woods behind a fairly older development, and were the second log up, so little chance of metal. Nice. I like the quote "a logger is just a phone call away" as well.

                          Reid

[Daren]

Now Daren you will be subjected to several years of "drought" looking for another like it.

I don't consider it a drought, I have rationalized the whole deal to myself and consider it "conserving manpower and wear on the equipment"  :D. I pass on alot of logs, $1.50 bft oak is the same labor/overhead/storage as $15 lumber, why mess with it. I can saw less and make more by only taking something worth sawing. I will still mill whatever nasty little junker someone else brings by custom, that pays for my gas and blades when I want to mill one for myself. Like I said when I first got my mill I was overeager to use it and anything semi round, semi straight with bark (sometimes without bark) I was burning gas, blades and daylight. Now my mill can set a few days without me worrying.

I recently had a computer crash and lost most of my pictures (hard lesson about backing things up on disk  :'() but I still have a few. I may, or someone else can start a thread "show me your yard logs". Until then I will post a couple pictures here of "free" logs I saw. I will skip the big curly maple, I have beat that into the ground already.

Here is some of the lumber that came out of that big oak log the excavation contractor dropped off (I of course had 24" wide stock too, and some wicked 1/4 sawn, but the pics were lost when my computer blew up  :) This is a bad picture, but you can still see a little curl.


20" wide ash from the neighbors lawn mower shop, delivered with his forktruck. The log was 36", my skidsteer would not pick it up.


18" wide clear walnut dropped off by a contractor, part of two semi low boys delivered. A case of adult beverage per load for the driver was what it cost me for all walnut 14"-16"+ small end on the little ones, most in the 24"-36" range. They cleared the trees on a "no burn job", they had to haul them off anyway.


8 logs from one cedar yard tree. The butt was 24" x12' and no nails  8). This was from a guy I had never met, he was a friend of a friend of a friend . He works at a commercial/production cabinet shop and does some tree work on the side and sells firewood. Since cedar is no good for firewood he gave me this log. I did flip him a few bucks, he dragged it 40 miles, gas ain't cheap. I hope he comes back we spent an hour looking at my burls/curly wood, he understood what to look for.


Some curly walnut I sawed from a yard tree. This was a custom saw job...that cost me free logs. A guy brought me this log to saw and his neighbor came with him. The neighbor was an old guy who said he had 3-4 walnut down I could have to get them out of his way. I could tell this log was curly and told the guy he had a prize, he didn't understand so I explained to him curly walnut was worth some $ to the right people. The next day the old neighbor came beating on the door and had changed his mind about giving me the logs "I think I will just hold on to them for awhile" (he was 92 and they had been down for 2 years  :, whatever) They musta got talking and the old neighbor figured he had a fortune and wasn't giving me the logs. They neither one knew what curly meant. I had to show the guy who I milled/dried it for what walnut is supposed to look like, he still didn't really get it. He is not a woodworker, and will not sell it either. He just had the log milled because he was expanding his driveway and the tree was in the way. The lumber will set in his shed.


Some walnut stump wood. The road commissioner I mentioned earlier dropped this off with the townships endloader because I said I wanted to try to saw one. I have access to 100 more, but this one may be my last. Too many hidden rocks. The guy brings me whatever I want though. He takes care of all the country roads for a good radius and several old cemeteries. He drops off good logs from clearing work several times a year. If I am in a bind and need something he always "finds" it for me, they will just go cut one from a road ditch, fencerow, river buffer...He has brought some beauty honeylocust, osage, mulberry...stuff that most people wouldn't think to bring to a mill but I like.

[Ron Wenrich]

Sometimes I think not paying for logs can work against you.  If you don't need logs, fine, don't pay.  But, if you're looking for quality logs, you should be able to pay something.  You may end up having a reputation as the source of last resorts.  When no one else will buy it, they call you.

Then your yard trees become a self fulfilling prophecy.  All the yard trees you get are bad because no one else wants them.

[Daren]

All the yard trees you get are bad because no one else wants them.

It is a different situation around here, nobody really wants any of them except for firewood. I am one of a very few mills that will take them, even for free. I guess I have to explain the geography. I live in a rural area, just towns of 1000-5000 spread out every 10 miles or so separated by nothing but tilled farm land. There are a couple large industrial towns within 50 miles. The timber business is not even thought of around here, it is corn and beans and industry. There are places I can go around here and look to the horizon in all directions and not see a single tree, just corn. There are more trees in town than in the country. The loggers are getting logs from 100-200 miles away.

And I have to explain the mindset. In a farming community most trees are looked at as something in the way of the plow. 95% of the town folk don't understand the value of wood either. Most big walnut yard trees are cut down and hauled off because they drop too many nuts and make for hard lawn mowing. I have beat my head against the wall for 4(?) years trying to get them to stop burning them. I have given interviews to the paper, went to city council meetings...I mentioned all that in another thread in this section. Still I drag good sawlogs out of the municipal burnpile.

The tree services (that I don't work with) mostly haul their logs to a burnpile. Some sell firewood. A very few sell by the ton to pallet companies , but I get first dibs on the good stuff. I only deal with the tree services that are good dudes, I give them 100 referrals a year, so a nice free log every once in awhile is not a problem for them. I do like I said pay for their labor/gas if they went out of their way to get it to me.

There are 2 kinds of mills around me (within 75 miles). 95% of them are circle mills cranking out production and buying semi loads several times a week to fill orders that they are behind on (mostly pallet/ties/blocking...). There are many cabinet shops around, but they buy wood from out of state again by the semi load? The cabinet shops are corporate production shops selling to the "big box" home improvement stores. The circle mills are not selling furniture grade material, the market is not here on a big scale. The cabinet shops have their suppliers mandated to them by the corporation, they buy in bulk and trucking costs are offset.To keep up with demand the circle mills don't have time to mess with yard trees, they have loggers that supply them with raw material. The loggers don't have the time to mess with yard trees either, they go in and log 100 acres of hardwood at a time to supply the circle mills.

There are smaller Amish cabinet shops, but they do everything in house logging/milling/drying/fabrication is all done under one roof so to speak. The same with a couple small pallet companies. The really small pallet companies will take yard trees, but they are making pallets so they are not paying enough to really count. But still most of them do their own logging in the timber.

The other mills are bandmills, some are more production based too but they only custom saw. A very few get into the lumber business so most turn away logs that would just clutter up the yard. They want to just saw for others and not try to store/market lumber. The local lumber market is just hobby woodworkers really. If a guy wanted to really make any money selling lumber around here he would have to wholesale through a broker and most guys (including myself) don't want to get tied up like that with inventory.

I think this is the 3rd or 4th time this has been said, if I wanted to pay for logs I have a couple loggers phone numbers (they drive by here every day with semi loads heading to the circle mills) People are literally looking for a place to get rid of ones and twos from their yard or farm. And like I said too the only people really paying any decent money for logs from a yard are small time woodworkers who have them milled by a guy like me. They have a "swapping network" one feller may get ahold of a big walnut and have it sawn, his buddy may have just got a big cherry. They neither need all of what they got so they trade to keep a variety around.

My situation may be totally different than others, but that is just the way I do it. All it will take is one yahoo to buy a mill and start paying top dollar for yard trees around here. That sets the market value and changes the way things are done now...I am not going to be that yahoo  : . I want them for "free"  ;)

[TexasTimbers]

. . . I recently had a computer crash and lost most of my pictures (hard lesson about backing things up on disk :'()  . . . . .

For shame for shame. How many warnings did I give you directly and indirectly? I made a post here, elswhere, sent you an email making sure you didn't make my mistake AND EVEN TOLD YOU IN A PHONE CONVERSATION not to NOT have a backup plan. You have no excuse young man!  smiley_confused  smiley_argue01 ;D
I bought one of those cheapo U3 Smart Chips with a 2GB storage. You can upgrade it too to be able to do all sorts of stuff with it then even carry it around in your shirt pocket and bascially have your own computer in your pocket and just plug it in any computer. Like the one you have to buy when your hard drive crashes. But you have heard all of this before. So do you have a backup now ???

ANYWAY did not mean to rant (yes I did). My first experience with a free yard tree was in 1988 or 89 when my MIL to be, or new MIL (can't remember if it was pre or post mistake) asked me to remove the walnut tree from her front yard because it was making her car sticky every year. : I was only vaguely aware of the value of BW but since I had been wanting to get into woodworking seriousl by then I knew the wood would come in handy.

She paid for me to rent a big chainsaw from the tool rental place. Had no idea what I was doing. Survived it though. Then I hired a wrecker to come out and lift the huge trunk onto my borrowed flatbed utility trailer, then carried it to just across the border into Oklahoma where a guy had a dad who had a Woodmizer, which i had never heard of before. They had bought a Satterwhite log home kit and he had bought the WM to cut the porch and garage and other sundries for the house. He told me to call him in a couple weeks. I did. He said he'd been too busy call back in a couple weeks. I did. He said he had been too busy call back in a couple weeks. i did. He said he'd been too busy "I will call you when i get to it". He never did. That was what 18ish years ago? I wonder if he ever got to it, and how his walnut cabinets look.

[Daren]

"I will call you when i get to it". He never did. That was what 18ish years ago?

It outta be good and dry by now  :D :D.

So do you have a backup now ???

Well, some things I just gotta learn the hard way  , unfortunately that is my nature. Yes I do...and thanks anyway for the advice I did not take  :, I do recall getting it (insert "in one ear and out the other" smiley thing)

[Dodgy Loner]

He told me to call him in a couple weeks. I did. He said he'd been too busy call back in a couple weeks. I did. He said he had been too busy call back in a couple weeks. i did. He said he'd been too busy "I will call you when i get to it". He never did. That was what 18ish years ago? I wonder if he ever got to it, and how his walnut cabinets look.

:D :D :D  I can almost relate to you on that one, kevjay!  WDH is nice enough to mill my logs for free, but he lives 3 hours away, so when I have more than one load of logs I take them to a local sawyer.  When I dropped off the birch and cedar logs that I mentioned earlier in this thread, he told me he would call me the next week to mill them.  A week went by, and he never called, so I finally pestered him enough to set up a time to mill them.  We only got half of them done, and it took another two weeks to get him to set up a time to finish the job.

While I was there, I was commenting on some big walnut logs in his woodyard that had been there for at least a year.  He told me they belonged to a customer, and he was meaning to call him sometime to set up a time to saw them :.  I'm glad I took the time to pester him, or my birch logs would probably be sitting in the same spot for another year.

[Warren]

:D :D :D I can almost relate to you on that one, kevjay! WDH is nice enough to mill my logs for free, but he lives 3 hours away, so when I have more than one load of logs I take them to a local sawyer. When I dropped off the birch and cedar logs that I mentioned earlier in this thread, he told me he would call me the next week to mill them. A week went by, and he never called, so I finally pestered him enough to set up a time to mill them. We only got half of them done, and it took another two weeks to get him to set up a time to finish the job.

While I was there, I was commenting on some big walnut logs in his woodyard that had been there for at least a year. He told me they belonged to a customer, and he was meaning to call him sometime to set up a time to saw them :. I'm glad I took the time to pester him, or my birch logs would probably be sitting in the same spot for another year.

DL,  We have a local gunsmith cut from the same bolt of fabric.  Nothing gets done unless you pester him.  Dropped a rifle off at the end of one deer season.  Didn't get finished until 3 weeks before the next deer season.  Only then because I asked for the pieces to go somewhere else.  Now I drive 4 hours round trip to a shop in Louisville.  But the work gets done in the same month.  Generally only a couple weeks.

[thurlow]

Reminds me of the story.............liberally paraphrased.........Fellow is in the Army in 1943, home on furlough,  carries a pair of shoes to cobbler shop in closest big town to get re-soled.  Ships out to ETA, survives, comes home, gets married, etc.   Forgets all about his shoes.  In the late 90s, he's driving thru city, decaying downtown and lo and behold, there's the shoe shop.  Just on a whim, he stops and goes in.  Stooped old man behind counter..........fellow explains about the shoes, apologizes for not having ticket.  Old man says hold on a minute, goes in back, comes out, says, "Can you come back Friday?  They should be ready."

[Dodgy Loner]

Well Warren, since you know what it's like to have your work put off for months at a time, I'm sure that you're much more considerate with your customers ;).

Thurlow, great story :D.  I guess that kind of personality is common throughout all professions, and isn't just limited to sawyers ;D.

[WDH]

[ I'm glad I took the time to pester him, or my birch logs would probably be sitting in the same spot for another year.

At least they would be nicely spalted.  That is probably how spalted wood got invented ;D.

[Dodgy Loner]

Good point.  I bet 90% of the world's supply of spalted wood comes from procrastinating sawyers :D.

[WDH]

Yes, and if they tried to reproduce it, it would flummox them

[Part_Timer]

Well I'm odd man out here because I have bought logs from yard trees a couple of times, but I had a market for the lumber on both ocasions.

I got a call from a guy that had a large sycamore that had been removed for building a barn.  I went down to look at it.  Boy was it big.  30" across and 26' long.  No limbs no clean up just the log.  I made him an offer and he took it.  I went down and cut in into 66" lengths to fit in the kiln and rolled them on the trailer and went home.  It is now going to be the new floors for the kids rooms.  I payed .10bf

The other one I bought was a one out of a yard.  I went down to look at it and it was an uprooted walnut.  The ladys son had cleaned up everything but here was the trunk setting at a 45 degree angle out of the ground.  I made an offer and she took it.  I backed the trailer under the trunk, fired up the chain saw and dropped it on the trailer and moved out.  Payed $35

I don't pay much for them and I only pay if I have a standing request for the lumber.  That way I'm not sitting on capitol.

[urbanlumberinc]

We had a few violent microbursts here the last few days and I've been burried in phone calls from homeowners with downed trees.  I look at the logs, and if I'm interested, I'll offer to arrange the cleanup and removal through one of the liscensed, Insured tree services I work with regularly.  The tree service in turn, gives the homeowner a discounted price for the cleanup and removal.  Usually works out great, until the other day when this knuckehead calls about a downed walnut.  As walnuts go around here this was a good log, but not the best I've ever seen, woulda sawed up into about 300bdft give or take.  I give the guy my standard offer, which clearly upsets him.  Seems he'd done a little "reasearch" and had come to the conclusion that he had a 3 thousand dollar log laying in his front yard.  I gently explained to him that at most, the cut and dried lumber was worth maybee 1500, and that in any case I would not be paying anything for the log, only saving him money on the removal.  After some thought the guy proceeded to get beligerant and accused me of trying to defraud him out of the log and all other sorts of chicanery.  I politely wished him luck with the sale of the log and went my way. 

[Daren]

I do some talking to the people who do get them sold. Most often they tell me it is to a woodworker (for less than they thought I should pay) who takes it to a mill for himself.

Seems he'd done a little "reasearch" and had come to the conclusion that he had a 3 thousand dollar log laying in his front yard.   After some thought the guy proceeded to get beligerant and accused me of trying to defraud him out of the log and all other sorts of chicanery.

I kinda eluded to that situation, but did not go much further into it. I will now. Some people are suspicious by nature. If a guy with a sawmill shows interest, it MUST be worth something. They think we are going to make a fortune on their tree, since we are in the business. (as I mentioned before, it can take a small fortune just to get into the business). I said I did some talking to people who had sold logs that I passed on, and they usually sold to woodworkers who ended up bringing it to me to mill anyway. This "research" you spoke of is far too common, it is done at the coffee shop/gas station/derelict brother in law/clueless neighbor...not in OUR world. They don't know about the steps between a log and a finished/marketed product, each step costs money/labor.
I know for a fact guys who wanted me to pay $100 for a log for example have sold them to a woodworker for $50 (round numbers but you get the idea). Because the woodworker was not trying to "con" him out of his valuable log and get rich with it.I mean jeez, the people with the logs call us.
I run into that type very infrequently, probably less than 1-100, but the few I do stick in my mind. More often than not the people are reasonable from the get go, or at least can be reasoned with in a short conversation.... If not I do what you did, there will be another just like it soon. And with any luck it will not belong to a guy with the same attitude. Fact is the logs are theirs, and they are free to whatever they wish with them. But I don't get involved in all the drama with unreasonable people and their misguided expectations.

  I politely wished him luck with the sale of the log and went my way. 

[Furby]

Ebay is another "research" place I've found many folks use.
They don't look at "if" or what it sold for, but what's being asked for it.

[Tom]

Handled like a gentleman.  If he's upset with your truth, he needs to find someone who will buy his truth.  Politeness never loses a customer.

What he might have entertained was an offer to saw the log for him and let him make the $1500, minus your company's charges for sawing, knowledge, risk, wear and tear, and damaged blades.  That can also be backed up with an offer to help him determine a saw he could buy to perform the job for himself.

Products are worth a lot more when someone else is responsible for creating the profits.   

[urbanlumberinc]

Remembering back, I had a guy tell me, while discussing log values that he'd seen walnut slab dining tables that sold for 12 grand, and that there must be enough for at least three of those in his log.  "Lemmee know when one of those pops out of your log, and I'll buy IT from you instestead of this log" was my reply.

[urbanlumberinc]

What he might have entertained was an offer to saw the log for him and let him make the $1500, minus your company's charges for sawing, knowledge, risk, wear and tear, and damaged blades.  That can also be backed up with an offer to help him determine a saw he could buy to perform the job for himself.

I'll be sure and use that next time, thanks Tom

[Dodgy Loner]

Landowners are more ignorant about the value of walnut trees than just about anything :.  I was a teaching assistant for a dendrology class at UGA for three years, and I always mentioned some of the uses for a particular tree as I was teaching them to identify it.  When I told my students that black walnut was among the most valuable types of lumber in North America, one of them asked me after class if I would come tell him how much the trees on his parents' property were worth.  I never pass up an opportunity to walk through the woods, so I dropped by one afternoon.  The students' dad, thinking he had a fortune on his hands, was noticeably disappointed when I informed him that his grove of walnuts, which ranged from 4" to 12" in diameter, would be worth about $150 a cord as soon as he cut them into firewood :D.  That student was much better-informed by the time he graduated from the forestry school ;).

Funny thing is, a lot of landowners around here have the same opinion of their persimmon trees.  Most don't seem to realize that persimmon golf clubs haven't been in vogue for the last 30 years.

[mechengineer13]

I guess I should consider myself old or out of vogue since I still play with persimmon woods.  My wife says I am anyway. ;D I started as a kid with a set of hand me downs from my grandfather that had wooden shafts.  Don't know what type of wood though.  Guess I might as well leave those persimmons behind my house standing and wait on the lottery win.

[Dodgy Loner]

You could move to Japan and still be fashionable.  Persimmon clubs are considered a status symbol amongst Japanese golfers, but Americans are still infatuated with the titanium alloy woods.  Interesting, because I once read that in a side-by-side comparison with the Great Big Bertha golf club (one of the more expensive brands, apparently), persimmon clubs averaged only 2% less driving distance and were more accurate in the hands of an average golfer.  I still think you're more likely to strike it rich playing the lottery than with a stand of persimmons :D.

[Max sawdust]

I did not read the entire thread yet but was hoping for some feedback on my situation....
I milled up a 32" butt log of a Red Oak in a friends yard.  Feel I should pay something.   Especially since it had no hardware in it and perfectly clear ;D  Also I milled up some real nice Red Pine from the same yard last year, milled on halves,  considering "buying" his half since he will not use it and paying him something for his RO ???
This log was better quality than most I can buy:
Lots of nice 9" wide QS., 8)  This puppy was sweet
Max

[Dan_Shade]

2 cases of his favorite beer.

if it's a friend, he's happy that it didn't get chunked into firewood.