Logging with Cat D6D Dozers

[sawmillsi]

G'day guys,

I am looking at buying 2 D6D dozers for logging in Africa. I have used them before in PNG and they were just right.

Actually, I looking at buying brand new ones not second hand ones (they are made in China to Cats drawings, specs etc... - the parts are all interchangable with Cat D6D dozers).

Could you offer any comments about workability, what to look for when buying one, reliability etc...

Simon

[Gary_C]

Cat's are usually top shelf for reliability and price. Hard to say what one made in China would be like. If you are working mostly in sand, expect very high track maintenance costs regardless of the make.

Around here most loggers would have a dozer only for road building and creating landings. Tracked machines to move logs in the woods are considered too slow and do too much damage to leave trees and soil. If you are select cutting hardwoods in steep terain, a cable skidder is preferred. The others are using feller bunchers, a big grapple skidder, and a slasher back at the landing or a cut to length processor with a forwarder.

Hard to say what is best without knowing the specifics of what you will be cutting.

Gary

[sawmillsi]

Thanks fpr your reply Gary,

I need a machine that will pull big logs (up to about 7' diameter and up to 60' long) short distances, though tropical rainforests. Little to no sand in the soil, mostly clay and organic matter.

I also need a machine that can make roads and skid trails.

Problem with feller bunchers and forwarders (and every to a degree wheel skidders) is the technology involved. I would have to fly a technician in from South Africa, Europe or the US to fix the machine (or even service it).

As no local operators have any experience in skidders (there are none in Angola as far as I know), I would be scared to start off using them, would be more likely to phase them in over 3-4 years.

Dozers, although can create more damage with poor operators, compact the soils much less and as fuel is very cheap for us (about US$0.06 per litre) slow is not really an issue.

Are there any inherant problems with the D6D? Transmisson problems, hydraulic problems etc... that I should be aware of?

Simon

[Sawyerfortyish]

Sounds like a dozer will work well for you . But for me a skidder is the only thing that works well. I have shale ledges and rock you can't even stay sitting in the seat of a dozer over that. In winter the tracks and cleats freeze up rubber wheels don't. But in Africa you don't have the winter snow and ice problems we have here. I have found that a skidder is much easier and cheaper to maintain than a dozer and is easier to fix because it has less moving parts subject to wear.
  Now about those 7'dia 60' long logs..... Dang thats some piece of wood. Are you sure a D6 will pull that? I don't think they make a skidder big enough to do that. I don't know. What kind of saw do you use to cut it down?  Man I sure would like to see some pictures of these trees being cut and skidded and hualed to the mill

[sawmillsi]

When i get back i'll take some pics for you.

If it won't pull it in 60' lengths, i'll get the guys to cut it back to 20' lengths.

We currently use STIHL 070 with 36" & 42" cutter bars, but I am upgrading to STIHL MS880's with 36" cutter bars - going to restrict the diamter to 6'.

Si

[spencerhenry]

wow! unless those d6's run on water, thats cheap.  $.06/liter. i wish i could find diesel for under $2/ gallon, or about $.50/ liter. but what does fuel consumption have to do with amount of time spent skidding. as far as maintenance/ repair,  a skidder is not a whole lot different than any other machine, if they can fix a chinese made d6, i would bet they could fix a skidder. dont mean to be contradictory, but skidders are made to do what they do, and they do it well.

[sawmillsi]

Yeah, but they can't angle the blade to make roads.

Like i said, my goal is to phase them in - otherwise i have to teach them how to operate them as there are none in the country, so no one has every driven one before.

Also i need the versitility of making roads and hauling logs.

[Ed_K]

 I've heard that cat equipment made in china have inferior castings. Check the specs real close. You can get skidders now with angle blades. I'd like to cut some logs of that size  8).

[Scott]

I've seen skidders used for blade work.....it's pretty rough. If you want a good grade then use a dozer, skidders aren't made for it also a dozer can pull more (but theyre slower). A skidder would be less maintainance but theyre not as versitile as a dozer in my opinion. I'd rather buy a second hand american made d6 then a new chinese one  :D. check out www.arrowwest.com they ahve lots of used D6D's. Most of them are off the oilfields and have good guarding, anglr blades and winches, also they have many low ground pressure machines.  Sounds like fun, can't wait to see some pictures

[Andy Mack]

wow Simon, you sure do get around

[Dom]

http://www.unb.ca/web/standint/nbcc/machine/skidding/pshepp_b.html

I found a little info about D6 skidders, and I thought you might want to see it as well. Its from the University of New Brunswick website. They have info about other type of machines as well.

[Tillaway]

Hmmm... Chinese Cat, The parts might be cheaper but you may wind up with more down time since you will be breaking them more.  Some of the local loggers bought korean made shovels for a while, the price was right but they made up for it in down time. 

Be sure to get a good forestry guard package for them, limb risers and such.  It would be pretty easy to put a jill poke through the radiator or cab without guarding.  Are you planning on using these as line machines?  If so consider using the new amsteel rope by Samson rope for the drum line.  Its a high tech fiber thats stronger than steel and a whole lot lighter and easier to splice.

[sawmillsi]

Tillaway,

Do you know a website where i can find this wire rope?

Simon

[hillbilly]

              I've spent lots of hours on D6's B's M's R'S Ive been on most of them and almost all of them are under powered I don't know if I would go w/the D6 I think that I would find a couple of 8'n s or D8rs  w/winches now those are real machines theyll push dirt till it will roll over the blade and still keep plowwing  ;D. We have an old 8k w/a winch on the back of it we use it to tow 637 scapers out of the mud or to tow ones that died in action  :'(.
              IF IT AINT A CAT IT'S A DOG ;)
                    hillbilly   

[Scott]

 Anything over D6 size seems be a bit clumsy in the woods. The D6 is a nice size, not the best at anything but decent for just about everything. The d6 and D7 are very popular machines around here for working on logging roads. CAT now offers thier D6N in a special forestry package, all the track options are available on it (standard XL LGP), also you might try looking at a cat cralwer skidder  ???

[sawmillsi]

Scott,

I agree, we currently have a D8 and we can never really load it up so it working hard.

I would like a couple of Cat track skidders, but $$$$$ is way to much.

Simon

[Tillaway]

http://www.samsonrope.com/home/arborist/featuredprod.cfm?ID=1

Its not wire, its recycled pop bottles.  They had a booth at the logging conference and during one of my training sessions (Cable Logging systems) the folks teaching the class have been using it with great results.  It has no stretch, really light, and for its diameter it is every bit as strong as wire rope.  They have been spooling cat and skidder drum lines with it and use it to rig intermediate supports, guylines and such for the yarder operations.  Evidently they have spooled it on a yarder as a mainline or haulback.  They can't use it for skylines since the carriages clamp to them.

The problems have been hardware related and they now offer appropriate hardware, bells, nubbins, thimbles and such.  I heard the cost is 4 times more expensive than wire rope.  Not sure about that though.

[hillbilly]

                      Never had the chance to run a 6n but the 6r xl lgp is a good machine lite on the gruond those wide tracks will almost walk across water.its amazing at how much differece there is in a wide track and a standard model the N series are good mach they have the hyd stat sterring control and forward and reverse on the same handle as do most newer models alot faster and easier than the old G,B,K models that are all over the country .I could see wree an d8 would be a little big ,how about there D11 rxl dont worry about cutting off the stump just push or pull the whole thing to the decking yard ;D

[aom]

sawmillsi

Cat d6 are a sweet size, but if your handling logs up to 7'diam I would go for a D8!. A comment from relatives logging in Philippines, PNG and Indonesia is go for cat as they are tougher than Komatsu, fit proper brush guarding, as if the site is extreme it is highly probable machines will roll. Guarding thus protects operator, exhaust pipe and protects machine. If site is wetter, go for a smaller machine as the larger ones will bog down, hence relatives preference of d7 rather than d8 in certain sites. Likewise go for a machine which has grease[hydraulic?] system for tightening tracks, as inevetably a track will come off at some time and it is far easier to tighten up the tracks with one of these grease systems rather than winding a spanner for quite some time[ and perhaps having to release the seazed up thread first]. More and more are moving over to wheeled skidders, but they do nat have the winching safety that track machines have therefore a good option is to use a cat on steep slopes and heavy winching, then using a wheeled skidder to skid further distances due to their faster capability. But in reality apart from skidding to central collection points, often in the tropics they use military 6x6 trucks. they are cheap, heavy duty, easy to repair and maintain and are far quicker to transport logs. Many of these ex-military trucks likewise can be rigged up with a winch and jib, to be used for loading, or wiching large logs up to roadways, especially when fitted with ground anchors
regards Aom

[Mark M]

You get what you pay for!

You would be better off buying old 46A D8H's and rebuilding them than imitation Chinese tractors.