I'm starting a build on a wood splitter here next week, it'll be a simple 3pt linkage tractor mount with vertical beam and spool valve beside operator there somewhere.
I also want to have some kind of lifter attachment but I have been toying with the idea of making it a conveyor chain, rather than the classic lifting table. I'm thinking a ramp that would fold down from the operator table and set on the ground beside it (attached via hinge) and two or three conveyor chains driven by a hydraulic motor.
My thinking is, it is just as useful as a lifter table to use on your own, if you setup the foot on the bottom of it right and had chains low enough you could roll rings up beside it then let them topple onto the chains, and haul them up with the lever. But my main reason for thought is, we usually have another set of hands helping out when having a wood day, it would be great for someone to be able to line up rings in a que that the operator can pull on with a lever as he/she needs.
I can't find any examples of it been done, any reason why not?.
I was going to put the question to you larger sawmill guys, if it's not a silly idea, what kind of chain/guides would be most readily available/affordable? Obviously it will have an incline so needs teeth of some sort on the chain. And what kind of guides would one use for a weight bearing situation like that? I see plenty of profiled uhmw guides around but none who's specs mention if this is suitable for weight on the chains above it. I figure this is a small version of a sawmill chain/green chain/log loader whatever.
This popped up on youtube today.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x8UKPUUCFUw (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x8UKPUUCFUw)
I have messed with the idea of a vertical splitter but I picked up a old horizontal splitter the other day that I will try to improve.
My thought was to use a pair of 2"x6" x¼" tubing for the beam and some flat steel for the wedge, the wedge would be connected to a long piece of flat steel that ran in-between the 2x6 so I could mount the hyd cylinder behind the beam instead of sticking up above the wedge.
A quick search for "vertical wood splitter" came up with a "superaxe" which is very similar to what I was trying to describe.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4tF1-M2UNiw (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4tF1-M2UNiw)
Im not sure im following your chained log lift josh.. Can you sketch it? Is the chain in a loop or singled in tension like a cogged cable? Is the motor stationary and pulling the chain to raise it or is the motor on the lift and climbing an anchored chain like a gear rack?
Any why? What does it do for you that a cylinder lift cant? Rams are incredibly cheap and powerful at the linear force that a deck lift requires. A winch is next on my list if hydraulics are out. Id build a jib crane with a winch and tongs personally. Automotive spindle, hub and rim for the swing.
I think he is looking at a conveyer idea for a continuous supply of blocks to the splitter operator.
Not sure how much hyd volume your tractor has but I will say that my 3ph mount splitter that runs on my tractor hydraulics is rather slow. It has a 4" cylinder and I usually run it at 1700rpm which should be around 5 gal per min or 20L per min, the only way to speed it up would be to run the engine faster which seems like a waste of power and fuel or a smaller cylinder which is one of the reasons why I bought the second hand gas splitter (portability is the main reason).
I will mention that my brother has a tractor mount splitter that has a 3" cylinder and it is faster than my splitter it is also on a smaller tractor.
Oh okay maybe thats the ticket.. A powered roller table lift ?
Josh, your pretty young right? Isn't it time to start popping out kids? Before you know it they will be doing all the splitting :) or they could be the feed chain.
That processor is definitely getting work done! Bit more than I need...
I'll sketch it for you later Mike, maybe I don't need to now but yup, think a ~7ft steel framed ramp that folds down, end hits the ground next to your pile of rings, and has chains on it that loop, shaft with sprockets at each end and a hydraulic motor. A simple conveyor belt, but chains, so it doesn't tear when you put 200kgs of rings on it.
You wouldn't use the splitting ram and ramp at the same time, so no issue with flow.
I've been going back and forth about whether to suck on the tractors hydraulics, or take power off and drive my own pump. I have a t4 newholland here which has pretty decent flow rate, I've borrowed a vertical splitter off a family friend and run it on it and it's a pretty swift setup. Bigger machine than that "super axe" and much better built.
The t4 is one of the orchard workhorses so it would only get mounted when needed, then removed when finished. Which isn't that bigger deal.
I also have a fleet of 8 MF tractors, little 40hp Perkins diesels that sit around all year waiting for harvest. Useless flow rate but if I setup a 3pt machine I could pto from an MF, pulley up to pump speed and add a reservoir. It could sit on this tractor all year round. When people want to borrow it they can take the whole thing as long as they want. And I could pulley up so it's tickling away at 1000rpm or so, they run on the smell of an oily rag.
I've been looking around at pumps, plenty going secondhand at the moment, in the 65-80L/min range (17-21gal/m). At 80L my math says a 5" OD ram will do a 20" stroke in 3.6seconds. Set it all at an easy going 3000psi and that's a 20ton setup.
Kids will come soon enough haa not done making something of myself yet.
Quote from: JoshNZ on August 26, 2021, 06:42:10 PMThat processor is definitely getting work done! Bit more than I need...
Yes, was mainly posting it for the conveyer idea.
The separate pump idea should work. I have seen a bunch of home made ones around here like that, I think that they were stepping up the speed using chain and sprockets to avoid the belt tension problems, the splitters are probably 30 plus years old so it can't be too bad of a idea. Another option would be to over size the pump a bit to reduce the required shaft speed.
The conveyer could be belt driven as well by using the belt as a clutch but would need some type of oneway clutch or pawl to keep it from coasting backwards.
I already picked up a hydraulic motor this week. Saw it listed on our local auction site for $60 bucks ~40US. Put a bid in at that and no-one else bid. Didn't know what I was gonna do with it but a good find at that price I think.
I've been entertaining the idea of adding hydraulics to my mill or starting again on a bigger hydraulic machine. So have been jumping on deals like that that come up, with a quick browse during morning coffee. I've got a small collection of rams/pumps/hoses sitting there now.
Hilltop, I like that idea of the lift, Simple!!
20GPM at 3k psi off a sub 2k rpm is big roller chain territory.. Or big cogged belt but chain way cheaper.
My best advice, dont hotrod hydraulic flow. You spend a ton of money to hit a big number then you cant use the thing because the valves are too fast and touchy so it smashes into stuff if you sneeze. Plus the engine governor is up and down hard with every stroke.. Sorta annoying. I mean if all youre moving is a splitter ram and youve got Horsetorques to spare sure go 20+ gpm at 3k. But anything else is gonna need flow restrictors to control smoothly or its a catapult.
Is rings a kiwi term for bucked log pieces before splitting? We call them rounds.
It never has to reach 3k psi I just meant lower the relief valve down to that so nothing is working too hard.
Yeah I could restrict flow or run through diverter that wastes half back to tank or size the sprockets that run the belt right so it's all under control.
Getting back to my main question.. would I just run the chains on uhmw guides?
Rings/rounds/whatever yup I dunno what we call them. Don't stay whatever they are very long haha.
A delrin, nylon, UMHW or acetal skid would work well. Commercial cutting boards. In the USA "kittredge" is a good search term to find them.. They made stainless industrial food grade equipment for a long time.
I bet you could get a good solid hardwood to last quite a while if greased though.
That's a good idea Mike I bet you're right. Easy to swap out after building if not.
Is there a commonly used toothed chain I'd be better off sourcing that anyone knows of, pricewise?
a few good ideas are on the table so not sure what you are going to settle on but I used detachable link ag chain for mine. I think #40. got the cogs online, and used a gear reduced tarp motor for the power. so it was reversible, and could be free standing with a 12 V power source.
firewood conveyor in Firewood and Wood Heating (forestryforum.com) (https://forestryforum.com/board/index.php?topic=104843.msg1630742#msg1630742)
What attachments do the links have to grip the wood doc?
I got the chain at tractor supply and may have ordered the links with the uprights online. they had two stamped bits turned up, and that worked fine but some would skip over a link and get caught by the next one. so I welded a 2 x 4 inch paddle on the face of the 2 uprights, and it stood taller and caught the wood. it also made the link and uprights more stable and strong. if you read my thread, it would get stuck on thin wood on the edge, but then I trimmed the bottom side of the side supports round so it could clear it. I can see if I have links I can photograph
There is a store that do nothing but chain over in the city I'll ask them for a quote on whatever they suggest. I've seen chain with a spike as part of the link, I think that'd be ideal if they happened to have that. Anything from an agressive half inch single spike to that below
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DSCF0731 - YouTube (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VkIw9eM7gBM)
i like his return stroke resplit ontop the pusher box. that saves half a stroke each time.
note the round tube welded in between the legs of his live deck rails. if you have anything thats boingy and need to join two planes into one real rigid mass, round tube bracing is the absolute best. it will cancel out any torsion between the planes it is joining and the flimsiness factor goes away. big diameter is more important than thick wall. i use exhaust pipe all the time for that.
That is a very innovative concept York!
jmur1
When I designed and built my splitter I tried to keep it cheap and just used a 4 inch cylinder and old 12 hp kholer tractor motor with a 2 stage pump. When I first tested it it was very slow because of a poor wedge design. I just used a tapered wedge and the pump would kick down almost immediately slowing the splitting to a crawl. I then redesigned the wedge to a 2 angle wedge that cut close to 25% off the splitting cycle time by keeping the pump from kicking down so quickly. Well wasn't satisfied with that so I designed a new edge with a shallow knife edge and separate shorter off center 2 stage blocks. That really sped it up and kept the pump from kicking down early. Last thing I tried was elevating the chunk 2 inches off the base plate with blocks about 8 inches apart to get less pinching on the wedge. Well that really sped the cycle time up and basically all my splitting is now done without having the pump kick down and normally everything is split using under 800 psi on my pressure gauge. I found the wedge is a great place to start if you are working on speeding up a low flow system. I used bearing brass for my slide block liners because plastics would not last when I took into account for off center stresses from knots and cross grain. This is what my final wedge looks like and there is a provision for the 4 way knife.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/34694/DSC05136.JPG?easyrotate_cache=1385954020)
This is the splitter. I used a winch for the loading platform to save money
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Here you can see the log is slightly elevated. Over 10 years I haven't encountered anything under 24 inches long I couldn't split. I have several videos about it splitting on my YouTube channel.
Clever use of gear rack
Thanks for the links and ideas guys, very helpful.
I drew the whole lot today and sent off to the plasma cutters. Really going the luxury route this time.
I forget what I've said here already but I've decided to run it off the tractor and connect to 3pt linkage. I wrestled for days about how to gear up from a PTO crusing at ~300rpm to an external pump, but gave up on it. I'm just going to suck on the tractor aux and will go from there. Also just using a 4" OD ram now too.
There are lots of PTO step up boxes but they are all around 4:1 and designed for 540rpm. Like heck I'm going to sit there splitting with a tractor at wide open throttle.
300 doesn't sound like that much less but it is 55%. Nearly half flow. Best idea I could come up with was a right angle mower gearbox 2:1 driving a 4:1 step up gearbox, then a big pump. But it's a lot of money to spend to do the job slightly quicker on a different tractor... Chains and pulleys doing 10:1 was expensive and taking the pith too.
So it's gone back to a pretty basic bones model now unfortunately, I'll build on it and develop a I go.
nothing wrong with using the remotes. atleast that pump on there is dialed in for what the engine likes.
trying to run stuff at a low rpm and high pressure, high flow, is tough on parts. big load pulses. high rpm might sound bad to our ears but it spreads more of the work across more piston pulses so each ox in the yokes is tasked with a smaller step, so to speak.
Nice Job 21incher! I like the overall neatness. That is hard to maintain in this business.
Excellent looking build. Can you lift the hood for us? or opposite side pics?
jmur1
This is an old video that shows most of that.
My Homebuilt Left Handed Vertical Log Splitter - YouTube (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dv5U8Q1AT0A)
The only reason I built it was because there were no splitters with any kind of ergonomics at the time. Not fast but very comfortable for me to use. Sometimes building the item is the only way to get exactly what you want. Everything on this was cut from 1/4 surplus plate steel with a Bosch jigsaw and a whole bunch of metal cutting blades. Can't believe the jigsaw survived.
Sorry JoshNZ for posting this in your thread.
No trouble I'm interested in seeing it all.
I wondered with the return stroke detent, could you put holes with a locator pin for your approximate rounds height, so it doesnt retract all the way to the beginning of its stroke? I imagine the detent pressure trigger is pretty low and wouldn't need much of a pin?
Some of the vertical splitters I have seen locate the valve near the back or side of the vertical beam and have a foot pedal to keep both hands free, with the valve in the right location you can gear it up so that a adjustable rod on the slider can push on the valve to kick it off at the desired height. The foot pedal or valve leaver is spring loaded so that when you take your foot off it it automatically moves to the return position and stops at the set height. For this setup you can use a regular valve it does not need to be dented and a added bonus is the hoses will be shorter with the valve closer to the tractor.
They make c shaped spacers you can put on the shaft to limit the stroke but to pop a stuck log off with the big ones I have to back the wedge up into the eject plates so the spacers wouldn't work for me on big logs with wild grain that have to be rotated to split in half the way my ejection plates work. If you can find some elm for testing you will find its springy and doesn't always split straight or pop apart.
I started out thinking about a foot pedal but really never wanted to have to watch 2 hands. If I didn't need one hand to do final positioning I would have used a 2 hand deadman system for safety. I feel foot pedals and hydraulics can be distracting and dangerous because you're constantly changing your ballance on a machine like mine. If you had a chair to sit on they wouldn't be bad.
The simple answer to getting some production out of a wood splitter is conveyers. Blocks coming in, split wood going out. Nothing wrong with a lift table but a long level chained table, foot operated bring the wood in at waist level regardless of how it gets loaded is a big help. The object is to stand in one spot and produce at all costs. Foot operated machines means both hands free and if you get this far you will never go back. For chain an old silage wagon or manure spreader will have sprockets and #67 chain. If I had to buy new it would be 188 or 78 steel chain with 2,609 pitch sprockets. You can make these sprockets from 1" plate with a cutting torch and hole saw the eye and weld to shaft.
How on earth do you make a sprocket with a cutting torch hah popcorn_smiley
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:) :) :) :)
Lol I assume he's meaning a handheld oxy set doc. Get outta here with your fancy computer robot machine :D
It is 3 am what else you going to do!
Doc, either you need some coffee, or LAY OFF THE COFFEE :D ;D
It is diet Pepsi, till 7 am (my night) then maybe a double IPA before going to bed. had coffee before I cam to work last night (my morning)
Well, you're forgiven ;) Beer before bedtime, Indian Pale Ale. Between the wife & I, SHE is the one that likes her beer but I've never developed a taste for it. Fact, I'm just almost nothing about alcohol but rarely I do, just not my cup-o-tea.
Now I'm just waiting for food to creep into the splitter talk :D
I am not much for tea, although I like it. have a good friend who is a pain doc, and he brings us back tea from China. I often have a beer in the evening, after work (work at home or the hospital). I am not really on call, but really kind of always on call. everything in moderation. a beer in the morning helps me sleep when it is light outside, and the dogs bark at the ups guy around noon. I am on four nights, so I have to get some good sleep in there somewhere. 8) :) :) :)
Coffee is MY drink of choice thumbs-up and it actually puts me to sleep, even if it's highly caffeinated, I don't know why. Now tea, iced & sugar sweet ;), it's how I grew up (if I ever did ;D).
I'm boring, water for me and the occasional beer, a case last me 4 months or more.
Back to the splitter, I don't see the foot pedal control as a safety concern just learn to always keep you hands on the sides of the block. Locate the the pedal where you are not going to bump it accidentally.
And ideas for making the splitter stroke adjustable and still being able to use the log stripper, make the entire beam, cylinder and wedge moveable so it can slide up or down in the frame independent from the table and a large pin to hold it in place at different levels. Or if using a adjustable rod to kick off the valve on the return make it so the kickoff can be turned out of the way to allow you to bypass it to use the log stripper.
be sure if you make a rod stop to trigger the detent, it is substantial. I once tried some schedule 40 pvc as it seemed it required just a little bump to trigger the detent. I stood back 30 feet for the maiden voyage, and it still hit me in the groin as it flew off the rod. detent set at 1,000 psi. mine are aluminum halves with a spring clip holding them together around the rod. :o 8) >:( :)
Well that is a cool video 21 incher. The detents can be challenging to trigger early. I have see on other channels those C rings causing serious damage to the cylinder seals before kicking of the valve. I enjoy the whole topic of the conveyors to and from the splitter. I always wonder why nobody tackles the wood after the split. Someone needs to come up with a little (lightweight) box or tray that holds split wood in a jig so it can be placed in a stack when it is large enough. Anyone seen anything like that?
ps: my 4th coffee of the day generally comes right before my mid afternoon nap!
jmur1
on my second cup of French roast but I go to work at 7pm. there are some homemade, and some commercial wrappers. (what up dog!) I drop into the metal frames that surround the ICB plastic 275 gallon totes. then move out to store, and bring to the house for use in the winter with the track loader.
I have a plan this winter to build a box splitter unit. I will definitely use some of the ideas I have seen here for the infeed conveyor. On my processor build I went to a farm scrapper close to me and got the whole run of an old bale conveyor for my log infeed. I have to admit that it does normally work well; but any binding of the logs at all results in a broke chain. I do think it would be more than heavy enough for a chunk conveyor though. Maybe Ill redo the processor with a heavier version of chain and salvage that chain for my box splitter infeed conveyor.
I have been watch the videos and going over a plan in my mind for the single split unit. I think if I run some channels off the end of the box knife I can build a little frame to capture the splits and then index it down when 1 level is full. Repeat that process a couple of times and there would soon be a 1/4 face. 4 of these together stacks nicely and so on. This should be fun to try. Maybe Ive been watching robots for too long but I believe it can be done!
Planning on a nice 24 horse Onan and 28 GPM 2 stage pump. I will also use the complex valving I have seen out there for this machine. Now just need a couple of free minutes to get started...
jmur1
I think youre saying an accumulator elevator to catch the split wood. Look at how pallet scrag mills accumulate for some ideas on that.
Most of you guys hare tractors? right?
I had a plan a long time ago to make firewood racks out of steel that would hold 1 or 2 face cord. Have them setup with fork pockets, and make them modular so you can connect a tongue and wheels to it then drag it around or just lift it up using the fork pockets.
Unfortunately my cost to build them and sell them I think was to high. most ppl wouldn't want to pay for it. But in my mind it would be great to have a rack with the option of wheels or fork pockets parked out of the way then bring it to the house when you need it. the thought was also to add a cover to it.
Be nice to ha ve a series of these racks right next to the splitter and load them as you go. then move them out of the way. that way you are only stacking once and not having to constantly move them.
We have kiwifruit bins readily available in this area so that's what our firewood is stored in. Stacked 6 high in the shed. They're untreated pine (because fruit go in them) and each of the ~6 pack houses in the area must have 60,000 each in rotation. So it's never hard to come by them once they're getting tired.
I bought that forklift second hand start of last harvest for bugger all, because it had a smokey engine. New rings and a hone, and it has been a real honey of a workhorse, lives at the mill now.
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I had another thought regarding my conveyor ramp idea, I never really pictured it with small rounds but they would just topple over when you pulled the lever. Could probably make a fold down foot so if you're dealing with small rounds you set it up as a level infeed table. Am I trying to be too fancy for my own good should I just have a lifting platform?
that is what we do with the tote crates. conveyor into the crates. store out of the way moved with the track loader, and back when needed. can move on the sidewalk with a pallet jack. the wood can dry as it is dropped loosely into the crates. the only time I handle it by hand is on the splitter, and loading under cover by the house, and of course to bring in the house and load the stove. I cut the plastic cube into covers with grommets so they can be strapped to the top of the crates of wood to shed water.
Quote from: doc henderson on September 04, 2021, 03:22:02 PM
be sure if you make a rod stop to trigger the detent, it is substantial. I once tried some schedule 40 pvc as it seemed it required just a little bump to trigger the detent. I stood back 30 feet for the maiden voyage, and it still hit me in the groin as it flew off the rod. detent set at 1,000 psi. mine are aluminum halves with a spring clip holding them together around the rod. :o 8) >:( :)
If you use a non dented valve with a spring to hold the valve in the return position, the rod turns off the valve. (it's better than getting hit in the groin :o)
I bought a set of 1, 2, 3, & 4 inch clip on stops, that add up to 10 inches. takes my 32 inch down to 22 inch. good for the target of 16 to 18 inch wood for my stove. for an occasional longer chunk, no tools to unclip what you need.
Those crates are awesome, i woulda loved to have a pile of those when i was moving.
I make these now from slabs with the air nailer and chainsaw. A span of bailing twine keeps them from spreading.
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A zillion ways to skin a cat .As an alternative instead of relying on a detent a stroke control valve could be used with a shaft collar on the cylinder rod that could be adjusted for length .However it would not trip the detent just stop the flow I think .Depends on the type and how it's hooked up .
In my case with only 19" of stroke with a 24.5" range I really don't need it as the detent in the control valve does the job .Just a thought .I suppose though if you stacked about three sturdy shaft collars one after another you could get the same effect from the control valve detent .
Quote from: JoshNZ on September 04, 2021, 02:01:28 AM
How on earth do you make a sprocket with a cutting torch hah popcorn_smiley
With a cutting torch and a grinder. This is not roller chain. These conveyers don't even run [they can] they jog. The pitch for '78' chain is 2.609". It helps to have a sprocket for a pattern. In sawmill machinery this is a very common chain and pitch size. On my green chain there are 4 of these sprockets made in 8 pieces and clamped on the shaft. Everything was done with a torch. On our other conveyers we bought the sprockets as blanks and finished them. Amateurs are afraid of this hardware because it looks so expensive but if you cut and weld steel it is the best way to go.
you can also use a hammer drill with core bits in a mag drill to just blow holes into scribed and center punched locations in a flat plate. then clean off the trimmings with a portaband or even sawzall. itll give you perfect circles in the tooth gullet. just use the right sized annular cutter.
a little mathing will get you the right circumference scribed off a center point to lay out your tooth distance from center, and then a decent angle gauge can scribe each tooth location on the circumference line. a dividing head and a dremming drill in a bridgeport could also do this quite easy though not as clean as the annular cutter.
If I'm not mistaken in one of my machinists books it lays out the set up to cut sprockets .I haven't needed to so but I have machined sprockets for gear reduction old chainsaws .With the right set up there isn't much you can't do on a Bridgeport milling machine even if it is over 70 plus years old .Measure two or three times then cut once else you get to do it all over again----been there too ;)
Sometimes with a little searching and you can find a sketch and some dimensions that can help you scale up a pattern.
I also have a program that will make sprockets to the desired size - If you have a request Ill try it out.
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A-Plate Sprockets for WR78/WH78 Offset Sidebar Welded Steel Chain (https://www.usarollerchain.com/wr78-wh78-welded-steel-chain-a-plate-sprockets-s/2954.htm)
if you click on the sprocket in the link it will give you the dimensions for the different numbers of teeth.
jmur1
I've actually given up on the chain loader idea, simply because it wouldn't really work for queuing up small rounds which makes it no more useful than just a lifting platform, so that's where I'm going with it I think.
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This is where I'm at with it now, and have got the wedge machined up and the 3pt hardware welded on. I dragged the two rams apart yesterday and sent the piston off to hydraulic shop to order seals for.
I did find a 1:2.8 mower gearbox for cheap, and have got my eye on another pump with 85cc or so displacement so am thinking about going back to the PTO idea. What a rollercoaster.
It's all going to come to a crashing halt soon, haven't got a spool set big enough, or hoses yet.
the sprockets I got were available online. they are 4 inch diameter, and fit the detachable chain i was using. I think about 20 bucks. worth it unless you have all the equipment to make them. should be proper steel and hardness ect. I will try to double check the detachable link chain size, and see if I have any remnant of where I got the parts.
Josh that is a unique design. it looks great. can we get a pic from under the table. curious how that is all braced up. I assume the beam goes through enough to box it to itself and withstand the force generated.
The beam is welded at a right angle with stiffiners continuing off flanges and capped both ends. It would handle the tonnage by itself, the frame and bench are just there so you don't have to do it on the ground haha.
I'll get one from under later on.
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I like it.
But you may as well just go ahead and mount a trailer hub spindle up top for a gantry crane. Anderson quick connects off the tractor and a remote control ATV winch with tongs. Watch those whoppers wrestle themselves up on the table with one thumb press.
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I took a couple of pictures of my brothers wood splitter while I was in his garage today, It is called a Hall's wood splitter made in Cambridge Nova Scotia.
The pictures show the Non-dented valve with a rubber bungie cord that someone put on (I think it originally had a spring) when you let go of the valve the bungie cord puts it in retract and the adjustable kick out hits the piece added to the bottom of the valve leaver.
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That is pretty clever, I figured there was a way to make an auto return without springing for an expensive valve designed with it.
I'm not sure I like the idea of the ram always moving, that makes it either stopped at the top or descending/ascending but not stopped anywhere else right
Quote from: mike_belben on September 10, 2021, 05:08:58 PM
I like it.
But you may as well just go ahead and mount a trailer hub spindle up top for a gantry crane. Anderson quick connects off the tractor and a remote control ATV winch with tongs. Watch those whoppers wrestle themselves up on the table with one thumb press.
Haha :D that is definitely another idea
Quote from: JoshNZ on September 10, 2021, 05:29:12 PM
That is pretty clever, I figured there was a way to make an auto return without springing for an expensive valve designed with it.
I'm not sure I like the idea of the ram always moving, that makes it either stopped at the top or descending/ascending but not stopped anywhere else right
I used this wood splitter for 4 cord this year, It did't take long to learn to "feather" the valve if I wanted to stop and hold the pusher in any position however the down side was it occupied one hand to do it but that was minor, it would not be an issue with a foot control.
Adding to this idea for a horizontal splitter or processor that you may want a auto cycle valve without buying an expensive valve would be to make the control valve handle so it would pivot to the side a bit and install a bearing on the leaver shaft so that when you push the leaver forward the bearing would sit in a notch to hold it in the forward position until the ram is fully extended and then a bump on a rod pushes the bearing out the notch and the leaver is pulled back into the return position by a spring.
Quote from: JoshNZ on September 10, 2021, 04:38:33 PM
I've actually given up on the chain loader idea, simply because it wouldn't really work for queuing up small rounds which makes it no more useful than just a lifting platform, so that's where I'm going with it I think.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/47173/20210909_173145.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1631306122)
This is where I'm at with it now, and have got the wedge machined up and the 3pt hardware welded on. I dragged the two rams apart yesterday and sent the piston off to hydraulic shop to order seals for.
I did find a 1:2.8 mower gearbox for cheap, and have got my eye on another pump with 85cc or so displacement so am thinking about going back to the PTO idea. What a rollercoaster.
It's all going to come to a crashing halt soon, haven't got a spool set big enough, or hoses yet.
If you do enough fire wood long enough you will understand the chain conveyer / table .
Quote from: jmur1 on September 10, 2021, 12:57:24 PM
Sometimes with a little searching and you can find a sketch and some dimensions that can help you scale up a pattern.
I also have a program that will make sprockets to the desired size - If you have a request Ill try it out.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/44322/Untitled.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1631292862)
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/44322/Untitled2.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1631293010)
A-Plate Sprockets for WR78/WH78 Offset Sidebar Welded Steel Chain (https://www.usarollerchain.com/wr78-wh78-welded-steel-chain-a-plate-sprockets-s/2954.htm)
if you click on the sprocket in the link it will give you the dimensions for the different numbers of teeth.
jmur1
Great post. These sprockets can be bored and welded to a shaft, no need to broach and key. Do you know the meaning of 'A' or 'B' plate? I do not.
I liked the conveyer idea, it would be smoother and more continuous than a lift arm especially if you have some one to load it.
I'm not sure what the majority size of the logs are that you will be cutting for fire wood but if most were not larger in diameter than the block was long I was wondering if a more of a V or U shaped conveyer with a single chain in the middle would work with the rounds laying horizontal in the tray that way the smaller blocks will work too. If the conveyer was a bit higher than the table (maybe the centre of the axle half the height of a block?) the blocks of wood would stand up on their end as they come off the conveyer.
Haha Sheesh you guys are optimistic 😆 my firewood rounds are anything but uniform, unfortunately.
I bet there is an optimum distance I could have the two chains, narrow enough that smaller rounds can sit between them lying down and large enough that big rounds can balance.
Maybe I'll keep the idea on the table
I found what I had in a box of parts and pieces. here is some chain, a link, a stand up link, a tool for putting together and apart the detachable link.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/51041/71E2C3B7-FC4E-4265-867C-50CDD6AE43FF.jpeg?easyrotate_cache=1631327969)
I know a guy who sells a bunch of old stuff at a sawmill building plant and noticed he had a box of log table chain, it'd cost me next to nothing id say, but I would need to somehow add something to the chain for traction. I could get another friend to plasma cut me a hundred little triangles for next to nothing too I'm sure xD. And blip a triangle onto every second link with the welder ???
They used that type of chain on old corn planters etc . .On the subject if you are creative and can find old junk machinery perhaps the gathering chains from an old corn picker would work .
Doc H's picture looks like #55 steel detach chain. I use #55 commonly and #34 for my firewood conveyor. I commonly weld flighting (paddles) onto mine when I need to move potting soil in my nursery transplanting machine as well as a sawdust drag for my sawmill. 1" angle iron works best for sawdust flighting in my experience.
Like Doc H's picture shows there is also factory link attachments.
This is the company I use for chain and parts. Most everything they carry is also available on Ebay.
D & L Cahin, Inc. Home (https://dlchain.com/index.html)
the link did have a 55 on it.
The beauty of the steel '78' chain is that you can weld whatever you want to it. that is not so easy with 55 or 67 detachable.
What about CA557 chain. Boat loads of it available and an abundance of sprockets to suit.
Doesn't look like it has attachments but I spoke to my friend, sort of nudging him about plasma cutting spikes for me and scooping them out if his machines tank with a goldfish net xD..
But he said actually it is possible, microtab little points so they just fall apart, with a little burnt hold that I could just plug weld/fusion weld to every nth link.
Would certainly be cheap. Then machine a little guide strip for each chain out of kwila or something if the likes.
What say you guys haha..
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/47173/Screenshot_20210912-132814_Trade_Me.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1631410061)
work with what ya can get your hands on.
gold mine!
Another brain storm .If you can locate an old manure spreader they used some heavy drag chain .So did bale elevators if you can find one that didn't get sold for scape metal .
An old turd hearse often times can be long forgotten abandoned in the corner of a field or rotting away in a woods .It would have every thing you need, chain, flights ,sprockets .
Quote from: Al_Smith on September 12, 2021, 07:45:47 AM
Another brain storm .If you can locate an old manure spreader they used some heavy drag chain .So did bale elevators if you can find one that didn't get sold for scape metal .
An old turd hearse often times can be long forgotten abandoned in the corner of a field or rotting away in a woods .It would have every thing you need, chain, flights ,sprockets .
And that is how I built my first green chain, and old sileage wagon donated everything.
I've ended up buying some of this CA557 chain.
Adding spikes could be as easy as getting my filler rod stuck in the puddle as you do then cutting with side cutters haha. Might not be strong enough.
What's a quick way to add spikes to this chain several hundred times..
I do not know about the ca557 but the detachable link had links with uprights, and I welded paddles on without difficulty. there is one in the prev. pic. :)
Something cheap without a coating to grind off. Hot roll roundstock or clean rebar. Snipped off chain links U shape up like ice chains. Cutoff stubs of 1" square tube nubs or some such junk like that. Bedframe bits?
Quote from: doc henderson on September 12, 2021, 04:30:05 AM
gold mine!
A large pile of rusty, dusty chain...I'm thinking we need to refer to you as 'Country Doc Henderson'. A black medical bag, pickup truck, large dog, and an attractive co-pilot/navigation assistant...sounds complete?
:)
just want to be one of the guys! thanks. my email is oldochenderson so kind of the same thing.
my truck is an 07 1 ton dually, my wife is a 64 model and does OK, Libby is a German shepherd, and I have the leather bag, but do not carry it anymore. :)
I haven't had much time to work on the splitter and any work I've done has been the slow painful bits. This is where I got to. I'll turn this into a build thread, why not.
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The wedge must weigh about 70lb, I had to climb on the bench and drag it up the beam I couldn't lift it out in front of me. I managed to make the transition into the wider shoulder seamless so hopefully that helps.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/47173/20210915_183817.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1631693532)
So I've got a gearbox and some chain, some sprockets, they came out pretty crap there'll be some ribbing over that but I think I can clean them up. And I've got some hydraulic motors. I'm still wondering if this is a smart idea.
I'd say the max length I can go for the ramp is 1800mm/70" before I'm taking out doors and ceilings with it folded up, or doing a more complex joint at the top that lowers it when folded away. It makes it about a 30 degree incline.
Drawing below for what that looks like. Still look sensible to you guys?
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/47173/ramp.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1631693496)
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/47173/ramp1.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1631693495)
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/47173/20210915_184232.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1631693530)
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You could make the ramp a bifold that pins into one segment when laid out if you want it longer or more compact. That would make a handy bridge to lay right onto a tailgate and a helper in the truck puts rounds on as you feed them to the splitting deck.
I think i would set the ramp pivot flush to the table rather than above. And id use your spare chain and motors to build a matching out feed conveyor on the other side to drop the split wood into the bin or ttailer or other truck. If the conveyors are flush to the work deck you only have to slide the piece and flow can be bidirectional.
Just in case a jobsite lays out better to feed rounds from the right and wood off to the left. Or what if youre loading rounds from a tractor bucket then filling bins or pickups on each side. Build it to be flexible i think.
not be to suit your needs so much as to develop a licensable design that someone else buys from you in the future. Thats how i bought my homestead. Sold a manufacturing design.
A lot of work accomplished . Too late to copy the power split but I hope you copy their foot control style. Look mom, no hands.
Personally if I had a tractor with a FEL I would invest in a set of forks and build a couple of 4' x 6' pallets to hold the rounds and a table to set the pallets on right next to your splitter. A conveyor to haul away the split pieces is so, so useful. Nice build!
I'm not certain if I've shown this before or not on this forum .At any rate although not so pretty it is powerful .Took me about 20 years to round up all the junk and 4 days to put it together .Tank/axle is 8 inch pipe .Wheels and spindles Ford Escort .Beam is 70 some pounds per foot piling beam. Foot plate 2" steel .5" Parker -Hannifin super duty cylinder .16 GPM pump,Briggs11 HP electric start engine .Boat winch to lay it down and cable via the cylinder to stand it up .Too heavy to do it by hand especially for an old coot like me .
I have no idea or care what the cycle time is only to say I seldom run it much above half throttle and it will outrun me .For me it's all about function over form so no paint but it will split anything you put in it .I never had any thought about entering it in the local rod and custom show .
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my log table loader is adjustable for slope. I can load it by hand or have a bucket at the same level to just roll them across. if heavy rounds, I use a crane attachment and lift with tongs and place on the H beam splitting area. to transport I un-pin the table and stow it. I can swap sides, but never have used it different than it is currently set up, but I could.
I am not sure how to describe what I am thinking bout you could do a double arm hinge setup where the hinge point is actually on the side of the table. so as you flip the table up the part that is above the table will end up dropping below the table.
Could be similar to a flip up garage door mechanism maybe? Give you the ability to have a longer ramp and still fold up into a nice package. The other thought is since you have the splitter beam up high you could use that to lift the infeed and outfeed tables up. Now that I think about it a flip up garage door mechanism using the post as a lift point could work nicely.
Yeah a boatwinch ontop the beam. An eyelet at the fold point and an eyelet at the end point is how processors switch from stow to run mode. Same cable, just different attach point.
I was thinking if it was too heavy to lift I'd just put a pulley block up there and a little eyelit somewhere on the ram wedge. When I want to stow it away, hook the cable into the wedge and extend the ram.
I've got spare rams too, I could put a diverter valve on then hydraulic motor and then switch it to the ram to lift it up.
wow three solutions, good thread. 8)
On that with some creativity such as cable and pulleys you can utilize a cylinder for much much than a ram .You just have to think outside the box at times .You get to adding cylinders hither and yon you can quickly get a plumbers nightmare .Just a thought .
like remove a pin and use the main cylinder to move the rest into transport position.
ooh here is an idea. pulleys and cables that loop over the splitter end, close the cylinder like you were splitting and it lifts the infeed and out feed tables.
hehe, I can go on like this all day :)
its all fun and games until the pin bends and wont come out of the hole and now you cant fold up the wings to go home on time.
Use a heavier pin .FWIW the pin on the clevis to the wedge from the cylinder on my splitter is inch and a quarter and the bolts holding the cylinder to the beam are one inch grade 8 socket heads .
It's like Mike said, so be sure that it's in a shear plain & not a bending area. Much less likely to bend that way. Similar thought process to my receiver shackles that I use. They go in my hitch frame and I've NEVER even gotten a whimper from the pins. So overloaded that with a 4part line on my hot rodded & severely UNDER rated winch (it'll break 5/15 aircraft cable on a straight pull & it's only a 8k winch but the cable is rated @9800lb min breaking strength) and they've NEVER gave me any problems, AT ALL. And that stalled the motor!
mike, that is why I came up with option 2. I very much would expect that pin to bend.
The pin down at the wedge end isn't under any pressure during splitting. The back of the wedge is flat, and the gullet (?) of the clevis end is flat and square (fillets machined square too). The hole is placed so that the pin is only lifting the wedge back up.
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The pin at the top end is a 1-1/4" pin and bugger all room between plates and eyelit. A little, in case I ever go with a bigger ram. This rams bore is only 85mm internal so it's not going to be crazy. But it's going to be fast! If I set the relief valve to 3000psi then it's just shy of 12 ton.
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Ive had my ram down at the hydraulic shop for a week waiting on seals, I figured I may as well while I've got it apart but nothing got done there due to parts of the country in lockdown so I went and picked it up and will circle back to that.
Parted the excess end off the rod, parted the base off the cylinder. Turned a new end cap, and welded it on, it was all pretty clean so did it in 3 passes with the tig.
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The friend who did all the plasma cutting keeps any decent dropouts in 20-50mm plate for me for this sort of stuff. I rough cut it with the torch then machine into shape. All tedious stuff and hard on the mill
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/47173/20210916_204431.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1631828717)
Stretched it all out, welded on the bracket then cut the excess beam off with the torch then tidied up and welded on the cap/stiffiner.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/47173/20210916_221720.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1631828416)
And the splitting mechanism is pretty much finished. Just a few stiffiners to add up each side of the beam, and feet to the legs. Ill have to pull the ram apart and add ports later, hopefully I've got seals to go in by then.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/47173/20210916_233154.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1631830378)
So I can start the ramp now. If I'm still going to do it haha. I don't think I need an outfeed, it all goes into kiwifruit bins which is just as easily parked next to the table.
Not too fussed about the stowing either, some good ideas here that will be able to be utilised later, if it is too heavy to just lift.
I still haven't really got a solution I'm happy with yet, in terms of the chain conveyor. One that will handle the widest of rounds I'll ever see, right down to 8" rounds. The only way I can think of it handling the smaller is if they get laid across it, and they'll want to roll. If they went on length ways the chains would have to be 6" apart max, and then that's pretty narrow for wide rounds. I'd have to be adding pretty tall spikes to stop them rolling. I could add lengths of bar/angle between the chains, lower than the spikes and then put a slide base of some sort under it so the bars slid the small stuff up the slide.
I don't know. None of it is very elegant. Appreciate all the input and thoughts!
If you were to put cross bars spaced apart a bit more than your longest block the smaller stuff could get laid down in between the bars (more than one piece would fit) the larger pieces could fit in between the cross pieces but sitting on the flat.
Yeah I'm thinking along those lines too. Would mean I'd need a slide for the small stuff to slide along when pushed by the bars though. All extra material.
Here's a curve ball ???
I plumbed up one of the oil motors to a spare spool on my press today, perfect RPM but don't know what the heck I'll do with a wobbling shaft. I assume it interfaces with a bearing supported shaft with a female splined that allows the wobble. And would need to be bathed in oil I guess... Frustrating
hydraulic motor - YouTube (https://youtu.be/GXQ-FRcwRtc)
Actually I've got a box sitting there of 50lbs of stainless flat bar pieces. 1/4 thick by maybe 4"x30". Could make up a slide out of that.
Sheesh that oil motor is a ballsup huh.
I'm thinking there is still a centre of axis from that output. Is it worth me pulling it apart and working out offset.. I could turn a shaft with the same offset in the 4 jaw chuck then weld to it. Doesn't take care of the oil bath situation though. Would need to make a housing, and make a shaft seal. DanGit
are you going to support the rod end of the ram so it doesn't want to bend?
I hadn't planned on it actually, do I need to? It wouldn't be too hard to weld a bracket to the rod end of the ram and bolt it to the beam
It looks like you are handy around machining practices so it wouldn't be hard to make a "saddle" clamp on the end of the cylinder .
Yeah I could secure it easy enough. The thought hadn't even crossed my mind. I assumed any ram was built strong enough to be supported at each of its ends without bending.
The rod looks quite sturdy if it is of good quality you would not think it would be an issue being 12 ton.
In order to fasten the gland end too it will have to be perfectly alined with the beam, if there is any difference in height from one end to the other (centre of pin to pin) or bend in the web of the beam it will change the gland end height as it extends and will cause it to bind if both ends of the cylinder are fastened.
One advantage of a sloppy fit I guess.
I'll give it a go without fixing first. Will get a run before going to sandblaster.
The oil motor is a no go, the case drain port is from outside what I've got here so it's made to have a housing, I'd be looking at fabricating one with a shaft bearing and seal and I sure can't be stuffed with that.
I've got a spare gear pump there I guess there's no reason that can't run as a motor.
If those are bobcat wheel motors theyre a mint. Mine are wobbleshaft with case drain.
The rod will be fine
I'm sure they're great when they're mounted to their output device. Unfortunately what you're looking at there is all I've got. Not much use to me as it is.
The wooble end could be turned and keyed or have a lovejoy rollpinned on.
The case drain port can be tapped for NPT drain or plugged and tapped elsewhere for better location. Make it work.
That cylinder looks rather small bore wise. It will be fast.
Quote from: JoshNZ on September 16, 2021, 08:18:16 PM
Actually I've got a box sitting there of 50lbs of stainless flat bar pieces. 1/4 thick by maybe 4"x30". Could make up a slide out of that.
:o
Quote from: mike_belben on September 17, 2021, 06:48:17 AM
The wooble end could be turned and keyed or have a lovejoy rollpinned on.
The case drain port can be tapped for NPT drain or plugged and tapped elsewhere for better location. Make it work.
The trouble is oil leaks past that drive link (intentionally so) so that both ends of the drive link are lubricated (the drive link being that wobbling shaft). The case drain picks up from the outboard side of the motor. So I could couple to the end of that drive link with a universal joint but I would then have to build a case around that coupling. Then I'd have to seal between the case I'd made and the shaft, which means I'd need to support it with bearings too.
I could just couple to that shaft and grease manually but it would forever drip oil.
I'd love to make something work because it is the perfect RPM and more torque than I'll ever need but I think it's a deep deep rabbit hole lol.
ahh.. thats pretty interesting. id guess they are skid steer based but then that means the chain case box is filling with hydraulic oil over time? i dunno.
Wrong motor for sure. If it's speed is right you would need to figure the motor displacement to order one that is sealed.
I am close..!
You guys are gonna love this, if it works. I need another few hours on it yet.
Orbital motor - YouTube (https://youtu.be/jOou6g9dsvA)
I own a TSC, made in USA 3 pt hitch wood splitter which is no longer sold by them. it's made in Colorado and very well built. I sent the OP links to where I have it advertised with pics to see the design. The cylinder is 4" x 24" and has a two sided clevis on the held end. I've never seen anything it wont split. It pivots from horizontal easily thus allowing big log sections to be rolled into place w/o lifting them. I took it into the woods and split onto a trailer with the splitter staying on my tractor as I split. It might not be fast enough for larger volume firewood sellers but easily would handle a smaller operation or bulk users needs. makes sense to avoid yet another small engine to maintain when many own tractors who burn wood. The prices on buying one have more than doubled in recent years.
This splitter requires either front or rear remotes, not PTO! Given that it's free standing or hitch fastened- it works on the ground, front or back.
I've seen several home builds that use PTO driven pumps and they did pretty well .I think they used higher volume single stage pumps from like a dump truck .A tractor obviously on the PTO would have more usable power than a small engine but at some where around 540 RPM it would need the higher volume pump else it would be slow as a snail .
Yes a 540 pto pump needs to be about triple the displacement of a gasser to work well.
Josh you made a faceplate to block the drainage and turned the wobble shaft splines off to a straight shaft right?
Not quite that simple as even turning the splines of that shaft off it would still orbit at one end and not rotate on an axis. Would make sealing against it impossible.
I basically used a faceplate off one of the other motors and flipped it around, and machined journals to hold tapered roller bearings. Then took the geroler bit with splines from the same donor motor and turned it to fit on a shaft which I welded it to. That's what you're seeing on the output there.
I'll post a bunch of pics if it works. I still need to add a sleeve to the outside to hold the outboard roller bearing and shaft seal, but after that it should be the real deal, fully lubricated and sealed like the original unit. Only with a reduced torque due to the weld in the shaft. I'll tap into the case drain galleries further down in the case and block them at the face where it mates.
I can't remember what Ive said about the PTO but, it seems absurd that pumps and gearboxes are all rated for 540rpm, who splits wood with their tractor sitting there near wide open throttle?
I figure 1200rpm is heaps which is only about 300rpm on the PTO. I found a slasher gearbox pretty cheap and it's a 2.8:1 ratio so that gets me to 840 rpm. From there I've either got an 85cc pump I'm looking at which would be ~71L/min or 19gpm. Or I could pick up one of those hydraulic pump gearboxes that steps up by about 3.5 and runs a normal group two or group three pump, I'd get close to 3000 rpm that way. Not sure how the math works out for the first gearbox if I do that. I guess if it's rated to 50hp and it's a 45hp tractor doing 1200rpm, I can't wreck it can I
My other thought was, these geroler motors are 85cc too :D.
I don't see why I couldn't drive the spline of the third motor, they're rated for the pressure, rpm, and flow that I'll be after. Anyone heard of using a gerotor/geroler type motor as a pump?
yes. interstate boom mowers will run the same unit as a pump and a motor. 1:1 flexible driveshaft is basically what it amounts to. the fluid is the driveshaft and it just runs pipes through the actual mower head housing for cooling. i think the one i have is an interstater. i couldnt get the pump with it but it had the same tag as the motor on it.
honda oil pumps are geroter and theyll spin like 11k rpm.
Quote from: JoshNZ on September 18, 2021, 02:53:25 PMI figure 1200rpm is heaps which is only about 300rpm on the PTO. I found a slasher gearbox pretty cheap and it's a 2.8:1 ratio so that gets me to 840 rpm. From there I've either got an 85cc pump I'm looking at which would be ~71L/min or 19gpm.
It should be plenty fast, an on line calculator says around a 5.2 cycle time but wondering if you will be low on power at that engine speed (I'm thinking you will be in the 40 hp range required). That is were a two stage pump would be nice.
There is a formula for engines part way down this page. Make sure you are not using a electric motor chart or formula.
https://www.hydraulicspneumatics.com/technologies/hydraulic-pumps-motors/article/21122383/hydraulic-power-units (https://www.hydraulicspneumatics.com/technologies/hydraulic-pumps-motors/article/21122383/hydraulic-power-units)
I wanted to stay away from a two stage pump. I'll go up in ram size or just run it on the big 80horse tractor when we're doing crap stuff lol.
Here we go, I'm out of the rabbit hole :D.
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That's the face plate of the donor motor. A bore in the back for the cup race, and the cone race is pressed onto the shaft.
The sleeve presses into that recess and has the bore for the cup race of outboard bearing, and lip seal.
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Other side with bearing and shaft in place.
This is the shaft I've made up from the splined rotor bit in the donor motor. I cut the points of the star off with a zip wheel to lessen the amount of hardened stuff the lathe had to get through
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/47173/20210918_200134.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1632172111)
Turned again and machined to its final spec. The weld V is inside the bearing journal so supported both sides. Only torsion to worry about.
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(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/47173/20210921_013147.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1632172119)
Everything was going too well so, as I was making the pass for the OD of the retaining thread I let the lathe steam right over the outboard journal... I could have cried at this point. Then decided to suck it up and restore with weld and carry on.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/47173/20210920_224020.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1632172123)
And that is how you waste two evenings on a marginally pointless adventure down a rabbit hole.
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I'll turn some grooves for O rings between the parts and tap the bearing housing to secure the pressed sleeve. And I'll get some longer bolts to secure the output housing, they can double as studs to mount the unit.
I'll key the shaft, seat the shaft seal properly and finally I can move on. Ready to have a sprocket mounted and swung on with full roller bearing support...!
hydraulic motor finished - YouTube (https://youtu.be/wmrFtPv5UQ4)
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I'll get stuck into the ramp next. I've settled on a frame with hardwood guides for the chains, and my stainless flat bar sections stitched together to make a slide between the chains. I'll weld rods between the chains and maybe points to each end of the rod, haven't quite figured that bit out yet. The spool I've got for it is double acting so figure I could set it to run backwards and work as an outfeed as well, if it ever wants to be used that way.
Beatiful job on your overhung load adapter there.
Thanks Mike.. and still I don't even know if I'll use it :embarassed:...
This is where it's at now. I just put quick couplers on the ends of the hoses and plugged into remotes. Pretty awesome the retract being that quick.
splitter - YouTube (https://youtu.be/imQqLBvSJKU)
Thats a dandy josh
that's beautiful!
What better way to test a new machine for its resilience to abuse than...
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/47173/20211003_111640_capture.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1633236212)
Running it :D..
First pile of wood fell victim to the machine this morning. Nothing it didn't get through, but nothing surprising about that. The wedge is sharper than any other I've used before, and still has the flared shoulders, I'm really happy with it.
I'd pretty well resigned to doing away with the chain loader but after our little session this morning, I'll be straight back into it. It's gotta happen!
I had my partner on the lever there and me loading her, I feel like I'm cluttering her any time I lift something up. A hydraulic platform would be handy but I think the loader is just gonna be the bee's knees.. qued up rings, out of the way, ready at the pull of a lever.
Really nice work. The thing to do next is convert to foot operation with auto up.
Looks great. Nice work!
It seems it came out good .With a beam that size I doubt you could get enough power on it to bend it especially with that
"boxed " section .
You mean with the stiffiners added into the column? I agree anyway, I haven't done the numbers but my gut feeling is a 12ton ram can't put it anywhere close to its yeild. I doubt a 20ton ram could either.
It sure feels rigid when the big knots let go, have had pieces exploded apart and fly off both sides of the table, but still the mechanism feels very inelastic.
You've got enough of a "knife " edge ahead of the wedge it should go through about anything even being 12 ton .
Look at the Eastonmade Elevator. I had the 24' and it was powered by a small honda(6hp) that ran at fast idle. Small coupled pump with a hydro motor at the top that pulls the chain drive conveyor. 3 way control valve with detents for stop-fwd-rev.
You could pull the fluid from the splitter and use the valve & hydro motor to pull your chain.
That's essentially what I had planned to do, but have two chains on the outside of flights rather than one in the centre. I think if you put something heavy on it or something got hung up somehow it would damage itself quickly like that
The center chain design lets the flights move a long way before they bend. The hydraulic detent can kick out when relief pressure is surpassed and lastly they had a shear pin in the sprocket driving(pulling) the chain. The pulling(top mount) rather than pushing is important I think. I broke 1 shear pin in two years and had it stall or kick the detent occasionally. Generally if there was a issue it happened when something hung and went down to the lower sprocket.
I wouldn't be so much worried about the flight bending as torquing on the chain and bending links or rollers, damaging the chain. I don't imagine it will be so easy to replace.
That is a good idea having a shear pin anyway I'll try and encorporate that.
Quote from: JoshNZ on October 05, 2021, 10:20:53 PM
I wouldn't be so much worried about the flight bending as torquing on the chain and bending links or rollers, damaging the chain. I don't imagine it will be so easy to replace.
That is a good idea having a shear pin anyway I'll try and encorporate that.
Nothing to worry about with '78' chain, one strand down the middle. We never bothered with shear pins. Hyd. relief adjustment on hyd. conveyer and the other is belt drive that would slip in a jam. Also need flared 'side boards' so wood will spill rather jam like on boxed sides. Drive sprocket always on top pulling load. I don't do the nice work Josh does but through trial and error have figured what works.
my conveyor is a 12 V gear reduced tarp motor and has a 50 amp auto-resettable breaker, so if it jams the current kicks the breaker off temporarily.