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Author Topic: Wood splitter design  (Read 4235 times)

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Offline JoshNZ

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Re: Wood splitter design
« Reply #120 on: September 18, 2021, 05:46:02 AM »
I am close..!

You guys are gonna love this, if it works. I need another few hours on it yet.


Offline kantuckid

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Re: Wood splitter design
« Reply #121 on: September 18, 2021, 09:11:24 AM »
I own a TSC, made in USA 3 pt hitch wood splitter which is no longer sold by them. it's made in Colorado and very well built. I sent the OP links to where I have it advertised with pics to see the design. The cylinder is 4" x 24" and has a two sided clevis on the held end. I've never seen anything it wont split. It pivots from horizontal easily thus allowing big log sections to be rolled into place w/o lifting them. I took it into the woods and split onto a trailer with the splitter staying on my tractor as I split. It might not be fast enough for larger volume firewood sellers but easily would handle a smaller operation or bulk users needs. makes sense to avoid yet another small engine to maintain when many own tractors who burn wood.  The prices on buying one have more than doubled in recent years.
This splitter requires either front or rear remotes, not PTO! Given that it's free standing or hitch fastened- it works on the ground, front or back. 
Kan=Kansas;tuck=Kentucky;kid=what I'm not

Offline Al_Smith

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Re: Wood splitter design
« Reply #122 on: September 18, 2021, 01:08:12 PM »
I've seen several home builds that use PTO driven pumps and they did pretty well .I think they used higher volume single stage pumps from like a dump truck .A tractor obviously on the PTO would have more usable power than a small engine but at some where around 540 RPM it would need the higher volume pump else it would be slow as a snail .

Offline mike_belben

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Re: Wood splitter design
« Reply #123 on: September 18, 2021, 02:22:17 PM »
Yes a 540 pto pump needs to be about triple the displacement of a gasser to work well.  


Josh you made a faceplate to block the drainage and turned the wobble shaft splines off to a straight shaft right?
Isaiah 63:10

Offline JoshNZ

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Re: Wood splitter design
« Reply #124 on: September 18, 2021, 02:53:25 PM »
Not quite that simple as even turning the splines of that shaft off it would still orbit at one end and not rotate on an axis. Would make sealing against it impossible.

I basically used a faceplate off one of the other motors and flipped it around, and machined journals to hold tapered roller bearings. Then took the geroler bit with splines from the same donor motor and turned it to fit on a shaft which I welded it to. That's what you're seeing on the output there.

I'll post a bunch of pics if it works. I still need to add a sleeve to the outside to hold the outboard roller bearing and shaft seal, but after that it should be the real deal, fully lubricated and sealed like the original unit. Only with a reduced torque due to the weld in the shaft. I'll tap into the case drain galleries further down in the case and block them at the face where it mates.

I can't remember what Ive said about the PTO but, it seems absurd that pumps and gearboxes are all rated for 540rpm, who splits wood with their tractor sitting there near wide open throttle?

I figure 1200rpm is heaps which is only about 300rpm on the PTO. I found a slasher gearbox pretty cheap and it's a 2.8:1 ratio so that gets me to 840 rpm. From there I've either got an 85cc pump I'm looking at which would be ~71L/min or 19gpm. Or I could pick up one of those hydraulic pump gearboxes that steps up by about 3.5 and runs a normal group two or group three pump, I'd get close to 3000 rpm that way. Not sure how the math works out for the first gearbox if I do that. I guess if it's rated to 50hp and it's a 45hp tractor doing 1200rpm, I can't wreck it can I

Offline JoshNZ

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Re: Wood splitter design
« Reply #125 on: September 18, 2021, 03:41:17 PM »
My other thought was, these geroler motors are 85cc too :D.

I don't see why I couldn't drive the spline of the third motor, they're rated for the pressure, rpm, and flow that I'll be after. Anyone heard of using a gerotor/geroler type motor as a pump?

Offline mike_belben

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Re: Wood splitter design
« Reply #126 on: September 18, 2021, 05:04:09 PM »
yes. interstate boom mowers will run the same unit as a pump and a motor.  1:1 flexible driveshaft is basically what it amounts to.  the fluid is the driveshaft and it just runs pipes through the actual mower head housing for cooling.   i think the one i have is an interstater.  i couldnt get the pump with it but it had the same tag as the motor on it.

honda oil pumps are geroter and theyll spin like 11k rpm. 
Isaiah 63:10

Offline Hilltop366

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Re: Wood splitter design
« Reply #127 on: September 18, 2021, 05:23:24 PM »
I figure 1200rpm is heaps which is only about 300rpm on the PTO. I found a slasher gearbox pretty cheap and it's a 2.8:1 ratio so that gets me to 840 rpm. From there I've either got an 85cc pump I'm looking at which would be ~71L/min or 19gpm.


It should be plenty fast, an on line calculator says around a 5.2 cycle time but wondering if you will be low on power at that engine speed (I'm thinking you will be in the 40 hp range required). That is were a two stage pump would be nice.

There is a formula for engines part way down this page. Make sure you are not using a electric motor chart or formula.

https://www.hydraulicspneumatics.com/technologies/hydraulic-pumps-motors/article/21122383/hydraulic-power-units

Offline JoshNZ

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Re: Wood splitter design
« Reply #128 on: September 20, 2021, 05:40:24 PM »
I wanted to stay away from a two stage pump. I'll go up in ram size or just run it on the big 80horse tractor when we're doing crap stuff lol.

Here we go, I'm out of the rabbit hole  :D.



 

That's the face plate of the donor motor. A bore in the back for the cup race, and the cone race is pressed onto the shaft.
The sleeve presses into that recess and has the bore for the cup race of outboard bearing, and lip seal.







 
Other side with bearing and shaft in place.

This is the shaft I've made up from the splined rotor bit in the donor motor. I cut the points of the star off with a zip wheel to lessen the amount of hardened stuff the lathe had to get through



 

Turned again and machined to its final spec. The weld V is inside the bearing journal so supported both sides. Only torsion to worry about.



 

 



Everything was going too well so, as I was making the pass for the OD of the retaining thread I let the lathe steam right over the outboard journal... I could have cried at this point. Then decided to suck it up and restore with weld and carry on.



 

And that is how you waste two evenings on a marginally pointless adventure down a rabbit hole.



 

I'll turn some grooves for O rings between the parts and tap the bearing housing to secure the pressed sleeve. And I'll get some longer bolts to secure the output housing, they can double as studs to mount the unit.

I'll key the shaft, seat the shaft seal properly and finally I can move on. Ready to have a sprocket mounted and swung on with full roller bearing support...!




 

I'll get stuck into the ramp next. I've settled on a frame with hardwood guides for the chains, and my stainless flat bar sections stitched together to make a slide between the chains. I'll weld rods between the chains and maybe points to each end of the rod, haven't quite figured that bit out yet. The spool I've got for it is double acting so figure I could set it to run backwards and work as an outfeed as well, if it ever wants to be used that way.


Offline mike_belben

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Re: Wood splitter design
« Reply #129 on: September 21, 2021, 07:35:45 AM »
Beatiful job on your overhung load adapter there. 
Isaiah 63:10

Offline JoshNZ

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Re: Wood splitter design
« Reply #130 on: October 02, 2021, 07:32:39 AM »
Thanks Mike.. and still I don't even know if I'll use it  :embarassed:...

This is where it's at now. I just put quick couplers on the ends of the hoses and plugged into remotes. Pretty awesome the retract being that quick.


Offline mike_belben

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Re: Wood splitter design
« Reply #131 on: October 02, 2021, 09:03:36 AM »
Thats a dandy josh
Isaiah 63:10

Offline Crusarius

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Re: Wood splitter design
« Reply #132 on: October 02, 2021, 09:43:56 PM »
that's beautiful!

Offline JoshNZ

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Re: Wood splitter design
« Reply #133 on: October 03, 2021, 12:47:23 AM »
What better way to test a new machine for its resilience to abuse than...





Running it  :D..

First pile of wood fell victim to the machine this morning. Nothing it didn't get through, but nothing surprising about that. The wedge is sharper than any other I've used before, and still has the flared shoulders, I'm really happy with it.

I'd pretty well resigned to doing away with the chain loader but after our little session this morning, I'll be straight back into it. It's gotta happen!

I had my partner on the lever there and me loading her, I feel like I'm cluttering her any time I lift something up. A hydraulic platform would be handy but I think the loader is just gonna be the bee's knees.. qued up rings, out of the way, ready at the pull of a lever.

Offline moodnacreek

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Re: Wood splitter design
« Reply #134 on: October 03, 2021, 08:49:10 AM »
Really nice work.  The thing to do next is convert to foot operation with auto up.

Offline jmur1

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Re: Wood splitter design
« Reply #135 on: October 04, 2021, 10:55:33 AM »
Looks great.    Nice work!
Easy does it

Offline Al_Smith

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Re: Wood splitter design
« Reply #136 on: October 04, 2021, 11:43:10 AM »
It seems it came out good .With a beam that size I doubt you could get enough power on it  to bend it especially with that 
"boxed " section .

Offline JoshNZ

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Re: Wood splitter design
« Reply #137 on: October 04, 2021, 06:16:19 PM »
You mean with the stiffiners added into the column? I agree anyway, I haven't done the numbers but my gut feeling is a 12ton ram can't put it anywhere close to its yeild. I doubt a 20ton ram could either.

It sure feels rigid when the big knots let go, have had pieces exploded apart and fly off both sides of the table, but still the mechanism feels very inelastic.

Offline Al_Smith

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Re: Wood splitter design
« Reply #138 on: October 04, 2021, 10:11:13 PM »
You've got enough of a "knife " edge ahead of the wedge it should go through about anything even being 12 ton .

Offline stavebuyer

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Re: Wood splitter design
« Reply #139 on: October 05, 2021, 11:12:09 AM »
Look at the Eastonmade Elevator. I had the 24' and it was powered by a small honda(6hp) that ran at fast idle. Small coupled pump with a hydro motor at the top that pulls the chain drive conveyor. 3 way control valve with detents for stop-fwd-rev. 

You could pull the fluid from the splitter and use the valve & hydro motor to pull your chain. 


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