Stihl chinese clone saws

[charles mann]

Has anyone heard of AND have experience, be it first or sec hand, with the Famertec Holzfforma series saws? I was doing some looking on fleabay for a bar for my MS661, not in .404 and came across the farmertec brand and some searching led me to their website. 

I did some youtubing and so far, the reviews have been good, with equal power and cutting. But looking for info from this community as well. 

I figure for $600 for an MS880/088 clone is equal to or cheaper than if i go messing with 661, burn the powerhead up and have to go in rebuild it with OEM parts and pay the saw shop for the work, just to have a warranty on the parts and labor. 

[Guydreads]

Ahhhh, here comes the debate again. If you have the money, buy the Stihl. The Farmertec saws are to tinker with ONLY pretty much. NOT production saws. The 880 clone is somewhat better built, seems to be the best of their lineup. Again, if you can get the Stihl, you'll be a LOT happier

[btulloh]

X2, or more.

There have been several in-depth discussions here on that subject. 

[charles mann]

X2, or more.

There have been several in-depth discussions here on that subject.

I thought there have been but i guess im not entering the correct words or sequence of words to pull the links up. 
@Guydreads
If i had the money, i wouldnt be looking at a clone or asking for insight from those with experience on the saw in question. 
I should have purchased the 880 instead of my 661, but hind sight is always 20/20. 
Im also not looking for long term production usage. Just something fill a gap till my mill is finished. 

[btulloh]

Check down at the bottom when viewing this topic under the Similar Topics banner. It can be quite useful and quicker than searching. The deeper you go into Similar Topics will lead to even more useful references. 

[charles mann]

Check down at the bottom when viewing this topic under the Similar Topics banner. It can be quite useful and quicker than searching. The deeper you go into Similar Topics will lead to even more useful references.

yep, saw the related topic links. thank you sir. 

[Southside]

I hear you on expenses, but you can pay now or pay now and pay then. Think of where your now money is going. 

[charles mann]

I hear you on expenses, but you can pay now or pay now and pay then. Think of where your now money is going.

Its going into tinkering on my m936a2 5tn crane, copenhagen, newports. But yes, i understand what you are saying. Im also looking at the frequency of use and instead of burning my 661 up, i can buy 3 of these clones for the price of 1 880 and if i get 3-4 yrs of svc per unit, by the time iv spent the cost for an actual 880, ill be to broken down to wanna fart with CS milling, and im hopping to have my over engineered sawmill up and going well before the first 3-4 yrs is up. Plus, a kit saw, it looks like it'll be a fun build. 
Im also finding more and more info on the web about these clone saws being pretty good and their parts are not as junky as before, yet still lacking the quality of a stihl or husq. 

[Southside]

I mean where this money would be going.  To a bunch of cheap junk, knock off producing, thiefs who flat out ignore patents that cost companies millions to develop.  Log Rite, a sponsor here, has been the victim of Chinese knock off theft, even went so far as to use Log Rite photos in their ads.  Like I said, I hear you on the $$, but personally my money won't go there.  

[charles mann]

I mean where this money would be going.  To a bunch of cheap junk, knock off producing, thiefs who flat out ignore patents that cost companies millions to develop.  Log Rite, a sponsor here, has been the victim of Chinese knock off theft, even went so far as to use Log Rite photos in their ads.  Like I said, I hear you on the $$, but personally my money won't go there.  

All that you said is very true, and i, for the majority of the time, dont but the cheap stuff when it comes to power tools or hand tools. But even some of the name brand junk is exactly that, JUNK. Lost temper bc my pressure washer would start, a splitting maul didnt solve it, but 60 rounds of pew pews made me feel better. Went and bought ANOTHER honda powered pressure washer, lasted 2 months and used 2 times and i run 100LL in all my air cooled engines, with zero problems, until that name brand, overseas made cramp, crapped out. Iv even had 2 $400 stihl weed whackers last 1-2 years before crapping out, of course out of warranty or the, at the time, only stihl dealer and repair shop tell me it was bc moisture got into a sealed power head said the moisture voided the warranty. I called BS, told him where he could stick the powerhead after i slammed it on the concrete and left it for him. I wasnt the only person that had issues with that dealer, after talking with another stihl dealer 40 miles away, other customers and even stihl themselves. 
But we have strayed off a bit.
 Im looking for personnel that have purchased, built, operated or was there during operation of the unit/s, to provide feedback, positive or negative. 
Plus that $2000+ for an 880 powerhead could be spent on hydraulics for my mill build, ok, $1400+, deducting the cost of the clone. 

[Acem]

A friend bought a smaller one. I'll ask him how he likes it. He's a small firewood cutter, not a logger.

[charles mann]

A friend bought a smaller one. I'll ask him how he likes it. He's a small firewood cutter, not a logger.

Thank you. Some input is better than no input. My saws are not logging saws per say, but i do ask a lot out of them both when im salvaging large trees. 

[Kawaliga]

Farmertec are a marketing company, Holzforma build the saws.
The ones marked Pro are a good bit better finished, they have
a Meteor Piston, and Italian made cylinder and Caber ring, and
more expensive bearings, this package is a whole lot better than
their non Pro designated saws.

Trouble is, they only have these Pro built versions in certain models,
the information is on their site to determine which saws have the
good parts.

Run plenty of oil in your mix, and let plenty of fuel through the carb.

[Spike60]

I'm sorry, but that's BS that keeps getting repeated, and trusting "information on their site" is not good advice.

Fairly well known that they have been stamping  "Italy" on some of these chinese cylinders for a while now. Just about everything in a "Meteor" box is chinese also. Not sure about the rings, but "caber" could also be similar buzz word at this point.

Deception is part of the game with the clone saws. Some of the chinese Husky parts now have "Sweden" cast in them in a further attempt to deceive us. The real stuff says "made in sweden", and has either "EM original" or the "crown H" symbol, along with the first 7 digits of the part number also cast in them.

Funny that the chinese feel the need to stamp other countries names on their counterfeit parts. They ashamed of the quality, or are they just lying to us?

[Kawaliga]

Stihl build saws in China too, don't forget that, if they cared about china ethics
they should have avoided going there, they are all in bed together, china copies
their products yet Stihl goes off to make saws in china, neither company care
about anything other than the dollar.

But as for my money, I won't send it to china if at all possible.
Nearly every cylinder and piston I have seen have had some issues,
the odd cylinder comes out with what looks like a proper finish, but
underneath that, the castings are still not right, the chinese do not care
about who gets their crap, you never save by buying a knock off from
china, its always cheaper in the long run to buy the real deal.

[esteadle]

-

[charles mann]

What does your 661 not do that you want a new saw to run?
880s run lower rpm and torque more.
That's good for running dull chains.
Do you want to run dull chains longer?
Is that your goal?

Drag a 60-72" bar/chain through hardwood, seasoned hardwood at that. 
Not sure why you would think someone would want to screw their saw up by over working it, dragging a dull chain.
Is that what would you would do to your expensive equipment? 
Im gonna say no, so why would you think someone else would? 

[DHansen]

This is just my 2¢ worth.  Your base question is about the powerhead and comparing OEM to a Chinese aftermarket chainsaw.

Twice in the last year I have bumped shoulders with guys that use these chainsaws.  One I talk to about once a month and he Mills with a copy of the Sthil 660.  He is happy with it, does what he wants and never felt like he should have bought the OEM.  The other is a Jonsered man.  He builds clones and does the Stihl copies.  He also is very Happy.  Both of these guys work on their own saws.  Repairs, adjustments and maintenance.

This really surprised me, as I am very against buying a clone saw and I know I would never own one.  Little things make a difference.  These differences can be overcome with modifications if you have the time and patience.  It just not for me.  There are quality differences.

[DHansen]

So if you are the type that understands the operation and function of an air cooled 2 stroke engine, have the time for maintenance and patience for modifications, then try one and update us on how it worked out.

But I would not recommend it if you think you are going to drop it off at a saw shop when it stalls or is hard starting.

It's not all bad, but if given the chose I'd go OEM.  Even at twice the price.  Again just my thoughts.

[firefighter ontheside]

Have you thought about buying a used 880?  You probably have.  I think I would buy a used 880 for half price of new before I bought a new clone for 1/3 of new.  I imagine that most used 880 or even 660 I see have had little use.  

[Kawaliga]

This is just my 2¢ worth.  Your base question is about the powerhead and comparing OEM to a Chinese aftermarket chainsaw.

Twice in the last year I have bumped shoulders with guys that use these chainsaws.  One I talk to about once a month and he Mills with a copy of the Sthil 661.  He is happy with it, does what he wants and never felt like he should have bought the OEM.  The other is a Jonsered man.  He builds clones and does the Stihl copies.  He also is very Happy.  Both of these guys work on their own saws.  Repairs, adjustments and maintenance.

This really surprised me, as I am very against buying a clone saw and I know I would never own one.  Little things make a difference.  These differences can be overcome with modifications if you have the time and patience.  It just not for me.  There are quality differences.

Yes, I avoid them myself, call me nuts if you want, but there is just
no comeback with these sellers, if in the event someone was seriously
injured or killed because of one of these saws blew apart, then what,
I would not feel comfortable wrapped around a large saw in a milling situation
that I did not trust.
When you understand what can go wrong, and still take the chance, then
you is looking for trouble.

[Kawaliga]

So if you are the type that understands the operation and function of an air cooled 2 stroke engine, have the time for maintenance and patience for modifications, then try one and update us on how it worked out.

But I would not recommend it if you think you are going to drop it off at a saw shop when it stalls or is hard starting.

It's not all bad, but if given the chose I'd go OEM.  Even at twice the price.  Again just my thoughts.

I can imagine going to the saw shop with one of these,
it would take prime place on the counter so everyone that comes in
would ask what it is and what happened, best advertising a saw shop
could ever want is to have one of these come in.

[Guydreads]

I'm going to reply again because I think it's an interesting thread. Fortunately, saws don't blow up into a million pieces, they just sieze or get scored up. The 880 is probably their best quality saw overall, but my personal opinion is that an OEM 661 is going to blow up very possibly less frequently than a Chinese 880. I agree with FireFighter on the used idea. Not at all a bad idea, and it would probably give you less trouble. You do YOUR research as well. Don't depend on us for all the answers. As you may have noticed, most of us don't even own one. It comes from videos like Walt's and others that our opinions come from. If you're interested in quality control, check out Tinman's saws latest video about the cylinder in his Farmertec 288. It looks awful, and that's what most of em look like. If your heart is already set on getting one, then just get it, and pay whatever consequences may or may not come. It really depends, some people swear by their Farmertec saws, others hate them. Lack of quality control is the HUGE difference between Farmertec China and Stihl China. Stihl has a name, and needs at least decent saws. Farmertec ONLY cares about money, not about reputation.

[charles mann]

IIt seems you are correct guydreads, all the replies dont own the saw im asking about, its just THEIR opinion which is not what im asking for. Im looking for actual hands on, not conjecture. You are also correct, there are mixed reviews, even on youtube, which seems to be the only source of review i can find, which is why i figured someone here might have tried one and had insight. But instead, this thread is getting opinions with no actual experience. 

I could care less for someone's opinion with no experience. 

As for "in the event of a saw blowing apart and killing or injuring someone" and the manufacturer not taking responsibility. How does one know these have a habit of blowing apart, causing injury or death? How often has this happened? Is there proof or just conjecture that this happens? 

ANY saw, name brand, knock offs, new comers to the industry, just like the brand names were when they first came out, selling saws, can cause injury or death, esp if not following safety procedure. 
Im willing to be there are more people injured or killed in motor vehicle accidents, with some of the highest QC compared to saws, and the vast majority is caused by operator error. 

[DHansen]

Your opening post, first sentence asked for first or second hand information.  Sorry if I misunderstood the information you were requesting.

If you go with the clone, I hope you will reply with how well it is working.