E Classic Fire Brick Fell Out!!!

[waorgany]

Hi just wnated to let everyone know that we have had an issue with our eClassic. Went away for a day and when came home the fire was out, (gone along time) no worries, water temp was still at 89. So I cleaned out the stove and re built the fire went back awhile later and the second fire brick in on the left had fallen out. This was about 7pm SAT so I removed the brick from the stove and called the dealer (Cell) since it was after hours, said they had never heard anything like that before but where sure it would be warranteed. So I followed up with a call this morning, they said that I was the 2nd customer today!!! That called in and said this, and that they have talked with another dealer who had new stoves arrive with loose bricks too. They told me that the other dealer talked to Central Boiler and that they told them that they were no longer going to have the fire bricks in the eclassics due to problems? I am now waiting to hear from the dealer what they and Central Boiler are going to do??? Check your bricks..more to follow.

[antos_ketcham]

The question is, what is CB going to do instead of firebrick and what does that mean for all of us who have brick?  :

[waorgany]

Here is what I found out today from my local dealer...not sure I like the sound of it but this is what they told me. CB is no longer putting bricks in the stoves, it is fine to run it like that...any new stoves sent out from Cb will NOT have bricks in them, no need to put it back and when I went to load it tonight another one on the same side near the back looks loose too. Sounds like they have a bad way of adhering the bricks to the steal and are no longer going to use them. I might have to call CB myself and get the bottom line up front. Will keep ya posted. Stay warm.

[antos_ketcham]

Here is what I found out today from my local dealer...not sure I like the sound of it but this is what they told me. CB is no longer putting bricks in the stoves, it is fine to run it like that...any new stoves sent out from Cb will NOT have bricks in them, no need to put it back and when I went to load it tonight another one on the same side near the back looks loose too. Sounds like they have a bad way of adhering the bricks to the steal and are no longer going to use them. I might have to call CB myself and get the bottom line up front. Will keep ya posted. Stay warm.

Fortunately for now all my bricks seem firmly attached. Do please update us when you get the word from CB. I guess what I want to know for certain is, if the bricks do crack or fall out if we can remove/leave them out and be fine that way. Thanks.

Pete

[waorgany]

Fortunately for now all my bricks seem firmly attached. Do please update us when you get the word from CB. I guess what I want to know for certain is, if the bricks do crack or fall out if we can remove/leave them out and be fine that way. Thanks.

Pete

Pete that is what my dealer told me, just leave it out no need to put it back in, it will be ok. But then why was it in there in the first place. I and I am sure everyone else paid X amount of extra money for those bricks, and now they are falling out, so what gives? Do we get a prorated portion of the cost of our stoves back? What about the dealers, they have paid extra for a stove with bricks??? Hmmm Haven't called CB yet on my lsit of things to get too. Will update soon.

[beenthere]

I was under the impression that bricks were placed in wood/coal burners, more for the coal than for the wood.

Sounds like they are telling the same thing. They just take up space, IMO.  ;D

[renegadecj]

I guess I wasn't aware the bricks weren't SUPPOSED to be loose.  I thought they were just laid in there at an angle, and stayed that way.  Are you talking about the fire bricks in the burner area, or the ones down in the ash area?

Definitely keep us up to date with what you find out!

[Jeff]

I don't know this, its just my guess, but I am guessing the bricks are in there simply for the additional thermal storage they provide not as a heat shield.

[waorgany]

I guess I wasn't aware the bricks weren't SUPPOSED to be loose.  I thought they were just laid in there at an angle, and stayed that way.  Are you talking about the fire bricks in the burner area, or the ones down in the ash area?

Definitely keep us up to date with what you find out!

renegade,

yeah these are the bricks inside the fire box (where the wood goes/burns) not down below in the reaction chamber.

[Hackberry]

How long had you been burning the stove before the bricks started falling out?  I fired mine on 12-4-08 and the bricks are still in place.  Mine seem very tight when I scape them.  Hackberry

[logwalker]

I would consider putting them back in with red RTV silicone. It is a high temp sealant/adhesive. There is also a specific furnace cement that will work also. The bricks serve the purpose of maintaining a higher firebox temperature and that will help with the gasification of the wood. It should help when burning wetter wood also. That boiler was designed and certified with the bricks in place and the EPA might want to know that they are recommending you leave them out. Joe

[MudBud]

I had one delivered that had fallen out during shipping.  My dealer said to use a high temp furnace cement or adhesive.  Home Cheapo or a local wood stove dealer carries it for about $5.  It did well to hold it in, however you must prep it well to insure a good adhesion.

[beenthere]

I've a question...what is behind the steel that the fire brick is adhered to?  Is it air space that gets heated, or is it water in a water jacket?

Because these OWB apparently have induced draft, I suspect the temps can get quite hot...thus the need for firebrick. But, I'm surprised a bit that it isn't water that would keep those temps down, and transfer more heat to the water.

Just curious. Something that comes to mind, as I wondered why have the fire brick in a wood burning system. I thought it was just for coal burning. But hadn't considered the induced draft that is mentioned with these outdoor boilers.  : :

[cb6048]

Hello I'm new here;

It is with no intention to offend anyone here that I say I'm glad I made the decision to go with my cl6048, I was up in the air on which one to get.  I know of at least three people that have the EClassic that said to me "why would you want that stove?" Well this right here is one, along with longer burn time, the ability to burn whatever wood I choose, and simplistic design of central boilers bread and butter stove, perfected, tried and true.

Not sure about removing that firebrick its there for a reason. I was under the impression that the EClassic ran a lot hotter firebox?

Pete

[antos_ketcham]

Hello I'm new here;

It is with no intention to offend anyone here that I say I'm glad I made the decision to go with my cl6048, I was up in the air on which one to get.  I know of at least three people that have the EClassic that said to me "why would you want that stove?" Well this right here is one, along with longer burn time, the ability to burn whatever wood I choose, and simplistic design of central boilers bread and butter stove, perfected, tried and true.

Not sure about removing that firebrick its there for a reason. I was under the impression that the EClassic ran a lot hotter firebox?

Pete

I'd have to say that having owned both a traditional CB - the 5036 - and now an E-Classic, that the E-Classic really is a better machine if for no other reason than it uses so much less wood and therefore is less work. It also goes 24hrs on a load when my 5036 would require morning and night feeding. So this issue with the brick notwithstanding, there are clear advantages to this new unit. I can still burn whatever I choose - there really is no other difference other than I can't put in really large diameter rounds - there is a little splitting involved in the wood prep. Not bad. Good luck everyone.

Pete

[Jeff]

I talked with the central boiler dealer here last night and he explained to me about the fire brick. Indeed, in the last units delivered to him, the firebrick is no longer used on the sides, but is still on the bottom. In the initial design of the e-classic it was thought that the firebrick were needed to maintain sufficient combustion temps to burn clean enough to be EPA Hydronic Heater Program qualified and meet the Phase 2 emissions levels.  Through further testing it has been shown and proven that the unit does this without the side  firebrick. So, its no longer part of the design

The reason the firebrick come loose and crack is from creosote getting behind them and expanding. If you are burning fuel that is not seasoned, you will get more creosote. The dealer says from his experience with his personal stove, is that the e-classic works best with properly seasoned wood, that is as mentioned, split.

[cb6048]

Hello I'm new here;

It is with no intention to offend anyone here that I say I'm glad I made the decision to go with my cl6048, I was up in the air on which one to get.  I know of at least three people that have the EClassic that said to me "why would you want that stove?" Well this right here is one, along with longer burn time, the ability to burn whatever wood I choose, and simplistic design of central boilers bread and butter stove, perfected, tried and true.

Not sure about removing that firebrick its there for a reason. I was under the impression that the EClassic ran a lot hotter firebox?

Pete

I'd have to say that having owned both a traditional CB - the 5036 - and now an E-Classic, that the E-Classic really is a better machine if for no other reason than it uses so much less wood and therefore is less work. It also goes 24hrs on a load when my 5036 would require morning and night feeding. So this issue with the brick notwithstanding, there are clear advantages to this new unit. I can still burn whatever I choose - there really is no other difference other than I can't put in really large diameter rounds - there is a little splitting involved in the wood prep. Not bad. Good luck everyone.

Pete

I have found with my cl6048 I have no problem going 28 hours on about 2/3s full that was on a night at 9deg day high of 18 deg. 2500 sq.ft house.......thats not to shabby!

[MudBud]

Well after 2 months of on and off running, I lost a firebrick as well on the left side in the front. the one next to it is on its way out as well.  As you stated it looks like a creosote buildup behind it as the material scraps off easily.  However seeing what a refractory setup is like in kilns, dryers and mills, this shouldn't happen. It looks like a poor setup and time to call the dealer and factory as well.  I will post once I hear what they have to say as well.

[waorgany]

Well, I have not been able to reach the CB people as of yet, I will try again Monday after the holiday. I am burning green wood and do have some creosolte build up but not too bad. I noticed after the first brick fell out several more had cracked across the center on both sides left and right. Now this morning I am missing two more bricks...another one on the left and one on the right. I agree that these should not be coming out. My stove temps (water) usually range from 175-185. I burn both split and unsplit wood. We had the stove installed at the end of OCT 08. I am pretty amazed at how well this stove performs and the heat we get to heat our house. We live in a stone house built in 1850 and it is usually very cold in winter we used to keep it around 50-55 and went through fuel oil like mad...now we keep the house at 70-75 and love it!!! But we and many others paid good money for a stove with fire bricks and now they are falling out. I think that CB should replace them all and warranty this and not just say its ok if they fall out and we are no longer shipping them with bricks everything is ok. I think that is a bunch of crap and will let them know about it once I speak to someone besides my stealership. Thanks again I will keep everyone posted. Happy New Year.

[beenthere]

waorgany
Was the CB sold as wood and coal burning? ...or just wood?

Maybe just remove all the brick (on the sides), and figure that is what your replacement stove would be if CB were to "upgrade" it, as now they apparently sell the new without brick ??  ???

Or do you want them to replace all the brick?

Jeff's post with info from the CB dealer seems to set the firebrick saga straight. Remove the sides and be glad there is then more room for more wood.  ;D ;D

[waorgany]

waorgany
Was the CB sold as wood and coal burning? ...or just wood?

Maybe just remove all the brick (on the sides), and figure that is what your replacement stove would be if CB were to "upgrade" it, as now they apparently sell the new without brick ??  ???

Or do you want them to replace all the brick?

Jeff's post with info from the CB dealer seems to set the firebrick saga straight. Remove the sides and be glad there is then more room for more wood.  ;D ;D

Yeah just for wood, with the bricks removed you will only gain about an inch or so on each side and only on the lower half so i don't think that you gain too much. It is just the principle that they market and sold it with the firebricks and now have changed their song and dance. I will know more when i talk to CB directly as the local people dont seem to concerned, they have already sold it to me and now its basically my problem. All the best.

[Jeff]

Jeff's post with info from the CB dealer seems to set the firebrick saga straight.

Maybe my new cloak of invisibility is finally working! 8)

[JJ]

my dealer allready told me to expect this (fire brick falling out).
He also  says that the bricks are only added by advisement of EPA testing and were not part of stove design.
       JJ

[Don_Papenburg]

If your "fire brick" is only an inch or so  it is tile not brick  it is intended for the floor.  Self respecting fire brick would be at least 3" wide and laidup in refactory cement .

Red silicone is only good for 800* F  not high enough for a wood fire.

[stumper]

Interesting that the "great factory warranty" does not cover this and according to my dealer never covered this.  Clearly a defect in design, material and workmanship, as evidenced by its elimination in later boilers.  Kind of makes you wonder just what the warranty will cover?