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Belt drive chainsaw for processor?

Started by mjeselskis, March 11, 2014, 06:54:15 PM

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mjeselskis

Planning to build a small scale processor this summer for my father and I to use. Not looking for anything real fast, just eliminate the manual labor involved with cutting firewood. One detail we've yet to nail down is the saw. We were planning on using a typical hydraulic motor to drive the saw, but I've heard of a few commercial small-scale processors that use a belt directly off the engine shaft. This method makes sense for a few reasons. 1) Cost: Far fewer components (Eliminates the need for a high flow hydraulic pump, hoses, motor, valves, etc), and 2) Efficiency: It will be more efficient to drive the saw directly rather than converting to hydraulic power only to convert back to a rotational force.

The question is: Has anyone done it and has pictures, results, do's and dont's? We're considering a 12v clutch off a lawnmower, or a cam action like the woodmizer uses to engage the drive belt. If we use a lawnmower clutch, I'd probably leave it on for the duration of each log to reduce the constant on/off cycle that would be involved to switch it on for every cut.

Opinions, advice welcome.
2006 WM LT28  1993 John Deere 5300
Husqvarna 562XP & 365 X-Torq

AnthonyW

I'd like to see the comments for this design as well. I had been contemplating the same thing. Perhaps chain drive as an option?

The problem I see is the distance from the chain drive sprocket to the drive/power source will change as chainsaw bar rotates through the cut.

How about using a 12V clutch from an automotive A/C Compressor?
'97 Wood-Mizer LT25 All Manual with 15HP Kohler

Hilltop366

If the saw pivots on the drive shaft or over the shaft (one inside the other) it will stay the same as the bar is lowered.

This guy made one.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rjWs6SJqvxs

Philbert

That guy on YouTube has all kinds of guarding exposures.

Belts need a travel path and guarding. They can slip and break. Hydraulic lines are easier to run, and you need a pump anyway for the splitter, right?

How about an electric saw motor?

Philbert

AnthonyW

Hilltop solved that problem. I agree with Philbert, hence my suggestion on chain drive. Either way I like the electric clutch versus the idler tensioner in the video posted. I have a drive like that on my garden tiller, not the most reliable thing.

I have been looking for the parts to start my own processor build. The 9000 RPM hydraulic motor is a tough find. I would like to run the splitter and the chainsaw at the same time, so I'm looking at two (if not three) pumps. Changing the saw to chainsaw drive would give me gearing options to adjust the cutting chain speed. Unfortunately, it also means the motor will need to be in closer proximity to the chainsaw, limiting my design layout options.
'97 Wood-Mizer LT25 All Manual with 15HP Kohler

Ianab

Look at how the 4stroke chainsaw slabbing sawmills are set up. 4Stroke engine with a pulley, belt drive to an idler shaft with whatever size pully is needed to get the rpm right. Then mount the chain sprocket on that shaft. You can then probably pivot the bar around that same shaft? The idler shaft isolates the engine from the chain vibration and you can mount as heavy a bearings as needed there without putting stress on the crank bearings. Would be much more eficient than hydraulic or 2 Stroke.

Ian
Weekend warrior, Peterson JP test pilot, Dolmar 7900 and Stihl MS310 saws and  the usual collection of power tools :)

r.man

I like the idea of belt technology, helps keep the gpms needed down and should help with cost. I believe the Jim in the video switched from hyd drive to belt, not sure why.
Life is too short or my list is too long, not sure which. Dec 2014

Hilltop366

Run some big chain with a big bite with a large drive sprocket and you can slow your shaft speed down and still get a good cutting speed. .404 harvester chain comes with the rakers @ .50, almost twice as much as my 59cc chainsaw.

I've been thinking about a clutch design that would engage/disengage when the bar is lowered/raised for my "someday" build, I had a lawn tractor electric clutch on my CSM it worked but sometimes gave me trouble, I would choose a belt tensioner over a electric clutch and buy an extra belt, there cheep.

mjeselskis

Quote from: Philbert on March 11, 2014, 08:40:20 PM
That guy on YouTube has all kinds of guarding exposures.

Belts need a travel path and guarding. They can slip and break. Hydraulic lines are easier to run, and you need a pump anyway for the splitter, right?

How about an electric saw motor?

Philbert

I agree that the hydraulic lines are easier to run and do have some benefits. As far as still having to buy a hydraulic pump for the splitter, you are correct but I would buy a much smaller pump for just the splitter than I would for the splitter and the saw.

I like the idea of an idler shaft and transitioning to chain drive. One main issue I've run into is finding bearings that are rated for the speed needed for the .404 chain.
2006 WM LT28  1993 John Deere 5300
Husqvarna 562XP & 365 X-Torq

r.man

An idler set up could be semi auto for running. Bar up idler off, as the bar is lower have the idler engage.
Life is too short or my list is too long, not sure which. Dec 2014

mjeselskis

Anyone have any great ideas how to set up the bar end? Bearings, shaft arrangement, sprocket setup, etc?    I'd love to find a picture of the Black's Creek setup or something similar.
2006 WM LT28  1993 John Deere 5300
Husqvarna 562XP & 365 X-Torq

mjeselskis

I wonder if something like this would work? I don't know what RPM a lawnmower spindle is rated for but it's meant to take the pulley on one side and I could put the bar and sprocket on the other.

http://www.surpluscenter.com/Brands/Bush-Hog/BUSHHOG-ZTR-MOWER-SPINDLE-1-3724.axd
2006 WM LT28  1993 John Deere 5300
Husqvarna 562XP & 365 X-Torq

hobo

Try a serpintine belt they are light strong and like high rpm without deflection. The clutch should be as rugged as possible as the starting load will be rather high if you gear it up to a fairly high speed. I like the lawn mower PTO clutch over the AC compressor clutch.

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