The Forestry Forum

www.stumpbranchlogging.com

Featured on the History Channel, premieres March 9th.

Mindy is adding new information daily so be sure to check back in often.
It's come a long way since we first viewed the site.
I was surprised to see a climber on a logging site, I didn't think they were doing much of that any more.

Mindy,

The site's really come a long way.....Good work  ;)  ;)

Can't wait for the show to start  ;D  ;D  ;D

Thank you, like Kevin said I am updating daily, check back often!

Mindy

Here's the latest press release on the show...

http://www.facebook.com/topic.php?uid=8429246183&topic=4994

FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE

From Deep in the Woods of the Pacific Northwest Comes an
American Original...
AX MEN
Set for Debut March 9, 2008 at 10PM ET/PT on History

New Series Explores Rough and Tumble
Logging Industry of Pacific Northwest

New York, NY, February 2008 – The first ever non-fiction series about the treacherous life of Pacific Northwest timber cutters, AX MEN, premieres Sunday, March 9 at 10pm ET/PT on History. From History and Original Productions, the same team responsible for the mega hit, Ice Road Truckers, this series looks at the legacy that the pioneers of our country laid for the present and future generations of loggers.

Deep in the woods of the Pacific Northwest, rugged men make their living doing one of the most dangerous jobs in history... Logging. Their mission: to retrieve timber perched on mountainsides too steep to access with machines. But this is no easy task.

For more than a hundred years, larger than life characters, many of whom are members of logging families that go back to the time when the West was being settled – have spent their days among towering trees and powerful machines and their nights in outposts far from the comforts of civilization. Ax Men will tell remarkable stories detailing the history of the logging industry, showing how technology has transformed life for today's logger, while the struggle of man versus nature stays the same.

Over the course of thirteen episodes, Ax Men follows four logging crews through a season in the remote forests of northwest Oregon. Plagued by mechanical failures, relentless weather-including a hurricane that ripped through the area- and violent and unpredictable terrain, these brave men risk their lives retrieving the very timber we depend upon to build our country. Snapped cables, runaway logs and treacherous machinery are among the many dangers that threaten the lives and safety everyday. Anything and everything can go wrong on these sites and the price of even the simplest mistake can mean death.

The four crews of Ax Men:
• Pihl Logging – Pihl Logging has been the lifeblood of Vernonia, Oregon for almost 25 years. Almost everyone in town - all 2,300 of them - knows someone who relies on company owner Mike Pihl to keep their family fed. Pihl Logging is comprised of a group of men who like to trade jibes with each other almost as much as they like to cut timber. Mike's son-in-law Kelly is being groomed to take over the business one day, but the real heart of the operation is 30-year veteran timber cutter Dwayne Dethlefs. Rounding out the crew is Dwayne's son Dustin, greenhorn Cody Davis, site boss Todd Cutright, and a host of other colorful characters.

• J.M. Browning Logging – Operating out of Astoria, Oregon, no-nonsense, all-business Jay Browning started his company from the ground up. Logging is one of the most dangerous jobs on the planet, and Jay Browning knows it. He lost his hand in a logging accident and now wears a prosthetic, but prides himself on not accepting any of the workers comp checks that followed the ordeal. Taking handouts isn't Jay Browning's style. J.M. Browning has the most powerful equipment, the most skilled workers and secures the biggest jobs in town. Jay is idolized by his employees, including son Jesse. Jesse's been sweating away in the woods for seven years in hopes that he will earn the right to take over his father's business one day.

• Stump Branch Logging - 32-year old company owner Melvin Lardy eats, sleeps and breathes logging. He's been in the business for more than a decade, but recently landed a monstrous job that could be his big break - if it doesn't break him in the process. Melvin's equipment is the logger's beginner set - a collection of rusted hunks of metal that stop at a moment's notice and shut down production without warning. Melvin has always succeeded where others have failed, though, and he's hoping his luck will hold out on this job. Part of his success depends on greenhorn Michael, who's been on the job only one month. Michael is working alongside his childhood buddies at Stump Branch, but lifelong friendship won't get him anywhere when it comes to learning the logging business. Michael is catching on quickly, but this business doesn't cut anyone a break.

• Gustafson Logging - Darrell Holthusen is the Superman of logging. By day, he oversees multiple job sites for one of the biggest companies in Astoria, Oregon. By night, Darrell coaches pee-wee football, counsels underprivileged youth, and is a devoted family man. Darrell's definition of a successful job is one that allows his men to return to their families each night unharmed. Gustafson Logging's newest job, aptly named "The Challenge," is one of the steepest and most inaccessible jobs they have ever attempted. To help him get the job done, Darrell is relying on Robby Motsinger, his yet-unproven crew chief, who must step up if he's going to earn the respect of Darrell and the other men of Gustafson Logging.

History.com will supplement Ax Men with a comprehensive minisite featuring more than 50 shortform pieces detailing the tools of the trade, where the lumber goes, the intricacy of the hand signals that loggers use and their origins; a 3-D interactive tour of the logging areas in Ax Men; a detailed history of logging; video and text bios of the loggers; a log burling game; the science of wood; a photo gallery; a plant a tree widget; and an episode guide with show descriptions and tune in info.
Ax Men is produced by Original Productions. Executive producers for Original Productions are Thom Beers and Philip Segal. Executive producers for History are David McKillop and Dolores Gavin.
History is a leading cable television network featuring compelling original, non-fiction specials and series that bring history to life in a powerful and entertaining manner across multiple platforms. The network provides an inviting place where people experience history in new and exciting ways enabling them to connect their lives today to the great lives and events of the past that provide a blueprint for the future. History has earned four Peabody Awards, three Primetime Emmy® Awards, ten News & Documentary Emmy® Awards and received the prestigious Governor's Award from the Academy of Television Arts & Sciences for the network's Save Our History® campaign dedicated to historic preservation and history education. History reaches more than 95 million Nielsen subscribers. The website is located at www.History.com.

It's going to be good!  8)

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/10030/cover.JPG)

  (https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/10030/Cluster_Buck.JPG)

Oh yea...

I just watched the promotional video here:

http://www.history.com/minisites/axmen

I'll be looking for a DVD release in the future. I don't get those fancy TV channels on rabbit ears.

FYI, the guys walking down the road are Stump-Branch crew! 

The next new member has to tell those guys to wash their chaps.  ;D

If that's chain oil on them, not a good idea to put them through the laundry. Might be singing 'Light up my Life'. ;)

Quote from: SwampDonkey on February 01, 2008, 11:20:42 PM
If that's chain oil on them, not a good idea to put them through the laundry. Might be singing 'Light up my Life'. ;)

Be quiet SD.   :-X   My wife has gotten used to oil soaked clothes and gloves and just washes them for me.  ;D

Part of the wall in a laundry mat down in Sussex blew out because someone washed a set of diesel/grease soaked overalls and stuffed them in a dryer. Kaboom. Signs were put up all over the mat warning not to do it. It was luck, no one was sitting and waiting on their laundry.

Here's a man that wants to work and one who loves his job, he's a real inspiration to us all.

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/10030/inspiration.JPG)

That's awesome right there. Gotta tip your hat to that dude.

LOGDOG

Yeah, I'll say.  8)

Man that just show ya even though you are down you arent out. I know how hard it is I have a hand that barely opens my fingures dont move from a spinal cord injury a broken neck. There is always someone else out there with worse than you got it. I would like to introduce that guy to alot of lazy people around here that just has more kids so they can draw a bigger check.  8)

I see some of Gustafsons sides pretty regularly.  They log the lands next us.
Next time I see Jay Browning I will have to get his autograph :)... I suspect he will whack me up side the head.  Look for the Harley Davidson murrel painted on the side of one of his yarders, its a Harley is pulling logs.  A deer hunter"borrowed" one of his D-8's to build a road to retrieve their stuck pickup a few years ago.  They made quite a mess in the process basically they built a road and Browning had to make the road go away.  He has logged two sales on my district since I have worked here.  He does the tough ones.

this should be a great series, I can't wait. there was a series on discovery channel a couple of years ago called deadliest catch. It was about the crab fishing industry in the gulf of alaska. it's a tough way to earn a living also, but I don't think the Logging industry is any easier. I grew up in a small town in Montana called Libby;  our high school mascot was a logger. in the fall during football season at all our home games all the loggers would come to the games dressed like they just got off work, imagine some of them did. They would line the field and everytime we scored they would all start their saws and rev the engines, nothing like the roar of 20 or 30 husky's and stihl's to get the blood flowing,  gotta love small town high school football 8) 8)

Hey Till, are they reforesting those cuts?
If so, with what?

I can't speak for these guys, but I've seen the same logging in BC. They are required to replace with the same species growing on site. Every site has a pre-harvest silviculture prescription done to identify the site types before a road is built or a tree is cut. Sitka spruce, cedar were the main ones planted because the hemlock regenerated like aspen everywhere. Hard to get yellow cypress seedlings, hard to germinate. On some of the coast Islands they planted amabilis fir (silver fir) to, we didn't have Doug fir where I worked only small pockets. I don't think they planted lodgepole pine because all that was there were growing near the swamps. You talk about a hard pine, the axes bounce off that stuff. On the Charlottes there was no fir of any kind, ziltch, zip and no poplar species.

Just my 2 pennies.

Donk;
Do they leave the stumps?
I was up in northern BC several years ago and saw the clearcuts but I can't remember.

You know it's guys like that who remind me to never whine about how hard a job is.

Really looking forward to the show.

Mindy;
Is there a single page ad available that can be downloaded, printed and dropped off at the local mills and yards?

Quote from: Kevin on February 03, 2008, 08:30:36 AM
Donk;
Do they leave the stumps?
I was up in northern BC several years ago and saw the clearcuts but I can't remember.

On the coast and islands, at least, the stumps are left. On the grapple sights the brush is cleaned off because they are limbed road side, those piles of brush are burned. The fallers just do that, fall the trees on those sites. On high lead sites the trees are limbed and bucked where they fall and leaves heavy slash which is worse in the gullies, not usually a good thing. Those gullies have to be managed for potential slides. We had to pre-assess every one of those gullies. Some potential logging sites had to be canceled after thousands of $$ spent because of potential erosion troubles. On heli logged sites it's similar, they are mostly limbed and bucked where the trees fall and the brush is thick in some places. Usually done on real steep ground or sensitive areas. I think they have tried bunching the brush with chopper on some sites, but it's too expensive. I pity the tree planters in those sites. But, the spacing between trees is a lot wider than here in the east. 600-1200 stems/ha, where as here it's 1850-2500 st/ha.

Kevin,

Thats a good idea.  I'll see what I can get for you.

Thanks,
Mindy

Pretty much all of the reforestation is done with Douglas Fir, at least in Western Oregon.

Quote from: Kevin on February 03, 2008, 10:10:39 AM
Mindy;
Is there a single page ad available that can be downloaded, printed and dropped off at the local mills and yards?

Kevin had an excellent idea, I got a printable poster.  However, I am having trouble uploading, as soon as I can I will provide.

I have been thinking about those who don't have the access to the History Channel.  Maybe there is a coffee shop, restraunt or bar nearby that would let you watch Ax Men on Sunday nights.  Offer to bring your buddies, would be good for business and you could watch the show with friends and co-workers. 

Thanks,
Mindy

Will that poster fit on an 8.5 x11 sheet of paper if someone tried to copy it?

It will print well on legal sized paper 8 1/2 by 14.

Ok, let us know when you get a link established Mindy, thanks.

It's difficult to hold attention to TV in those environments and you couldn't hear it anyway. But, the only places I recall seeing a TV is at a Burger King, garages, car dealerships one being a luxurious Toyota dealership that the customers drive into the building and don't get out of the car outside the building. Not places I'm about to hang out in if I can help it. TV is one thing people get out of the house to get away from. ;)

Here's some additional video, some the same and some different.

History Channel (http://www.history.com/minisite.do?content_type=Minisite_Generic&content_type_id=57899&display_order=4&mini_id=57876)

I might be staring out the window along with Donk on the 9th.  :D

I can't tell if I have the History channel, I thought it came across A&E.
I found a History channel on my local cable and upgraded but I now think it's a Canadian station. :-\ .
I'll keep hunting.

Looking forward to this series. ;)
I keep wanting to see an E to complete the Ax.  :D
Axe seems kinda nekkid as ax. ;D
Can you gimme an E ? :D

E

Quote from: Kevin on February 04, 2008, 07:42:04 PM
I might be staring out the window along with Donk on the 9th.  :D

I can't tell if I have the History channel, I thought it came across A&E.
I found a History channel on my local cable and upgraded but I now think it's a Canadian station. :-\ .
I'll keep hunting.

I wasn't going to say anything, but I was sure it's the Canadian History Channel. Dang medaling CRTC.  >:(

A&E does have the History channel but with this Canadian content restriction enforced by CRTC it means they substitute that station with Canadian history channel. Know anyone with a 4DTV for big dish? ;D

Yeah it's spelled either way, but I to like the E. ;D

If that's true Donk I won't be watching cable much longer.

Get out the rabbit ears. ;D

I'll have to feed the rabbit high test pellets that night.  ;D

laugh_at
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/10030/cable.JPG)

Unless you have 4DTV and an 'under the radar' account with the NPS, your going to be restricted to History Television (http://www.history.ca). Not History Channel.


http://www.4dtvforum.com

Quote from: Mindy on January 31, 2008, 12:21:00 AM
www.stumpbranchlogging.com

Featured on the History Channel, premieres March 9th.

Sounds like a lot of it was filmed in our neck of the woods.

I enjoy logging stuff. Should be interesting to see what all they included.

Any questions about logging in the Pacific Northwest, methods, equipment used or Stump-Branch Logging in general? 

Each Stump-Branch crew member has a small forum under their picture.  They will answer you back, may take a few days but it will happen.  If you don't have anything to discuss now, remember this for when the show starts, you can discuss episodes with them.

www.stumpbranchlogging.com

Thanks,
Mindy

Kevin,
Reforestation is mandatory with a minimum of 250 TPA free to grow in 5 years or so... unless you have an approved alternate plan.  Species is site dependant with Doug fir the primary species, closer to the coast hemlock and cedar are used.  Hemlock can and does come back on its own as well as alder.  Spruce is not planted on industrial lands due to an insect problem that effects the tree form to the point of making them worthless.  Also there is only one mill that will process spruce in the area this show is made.

Depending on location expect to see primarily Doug fir and Alder on the sides working near Vernonia and Doug fir and hemlock towards the coast.  It will be interesting to see if they film any salvage logging from the December storm that leveled portions of NW Oregon and SW Washington... that will be scary to watch.

Two of the companies I am familiar with (Browning and Gustafson) are well financed with good equipment and I have not worked with the others... yet.  The smaller companies typically have the big guys old equipment that is sometimes third or fourth hand stuff with a bunch of hours on them.  They trade repairs and down time for lower equipment costs, its sort of a vicious cycle.  Down time means poor cash flow and very high crew turn over so when you are up and running production is much lower due to crew problems (short handed). 

The well financed companies typically whole tree yard and process on the landing for regeneration harvests.  Look for newer paint on the equipment and dangle head or stroker log processors on the landing.  Hand chasing is a sign of production not high enough to warrant tying up the capital needed for the extra load or two a day the processor will give you.

Stump-Branch looks like a typical up and comer company.  We have two companies working in my district with almost the exact equipment mix that I was able to see on their web site.  One we refer to as the "High School" loggers, the owner is in his twenties and the crew isn't any older.  Yoader and loader with lots of youthful enthusiasm, they literally set chokers on the run.  The other is a cutter that thought he could make more money logging, Yoader, Processor, Loader and his own trucks.  No chaser, he replaced him with a bunch of remote control choker bells that unbale themselves, at $3000 each.

It could be a fun show, bet I know a few folks that are on it.

Quote from: Mindy on February 04, 2008, 10:45:14 PM
Any questions about logging in the Pacific Northwest, methods, equipment used or Stump-Branch Logging in general? 

Each Stump-Branch crew member has a small forum under their picture.  They will answer you back, may take a few days but it will happen.  If you don't have anything to discuss now, remember this for when the show starts, you can discuss episodes with them.

www.stumpbranchlogging.com

Thanks,
Mindy

Should be interesting discussion. My last time through the north along Hy. 26 had one area roadside being clearcut. That crew really knew how to pick the bones of the land clean in a hurry.

I'm curious about how versatile the crews are. Whether the same workers cutting down the trees are also trained in making a plantation, or if that's delegated to an entirely different set of workers.

They log, someone else plants.  Some companies just log, some log and build roads, and a few offer full forestry services however the tree planting and precommercial thinning is done by specialized companies under contract.  Many logging outfits also have fire fighting contracts for water tenders, dozers, fallers and specialized equipment (tanks for carrying water on skidders or forwarders).

History Channel has moved the Ax Men site click on link below for direct access.  I will fix this on Stump-Branch site when traffic slows.

AX MEN (http://www.history.com/minisite.do?content_type=mini_home&mini_id=57876)

Thanks everyone,
Mindy

i get the history channel on BEV (Bell Express View)  will i see the ax men on March 9th

Quebecnewf

You can ask here
http://www.history.ca/history/faq.aspx#contactus

 :D :D

Kevin your bad.

Donk;
It only gets bad if you ask more than five times.  8)

Kevin, I guess you better take the sleeping robe and move in with someone south of the border for the rest of the winter to watch the shows eh?  I here the snow is getting eve high down in Michigan now. Might need snow shoes. ;D ;)

Snow shoes ehh more like snow trunks. Maybe he`ll be able to swim easier.

If you haven't seen this dvd, it's worth getting.

http://cgi.ebay.com/NATURAL-TIMBER-COUNTRY-Forestry-Logging-RARE-DVD_W0QQitemZ200198009610QQihZ010QQcategoryZ617QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

Local rumor has it J Browning will be on Good Morning America soon and supposedly there is a bill board in Times Square with one of Gustafsons crew on it.  Can anyone verify?

Commercials are beginning to appear on the History Channel, I have seen several today.  They are different from what we have seen in the last few weeks at www.history.com. 

Something big is coming to www.stumpbranchlogging.com, check back often, update will happen very soon.

Thanks,
Mindy

Maybe I misread something, but I think there on the History Channel website that the show will be on at 10:00 PM on Sunday. Is that true? If so, it will be hard for me to stay up that late.

I believe that the show will air at 7:00pm and 10pm Sundays on the West Coast. Check the History schedule, I saw that Ax Men episodes will air at different days and times after each episode.  I tried to find the schedule link for you, but it doesn't seem to be updated right now.  As soon as I can get a schedule I will post.

Thanks,
Mindy

More video clips...

http://www.youtube.com/HistoryChannel1

I'd like to buy this "Ax Men" show on DVD. I don't get History Channel out here in the BOON DOCKS. They even pipe us our sunshine. Gets here 3 days after the storms hit.  :D

N

Nate;
Word on the street is the DVD's from History won't be available for several months.

those episodes on dvd wont be availabel for awhile, but sure as shootin, the night they air someone will record them and toss them up on "youtube" as long as no one catches them....

and a few other out of the way places too..... Ive found several different places to catch a show i wanted on the net, the day after it aired.....

William
Central Idaho

Ax Men
Episode: 01 - Man vs. Mountain will air (all times Eastern):
Sunday, March 09
10:00 PM
Sunday, March 09
11:00 PM
Monday, March 10
03:00 AM
Tuesday, March 11
10:00 PM
Wednesday, March 12
02:00 AM
Thursday, March 13
08:00 PM
Friday, March 14
12:00 AM
Sunday, March 16
09:00 PM
Monday, March 17
01:00 AM


And Episode: 02 - Risk and Reward will air (all times Eastern):
Sunday, March 16
10:00 PM
Monday, March 17
02:00 AM
Tuesday, March 18
10:00 PM
Wednesday, March 19
02:00 AM
Thursday, March 20
11:00 PM
Friday, March 21
03:00 AM

I hate you.  :D



not really  ;D

Got lots of chances at finding a way to catch it! ;)

There are a couple of avenues.  ;)

Quote from: Furby on February 29, 2008, 10:53:40 PM
Got lots of chances at finding a way to catch it! ;)

The Woodsman walks into the Sports Bar, changes the channel from Basketball  or Hockey Game to the Ax Men on the History channel. :D
I don't who you are , dats funny right dare. ;D

Hope he has a big truck in the parking lot to carry home all the women lookin' for a real man.

I got the inside scoop, Kevin is being looked after. ;D :D

Quote from: Mooseherder on February 29, 2008, 11:04:25 PM


The Woodsman walks into the Sports Bar, changes the channel from Basketball  or Hockey Game to the Ax Men on the History channel. :D
I don't who you are , dats funny right dare. ;D

I hope he don't try it here. For one it might not go over well, and second the bar wouldn't be able to pick up the feed anyway, not in Canada. ;)

Guess I'm gonna have to tape it, I'm in bed at 8.


David

You have strict parents.  :D

Hello Everyone,

Today Melvin, along with other Ax Men, is flying out to LA.  They will all be doing interviews with various shows throughout the week.  The big one will be Jimmy Kimmel Live on Thursday March 6th.  Jimmy Kimmel airs on ABC at 12:05am.  I bet those of you in Canada can get that show!  Its a little late for me so I'll be taping.

Talk to you soon,
Mindy

All I get here is CBS and PBS from the US.

Donk;
I told her we could come down to Oregon and watch it with her family.

She replied with,  too bad you won't see it.  :D

 :) I cant wait to see this show.I dont think i can make myself stay up till 1200 at night tho.Im early to bed early to rise.EARLY BIRD GETS THE WORM  :D

Well I got a big dish in the yard, but no 4DTV digital receiver.  :-X

Melvin made it to LA.  He flew down with Jay Browning, Darrell Gustafson and Dwayne Dethless.  They all went out to dinner last night with some of the producers and camera crew sounds like they had some fun! smiley_beertoast

They may be doing some appearances today.  If they're going to be on any shows today I will post when I find out.

Talk to ya soon.
Mindy

Thanks for the update Mindy.

AX MEN: Anything Can Happen

The first-ever non-fiction series about the treacherous life of Pacific Northwest timber cutters, AX MEN, premieres Sunday, March 9 at 10pm ET/PT on History. From History and Original Productions, the same team responsible for the mega hit, Ice Road Truckers, this series looks at the legacy that the pioneers of our country laid for the present and future generations of loggers.

Deep in the woods of the Pacific Northwest, rugged men make their living doing one of the most dangerous jobs in history... Logging. Their mission: to retrieve timber perched on mountainsides too steep to access with machines. But this is no easy task.

For more than a hundred years, larger than life characters, many of whom are members of logging families that go back to the time when the West was being settled, have spent their days among towering trees and powerful machines and their nights in outposts far from the comforts of civilization. AX MEN will tell remarkable stories detailing the history of the logging industry, showing how technology has transformed life for today's logger, while the struggle of man versus nature stays the same.

Over the course of thirteen episodes, AX MEN follows four logging crews through a season in the remote forests of northwest Oregon. Plagued by mechanical failures, relentless weather--including a hurricane that ripped through the area--and violent and unpredictable terrain, these brave men risk their lives retrieving the very timber we depend on to build our country. Snapped cables, runaway logs and treacherous machinery are among the many dangers that threaten their lives and safety everyday. Anything and everything can go wrong on these sites and the price of even the simplest mistake can mean death.

http://www.history.com/minisite.do?content_type=Minisite_Generic&content_type_id=57898&display_order=1&mini_id=57876

Thanks to Eric Cox and Forestry Focus for passing this along!
_________________

Hey Everyone,

Melvin just did a radio interview for WJFK 106.7
http://www.wjfk.com/topic/play_window.php?audioType=Episode&audioId=1589209

In 1 hour Ax Men interviews will be live on Fox Business News.

Thanks,
Mindy
www.stumpbranchlogging.com

I posted earlier in the wrong thread.  :-[

You can watch it early, as in right now, if you have Comcast HD.  It's under  On Deman/HD/News/History channel

I watched the Jimmy Kimmel show.
Thought the video was funny. :D

Here they are:

http://www.youtube.com/v/Yz6xM7g7VCs

That is a funny clip.
I'm glad they made him cut a wedge.....

Thanks for posting that Furb, I was hunting for that earlier and couldn't find it.

 That was a great clip.Im ready for sunday night .

Yep, I'm looking forward to it.

I'm curious to see if this series generates any negative feedback from the "environmentalists" using their computers which came to them in cardboard boxes, sitting in their wood framed houses, condos, or apartments built on subdivision lots that were originally undeveloped forestland, all provided courtesy of numerous Ax Men.

How the pendulum swings. When I was a kid in 70s  and 80s even, loggers were very respected as a group, you were proud to strut around town after work in your logging clothes.Through the 90s  people looked at you like the returning vets from nam.  Baby killer, tree killer, enviroment wrecker ::) I never got spit on but you could feel the hate. Now it seems loggers are once again getting the respect they deserve, I wondered if i'd ever see the day and actually am surprised sierra club isn't trying to stop this show.

Well, I'm disappointed .... I searched the History Channel here in Canada, and we don't get this show ... bummer !!!  >:(

not happy here ....

John

Quote from: snowman on March 08, 2008, 10:30:51 AM
................. Now it seems loggers are once again getting the respect they deserve, I wondered if i'd ever see the day and actually am surprised sierra club isn't trying to stop this show.

Just wait and see what the Sierra Club will do with this show....I'm thinkin they can't wait to have it on the air, and to use it to point out the "ugly" side of logging, and use this show to benefit their agenda. Much like "60 minutes" will often take a subject and present it in a negative way that turns it around.  Seen it all too often.

The trouble with most news is 90 % of the reporting is negative. They will have a segment or two through their weekly broadcast about good things, not any particular subject.

I'm not so sure 60 Minutes is putting as much spin on things as the people coming to them with the story. Most of their sources of information in the news come from a former employee of a company or government or someone that has been directly impacted negatively by someone or group and they are talking in front of the camera giving their side. You get one guy giving his angle and there is someone else from the same organization that might have a different angle. Sometimes you here both sides and often times the other side has no comment, so the speculators and conspiracy theorists come out of the wood work. Depending on whose side your on, those speculations and conspiracies often get taken as truth. Thats just life.

5 hrs and 45 minutes ...were do to kick off  ;D i gotta find sumthin to do till then this is takin forever  ;D  i cant wiat i feel liek a kid at christmas time i watched the previews things that were posted i liked that guy that says" my motto is get a saw and the shut the  _ _ _ _ up "and "im cuttin the timber so dont stand up on the back and tell me how to do my job ... we need more ppl liek him around here to teach a few ppl some things  8)

Got the auto tune programmed to turn it on weekly  8) 8)

one hour...16 minutes.  8)

I'll be looking for trivia questions for the contest... ;D

41 minutes.

Hey......Where is everybody? :D ;D

Watching the show. Waiting for the contest to open.

Pulling that cable with that LongRanger took muy Huevos....

How many of yooze are writing down notes gettin' ready for da exam? :D

Dick's a whiner...


suck it up!

Kinda surprised the dude driving that tank/yarder didn't get thumped upside the head...

Recording it on the dvr, just incase I miss something...

I'm watching the encore  ;) ;D  I already learned that I'll stick to logging in N. Mi

How long is tonight's contest open. It's 10:12 and I gotta get up at 2:30am to pull a Mon. dayshift.

Don...you forgot to move your clock forward there brother! :D

What clock? The show came on at 9pm CST here. I been on Daylight Savings Time since I went to bed last night. ;D My computer says it's 10:18. The encore is already on.

Tonight's contest ends at the start of the next one next Sunday evening.

Ya we are always an hour behind them Don. But they never give us a head up on whats going on. 2 30 huh you are trying to beat the boys on tv they start at 4. ;D

Dang I was hopeing for multipal choice. On the test. ;D

Quote from: Don K on March 09, 2008, 11:19:06 PM
What clock? The show came on at 9pm CST here. I been on Daylight Savings Time since I went to bed last night. ;D My computer says it's 10:18. The encore is already on.

I forgot you live on the west side of town. ;)

That's good Jeff. It will give me a chance to catch up on the weeks I have to work midnights. I just submitted my entry so I'm off to bed. Good show, a very short hour and a long week until the next show.

Don

Is that the bad side of town? :D :D ;D

Not sure how soon they are shipping them as it doesn't say, but you can order the full season here:Link (http://store.aetv.com/html/product/index.jhtml?id=114990)

They ship in July

I'm gonna look cute in that Stump Branch Logging hoodie!   8)

I was fascinated by the show.Probaly some things was played up,but I'm more interested in the logging part,not watching men bicker to each other.The logging is not done like that around here.I've seen pictures but never seen anything on TV before.I guessed at how it was done,some right and some wrong.Now I cam understand it that much better.Looking forward to the next show.How many shows are there?I was quite impressed by the mile long skyline.Is that done alot at that lenght?

It is a great show. I was just able to get to see it after a long two days of work and managed to stay awake for the whole hour.

I too was unhappy with the editing with all those short clips with things flying all over the place. I would prefer to see more of what they actually do and less of all the conflicts and problems. If they would just show one normal pull all the way from the bottom to top and then loading on the truck. But that probably would not get good ratings.

Oh well, be happy with what we get, it's better than nothing.  8)

Hey everyone,

Its been a long, but fun, weekend.  We had the premiere in Astoria Saturday and then our local premiere last night.  Last night I had some clothing items for sale.  The Hoodys were the hot item!  So good luck on the contest. 

Melvin had to leave last night after the first showing to do some phone interviews for History.  He came back right after but I didn't ask about the interviews.

I can't believe March 9th has came and went.  I want to thank all of you who helped me.  If you are new to this thread, heres the deal.  I came here a few months ago when I started to build Melvin's website, I asked for input on the website and I got it!  As a result www.stumpbranchlogging.com came to be a very nice site because Forestry Forum members took the time to give input on the site.  So thank you all.

Talk to you soon,
Mindy

Most Skyline lengths average between 500' for smaller yarders and on up to a mile, even though a mile is not typical. I would guess most yarders average 1,000 to 2,000 feet per road. I too also thought they could of edited more of the conflict type stuff out and showed more logging.

This was the 1st episode.  There's more to come to see more of the actual operations.  I think the operator of the stuck yarder needed an attitude adjustment from the show's beginning  ;D ;D

The yarders have about 2000' to 2500' of mainline which is the maximum yarding distance unless they drop line sizes.  They will hang 5000' plus to get lift with the skyline.  The yarder will only hold about 2000' or so of skyline and make up the rest of the distance with extensions.  You will see cable strung along the truck roads where there is active logging at pretty much every location.  These are usually the extensions.

When the show 1st started I thought, why is this guy calling a yarder a yoder? Is he reading the script wrong or something, a typo? Then he explained the difference. I live in idaho not really that far from astoria area and weve always called yarders swing arm or fixed tower, never heard yoder term before.I guess it's a regional thing,see Iv'e learned something already. :)The swing arm yarder or yoder :D was good for decking your own logs when there wasn't a loader on the job and everyone used to skid log length, before these processors took over. Can't see alot of use for them now really except  they tend to be smaller rigs and change roads faster. Good for shallow strips. I agree as others have said that they have tried to interject to much drama into the show but the general public isn't as logging oriented as people in this forum so you have to expect them to spice it up a bit.Maybe theyll show the loggers on a day off at a wet T shirt contest next. :D Actually though the stress on the landing when changing roads is part of real life yarder logging, tempers flare and brush fits are common so it was pretty realistic actually.

 ;D Well id like to say I like what im seeing so far.Ive never seen this type of loging opertion before with the yader and sky line.Talk about working your butt off and only 3 month window now thats production.

I see the Pihl crew made thier yarder from a WWII Sherman tank.Is this common to make something like this?I noticed one of the crews had brand new hard hats on.

Yoader, Log loader with two drum package does not need guylines.  You can cable yard, shovel log, load trucks, pile brush or run a processor head with the same machine.

Swing Yarder, dedicated yarder with the 3 or more guylines radiating off a center gantry to allow the house to turn to land logs along side.  Works well roadside.  None of these are shown on the show but are the most common used here however.

Tower Yarder, uses up to 8 or more guylines.  Browning is using a rubber tire mount old T-Bird.  Phil has an old 071 Madill and Gustafson is using a more modern version of similar design.  I think it has a D-7 undercarriage.  The Sherman tank carriers are plagued with problems such as steering, throwing tracks, and getting stuck.  Sometimes all at once and I usually show about that time, not fun, can you say rigging fits.  There are some using more modern tank carriers with suspensions.  One guy swears his could hit 30 mph if they could find a big flat field to try it out. :o

There are also a few tong throwers around, that's a shovel/loader with a single special drum that allows tongs are a weight to be thrown up to about 300'.  They are fun to watch but stay away if the operator is just learning to use it.

New yarders like Gustafson has cost over $1,000,000 bucks and require half down and a wait of a year or more for it to be built.  Not many companies can entertain the idea of buying a new one.

Thanks tillaway, never in my life have i heard of a yoader before,just when you think you know everything! :D

Tillaway,
              I heard the other day that most yarders now aren't being built until they have at least two sold. Have you heard anything like this?


                                 Mike M.

Quote from: Mike_M on March 10, 2008, 09:04:06 PM
Tillaway,
              I heard the other day that most yarders now aren't being built until they have at least two sold. Have you heard anything like this?


                                 Mike M.

Maybe true, one of the locals wanted to buy a new one but the wait was too long (nearly two years).  He bought used and rebuilt.

i liked the first show.i just hope they don,t overdo the fighting.how big is the skyline?? i was surprized to learn they use a rope to pull the skyline.it must be one tough rope.. :o

delbert

PS:corley:i agree on the guy in the stuck yarder.if he was on a job over here somebody would give him a additude adjustment.

i have to ask one of those dumb questions..what,moves the carriage ( i think it,s called) up and down the skyline??

delbert

Theres a differnt drum with a seperate cable that pulls the carriage up the skyline, it's the skid line.As for the rope, thats a new one on me to, we always use haywire cable, its not real haywire of course just smaller cable, about one quarter inch or smaller.I'ts a real pain because it is in 100 ft lengths or so and always coming apart at the connections. When I was a kid I hooked on a jammer, it's one  big circle and is not up in the sky.Lots of running up and down the hill when the log gets stuck behind every obstruction known to man. :D

SNOWMAN:thanks for the info..i logged it here for years and it,s intresting to watch how it,s done out there,i spent some time in idaho and montana years back.i saw alot of mountains with clearcuts. but,i never got around any logging jobs.
it did seem funny to see log trucks with 40 foot long logs on them.we cut our,s from 8 to 16 feet long right in the woods.the standard log truck here is a triaxle with a pup trailer and a log loader on the back of the triaxle.

delbert

First time I have seen rope used as well.  Haywire is about a 5/16 cable, sometimes bigger depending on yarder.  It is in sections with loop and hook connections.  Layouts are the prep work to raise the skyline and start yarding.  Tail holds and lift trees are identified, hopefully before felling starts, and the needed rigging blocks, chokers, guylines, cable clamps, are packed in.  Trees are climbed and topped as required, blocks hung, lift trees are guylined, stumps notched and maybe tied back or twistered together for the tailhold then the haywire is pulled. Layouts are measured in sections wich are around 200' each so 10 sections is 2000'.  Two legging is pulling two hairwires down together so you don't drag anything up hill.  What you saw on TV is not normal operating procedure.

Wonder why I am not getting this?  I have directtv.  I see the ads for it to be on but when I tune in it is never on....    Strange.  I even checked all the times Furby listed as repeats so I could  record it and they are not there. 

Bummer.    >:(

John
Do you get the history channel on directv??

I wonder if direct T.V. broadcasts on pacific time or something.

I watched the show on DirecTv both at 9 pm and 10 pm central time. (on the History Channel which is #269 on my DirecTv)

On the old C-Band dishes we had both east and west feeds.

I enjoyed the first show and have set my recorder to capture the rest.  I have so much respect for those who make their living with saws in hand in America's forests.

Our Contest has been reset in preparation for week two. This weeks winner is announced on the contest thread on the general board.

Don't forget to watch tonight! Your chances to win start all over again. :)

Have two one-hour Ax-men shows on tonight, at 8 pm cdt is "Man vs. Mountain"
and at 9 pm cdt the showing of "Risk and Reward"  (DirecTV)

I saw the first advertisement on cable today.
It was on Spike TV advertising for the History channel.

I'm not so sure that riggin slinger should of let them film him taping up his climbing spurs. I hope OSHA wasn't watching last night! :D

I see Stump Branch is now accepting resumes. :)
Did someone quit or just keeping their eyes open for fresh blood?

There you go Furby.  You would make a great rigger. ;) :D :D :D

the rigger looked unsure about climbing up the tree.I would like to see more felling and bucking  ;)

They could be way more productive.
Poor equipment, unskilled workers costing slow downs, making the climber hoist the rigging when he should have hoisted a block and let the ground crew hoist the rigging.
A broken buckle on a twelve dollar spur strap shutting down the entire operation.
Room for improvement.

how about the domino felling?  yikes!!!

but it's sure cool to watch!

Dan,
Domino is allowed for single trees.
The reason Jay used it was because the tree he was felling was set back and it made sense to knock it down with another tree.

QuotePUSHING: When a tree has been undercut and backcut and will not fall, the faller may as a last resort "push" this tree by falling another into it.

Rope is pretty new in logging, but Oregon State Univeristy has done some studies on it and found it to work very well for guylines, drum lines on skidders, and rigging intermediate support trees. The only draw back right now is it costs about 4 times as much as cable. It has the same strength per diameter as cable, but without the weight or jaggers. I don't think the rope they used on the show was the same stuff.

I could embarrass at least half of the Marine Corps with what I call your "jaggers"!!! :-X :-X :-X  Looking into the new rope because of it.

Kevin Davis
Ruff Cutts

They should be using a spliced eye on their rope, much stronger than a knot.
A swivel wouldn't hurt either.
You could see where the rope was caught prior to it breaking, they could have two workers on the ground with raising sticks, would have saved them some time and expense.

Kevin

Using rope is not normal operating procedure, 5/16" or larger cable is.  I have never seen rope used besides that episode of the show.  I'm not sure what you would do with a raising stick. 

I trying to think if I know anyone that likes to climb and hang rigging.  I know I would not. 

The dominoe falling shows the guys a good faller. Aim is the least of it. When a tree is sitting back it takes expertise and experience to judge how far to make your backcut. To deep and it sits back on your bar, to shallow and the tree you fall into it just hangs up or the tree you set up barberchairs and you lose valuable wood.On a heavy leaner I will sometimes tap a wedge into the tree im setting up but the problem with that is finding your wedge afterwards. :D As far as unskilled workers and poor equipment goes, alot of outfits barely scrape by. Theres no money for new equipment and skilled loggers are hard to come by these days. Every kids gotta start somewhere and unless they have an in they will likely start with an outfit that needs a body, any body. As for tapeing the spurs up, thats good ole fashioned gippo stuff, gotta love it! ;D

snowman don't you use a bore cut out west?

Stonebroke

Yes I do actually but I didn't want to go into that much detail in here, Im impressed you did though.Point I wanted to make was that was a good faller. :)

I know rope isn't normal but if they were going to use it there are things that can be done to improve the process.
The sticks could be used to raise the rope over and around obstacles as it's being tensioned, a few minutes of effort can save a few hours of down time.
Rigging can be labour intensive and it helps to use your head instead of your back when ever possible.
If they worked smarter they might produce the money they need to make it a successful operation.

How does the carriage bypass the lift spar when a lift spar is required due to steep slope?

Same as chair lift?

Quote from: Kevin on March 20, 2008, 12:20:06 PM
How does the carriage bypass the lift spar when a lift spar is required due to steep slope?

I may not be following your question but the carriage never bypasses the lift tree. Thats the end of the road and generally speaking if its steep you dont need much of a lift tree if any, the tower takes care of that. Flatter ground is where you run out of lift. Generally speaking :D. There are such things as intermediate lift trees though used to get over humps. I'd draw a diagram if i was that computer savy. Amazes me what some people can do in here.

This is where I thought they would be using a lift tree, on a steep slope inaccessible to the yarder.

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/10030/lift_tree.JPG)

Yeah and on steeper continuously sloped ground with a road further down slope you use spar trees of, hopefully, deeply rooted tree species so they won't get ripped out. If the terrain isn't too challenging the lift tree system is not necessary with well placed roads with sufficient deflection to make ground clearance with a yarder. During layout the side hills are often traversed to develop a contour model of the ground to help in placement of the roads. A couple of days traverses is a lot cheaper than a road built in the wrong spot. Regular contour maps, are usually insufficient to get a good model on the local situation because the scale is so small and they are developed from satellite observations. I've seen how useless they were in terrain I worked on in Coastal BC. We had to make our own maps.

Quote from: thecfarm on March 10, 2008, 09:29:50 AM
I was fascinated by the show.Probaly some things was played up,but I'm more interested in the logging part,not watching men bicker to each other.

i would agree, I enjoy the show, but could have been less "bleeping", I am sure its a rough , dangerous job, but the way they talk to each other...... wow

Lift tree, Jack tree, Tail tree...  Lift trees and jack trees terms are often used interchangeably.  Jack trees hold up intermediate supports or jacks.  Paul H posted pictures of one on the ground once.  It is basically a blade on a pivot suspended from a block riding on a cable.  The carriage wheels are attached on the same side, sort of a one sided bracket.  The open side passes the bracket that holds up the blade.  The carriage passes this type of support.  Not a real good description but it is the same principle as a ski lift.  Keeping the skyline on the blade requires constant tension and a stationary yarder tower.  Yoaders move around too much and cable tensions vary too much to use intermediates effectively. 

Lift trees and tail trees term are often used interchangeably as well it seems.  Tail trees are simpler to rig.  A choker, block, guy-lines and maybe some cable clamps are whats needed.  In Kevin's diagram he is missing the tail tree.  In the diagram the carriage would be ineffective  in fact would probably get hung up trying to pass the jack with a turn of logs.  Hung up meaning the carriage will tend to be pulled under the jack instead of over it.

.

To basically rig a tail tree the tree is climbed and if it tall enough to hit the crew, if it is pulled over while working, is topped.  The block is hung off the eye of the choker and guy-lines are choked above the the the choker with the block.  The haywire is pulled up through the block.   The guy-lines are tensioned and tied back to stumps or trees.  The skyline is pulled through the block with the haywire and shackled to a stump (tail-hold stump), tree, dozer( tail-hold cat) or maybe something exotic like soil toggles; this is called the tail-hold.
The carriage cannot pass the tail tree however the skid line is often is pulled back past the tail tree.  The tail tree supplies extra height or "lift" on the "back end".  You may hear the term lift and a description of where it is needed. "I need more @%$# lift on the back end".  Is a pretty common statement.  Any yarder can use a tail tree, it is not dependant on constant tension and lateral stability.

Kevin,
You don't tension rope or haywire.  It merely functions as something to pull the heavy 7/8" to 1 1/8" cable out say 5000' feet and some of it up hill.  If the skyline hangs up while pulling it out, it can break.  If it hangs up they will sort of work it back and forth until it makes it pass the hangup or someone has to go down there and find and fix the problem, its the last resort.  Sometimes they just pull harder and cross their fingers the haywire doesn't break.  It is when you tension the skyline and getting that to "clear up" is the problem.  It usually requires falling the offending tree if the yarder does not have the power to force the situation or you are afraid of pulling your tail hold.

Now that we have that solved  :) I want to do a bit of pointless gripeing, it's what I do best :D Sky cars! That one outfit having skycar breakdowns was all to familiar. I"ve seen the crew go home countless times with the skycar in the back of the crummy.Now I know they are very efficient and the hooker doesn't have to pull his own slack but after you factor in initial cost, operating cost and down time i have my doubts. When I was hookin we used christy carriage. Sure you had to pull your guts out for slack, yes you had to lower the skyline and move the stop regularly but they never broke down with proper maintainance. I started falling before 1st skycar was used in my neck of the woods but after one outfit got one of those monsters everybody had to have one. I used to give the hookers grief, "when I was hookin we pulled our own slack, not like you little @#%$$@!"  :) In reality though a logger in generation before me could say the same stuff about chainsaw vs crosscut saw.OK im done gripeing now. ;D

Till;
Good description, I'd like to see a picture of that .
A jack post  is used  to maintain support for the skyline and give it additional lift mid way, I get that.

There's tension on the rope due to the drag from weight of the skyline.
Because they can't get a straight run on the rope it's catching on slash and stumps.
I suspect most of the trees have already been cut down on the path for the skyline so the trees aren't the problem but rather the slash on the ground.
You can easily see where the rope gets caught and one of the crew even mentions it on the show but they continue to load the rope regardless.

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/10030/yarding.JPG)

If they had a couple of men on the ground they could have eliminated the snags on the rope by lifting the rope over them.
I can't ID the rope but if it's 3 strand the breaking strength is about 7k lbs.
A load limit for that rope in new condition would be about 1400lbs.
Add a knot to that and you are well under a thousand pounds, with a new rope!
With the weight of the skyline over a long distance it isn't difficult to realize why a 3 strand synthetic rope would break when it gets hung up on the slash.
They would have to upgrade to a rope that's up to the task like Amsteel.

QuoteThe collective photos here are of several different units. They weigh just over 2000 lbs and are designed to pass intermediate supports. The plate of 4 photos show the insides of the carriage without the sideskirts. The model shown here had 3 functions. It could lock on the main line, lock on the yarding line, or pull slack. The clamp on the mainline was designed to fold off the line to allow the passage of shackles and intermediate supports.

http://www.vannattabros.com/iron26.html

Haywire is cheaper than amsteel in fact the I saw amsteel used in the brush for guy-lines for the first time last week.  It should be used more but the expense prevents it. 

Snowman, skycars much faster than the old christy.   The skidline is pretty much on the ground from say 250' up before the car arrives.  They don't have to wait for it to drop once the carriage stops like a slack puller or christy.  Also the turn is on its way up to the carriage while the car is on its way back to the yarder.  You don't have to wait long before the hup-ho.   the Browning crew is using presets, the empty chokers are removed from the T-bar and one guy runs around threading the chokers that were set during the down time between the cars return.  It gets tricky when the have two brush crews working opposite sides of a canyon on the same skyline corridor.  They alternate hooking up logs so each crew hooks every other turn.

The skycars are not designed to pass intermediate support jacks however a few guys have done a little tinkering.

Quoteone guy runs around threading the chokers that were set during the down time between the cars return

That was my next question.
I see some riggers standing around waiting for the carriage return.

Is the limbing done at the landing?

i am chimin back in a little late.... again, but i enjoyed the shows, brings to mind a few crews ive been around.... language and all, here in idaho county we have a court case precident about "logger language" all those expletives deleted are typical ona logging crew except the ones that are of certain religious backgrounds and they have their words too....

snowman sounds like he knows some of the saem area ive seen, though it is a pretty big area around central Idaho.  As far as logging goes I just figured it was pretty much the same no matter where you were, with the steep hillsides being about the hardest to skid on, When i was running the timbco 442 for the first time the man telling me what to do said I had to watch out cause the machine could cut 7 percent steeper than the D-8 could stop on and they did not have a yarder for that side..... a few days later an 8 inch oak broke off above the clamps and I watched it hit my cab.... darn thing rang for what seemed like hours..... man i prefer using a powersaw to fall, not as fast, but ya can tell when something is amss and rotten.....

I guess not everyone has had the same experiences with tempermental workers.... I see most of the fellas were the type that worked to hard and got to much air in their lungs too... needful a smoke so often..... my dad-in-law would have loved watching these shows, he fell for highleads and helicopters till a couple of logs rolled over him and took out his knees [not the same day, about 6 weeks apart, he was falling using a cane to get around] like i said, I thought everyone was as tough who logs....maybe you eastern folks need to work a little harder? <----thats a joke son,  I say a joke..... sawmillers and loggers all work hard for what they get and it is in the blood, sawdust  that is.

William
Central Idaho

Kevin,
The tree size usually allows all log processing to be done at the landing, so yes limbing is done there.  The exceptions are; the smaller out fits that can't afford a processor so sometimes they will have the cutters work them up in the brush, some thinnings, and trees too large to move.  For the most part look for a log processor on the landing, stroker or dangle head, or a chaser doing it by hand the old fashioned way.  With the current pulp prices here one of the crews I work with just stepped up and bought a used dangle head.  You can't make money processing tops for pulp by hand however the dangle head does make it pay.  In fact they are picking through their old slash piles searching for the stuff.   

The motorized slack pulling carriages will pass intermediate supports and work very well. Having worked under a Christy carriage in the past having a slack puller or Bowman drum car is the way to go even with the added cost. We just picked up an Acme 15 motorized carriage and Koller 501 yarder mounted on a trailer. We are thinning 20-25 year old Doug-Fir for pulp wood and chip&saw. Chip and saw wood are logs big enough to make a couple of 2x4 or 2x6 and then the leftover is chipped. Thinning with a yarder takes a little more thought and layout. Oregon State Univeristy played a part in creating a computer program called LoggerPC to help plan skidding corridors and pre-plan for lift and needed intermediate supports. I just finished laying out seven corridors. This process includes marking out 10-15 feet wide corridors to be cleared for skidding roads from the landing to the end of the unit. Terrain points are measured every 50-100 feet along with angle of the slope in percent. This data is then entered into the computer to give a model of what the corridor layout will look like before any line is stretched. Any place where lift might be a factor intermediate support trees are marked to be left in the corridor so the fallers don't level them. The corridors are layed out in a fan shape coming together at the landing and widening out at the bottom. Normal spacing at the bottom is around 150' so lateral skidding is minimized. The trees between the corridors are thinned at a 15' spacing distance and are fallen at a quarting angle towards the appropiate corridor. When I get savy enough with the computer I will post some pictures of our operation and include some before and after shots.

Quote from: Mike_M on March 22, 2008, 01:26:39 PM
Terrain points are measured every 50-100 feet along with angle of the slope in percent. This data is then entered into the computer to give a model of what the corridor layout will look like before any line is stretched.

Same idea as I'm used to. Only we did it all over the 100 acre block since we used a different logging system with roads placed for optimum deflection. We also generated our own contour maps this way for logging plans and Pre-Harvest Silviculture Prescription work. What was cut, was returned to the site, no substitutions. One exception was yellow cypress which was hard to get. Hemlock sure didn't need planting because it was growing as thick as raspberry canes after being released in those cuts. Mainly sitka, cedar, and possibly amabilis fir on the mainland coast. No fir on the Charlottes, zip. Never grew there to begin with.

We have a little bit of both Hemlock and Cedar, but leave them to grow. On occasion we will cut a cedar or two to mill with the Woodmizer. It's really amazing how much a little thinning opens things up and lets some daylight in.

Tillaway I know skycars are efficient when they work.When they are in the back of the crummy on the way to town they are very ineficient. As far as presetting, we preset on christys too.  A good hookin team was very smoothe. One man would hook up the presets while the other drug the empty chockers out of the way and toward next drag. Plus we got big muscles to impress the girls! I still say if anyone sat down and figured out cost of operating a skycar, added to cost of downtime the old christy wouldnt look so bad and neither would horses vs skidders dangit! :D Anyway I'm looking forward to tonights show and I'm sure I will find more things to complain about with modern high production logging. Don't get me started on all this mechanized snipper logging where nobody even works out of a machine anymore, no sound of chainsaws  screaming or wedges being pounded.The whole operation now sounds like a sawmill in the woods. And then theres these dang processors. How's a kid supposed to break in with a chainsaw? I just realized it's Easter and I'm still just an old grouch. :o

Well, what happened last night?

A show was on TV. :)

They all got wet. ::) :D :D :D

That's some rough ground, I respect those guys for getting in there and giving it!
When Melvins loaded truck spun out on the hill could they not put tire chains on to get up that hill?

There was no tracks behind the rear tractor axel when he "spun out".
I do not belive they were covered up by flying mud, I belive he was loaded right there and couldn't get the load moving, but that's just a guess.
You can see the tracks under the logs have a "ramp" to them at the end, just as if the wheel rolled foward in soft soil and backed up.
So my question is, why would they load him there if that is indeed what happened?

Furby, I noticed the same thing. I think they needed some excitement and staged getting stuck. Maybe he backed in there before he started to go forward. ;)

I can't see them staging that for the amount of money it's costing them not to mention time lost.
They can't afford to lose a minute.

Kevin, I understand their need to keep things rolling to make money. The tractor was driving up a hill on the dirt road, yet there were no tractor tracks under the truck behind the rear running gear where he supposedly just came from. Please explain that.

Who's to say the History Channel didn't kick in some cash for a dramatic effect? I'm sure these companies received some sort of compensation for participating in the filming.

I'll have to have another look, I didn't notice the first time around.
Could he have backed up to get a better run at it and still couldn't get traction?

As you know the "trailers" are transported to the site on the truck/tractor and lifted off and coupled up on site.
So there would be no tracks between the tractor and the rear axels of the trailer.
No if you pull forward and stop, then roll back or back up to get a running start, you would have exactly what I saw. But if you don't roll back far enough, the tire marks won't connect.
That's exactly what it looked like to me.

Furby, didn't the camera show this guy driving up the hill loaded before he got "stuck", or should I say "slipped" (wasn't that the term they used?) lost traction. He was also on the last load out before the weather got bad.








1800

The last load could have been the first load too.
This is what I thought may have happened, the truck gets loaded and leaves on the red and backs up on the blue only to find out there's still no traction.

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/10030/stumpbranch.JPG)

We better ask Mindy to get the scoop from Melvin,  eh ?

I just looked at it again frame by frame.
I guess it is possible the dirt from the drive axels has covered the tracks.
Really hard to tell for sure.

Kevin, that still don't explain the LACK of tracks about where the blue and red lines meet.

Radar, the term Jeff (the driver) used was "spun out".
Yes, it showed some movment, but there had been some movement anyways based on the tracks.
Besides, the way the editing is done, some shots are reused and or out of order sometimes. ;)

I've been waiting for the folks from Stump Branch to join in, but there hasn't been much from them. :-\

The truck getting stuck is well... normal.  In fact pushing or pulling trucks is expected and planned for many of the roads used here.  It was over dramatized to make good TV.  Tire chains as suggested by Kevin are not used, takes too long top put them on, much faster to use the shovel to give them a little push just be careful not to push the load forward off the bunks or into the headache rack.  The trucks all have a shackle for pulling on the front bumper.  The worst I have seen for pulling is a using a Cat 528 and a D7 dozer combined to pull trucks.  The skidder alone could not pull hard enough, of course the grade was near 35%.  :o

We used to pull loaded trucks on icy roads with a skidder and winch. Loaded with bagged potatoes. Also, done that pulling trucks in potato fields during harvest.  :D

Quote from: Furby on March 25, 2008, 11:13:52 PM
I just looked at it again frame by frame.
I guess it is possible the dirt from the drive axels has covered the tracks.
Really hard to tell for sure.

Kevin, that still don't explain the LACK of tracks about where the blue and red lines meet.

Radar, the term Jeff (the driver) used was "spun out".
Yes, it showed some movment, but there had been some movement anyways based on the tracks.
Besides, the way the editing is done, some shots are reused and or out of order sometimes. ;)

I've been waiting for the folks from Stump Branch to join in, but there hasn't been much from them. :-\

We have our safety meeting this morning.  Usually Jeff is there, I will ask him about this scene to find out what happened and get back to you.

To answer some unanswered questions:  None of the logging companies were paid to do any of this.  Also, each company had an entire film crew with them everyday for weeks, I believe it to be 13 weeks total. 

I can also tell you that none of this is staged.  Well I take that back little things like Mike Pihl throwing the ax in the beginning of the show is setup, but I think its pretty cool what they did with that, great graphics.  As far as Jeff getting stuck or spun out that really did happen.  Like Kevin said that would be a waste of time and money to stage that.  Not to mention there would be a risk of unneccesary equipment damage and personel injury.

As far as the footage, History decides what is going to be shown and when.  The logging companies see it when you do.

More than likely Melvin will not be in here for a while.  The storm that they keep talking about has set everyone out here behind.  Entire roads are gone and many companies can't get to equipment or logs.  After they air the storm footage I will post photos on the Stump-Branch site.  I couldn't believe the damage, its amazing!  Its a scramble to get things done now, especially for Stump-Branch since the company is so small.  Melvin is working 7 days a week now to try and get caught up.

Well I am off to get safe.  If there are further questions just ask, I'll do my best to answer.  Maybe I can Melvin over here for a chat in the Forestry Forum at a set time so you can ask him questions.

Thanks,
Mindy

Thanks Mindy.
All the best to Melvin and the Stump-Branch crew, sounds like they have an overwhelming task ahead of them.

I didn't notice tracks or lack thereof but I'll guarantee he wasn't loaded on that hill.What I did notice was the tire spinning thing.  I have to believe the film crew asked that guy to spin his tires. No driver is going to risk tearing his rear end out  like that as normal procedure and once your stopped on a mud hill ,you aint gonna get going again.  He could of maybe backed all the way to the bottom and got another run at it but log truck drivers arn't know for there backing skills once the trailers down :D. When I was a kid running skidder we had a hill that no truck could make about a mile from the landing. I was permanently stationed at the top to pull trucks up. We had 2 crews each putting out 20 loads a day,nice wood, big sugar pine, it kept me busy but all in all was easy money :)

I agree he was stuck, see it all the time and have seen it in the Northwest, Rockies, and South.  Just part of logging.  I didn't notice the tread but they will normally run highway tread on the drivers since most of their miles are highway.  22 tons (more or less) of load on a hill that's at least normally damp messes with traction. 

I really enjoy the series though, reminds me of running profiles and stumbling down wet moss covered slopes with a paint gun.  Too old and cantankerous to do that again.......

Where I was on the Charlottes there wasn't any problem much with getting stuck on the roads. The problem was too much rain saturating the ground and increasing the risk of slides on those roads on the steeper ground. Even the gullies were high risk of sliding where a road crossed over them. Steeper roads had water bars all the way up them, inactive roads were reclaimed/removed. The roads were crushed stone and better than most forest roads here in the east.

Another question I had was when the Gustafson crew couldn't get slack in the high line to install the second carriage why wouldn't they opt to release cable from the yarder to get the slack they needed rather than lower a log on the cable to force the line down and onto the sheaves?

My understanding of what they were saying was that the line was pulling itself down the hill.
Being as steep as it was, when they released the sky line the weight of the line kept it too tight to get the carriage on without pushing on it with the log. I guess they would have to let out a ton of line before they "might" get enough slack.
That's just my take on what I saw though.

I drive trucks and ive been off road more than once and from what I seen he found a soft spot on that steep of a grade with the loaded trailer working against him and lost traction.The time it would take and pain in the back side puting on chains not worth it,unless the other equipment is to far from you to help.Looked like to me they could not get around the truck so the only way was to try pushing on the load very carefully. ;)

Unless you have actually worked out on a logging job and been around heavy equipment trying to move around, and move logs around, you cant realize the effort it takes.  I've been behind the wheel of a log truck crawling up a hard packed county gravel road on a steep grade and all of the sudden, without warning having a spin out and be dead in your tracks.  When you spin out, you probably ain't going backwards either.  The path of least resistance for your tires has become down, not forward or backward.

We call anyone that aint running over 5 axles furniture haulers here in Michigan. Those little 80,000 lb loads going up the highway you see are nothing compared to trying to haul 160,000 out of a make shift logging road.  I can't imagine the problems incurred by those northwest logtruck drivers driving on such grades in almost perpetual rain.  There was nothing at all about that stuck scene that appeared anything more then a regular part of working in the woods. It's an everyday thing. Someplace, right now in Michigan, is a stuck log truck. I can almost guarantee.

Yeah as Jeff says, even though I've not driven logging trucks I see it all the time.

Here in the NE on most woodlots I worked on, the roads are not on top of the ground. I mean they are not built up with a crown or good ditches. They get bulldozed into the ground and no ditch except where the truck travels. So here you are traveling out through this slop in spring and fall where the forest floor to the sides of the road is above the fuel tanks and your truck travels down a stream and muck. Industrial forestry is a little different on their main haul roads, but the wood is so cheap they can afford to build good roads out there. You leave their main haul roads and you see the same mess as most woodlots often worse with stones all over the road as big as baseballs up to the size of a truck tire often half buried (oil pan scrapers). I know some truckers that won't haul on some of those roads and if the bushes start swatting the mirrors, you either better widen the road or find your own truck.

I take it Oregon timber fallers don't require certification?

Kevin
Furby is right.  Figure about 1.5 pounds per foot and maybe 1500' feet of line to the bottom of the canyon and who know how much up the other side.  You have a ton of load or more just from the line weight.  Couple that with about 2500' of skyline capacity so that yarder is down to the minimum needed wraps on the drum pretty quick.  Another point is that it does not matter if the yarder could hold 10,000' of skyline, gravity will just pull it into a pile at the bottom of the canyon anyway and not relieve the tension past the line weight hanging down.

Most of the trucks here are 80,000 GVW, some are licensed up to about 110,000 GVW.  The limiting factor is the money needed to build roads that will handle the bigger trucks.

About the fallers... nope, no such thing.

Could they not anchor the line back to the yarder to keep it from heading downhill while they put slack in it?

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/10030/yarder.JPG)

Log trucks are strange beasts.  It's amazing what they'll go through and at the same time how little it can take to bring them to a stop.  I pushed one out this winter when it got just little high centered and there wasn't enough weight on the drivers and too much on the air axles.  Didn't take much to get it under motion.  A good driver quits as soon as he spins out making it altogether easier to get them moving again.  Sometimes it's just because the tread of the drivers plugged with mud.  A little nudge with a skidder and they're off again.  I was observing a chip job a while back and to get the loaded van up a sandy hill they pushed with a 648 JD on each back corner and pulled with a JD hydroax.

i'd guess using the log to push the line down was easier and faster.

When I had my land cut,they had to push the trailer a few times.There was some gravel on the hill,but going up and down for a couple months kinda mixed it in with the woods dirt.I was in the truck once when all this went on.The forwarder was there and had no problem pushing the truck and trailer  out.The truck really could not get going for the hill.Only about 2 trailer lenghts and he was in the hill.He said he did not want to break anything.Can be spinnining one second and than it will grab and that's when things break.This was a brand new tractor and trailer.No more than 6 months old.

Pretty much what Dan said.  They will often pin it to the ground with the grapples as well.  Anchoring as Kevin has drawn it would work fine, although take longer to do.  Someone would have to find a rigging chain, which is probably in the crummy on the other side of the canyon because the one that is usually in the compartment on the yarder walked off last night with the 400 gallons of diesel, marlin spikes, wrenches, blocks, shackles, etc.

I've been following your forum for a couple of months now and appreciate what you have to say.

Ok...I gotta stick-up for the rope!

This is Darrell Holthusen of Gustafson Logging...the rope we use is 12-strand Amsteel Blue.  We started using it 3 years ago and no longer use haywire.  When strung correctly, the "4,000 ft. pull" would have worked fine.  We had a green guy string one leg of line, that was the real mistake!  I fixed it and it pulled back just fine.  The way we splice our rope is the old-fashioned Chinese Finger Splice.  I've pulled 4,000 ft. of skyline time and time again without breakage.  It's new technology for our industry and an incredible tool for production and safety.  One man can pull a 3,000 ft. leg of rope with almost no trouble at all.  The rope is not to be confused with haywire because it is actually rope, not wire.  People get themselves in trouble when they treat the rope like wire.  For example, sidewashes can burn the rope in half, saws can cut the rope and warming fires can burn the rope.  One problem with the rope is the expense.  We pay $900 for a 600 ft. length, but we believe it's money well spent.  It saves on State Comp. claims due to heavy workload because it is so light weight.

I appreciate what some of you said when you said it's a good idea to elevate the rope.  One of the positive things is you can coil 50 ft. up in your hands and you can throw the rope over a limb that can hang you down and then grab the rope on the other side and keep stringing without a lot of friction causing the rope to be hard to pull.

Welcome Dmagnum. Sure glad to have you here to tell us about it.  :)

Welcome to the Forestry forum dmagnum.  Certainly been enjoying the show. One of our admins here on the Forestry Forum, Paul Halvorson is a 3rd generation logging family from B.C. and I thoroughly enjoy it when he posts on the way you guys out there do things or I get to visit with him on the phone. Far different then our relative flatlands here in Michigan.

Hey Darrell good of you to join us.

Thank you!!  It's great to see others speaking out in support of our industry!

Thank you Darrell and Tillaway for your insights on this great show. For those of you like me that have missed some episodes, the History Channel will be broadcasting all four episodes this Sunday night starting at 6:00 central time so I plan to catch up with a four hour session.

I drive one of those 5 axle "furniture haulers" here in the flatlands of Minnesota and can assure you that I could not be paid to get stuck on purpose. I have done that too many times to do it deliberately.

This is one load of aspen I hauled to the pulp mill in February and it was about 93,000 lbs which is legal here in the winter with the 10% winter weight increases and a 5% tolerance for forest products to the mill.

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/11467/AspenLoad.jpg)

Normal maximums are 80,000 with a 5% tolerance.

dmagnum.welcome to the forum.I want to thank you for stepping up to the plate and doing a fine show that you are.
What is all that wood used for? I see some that we would send to the paper mill for pulp.Some is left tree length but some is cut into 8 foot lenghts after the saw logs are cut out.I went to a field trip with one of the Grandsons about cutting wood.Just about the first thing the logger said was,cutting trees is good.Some other adults there got educated too.It's too bad that cutting wood has got such a bum look from certain groups and people who has no idea what is going on with the forests.
Here's a good thred that will keep you busy for a few hours.

https://forestryforum.com/board/index.php/topic,13313.0.html (https://forestryforum.com/board/index.php/topic,13313.0.html)

Lots of inersting pictures and stories on how wood is cut and havested.Not many pictures out your way.

Hey Darrell;
Glad to have you on our show.  ;D
I hope you can check in and clear up any speculation on some of our comments about the show.
Knots will kill you on any rope, spliced eyes will retain 90% of the ropes strength.
The more knots you can get out of your rope the stronger it will be.
A single grip and a short piece of rope would have helped in getting that slack you needed on that carriage but the log was a neat trick, well done!
Why was the cat used for a tail hold, were there no trees available?

This rope thing is interesting. Loggers have always been know for being on cutting edge of technology and now more than ever have to be able to produce as efficiently as possible. I have been semi retired now for 2 seasons. I'm out of the big industrial logging and am now a 1 man show. Watching Ax Men makes me glad of it. As the saying goes, it was the best of times, it was the worst of times. I watch those kids on there just sarting out and wish them well. It's a great life till ya weaken! :)

I finally got em recorded and watched.  Overall I think its a great show, but some moments I could certainly do without.  Love the equipment, seeing how they get things to work, some of the unique work practices for that terrain.   The owners and how they look at the business is a crack up, the old school, best of everything, and the 30 year old guy trying to make it on duct tape and shoe string.  I'd have to blame HC for some of the less impressive moments.  Save the drama fer yer mama, if guys act like that on a jobsite, I would have to wonder why an owner would keep em around.   

I kinda expected more "big wood".  That PNW timber you always hear about is kinda rare to see on there.   Someone pointed out to me already, these are all second or third cuttings, and all the  big stuff is protected now unless its a rare occasion.  Seems everyone is walking around with a 066 or 3120 with a 40" bar,  but the trees look like they are all 20".  Maybe when your down in those valleys you dont want to walk back to the truck to change chains as often...    Then again, running big saws is fun! 

Seeing those blow downs is impressive.  I'd like to hear some of the sizes, acres of trees of # of trees or board feet that comes out of one of those areas. 

I dont understand the whole " they have 20 days to pull out a hundred million board feet" deal.   I assume the state says what gets logged,  how it gets logged, put it out to bid, but do they say you have to be done in a certain amount of time?  Whats the deal with that?  Can't these crews work year round?  Is there some wood weasel that needs to breed and they want the forest empty then?  I would think it would be more important to do a do a good clean job, that is safe for the guys, and not damage the area and roads rather than fly as fast as you can.   

A lot of the time factor is from mill's pushing production. They do it here as well. You got some mill owner staff going around brow beating the woods crews to increase production. That's not a job I care to have, going around telling the loggers how they need to increase their production and at the same time dropping the rates as they meet those targets. Where is the reward in that?

After reviewing the tape and consulting with the people that were actually there when it happened, Jeff the truck driver really was stuck and it wasn't intentional.

The more I think about using tire chains on that soft ground I'm pretty sure he would have dug in deeper.
I now see they did what was necessary, too bad Melvin had to operate the cat as I'm sure everything came to a halt while the crew waited for him to get back to the yoder.

Hey Darrell,
Welcome from me as well! 8)


So what does an average load of logs weigh?
No calulator estimates, not registered truck weight, what do the load of logs weigh?
I don't know much about the tractor and trailers used out there, so I can't subtract that weight from a total either.

Samson has splicing instructions for their class 2, 12 strand.

http://www.samsonrope.com/site_files/12S_C2_EndEnd.pdf

http://www.samsonrope.com/index.cfm?page=28

Kevin,

Hey thanks for the info on splicing.  That's the same way we do it.  Some of the easiest splicing I've done.  I know which knots you are talking about, that wasn't our rope.  Although, we did have a bad section of rope that was supposed to be flagged, it got thrown in the bunch and used for the road change, that's what broke.

Tailholds and lift were a huge problem.  There were tailholds 6,000 ft plus, but we had an access road so it's always better to use the "big yellow stump."

That job over taxed our equipment... so glad we're off of it!!  (I do like the challenge of a hard job though!!)

FYI...(other questions)

The majority of the wood on that job was pulp.  That was the best market at the time.

A load of logs weighs approximately 50,000 to 54,000 lbs.

Really enjoying the show Darrell and welcome to the forum.
Hope you stick around for a long time. ;)

Thanks Moose!!  I really appreciate the support!

History has some new video posted here...

http://www.history.com/media.do

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/10030/unloading.JPG)

OK I admit when it comes to computers im a bit challenged, I cant find the post i want to insert but someone mentioned certification for falling. First I've heard of this. Im curious to know, do you take a test? Graduate from a sKool or what? I'm also curious which states require this and what political party they are run by. Pretty sure I know the answer to second half of my question though. Seriously, you guys back east need to take back some control of your lives from big brother, I never heard of such @$^&!

Well that's what happens in an industry that can't or won't regulate themselves to reduce the human carnage, someone or some body being a workers comp group, government organization or some other association will step in and regulate the industry to prevent and reduce accidents.
I guess you could call it education.

http://www.bcforestsafe.org/content-program-fallers/fallers-06-12-01-faller_explanation.pdf

http://www2.worksafebc.com/Portals/Forestry/Home.asp

Ever heard of
U.S. Department of Labor    
Occupational Safety & Health Administration?

I think they are East, West and everything in between.

Yarding (http://www.worksafebc.com/publications/health_and_safety/by_topic/assets/pdf/cable_yarding.pdf)

Darrell;
I don't know if a Big Shot would solve some of your rope running problems but we use them in the arborist industry to set lines.
You can shoot a weight in excess of a hundred yards and pull the Amsteel with the throwline.
It would easily get over any branches in a straight line regardless of trees, any underbrush or slash.
One guy throwing, one guy attaching the rope to the throwline and one guy pulling the rope with the throwline.
A steady even pace with few or no hang ups.
It may not work for you but it might be worth considering.

There are plenty of loggers more involved with CPL,than me.I only cut on my own land so I don't have to take the classes.But I do need an intent to cut number.I get this number from the state and have to fill out a 4 page report on how much was cut and for how much.If I don't get this than I cannot sell my product.The CPL was started,I guess by too many loggers getting hurt.These classes teach you the safe way to cut wood and how to maintain your saw.Seems like the classes cost $500 the first time,than you need the refresher classes that are only half that much.I think the first classes take a week to take.Have to take a week off and pay for the classes too.The classes are no big deal.If someone knows their way around the woods it all makes since.Yes,it's someone telling us what you will do and how much,but that's the way it is around here.

Kevin don't get me started on OSHA! OOOPS, to late :D When I first started logging OSHA was never in the woods. It was something you heard about in factories for the most part.We used to do cool things like ride the riggin up at the end of the day.Hook a choker on both ends of a log , climb aboard, toot for tightline and enjoy the scenery, beats walking or climbing I should say, especially in winter.Last thing you want to do at the end of the day is slog up 2000 feet through 4 feet of snow. Then there was the chaps fiasco.I think it was mid 80s when OSHA with best of intentions made us wear those.Early chaps were like wrapping a pup tent around each leg. Ill fitting big heavy clumsy things with lots of straps to get hung up on everything.I took off running from a barberchair once and my chaps got hung up in the brush. OSHA almost killed me. Then theres the OSHA stumps requirement that came along. I took pride in my perfect flush cuts, those OSHA butts are very ugly and no fun.In my estimation OSHA has saved no lives in the woods, they are merely beurocrat pencil pushers that slowley but surly suck the joy out of life like a tick sucks blood.

What's a OHSA butt?

Stonebroke

OSHA butt is mirror image of an OSHA stump :D Actually it's backcut coming in above undercut. Theory is it keeps the tree from kicking back if you mess up and hit another tree which I of course never do. :D

OSHA butt could also be the guy in the white hardhat with binder and notebooks who has never done your job, but knows how to do it better than you do.

 :D Good one arojay, someone had to say it,I just wish it would of been me dangit. I just did something I never took time or effort to do before, looked at OSHA web site about stumps.The rules like reading a book. Only gov beurocrats could go into such minutia. Three things caught my eye.First was humboldt requires OSHA stump but open face doesn't. I'm assuming openface means what we call around here a dutchman, pie comes out of tree not stump. Second was even if mill or contrator requires flush butt no significant drop in production is caused by squarring end of log after falling. HA! BS! Log count is dependent on logs per tank. Snipeing every but cuts logs per tank way down.Squaring  butts cost you logs, period! Third was even if tree slides or rolls down the hill no significant loss in production occurs, again HA! BS! Id like to see one of those pencil neck OSHA geeks spend a day on the side of a mountain chasing trees down the hill, packing saw back up to next tree over and over all day long! Ok, this rants officialy over. :)

what's up about those high stumps? Isn't the butt any good or is it the trees are so tall you don't mind losing a couple feet of log. I can't believe these guys mind bending over to get the cuts down low.

Stonebroke

stonebroke, I didn't see the video or photos of the stumps. In my experience with the high stumps it's because of the slope, 50+ % slope in particular. The high side of the stump, the uphill side that is, is 8-12 inches above the ground. While on the low side, the side down hill, the stump could be 4-6 feet high. Makes it interesting when cruising those side hills and the tree is fatter than your reach around the girth.  :D :D

Quotehumboldt requires OSHA stump but open face doesn't

An open face notch is one with a 70o top cut and a 20o bottom cut giving you a 90o notch.
The idea is the tree stays on the stump because the apex never really gets pinched resulting in the hinge wood staying intact and not breaking.
If the tree stays on the stump then there's no need for stumpshot.

In my experience with open face, the butt will stay pretty much at the stump if the stump height is about the same as the butt diameter.  If stumps are high to avoid swell, butt defects from nurse tree roots and stuff like that, the log can do some pretty crazy stuff anyway.  If the directional cut is undercut like Humboldt, and that little notch is maintained on the stump, controll is  typically ok.  Undercuts result in a butt with no loss to notching, from the get go.   

Don't want to run away with the thread though.

If you are downhill looking up the stumps will seem pretty high, but they are not.

The open face or conventional cuts are not used here for the most part.  Humboldts are used almost exclusively.  An open face as Kevin described would work really well except production could suffer with the increased time it would take to cut them.  A 70 degree open cut into the log would not be acceptable from a utilization standpoint.  There would be defect in each butt log for the volume lost.  The logger or cutter would tend to "long butt" to clean it up for the scaler. I would guess you would have a loss of about $200 / acre or more for the volume lost plus a possible increase in your cutting costs by nearly the same amount.  Also most contracts for timber sold have provisions regarding utilization that could be used to prevent open face cuts.

Till;
How do you control the trees that are being cut, I don't imagine you mark every one?
If a tree is interfering with the path of the skyline can it be harvested?

Kevin,

Control which trees are cut, we have basal area retention requirements, or diameter limits that will achieve these requirements.  Trees not needed to meet these requirements can be cut.  Trees in cable corridors are cut to facilitate yarding.  We usually allow about 8' off center-line of corridor so you will get about a 16' wide corridor max.  I like to see them smaller but it usually does not work out due to side slopes and the like.

The fallers take plots using angle gauges or prisms to meet the prescription requirements.  There are also specifications for tree form, crown position, crown percentage and vigor.  We allow the fallers to make the decisions.  Most of them are pretty darned good at it.

What about a place like Round Top with numerous windfalls, I can't see how a job like that can pay when all they have is scrap timber on the ground.
I know they get a few leaners but the pickn's look pretty slim.
Are they just cleaning up the mess and getting out?

Its not scrap by a long shot.  The trees will often go over with the root wads attached hitting pretty soft,  There is less breakage than you would expect.  The snapped off ones shown during the show are from storm from last December.  The stuff on Roundtop is from the January 07 storm that Stumbranch is logging.  That area has a little bigger wood than we have on this part of the forest.

 

The fallers will also try to fall the timber up hill as well to lesson the impact. But, not always a good idea on excessive steep slopes where that but could pop up, the top could bounce the tree over on a guy as it slides down hill past the stump. Gravity is a harsh reality.

What happens when the contract runs out and the job isn't finished?

I've logged all my life in every state in the west from Ak to Az , yes Ill admit I'm just an old timber tramp :D. I never heard of this open face thing though, always I mean ALWAYS used Humboldt. Just goes to show, your never to old to learn, you never know everything.

Like Tillaway said earlier, they wouldn't be using this face for production cutting.
It does come in handy if you know how to use it.
I've used it to keep the tree on the stump when dropping a tree over an obstacle like a wood pile or fence.
This face allows the tree to fall further without breaking the hinge.

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/10030/open_face.JPG)

The contracts are written with enough time usually.  Most have two operating seasons, meaning summers, to complete some have more time.  We do allow logging under certain restrictions year around.  Cable logging in particular is allowed allowed year around on all our sales if they are working off rocked roads.  Salvage is usually smaller sales, under say 1 million feet, but not this year.  We have sales from the December storm that will be in the 10 million foot range.  In other districts they will have salvage sales up in the 15 to 20 million foot range.  Most salvage sales where I work is in the 1/2 million or less size range.

If someone  does not complete a contract on time then we can take their bond, grant an extension, or suspend the contract.  We do grant extensions for weather problems for example but we do not grant them for playing the market.  You lose your bond or have a contract suspended then you are basically out of business.  Bonding companies will not touch you if you have had any claim on a bond.

To purchase a big sale you need  to put up a bid bond, performance bond and payment   bond.  Small sales may require a performance bond of only $5000 but the larger sales may require bonding in the millions for the payment alone.  Performance bonds may be up to $1,000,000 or so.

Tillaway;
I want to thank you for answering all these questions, it's well appreciated by all the members who aren't familiar with West coast logging.
Specifically me!  ;D

Quote from: Kevin on March 29, 2008, 11:10:48 AM
Like Tillaway said earlier, they wouldn't be using this face for production cutting.
It does come in handy if you know how to use it.
I've used it to keep the tree on the stump when dropping a tree over an obstacle like a wood pile or fence.
This face allows the tree to fall further without breaking the hinge.

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/10030/open_face.JPG)

I'm wondering why you would fall a tree over a fence? Maybe I'm missing something,that happens to me sometimes :D On the open face thing, whats the difference between useing an open face or just useing a steeper angle on your humblodt if you want more air?  If worried about kickback you could OSHA stump it.Just asking, I'm here to learn. I'd draw one of them cool charts if i knew how. Your chart looks like what I've always called a farmer stump, maybe those farmers arn't so dumb afterall. Just a joke for all you farmers out there and actually a farmer stump back cut comes in about a foot above undercut and slopes down at about a 45 degree angle. Scary looking!

I'm a contract climber, most jobs the customer just wants the tree on the ground so rather than bust up his woodpile or fence I'll drop the tree and leave it on the stump.
This is a picture of a line clearance job, the tree had a communications cable on one side of it and a fence on the other.
By removing the top tie on the fence I was able to fall the tree over the fence away from the cable saving time climbing, rigging and also saving the fence.

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/10030/open_face_notch.JPG)

This is a sketch of a tree over a woodpile I did last fall.

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/10030/open_face_felling.JPG)

QuoteOn the open face thing, whats the difference between useing an open face or just useing a steeper angle on your humblodt

The hinge will break and the tree will leave the stump, later than a standard humboldt but will still break off in the pinch.

Very cool kevin! You urban fallers know stuff us log count high production keep ahead of that hungry yarder fallers don't know.At least this one. :)

So is this thread still about Ax men?
I didn't read through all the posts, but am I the only person who finds the show boring? I watched one full episode and part of a second and could not handle it anymore. It rotates through several crews all doing the exact same thing. Move a yarder, run a cable, break a cable, drag a log up a hill....... I thought I was going to die......


 

The thread is about the show and any questions members have related to it or the subject.
If you don't like it don't read it and and if you don't like the show, don't watch it .

No kidding. 

Maybe you have to have spent some time logging to appreciate it fully, I don't know, but I find the show far from boring and can't wait for each episode to begin. The other thing is, you are now watching some actual Forestry Forum members. Darrell and Melvin. That should make it way more interesting for only that reason if you are also a member here.

I love the show! It comes on 3 times a week here. I watch every one. Drives my wife crazy. :D

Everyone is different.  Some people like to watch things being done others don't.  I for one love to see how others do things.  I love 'how it is made' show too

I agree, love the show!  I see logging all the time but still appreciate seeing how others are doing it.  We seldom have a chainsaw in the woods anymore, all Belsaws and Hydroaxes, pull through delimbers, etc..  When I was in Oregon there was just talk of independent motorized carriages, the show stoppers was either running skyline or helicopter logging.   Same principles then but neater tools now.   As with Deadliest Catch it shows the inherent danger in logging to the rest of the world.  We had a logger killed here two months ago, it is a deadly occupation.  Just like the discussion M.Vaden started on hiking, I work about 50 hours a week on being a forest manager, yet found the time and loved the day yesterday for me against the smallmouth bass.  The bass won, or did it? 8)

Guess that answers that question :D
I actually like the Deadliest Catch, but maybe that is because I don't make a living fishing for crab. It's also suspensefull. Those boys go out on the chance that they will make money....they can come home without a dime or not come home at all. If they don't come home it usually means that the sea was unpredictable and something happened that they could not forsee. Not because they made a mistake or somebody they work with did. 

With the ax men the trees are there and the money will be made. They may die or get hurt, but that is usually based on their own choices or the choices of those around them. The equipment can get rolled over, but you just hook onto it and stand it back up again. Roll a ship over and its gone...... Really a big difference between the two shows.

These are just my opinons so there is no need to get defensive about it..... its an open forum, I can read and post where I like....right?

I've been offline for awhile, but catching up on everyone's post... I would like to say that I hope people watch this show and realize how dangerous chainsaws, trees, lines and winches are.  It seems like there are so many people who go to the hardware store and buy a chainsaw with no instruction or direction on how to cut down a tree or what the dangers are.  I encourage people to explore new things and manage their land, but for them to realize what their own limits are when there dealing with timber and such.  

Obviously, we didn't do this show for money, we weren't paid a dime.  My personal goal for doing the show was more of community service, safety awareness and knowledge about our renewable forests.  I realize sometimes it may be boring for some people, but there is always something to be learned and applied to our own life situations.

cantcutter;
I understand that this show may not be at the top of your list but many people here can't get enough of it and are learning from it.
I think if you went on a Dancing With The Stars forum and said "am I the only person who finds the show boring?" you could expect the same response.

Darrell your professionalism speaks volumes and you're a credit to the industry.
Most people will get it because they can see the inherent danger associated with the equipment.  It will educate alot of homeowners into hiring out the tree cutting hopefully and I think the show is interesting to 99.9% of the people who hang out here. :D

QuoteIt might be too windy to work but it isn't too windy to go hunting

:D ,I can relate to that!

Cantcutter, 
I was agreeing with you.  Nobody likes every show and it will always be that way or TV would be real boring.  What I like you may not and vice verus.  I know I hate the idol shows and such but I am sure others here like them.  Your opinion on the show is acceptable and is needed because it shows balance to the forum. :)

Quote from: dmagnum on March 30, 2008, 11:21:32 AM
Obviously, we didn't do this show for money, we weren't paid a dime.  My personal goal for doing the show was more of community service, safety awareness and knowledge about our renewable forests.  I realize sometimes it may be boring for some people, but there is always something to be learned and applied to our own life situations.

Well said dmagnum. To anyone that thinks the show is "boring" or some things are "staged" I'll tell you one thing  even though the show is very realistic, it is a very different story when you are actually standing under an 1-1/8" skyline and give the hup ho and halfway (a thousand feet above you head) to the landing a 40' long 30" d log breaks a choker and starts chasing you down the mountian!  Some things just can't be related to on film.
I hauled logs, cut timber, worked the riggin crew, ran loader(both cable machine and hydr.) and ran yarder back in the late 60 and 70's on the OR coast and have seen what these guys do on a daily basis.  My hats off to them and the owners for carrying on a tradition that many today would like to see gone.  It would seem that gut wrenching, bone jarring, sweat running down the, (you get the picture) hard work is becoming replaced by carpul (sp) tunnel syndrome (boy is my wrist starting to hurt!).  Thought you might like to see a photo of some of the logs during that time.  Some of you here might even recongnize the outfit.  Sorry about the lousy photo quality, but these are scanned form before diagital.
Loaded!
  (https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/17248/Made_it_.jpg)
high pucker factor landing road
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/17248/HPF_landing_road_steep_.jpg)

DMagnum- Im glad your on this forum. It gives us a chance to get insite from other parts of the country. I love seeing the difference in how you do things out there versus what we do here in Maine. I started my own business here, and i can't wait to graduate high school.

One question I have- What would it take to come out there and be a faller for a while? Or is that even something that could be done? It would be awhile before I would ever have enough money to get out there, but that is one thing I want to do in life. I already cut trees around here that are 3 ft. in diameter, and about 120ft. tall, using the double-bore cut method. I hate double boring, but here in Maine, you have to when you get your CLP liscence.

Maineloggerkid;

What's a double-bore cut?

Stump-Branch is hiring, not sure what job posting but you can check out Mindys http://www.stumpbranchlogging.com

Wecome dmagnum,I realy enjoy the show and beening able to see the method used for harvesting.

Kevin-

A double bore is when you need to cut a tree larger than your bar length. Here in Maine we have to bore our trees rather than cut in from the back. What you do is bore from one side of the tree first to set up your hinge height. Then you go around to the other side of the tree and bore in to the tree and try to make the 2 cuts match up. It almost always is a little off, but as long as the 2 cuts match up at some point then it works all right. It is really a waste of time, but when you get your CLP, it is a requirment, or they will take your CLP away. You don't need a CLP to cut in Maine, but it lowers your workers-comp and people tend to hire your faster.

If I went out west to fall timber, I would just come in the back and make shure I had a long bar.

Thanks for that explanation, I hadn't heard that term before.
We call it a bore or plunge cut but I see what you are saying about coming in from both sides.
Do you bore the hinge as well for your CLP?

what do you mean " bore the hinge" ?

If you mean bore in the center of he hinge, only on rotten, small, or really huge trees that even a bore cut can't connect.

I solved the double bore problem with a big Husky and a 28 inch bar.I did have some pine that my 18 inch bar would not be able to cut the tree into logs.The guy where I bought it from is a real know it all and told me that I did not need a saw or bar that long.Told me about the double bore cut.I listened to him through all of it.Than I asked him how I will cut a a 50 inch tree into a log with a 18 inch bar?He told me I did not have trees that big.Being only 20 minutes away I offered to take him to see the big trees that I did not have.He turned me down.Which I was glad.I would not want to listen to his mouth that long.
I am really enjoying the show.I will be watching all the shows and I may buy the DVD too.Depends on the price.Probaly the DVD will have a lot of extra stuff on it. Chain saws in the woods are getting thin around here too.The guy that cut for me does not do much with a chainsaw anymore.Those big trees are getting less and less.But the logger that I had cuts on mostly paper company land so the trees are not that big.There are still a lot of one or two man crews that have chain saws.

I have a 24 inch bar, but I run into trees 36+. Im am lookin into a 460 stihl, so when I get that , in addition to a 20 inch bar I am also going to get a 36" bar with a full skip chain.

The reason I'm posting this is because I was watching all the old shows leading up to tonights episode and my wife grabbed the clicker and put on some home remodel show ::) She says I can watch the new episode but by god we arnt gonna sit here and log all night! So anyway I'm just killing time. Maineloggerkid, you seem ok, you have the drive.You should come out west and hire on as a hooktender 1st, get experience on the riggin before you go falling. Just go for it, throw your stuff in the back of your pickup and go for it, Your only young once.

Maineloggerkid;
With shorter bars and larger trees you can go into the center of the hinge from the face and sweep out the area behind the hinge .

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/10030/hingeboring.JPG)

ya, thats what I thought you meant. I have done that a few times, but I try to avoid it. The only times I use it are small trees, rotten trees, and really big trees.

Hi Maineloggerkid, it's always nice to hear about young people wanting to get into the business.  I agree with Snowman...if you want to do it, do it!  There are always timber company's wanting to hire in the northwest.  Just keep in mind we have some of the worst weather and terrain the country has to offer.

Let me know if you decide to blaze the Oregon Trail, I might be able to steer you in the right direction!

I greatly appriciate the offer for help. It will be awhile before I can do that, but when ready, I will be in contact!!

I give tonights episode a big thumbs up. Best yet in my opinion. Welcome to the Forum DMAGNUM. Hey let me ask you. How do you feel about selling small timers (like most of us here)logs? Local loggers around here can be a bit snooty making it tough to get wood - even when you offer cash on delivery. I'd be interested in your perspective.


LOGDOG

yeah...this one was pretty good...that last couple episodes kinda bored me.

They don't really have a Dancing with the Stars forum do they?  We can't get Axmen on Starchoice's History Channel so I'm watching Vancouver Canucks and Calgary Flames.  If we did get Axmen, I'd probably have to surf back and forth.

Dancing with the stars forum link (http://forums.abc.com/n/pfx/forum.aspx?webtag=abcmbdancing&catList=General)
;D ;D ;D

Logdog, I'm guessing that outfits like Gustafson's are not buying and selling logs but are being paid to harvest logs belonging to corporate timber companies.

I missed the last episode.  Working midnights.  :'(   Anyone know when it will reshow?

Never mind I found it.   ;D ;D

Most of the timber sales are bought by the various saw mills who hire loggers to harvest the logs.  They in turn take what they want and market the rest to other users.  The logger is told where to ship the logs.  He may not even know what is being paid for them.  Even taking a load of fire wood home is frowned on unless you have permission and that needs to be written so you can show the tree police you're not stealing it if they stop you.

Some loggers can and do buy smaller sales from private land owners and have more say in matters. But public timber sales tend to be at or above 1 million feet at $300+/m.

Current estimates for windthrow from the December storm in the Astoria-Tillamook area is one billion feet damaged or on the ground and another billion in Washington State just across the Columbia River.  A lot of that is smaller second growth but some of it is over 100 years old and nice size saw logs 
Gonna be a lot of chips.   

Quote from: snowman on March 30, 2008, 08:57:32 PM
She says I can watch the new episode but by god we arnt gonna sit here and log all night!

:D :D :D :D :D :D

Now that is funny!!

I got to see some of the earlier episodes last night while I was eating dinner.  I sawed unitl 8:00pm, sat down to eat at 8:30pm, but could not stay awake to watch the normal show at 10pm.  4am just comes around too soon  smiley_sleeping

I find it interesting when they are actually working but I can doze off when the crews are just standing around swearing about the latest misshap.  I mean I can relate because I do my share of swearing when stuff happens - it just bores me on TV.

A couple of things I noticed that raise some questions:

Do those plastic hard hats offer any real protection?
I did not see anyone using any eye protection - how many times do people have to stop because they got crap in their eyes?
Didn't see much ear protection either - no wonder they are constantly yelling.  Must all be deaf...
and lastly - Do all the fallers out west carry around saws with 48" bars on them?  Most of the trees I saw coming out looked to be about 18-20" diameter and smaller.  Is the larger bar mostly used to keep from getting too close to the tree?

I am not trying to be critical.  I am sure there are good reasons for what I am seeing and I would just like to learn.

The high line logging is intriguing.  The weather and slopes make what I do look like child's play.

OWW

I suspect showing up with a short bar on your saw, would get one laughed off the mountain...maybe akin to showing up with a tie and dress shoes.  :D :D

They flip those long bar saws around with ease, and have some pretty long reach too.  Different than the GOL (game of logging) teaching staying close to the tree.  I can see where having a long reach with a saw when bucking downed trees that are above ones head and in thick limbs and brush, would (could) be a clear advantage.

But that long bar, I'd have a time keeping it out of the ground/dirt.

I'm with you on the swearing...boring boring boring. The time spent smoking is another thing that costs them a lot of money through loss of productivity, and likely health. 

But am enjoying the shows...with a grain of the TV flair added.

I can't get over seeing all that jumping around all through that brush. By the time those young fellers reach 40 their going to pay with their knees and backs. In the first two episodes you saw one guys back give out and another guy that had to walk back up to the road before the end of the day because his knees where killing him and his son was left alone down in the brush to set chokers and swing like tarzan on the cables.

I tell ya, I can walk and cut brush all day (6 am - 4 pm) with a brush saw strapped on and not jump and bounce around like that and my knees can be real sore on flat ground. My sore knees can be attributed to climbing on the same types of mountains and worst than I seen on those pictures on BC wet coastal areas where they get a lot more than 60 " of rain. ;)

OWW
Plastic hard hats are required by OSHA.  The aluminum ones that everyone prefers are not OHSA compliant, and not for sale any more.  The aluminum one do command a higher price in the used market if you can find someone willing to part with it.

Eye protection is usually in the form of bugz eye goggles or glasses for those that use it.  Eye protection is a very good idea but you find yourself not being able to see due to fog or water on the lens. The full face shields are used by some but the water tends to plug them and glare is a problem. You also have a problem with chips ricocheting around inside them. 

Ear plugs are used however on the landing or by the fallers.  The big muffs get caught on everything and are a bit heavy.  If you are in the brush, you want to be able to hear in case something starts to go wrong so protection is not used there.

The bars are typically 32" some run 28" some run 36".  The saws are typically 72cc sized and 85cc sized for bigger wood.  The longer bars allow more distance and a head start for tricky cuts where logs are under allot of bind.  Also long bars are easier on your back for limbing, you don't have to bend over.

Till;
Be first on the mountain ...

http://www.cricorp.com/skullbucket/    8)

Kevin
They will sell a bunch of those. ;D

When I was younger I used a 32" bar unless it was real big or real small timber. Now that I'm semi old I use a 36" bar so I don't have to bend over so far limbing.Someday I'll probably use a 42" bar and arch my aching back as I limb. I wear saftey glasses , you can get good anti fog stuff these days. I still have my old aluminum hat but you cant get inserts for them anymore. I think they changed the design on purpose. I collect old logging junk and have an original old steel hardhat on my wall. It weighs like 5 lbs and has a chinstrap to keep it on and a leather sweat band. Back when men were MEN dangit! As far as guys on show useing longer bars than appears necessary, you see some of the bucking windfall shots? A long bar gives you extra reach and a bit more saftey in such situations.

I have a few questions.The yarder operator sends the carrage down to the riggers on a skyline.Who stops the carrage at the correct place?Does the riggers have control of the winch in the carrage?Winch for no better word.Can the riggers control the winch in the carrage to pick the logs up in the air.Probaly don't want the logs to be up in the air,due to weight,but don't want the turn to drag all the way up either.If I got any of the words usage wrong,please correct me.All you guys are doing a great job.I feel your pain when things go wrong.
That Browning crew can move some wood.But he has the money for faster equipment and has a better job site than the others.

Ax men (the series) is getting hammered pretty hard in some of the environmental arenas and websites.  History channel website for one.....Quite interesting and as usual, the loudest mouths are in a very, very small minority.  Trying to bring in all kinds of issues instead of viewing the show for what it is, where it is, and what the intent of the show really is.   I enjoy it, nobody has to watch but they can; for not only entertainment but for education.  'Nuff said....

Quote from: thecfarm on March 31, 2008, 01:54:21 PM
I have a few questions.The yarder operator sends the carrage down to the riggers on a skyline.Who stops the carrage at the correct place?Does the riggers have control of the winch in the carrage?Winch for no better word.Can the riggers control the winch in the carrage to pick the logs up in the air.Probaly don't want the logs to be up in the air,due to weight,but don't want the turn to drag all the way up either.If I got any of the words usage wrong,please correct me.All you guys are doing a great job.I feel your pain when things go wrong.
That Browning crew can move some wood.But he has the money for faster equipment and has a better jod site than the others.

One of the riggin crew (hook tender, choker setters) will stop the carriage with a horn signal to the yarder engineer.  The horn signal is called a talkie tooter, the men in the brush wear what is call a bug (when the button is pushed it blows the horn on the yarder you hear it in the program) Once the sky car is stopped the riggin crew will set the line lock brake on the skyline and lower the drop line and chokers using the same talkie tooter bug (using a different frequency) we used to have a seperate control for that, but i believe that it is now intergrated into the talkie tooter bug.  Once the chokers attached to the drop line reach the riggin crew they can pay out line to reach the logs.  When the chokers are set they will pull the logs up to or as close to the carriage as they need, release the skyline line lock and whistle the yarder engineer to go ahead (3 short blasts) on the main line or skidding line and take the turn to the landing.  If you can get the logs off the ground there is no hangups that is a good thing, however to get that much lift is tough most of the time and just take what the mountian will give you. Any of you guys that have been doing this recently (its been a few years since i've seen the snotty end of a choker) jump in an correct me, if i'm wrong on any of this.

For a while, in BC at least, those wide brimmed plastic hard hats, modeled off those aluminum ones were not CSA approved. When they handed them out at the camps they even said so, and there was no CSA stamp. CSA is an industry driven approval system in Canada, not government. Now I think they have some models of wide brim hard hats approved, I seen one on the Ontario OSHA site and a forestry equipment site. Even an approved hat not kept in clean and good order are no longer accepted.

That's all I ever saw around here was the plastic ones.I don't think I've ever seen an aluminum one,except in the movies.The aluminum ones can be bought at Baliey's,but OSHA is not mentioned as approved.
talltimbers,thanks for the information.

That's the same lid, "Skull Bucket"

QuoteAt long last the aluminum hard hat is back! The new Skull Bucket Aluminum Hard Hat is very similar to the old Mac-T aluminum hard hats that were produced several years ago but it is greatly improved for safety. This new hat complies with the ANSI Z89.1-2003 standards. It's a Type 1, Class C helmet that includes a four point ratchet suspension that fits comfortably and snugly on your head. Available in three popular colors: hi-viz orange, yellow (remember the "Alaska Jack") and our all-time customer favorite – traditional unpainted aluminum.

Just checked out history channel site and all in all the comments seem pretty positive. If this show can give general public a bit of reality about logging and loggers it may help counter the 20 years of brainwashing that the sierra club among others has been so successful at. Time will tell. City dwellers may just notice, hey look, those guys have wives, kids, houses just like real people! They worry about their jobs, they try to send their kids to college and their knuckles don't seem to drag on the ground when they walk :D

The original Mac-T's are a sought after collector's item.

My collectors item is in my barn, behind something, under something else and likely fulla mouse turds. What's it worth????????

snowman, it probably holds nostalgia for fans of "Never Give an Inch/Sometimes a Great Notion" with Henry Fonda and Paul Newman. ;)

How far from the highline can they usually reach over to choke a tree before the skyline has to be moved?

There is usually 150' between roads, however they can and do go much further when they get wide roaded.  That is when they logged the previous road but did not go wide enough so they have to pull further than normal to get what they missed or a lack of suitable tailholds or lift prevents using a road.  Sometimes they pull 300' or so but its not real productive.

Tillaway,
Are all the sites shown in the series on ODF land or are some on O&C, or private (e.g. Hampton, Hancock, or Campbell Group,etc.) ?

Quote from: SwampDonkey on March 31, 2008, 07:16:34 PM
snowman, it probably holds nostalgia for fans of "Never Give an Inch/Sometimes a Great Notion" with Henry Fonda and Paul Newman. ;)

Easy now!!! I was hauling logs for WE McFarland (now Jerry McFarland out of Clats) for L Jepson & Sons (where all the logging scenes were filmed) and watched most of the logging scenes being filmed.  I drank beer in the old Kernville Tavern with all those people (they never did figure out how the tide affected the pool table, made lots of money) also had the opportunity to race Paul Newman in his brand new Corvette, my 68 Nova with a built 427 made quick work of him and his son!

Three were ODF (two salvage and one regular timber sale , one Stimson, one Fibre but now they changed hands and are called Longview Timber.

Here is the one that go me riled up, then I went and found some of the sites blasting logging in general.........

http://www.counterpunch.org/borowski03272008.html

Don't know anything about "counterpunch", may be left handed anyway....

One spring breakup I took a trip down the coast for fun. See the redwoods, dig clams, stuff like that. I stopped at alot of tavs to meet locals shoot pool drink beer.Now I know why my pool game seemed so off and why those guys had that little smile on their faces! TIDES HUH!  :D

Here's (http://www.cbc.ca/informationmorningfredericton/media/feature3.ram%5B/url) one for ya? :D :D


Need Real Audio

Safe Yarding video from WorkSafeBC. (youtube)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XjFNkoukIFg&NR=1

Hey Mindy;
When you're talking with Melvin can you ask him what diameter his skyline is on the Yoder and how they spliced and joined the cable that broke when the tree fell on it?

Thanks.

Quote from: Kevin on April 01, 2008, 09:33:03 PM
Hey Mindy;
When you're talking with Melvin can you ask him what diameter his skyline is on the Yoder and how they spliced and joined the cable that broke when the tree fell on it?

Thanks.

on that machine he is probably using ether 5/8ths or 3/4 inch for his skyline and 9/16ths for his skiding line, he has a lot of line strung off that excavator with no guylines, probably a pretty good ride when he's bringing a turn in!!

we used to use a long splice when we broke a skyline or a running line, I don't know if that is still a legal splice.  I know that the rolled in long splice is illegal now as it was back then (but it sure makes a pretty splice) we had to use a tucked splice in our long splices.  a long splice winds up being about 20, 30+feet long when all is said and done

talltimber;

Looks like they were forming an eye splice but I'm curious as to how they joined the two eyes.
The narrator on the show comments on the skyline as being 1/2" but it seemed a little light duty for that job.

could very well be 1/2" with that small a machine.  if they did use a double eye splice, they would have to use a flush pin shackle that would travel through the sheeves to connect the 2 lines (they typically use tommy moore style sheeves on the sky cars just for this reason).  i have to watch this on my computer smiley_computer_monitor as we don't have cable or sat TV so i don't get the fancy HD wide screen digital stuff like ordinary people do 8), and at the field office too boot so i do miss some stuff >:(.

The narrator said something like, "a more profitable company would of just bought new sky line". Guess I have never worked for a profitable company. :D

Why wouldn't they use a "marriage" splice?  Is it too expensive time wise?  Looks like two eye splices would have a significant "bump" in the cable....

Marriage splice defined:
Basically it involves unravelling both ends of the cable, then removing half of the individual wires from each end, then re-weaving the remaining wires. Wire rope professionals call this type of splice a "marriage" (and pray like hell there's never a "divorce!")

The proper name for that splice is a long splice.
The act of weaving the pairs of steel strands is to marry.
They would need ten foot tails on each end to splice a 1/2" wire rope.
It's quite an art and it would take a decent rigger to perform the marry.

Quote from: Kevin on April 01, 2008, 09:33:03 PM
Hey Mindy;
When you're talking with Melvin can you ask him what diameter his skyline is on the Yoder and how they spliced and joined the cable that broke when the tree fell on it?

Thanks.

Just got off the phone with Melvin.  The Yoader has a 9/16 swedge skyline.  They run a 1/2" swedge skyline and 1/2" ring chokers.  They used a standard loggers eye splice to repair the cable.  Hope that answers your question.

Thanks,
Mindy

The Yoader has a 9/16 swedge skyline.  They run a 1/2" swedge skyline

I would assume that the capacity is then 9/16"and they opt to use a 1/2"?

and 1/2" ring chokers.  They used a standard loggers eye splice to repair the cable. 

I assume here he has two eye splices, one on each end of the break, how does he join these two eyes together?


No rush Mindy, when ever you happen to be talking with him. Thank you!

Anyone know what the "swedge skyline" is?

Is it because the end of the cable has a swage on it?

Swedge line is compressed, 9/16" is equal to 5/8" or maybe a bit larger IPS.  Higher break strength for a smaller diameter.  The cable is basically compressed or hammered to fill voids.  It is harder to splice since it tends to not want to come apart to allow the tucks need to splice.

The advantage is that you can spool more line on your drums increasing your yarding distance, but it costs more too.  It is pretty commonly used.

I think Mindy meant to say they run a 9/16" swedged skyline, 1/2" swedged mainline (skidline) with 1/2" IPS (standard cable) ring chokers.  The choker should break before the mainline.

Ok, I got that.
Thanks!

I now understand why they didn't use a "Marriage or Long Splice", that type cable is awfully tough to handle.  However, doesn't it give folks fits using eye splices too?  Bending that sharp of an angle over a sleeve must take some muscles........

How is the bitter end of the line attached for the eye splice?  Is the cable twisted open and then married (I would think very difficult with swedged line) or do they use a mechanical coupling?

Quote from: Tillaway on April 02, 2008, 11:09:49 PM
Swedge line is compressed, 9/16" is equal to 5/8" or maybe a bit larger IPS.  Higher break strength for a smaller diameter.  The cable is basically compressed or hammered to fill voids.  It is harder to splice since it tends to not want to come apart to allow the tucks need to splice.

The advantage is that you can spool more line on your drums increasing your yarding distance, but it costs more too.  It is pretty commonly used.

I think Mindy meant to say they run a 9/16" swedged skyline, 1/2" swedged mainline (skidline) with 1/2" IPS (standard cable) ring chokers.  The choker should break before the mainline.

Thanks Tillaway,

Guess I didn't get it right when I wrote down what Melvin said.  Thanks for clearing things up for me.

Mindy

 Hi MIndy,so hows the loging going for the guys?I really enjoy the show,my wife on the other hand would rather watch something else but we share the main tv and ax men is a sunday night deal. :) Its been some crazy weather here rain then cold  then warm makes working outside quite the deal.

The logging is getting better.  There is still alot of snow in the hills making it hard to get to the wood.  We finally got a few days of sun, but rain comes again tomorrow.

The Ax Men pulls rank in our house also!  It's on tonight so we will gather around the TV.  I don't know why because its recorded but its good family fun. 

My kids are Stump-Branch billboards.  My daughter is bringing Melvin in for show and tell.  She has to do a speech on a famous person, she chose Melvin.  They have to dress up like the famous character.  Originally I said no because it was to easy, finally I agreed.  She pointed out that we wouldn't have to get a costume together since she has everything Stump-Branch.  As an added bonus she will be bringing her character to the speech.

Mindy

Thats really cool,so do you work for Melvin ?

Yes, I manage the website, clothing sales and schedule/handle appearances.

I plan on buying a stump branch tee and does that mean you can schedule melvin to come down here for an appearance ? 8)

Its very possible!  What do you have going on and when?

Mindy, pack the boy up and bring him to the pig roast.  8)

I'll need some details....

He has a live phone interview with KNUY Y-100  radio out of Fort Wayne, IN on Monday morning.  If any of you are in the area maybe you can catch the show!

well this saturday looks good plan on workn up some small ash trees on the ground and cutting more hedge post then go fishing in my pond sat. night and sunday after I feed the cows go fishing some more.Tell him come on down the beers cold and fishing is good.

QuoteI'll need some details....

https://forestryforum.com/board/index.php/topic,30671.0.html

...all he has to do is eat and laugh  ;D

Quote from: rockenbman on April 03, 2008, 09:38:43 PM
well this saturday looks good plan on workn up some small ash trees on the ground and cutting more hedge post then go fishing in my pond sat. night and sunday after I feed the cows go fishing some more.Tell him come on down the beers cold and fishing is good.

I bet he'd like that very much, I'll let him know of the invite.  Although its a bit of a commute at such short notice. :D

Quote from: Kevin on April 03, 2008, 09:42:06 PM

QuoteI'll need some details....

https://forestryforum.com/board/index.php/topic,30671.0.html

...all he has to do is eat and laugh  ;D

I'll see what we can do.  August is a big month around here for our local towns. I'll get back to you on this Kevin.

Melvin looks a whole bunch like a guy I worked for years ago. He used to take whole crew to whatever tavern was closest every friday and buy all the beer we could drink, and then some. One night we got to arm wrestling and he was beating everyone. I finally said, I'll try you one more time you fat _____. He jumped up quicker than a cat, threw me over his shoulder like a little boy and headed toward the edge of the outside deck , about a 20' drop into a rocky creek. He said "wad you call me?' I promptly apologized and he set me down laughing like crazy. Lesson here is, those big guys are faster than they look! :D

Mindy;

Who was at The Flying Pig Bar and Grill?

Kevin,

Last week just Melvin, Levi and Jeff (the truck driver).  Tomorrow more of them should be there.

Mindy

Some of those guys may be getting to comfortable with the camera. I hope they still have a job this morning after trashing the bosses son in law. I'ts good "reality" TV though, nepotisim is all part of the logging culture and can drive you crazy sometimes. During rough times the saying is, "if ya aint related ya don't work at all".

I don't blame him a bit for trashing the bosses son.If someone was in a truck saying that to me I would probaly hike up the hill and tell him what I thought of his lazy ass and than hike it home because I no longer have a job.  :D 
I would like to know how the Phil crew got the wood out of that 5 acre job they had.With the shovel? These guys don't own skidders,forwarders,do they?

I bet we'll find out next week Thecfarm, they just started that job on this show. :)

For those of you with a faster internet connection and don't get Ax Men on TV, History.com now has the shows on their website.
Looks like they are broken up into smaller chunks, so maybe some of you with slower connections can download them as well.
Link to video page (http://www.history.com/video.do?name=axmen)
You'll need an updated flash player and then look under Ax Men Encores.
They have episodes 3 and 4 up, and they each have 5 parts to them.

Managing humans 101.  Don't ask anyone to do anything you won't do.
Don't do it from a truck either. 

My mouth gets me in enough trouble... 
He'd got an earful out me... 
Looking at the terrain, If I'd had to walk all the way up the hill to talk, the talking
would be over and so would my job.   :-X

 :D :D :D

Don't forget the straighten up your tie.  ;D

I am a third generation logger and can't wait each Sunday night for the show to come on. My son and I record all the shows on DVR so we can watch them again during the week. These are some dedicated crews, working hard and doing a great job for the industry. It's great to have some of the guys on the forum. My actual job is that of a firefighter/paramedic, but with my work schedule I get to work on my Dad's crew on my off days. Most of the logging outfits have an assortment of cats, skidders, FMC tracked skidders for logging flat to semi-flat areas much like the Phil site. My guess is that they would pre-bunch the logs with the loader and then skid them to a central landing to buck, limb and sort for loading.

Getting my Stump-Branch attire ready for another episode of Ax Men,

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/10030/stump-branch.JPG)

now if I can only get Darrell Holthusen to send me one of those chinooker salmon fillets I'd really be log'n!   ;D

Hey, them suspenders look like good ones!


This week's contest prize is going to be a Stump Branch Hat Autographed by Melvin. 8)

Hey Kevin,

How about pictures of you wearing Stump-Branch gear?  What about pictures of other Forestry Forums members wearing Stump-Branch wear?  You could be the trend setters, Jeff's on board now and has a pair of suspenders on the way.  Forestry Forum members....  Please post your photos of you in Stump-Branch wear. 

If you order it can take a while, but usually no more than 4 weeks.  We are getting better on the ordering and shipping this is all new to us.  we appreciate the support!!!   :)

Have a good night,

Mindy

Quote from: Kevin on April 13, 2008, 02:33:33 PM
Getting my Stump-Branch attire ready for another episode of Ax Men,

now if I can only get Darrell Holthusen to send me one of those chinooker salmon fillets I'd really be log'n!   ;D

If you were sportin Gustafson swag, maybe we could talk about salmon fillets... :D  Stump Branch swag looks pretty good too though!

Darrel, do you guys have gear on line?

Yes! 

gustafsonlogging.com

Lets make that link work then!

www.gustafsonlogging.com

I'll swap ya a Forestry Forum hat for a Gustafson Hat  ;)

Done!  Pick one and we'll get it sent to you.

We got all the gear...Now we need that 200 ft log for our world record board  ;D  ;D  ;D

Got any of them layin' around  ??? ???  :D  :D

Quote from: Burlkraft on April 14, 2008, 06:21:15 AM
We got all the gear...Now we need that 200 ft log for our world record board  ;D  ;D  ;D

Got any of them layin' around  ??? ???  :D  :D

Ya lookin' fer work?  I hear their looking for a rigger. ;D :D

Quote from: Mooseherder on April 14, 2008, 06:29:00 AM

Quote from: Burlkraft on April 14, 2008, 06:21:15 AM
We got all the gear...Now we need that 200 ft log for our world record board  ;D  ;D  ;D

Got any of them layin' around  ??? ???  :D  :D

Ya lookin' fer work?  I hear their looking for a rigger. ;D :D

I got all the "work" I want  need, that's not the problem...I'm short on 200' logs  ;D  ;D  ;D

Melvin sure does like his grapple skidder.Looks odd not to see a skidder with no chains on it.

Yeah, but did ya see the tread on those tires???????

Gustafson Logging has some pretty awesome photos on their history page.

http://www.gustafsonlogging.com/history

Good show last night but sad in a way. The guy that's 50 climbing a tree, pounding wedges, running out of breath, cigg in his mouth most scenes. Seems like a heck of a nice guy and a good man but a good reason for kids watching not to smoke. I'm noticibly older :D and can pound wedges till they smoke without running out of breath and my dad pushing 80 climbs trees still just to prove he can and doesn't run out of breath like that. Just something for kids out there wanting to look cool to think about. :)

I'd like to see those climbers using pulleys to pass the gear up to them and rope safeties so they don't plummet to the ground when their fliplines get cut.
It looked like Levi went from using a linemans body belt to a split suspension type climbing saddle which is much better and it's made to accommodate a separate safety but he isn't using it.
One other added measure of safety would be a cinch strap below the cut to prevent the tree from splitting out and squeezing the life out of the climber.

The rigging tree that Melvin was using broke last week, it appeared to have considerable sway in it and I was wondering what they used to tighten the guy lines?

Kevin
They usually tighten guylines by hand. 
Regarding the cinch strap, you have to be kind of selective of the trees used.  For the most part the tree species selected will not barber chair easily.  There is very little risk of it happening if use proper cutting techniques are used.  You have more of an issue with the top hitting you on the way down.

Tillaway,

I have not watch the show in great detail but why do they have to cut the top out?

Rin

QuoteThey usually tighten guylines by hand.

With a winch?


It's not the top barberchairing that's a concern to me although the cutting was slow on that top, it's the bottom that can split open trapping the climber in his strap.
As for the top they can always put a rope in it or cut the branches off one side in order to load it.
Ten seconds to cinch it would be cheap insurance.
It's not apt to happen but if it happens once it's over and it has happened before.

I think alot of people who have never been involved in high production industrial logging have a hard time grasping the pace, the attitude, the "get er done" mentality. Often times saftey takes a backseat to production. If you tried to do everything the safest possible way, you wouldn't get much done. A good example is cutters stacking. On steep ground it's stupid and I've done it. The yarder needs fed, the strips deep and the hookers are screaming for wood. You stack. You keep production going, thats just the way it is.

I'm not a logger, but I've worked outside most of my career in different jobs.  My impression is that logging, like Alaskan crab fishing are hazardous jobs.  The hazards go with the territory and what seems like unsafe practices to most of us are routine activities that the men deal with daily.  It's not that they don't care about safety, it's just that the hazards are the nature of the beast.  As someone said, (in other words) if you apply the OSHA standards the way they do in other industries, you'd go out of business.

Now this is just a theory from a non-logger.

Kevin,
Sure a winch would work but ho one will pack one in.  I assume the type used by arborists.  They are just as effective using nothing more than two guys tugging and flexing the cable.  Take a turn around a stump and pul out as much slack as you can, flex the cable by one guy pushing on it and letting it snap back.  The other guy pulls on the end during the snap when thing are loose.  It gets them tight enough.

There are other ways I'm sure but this is what I have experienced.

A cinch strap is not required by OSHA for topping as far as I know.

You have to cut the top out to meet OSHA regs in case the tree pulls.  There is less of it to dodge.  This usually applies to where the crew would be in danger if it fell.

I agree that the cut has to be right but what happens if the saw quits half way through the cut and stalls the top?
The wind picks up and takes the top?
Usually all hell breaks loose. ;D
When the top isn't being pulled the climber hesitates and slows the back cut to make sure it's going over but that can be a bad thing if it stalls the top.
They could rig a line in the top of that from the ground before the climber ever reaches the top and pull it over for him when he's back cutting it.
No time lost and time better spent by the ground crew rather than standing there watching the guy climb the tree.
Now if the guy gets killed how much time and production is lost?

Quotebut why do they have to cut the top out?

The down guys are below the top and with all the jerking caused by the sky car there would be considerable whipping in the top which could cause it to snap and break.
That's my best guess on that.

Kevin
If the saw quits halfway through the back cut you would just tap a wedge in to stabilize it and get another saw.  If its windy you don't go up.  Doug fir and Hemlock are not real brittle splitting is not an issue under normal growing conditions.

Also many times there is no ground crew.  You are under the impression that Hooktenders have help... lots of time they don't.  They can and do rig trees solo, it might not be the best practise safety wise but it is a fact of life here.

Ok, let me clarify ... a little more than half way through, to the point where the top is going over and there's too much hinge wood.  ;D

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/10030/split_out.jpg)

As for the ground crew , it was in relation to what I'm seeing on the show.

Topping trees is scary to me, I can't tell you how many I've topped.  I take every precaution necessary: two sets of climbing gear, chaining the tree below where I am going to top it and I'm never alone.  Even with tree climbing experience I'm nervous every time I climb... you always take the risk of something going wrong.   Production is always a factor but it doesn't overrule common sense.

We used to use a chainsaw winch to tighten tree guylines, but now we use rope instead of wire for our tree guys.  The rope is easily tightened by making a twister out of it.

We use grips and a hand puller to tighten guys to get them tensioned.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/10030/grip.jpg)

I agree, until that top starts going over in the desired direction the situation can be somewhat  tense.
Darrell, do you rely on natural lean to take the top over or do you promt it with a rope?
Do you use a rope safety in conjunction with your flipline?
There are so many things that can be done to improve not only the safety but the production as well without additional time delays .

I suppose cutting a tree on the ground is no worse than topping one,with the correct training,but I'll stay on the ground doing my cutting.  ;D  That looks real dangerous to me,but makes for great TV. I'm glad I'm watching the show.Learning alot watching it and reading about it here.Melvins sure does have some bad luck with his equipment.But that is the trouble with make do equipment.But it all breaks down no matter what.Just need to keep the parts on hand you THINK you will need.But that cost money that is tied up.But without that you lose money when something breaks.Looks like to me history channel went to both worlds,Melvin,just starting out and Browning who has been around and has the money and the equipment to do with.It all takes time to get there.

QuoteHow about pictures of you wearing Stump-Branch gear?

Mindy, I might be able to get an action shot Saturday but at 53 our idea of action may differ slightly.  ;D

Hey Kevin,

Looking forward to it.  What's going on Saturday?

Mindy

I just bid a job at a nail patch site up along the shore of Lake Superior.
It's only three birch trees, two that require climbing  and one that has to be placed on the ground in a bit of a tight spot.
A few buildings below and a field bed that can't be damaged.
If I don't end up there I'll be setting some lines on another job I picked up a few days ago but can't start until May.
I can get the lines set and save time when the time comes to take them down.
These are three trees as well, all climbers, top out and piece down except one Red Oak veneer tree that will just lose it's top and get dropped.
Again more buildings and power lines below.

QuoteCheck out Melvin's lift tree footage

What I think I'm seeing is just a single down guy.
Wouldn't they normally guy with two or three?

Quote from: Kevin on April 16, 2008, 09:25:01 PM
I just bid a job at a nail patch site up along the shore of Lake Superior.
It's only three birch trees, two that require climbing  and one that has to be placed on the ground in a bit of a tight spot.
A few buildings below and a field bed that can't be damaged.
If I don't end up there I'll be setting some lines on another job I picked up a few days ago but can't start until May.
I can get the lines set and save time when the time comes to take them down.
These are three trees as well, all climbers, top out and piece down except one Red Oak veneer tree that will just lose it's top and get dropped.
Again more buildings and power lines below.

Sounds like something Dwayne (of Pihl Logging) could relate too!  :)  Re: the last  Ax Men show he had a heck of a challenge.  Of course he made it happen, as you will!

Thanks,
Mindy

Dwayne ...
I'm going to cut wood till I'm 75, fall over dead and call that retirement. :D

Dwayne's  8)  He's authentic  :) :)  I also like his taste in chainsaws  ;) ;D

Yep, I get the feeling about Dwayne too. That he is the real deal.

Ditto! on Dwayne.

I've been enjoying watching him right from the first show. :) :) :)

Quote from: Corley5 on April 17, 2008, 01:06:08 PM
Dwayne's  8)  He's authentic  :) :)  I also like his taste in chainsaws  ;) ;D

Wudda them Husky's taste like  ???  ???  ???

I'm thinkin' chicken   :D

Quote from: Chet on April 19, 2008, 12:13:11 PM
I'm thinkin' chicken   :D

And prolly gas and oil and sawdust too  :D :D :D

A bit crunchy too  :) :)

 I like Dwayne as well,seems like some I would like to hang with and learn from.When it comes to falling trees he knows his s%#@. :D

Any utility line supply should have these grips.

http://www.mytoolstore.com/klein/1604-10.html

http://www.cable-lashers.com/id85.html

http://www.eaglelinetools.com/pullinggrips.html

This is what I was saying earlier, if you had a grip similar to these you could clamp it to the skyline and anchor it back to the yarder to keep the line from heading back down the hill while you worked on the sky car.
I'm just not sure if anyone makes one that large.

That scene was a little confusing with the broken spar, the first time I watched it the two guys seemed sloppy, two guys and a skyline then when it breaks I see one line that appears to be a single down guy.  :-\

Ok Mindy;
As promised, here's an action shot of me and my dog working a log in Stump-Branch log wear.
It was really overcast and the lighting is poor but I promised to deliver and here it is!  ;D

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/10030/stumpwear.JPG)

Your better stick ta chainsaws and forget the camera thing... :D  The dog does look pretty good though. :D

Hey, where it to the cabin when you come and I'll bring mine and we'll take a proper picture. ;)

I wish I had a picture of you hanging upside down on that ladder.  :D

Quote from: Kevin on April 20, 2008, 09:10:34 PM
I wish I had a picture of you hanging upside down on that ladder.  :D

Yer a funny guy... :D   

Actually, me too.  :)

Quote from: Kevin on April 20, 2008, 04:09:50 PM
Ok Mindy;
As promised, here's an action shot of me and my dog working a log in Stump-Branch log wear.
It was really overcast and the lighting is poor but I promised to deliver and here it is!  ;D

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/10030/stumpwear.JPG)

Oh come on Kevin, where is the action?  I can't see the wind moving :D
Thanks for sporting your Stump-Branch wear.

Mindy

I really liked tonights show, and the promo for next week looks good too. That Jammer logging looks crazy...

Quote from: Jeff on April 20, 2008, 11:09:04 PM
I really liked tonights show, and the promo for next week looks good too. That Jammer logging looks crazy...

Hey Jeff,

I just got off the phone with Melvin.  I think that jamming logging is crazy too.  He's been talking about it but I didn't understand it until tonight.  I'm thinking you are right it does look crazy!!!

Mindy

   When I saw the jamming logging two thoughts came to mind, :o insurance and OSHA. Looks to me that you'll likely lose one and gain the other!

Mark

Mindy;
When you're working a log on the landing you really need to get a feel for it and there's no better way to get a good feel for a log other than sitting on it for awhile.  ;D
Your Stump-Branch wear is good solid high quality clothing, can't wait to get the new stuff that's on the way!

I'm gonna have ta git me one a them Hoodies.........

The way I'm restricted on what I can do, it looks like that will work just fine  :D :D :D :D

Those hoodies are too hot to work in, I wear mine all the time.  8)

I loved watching the Jammer logging, now that's adapatibility. I was a little dissapointed in Jesse Browning and his attitude about the yoder side. I know what it's like to have a bad day and also to work for your dad, but enough is enough. Maybe he should spend a few days working with Melvin and his yoder. They sure know how to get the wood out with their machine. Sure is upsetting to see gear stolen from a logging side. I would not want to be the poor guy caught with Darrel's rope. In this area, a guy could come up missing and never be found, especially with dozer and excavator near the job site.  :D

What is jammer logging? It must be a Oregon term.

They also used the term fishing, and I think it might also be know as choker throwing?    They were using the yoder to "cast" the main line and chokers to the logs.  I couldn't figure out the benefit other then getting to some areas you might not be able to reach without a whole new set up. 

Or tong tossing?

Jessi has a whole lot of growing up to do. Every other time they show him he is throwing something on the ground. When he threw the chainsaw onto the log deck because it was dull I  nearly turned off the TV. :D And then they showed him putting mud on the logs out of frustration. I would sure hate having him as a boss. A bad case of nepotism as I see it. Nearly anyone of the guys under him would make a better foreman. Too bad, Joe

I had the same disgusted feeling. I just wonder what the repercussions are when his dad seen that on video. If it was me, and that was the first I saw it, I'd be sending Jesse his walking papers. Kid or not.  I don't care who's saw it was. Odds are it was not his own and not paid for with his own money or he would not have tossed it.

I think the "Jammer" term comes from the Idaho area. The first time I saw it was on the show. I'm sure Tillaway or one of the Idaho guys will set us straight.

I wondered if it was what we call grapple yarding.The link here shows our grapple yarder working a few years back up the Lillooet River toward Meager hotsprings.

Link (https://forestryforum.com/board/index.php/topic,13313.msg22296.html#msg22296)

We also would run a dropline carriage with it in the right ground but for the most part the grapple stayed on.Worked even better with a excavator as a mobile backspar.

The pic below was taken in 1980 and shows a Linkbelt LS98 with a snorkel on it.The snorkel gives the operator a longer cast for cherry picking.

(https://forestryforum.com/images/YaBBImages/userpics/Paul_linkbelt_ls98.jpg)

We spent 3 days in Oregon back in 1995 on a tour of some skylogging operations hosted by Steve and Ed Aulrich for McMillan Blodel and I saw several old Linkbelts working and some beautiful country.

Paul, Melvin would use the yoder to get the end of the cable and chokers swinging. Eventually he would get it swinging in a circle. At a given point, when he the swiong had enough momentum, he would release the cable like a sling, shooting the cable end and its chokers out, hopefully, to where he was aiming.

I think I like the snorkel method better ;)

Paul;
It's like taking a long chain with four or five chokers attached to the end of the chain and swinging it violently over your head then trying to release it at the exact moment sending it flying through the air at your rigging crew waiting down the hill to set the chokers, except it's done with a Yoader at a high rate of speed.
If I hadn't seen it I wouldn't believe it.

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/10030/jam_n.JPG)

I suppose it keeps the crew on their toes.I saw an ad for the show on the Knowledge Network a week or so back so I may get to see the whole thing soon.

If I was in the brush I would be on my toes ready to run in any direction  :o. I didn't realize that they used chokers, I was under the impression that tongs were only used. My dad had explained how it worked, but it's one of those things you have to see to beleive. One of the veteran guys I worked with out of high school was from Northern Idaho and he was always telling stories about how good operators could really fling those tongs into the brush. The grapples on the yarding outfits is also really neat. I would like to see one operate in person. I will post some pictures soon of our operation, just be prepared as it's pretty small compared to the big boys.

Looking forward to it Mike.  :)

Mike,
I always liked the small outfits the best because there were more opportunities to learn and get some experience by working all phases from stump to dump.When I was in my teens and early twenties,I'd work for a bigger outfit like Weldwood or M&B  between jobs or if things were tight.

I'm looking forward to the pics too. :)

Melvin tossed a stump a good distance with his Yoader, that was impressive but I wouldn't want to be on the receiving end of those chokers.
That new yarder operator on Pihls crew is wild, that cable was whipping around just inches from Dick the choker setter, if that had hit him it would have cut him in half.

What you saw on the last episode is tong throwing minus the tongs.  To my understanding it is a North Idaho innovation that has moved west.  The technique is used from the Redwoods to the Olympic Pennisula.  Jammer logging is what you did before the tong thrower was perfected.  Some poor guy had to pull line from the landing down the hill and set the chokers, run back to the landing and repeat.  It was commonly done in Idaho and parts of NE Oregon and Eastern Washington.  It was limited to short pulls from the road.

The choker throwing Mel was doing was without added weight since he was only tossing a short distance down hill.  A tire or tongs are added to get more momentum to really reach out there like say 400 feet or more.  Sometimes a choker comes off and it will fly say 1/4 mile. :o

I saw a definite influence in Mels technique from "Grub" and "The Hippie"; notorious practitioners of this technique also based out of Mels home town.  The Hippie, AKA "The Target", spent the last several years having tongs, tires, chokers and various combinations there of thrown at him.  To bad he wore out, I will miss him.

I wish everyone of my jobs had a shovel set up like Mels.  His is the only one that I know of in this area set up to Yoader log and toss tongs.  There are at least two more tong throwers working in this area.

Paul
There are no snorkles down here, and there is one yarder that could grapple yard but our harvest blocks are not conducive for it.

is that an acceptable practice by OSHA?  it sure looks cool, but i'm glad i'm on this side of the TV!

Quote from: Jeff on April 21, 2008, 04:30:46 PM
I had the same disgusted feeling. I just wonder what the repercussions are when his dad seen that on video. If it was me, and that was the first I saw it, I'd be sending Jesse his walking papers. Kid or not.  I don't care who's saw it was. Odds are it was not his own and not paid for with his own money or he would not have tossed it.

What kind of example is he setting for his crew? That kid would be cut loose and out on his own so fast his head would spin. :D :D

The first crew i worked in we had a 124 madill swing yarder  the operator really new his yarder he could cast his grapple on to logs that were way out of reach of the lines.

It is an acceptable practice from an OSHA standpoint.  Mel was a little rusty, if he were to do it every day he would have made it look easy.  What you don't want to do is be anywhere near someone just learning.  It would be fun to watch but you might be dodging flying objects all day.  It usually costs a window or two in the cab of the shovel to learn so I have been told. :o

When I was younger, jammers were very commin in north Idaho. Most you see now are parked in some field, rusting hulks. The jammer logging i'm familiar with though wasn't what was on the show exactly, in fact nothing like it. If the strip was real shallow,say under 100 feet we would sometimes just run up and down the hill pulling line every time but for the most part it was something else altogether.  A true jammar is basically a mini yarder in the way it looks, smaller macine, shorter tower that was usually a spruce log. A cable would go down from tower , through a block at bottom of the strip, then back up to another drum. It was a circle type thing. The jammer would then send the hook down to where you were, you'd hook you'r logs to it, then it would be pulled back up to the road. As a rule very little lift and things were always getting behind stumps, rocks etc. No carriage, no skid and skyline, just a big circle. I'm not sure how clear i'm making this and if I could make those cool diagrams like kevin does, I surly would! :D As for slack, there wasn't any. If you couldn't reach your logs you pulled line clear from the drum,pulled the whole skid line sideways untill you reached your logs. That's the jammer logging i knew anyways. :)One more thing,no fancy radios and tooters, it was all hand signals.

Snowman,
Here in NE Oregon, we called the machine, you described, an Idaho stiff boom.  Mostly they were used for relatively short reaches <300' and the chokers and line were hand pulled back down.  When the layout was set up in a circle as you described, it was simply a high-lead set up'
In the late 50's through the 70's a lot of cable loaders such as Link Belts were converted to jammers.  Some of the guys in N. Idaho became real experts at throwing tongs with them.  I got to watch a few of the real artists who, out to about 300', often didn't need to have the setter in the brush set the tongs.  They could throw the tongs (end tongs) so accurately that they would throw the tongs right on to the log to be yarded, simply tighten the line to set the tongs in the log, and start yarding the log in.  Didn't have much, if any, true tong throwing here in Oregon and I believe it was even outlawed in Idaho for a while by OSHA until they came up with some specific rules on how and when it could be used.

Bald Bob, great name :D As usual I'm fascinated by the change in terms and names in things in different locations. Ne Oregon to north Idaho, a short distance, still a different language. The tong throwing thing was great. I never worked with anyone good enough to not need a hooker in the brush but one guy I worked with could nail the easy logs pretty regular. As far as link belts being set up like jammers, I remember that too but also remember the real old jammers. They were usually mounted on the back of a truck and like i said, a spruce log for a tower. It had a cap that sat on top with a block the cable was run through and eyes for a line or two to tie back to a stump. The guy running it sat out in the open, no cab no roof and sometimes not even any protection between him and the logs. Wasn't uncommon for these guys to get plowed into their seat on occassion. Ahhh the good old days. :D

That was somthing to see with Melvin would never guese you could cast a line out like that.As far as little cry baby jessy I would FIRE HIS A%%  if I seen him throw a 800.00 plus saw on the ground like that.We all have a bad day here and there but you dont act like that on any job any time.................. >:(

Seems like he acts that way all the time.At work we have some older equipment.The boss is a real chevy man,so I always tell him I can make these Chevys run like Fords.They can be a struggle to get the job done.But as I say that seperates the men from the boys.

Quote from: thecfarm on April 24, 2008, 08:45:16 PM
I always tell him I can make these Chevys run like Fords.

Can you turn watter in to wine as well  :) maybe like a fiat . But yeah if you cant do it with the worst gear in the company what makes you worthy of running the best gear. 

ill agree with that if you can do it with the worst you can do it with the best and it makes ya aprrieciate the better equipmnet. that also helps learn to take care of it so when ya go on yur own and daddys not footin the bill anymore your not goin in the hole fixin stuff casue you didnt care care of it and knocked everything fine

What happened last Sunday, I won't get to see it for a few days?

Hey Darrell, I just wanted to say how much I enjoyed watching you fellows drop that big Sitka! :) 8)

What furby said!
I finially got to watch the show last nite. That was pretty impressive watching that monster hit the ground.  8)

Good job!

Ed

Anyone see Dwayne firing up that 335 top handled saw prior to climbing the tree in episode 6?

I saw him warming it up.
Anything else to see ???

No, but I bet you he uses that for limbing and topping. ;D

I noticed he cuts from the side of the tree when topping.
The other fellow or two they showed topping before, cut from behind.
Any thoughts on those methods?

When you top from the side it saves you from moving around to the back.
All cuts are made from one position.
When you get that far you are usually tired and get lazy causing you to cut from the side to save the extra effort of moving.

I personally prefer ta cut from da side. It gives a ya a much better view of how much hinge ya have so you don't cut too far.  :o  Even on stuff dat is too large for da saw to reach through, I will start cutting positioned in da back, then rotate myself to da side of da tree to finish it off.  ;)
Sometimes you have ta "pop" da top ta clear something on da ground. By being on da side you are in a better position to get yer hands on da butt when it breaks free ta send it where it has ta go.  :)

 I only get to watch the show if my son can remember to tape it for me,so I've seen two shows, this maybe an inside joke on the west coast, BUT, I've lost respect for Jay Browning after hearing him call his crew MAGGOTS twice in the same show.
Is this a joke or do some of the companies treat their help this way?

The way I saw him use maggots was not in a bad way or that is what I thought.I would much rather be called that than some of the names I've been called on past jobs I've had.

When you cut from the back it puts you in a position to push your hand against the tree once the top goes over.
The bending moment can cause the tree to rock back and forth and by bracing one hand against the back of the tree and pushing against the tree it will secure your position.
Another advantage is being able to push the top over from behind.

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/10030/topping_trees.jpg)

To ED K
I refer to the riggin guys as woods maggots.  Maggots for short.  I have the utmost respect for my guys.
GET A SENSE OF HUMOR.....

J. Browning

hey look a new guy! Welcome aboard Bossman..... great show give'm hell..... right now I'm Watchin your boy moaning about what a P in the A logging is... so is life.....

Yeah he can be a p in the a at times.  He is also a good worker and very dedicated to the outfit as is his younger brother.  Thanks for watching.  The bossman.

Hey Bossman, welcome to the forum! 8)

Howdy Jay, Welcome to the Forum.

Don

JB; Welcome to the Forestry Forum.
Looking forward to each and every show!
Does the J.Browning crew have a web site?

Bossman,

   Welcome to the Forum. The first time I saw a video clip with you luggin' that great big pulley over your shoulder I had you pegged as a driver. Hats of to you for not letting an injury keep you from being a success. You've got an impressive operation. Looking forward to seeing you around the Forum.

LOGDOG

Quote from: bossman on May 04, 2008, 09:54:15 PM
To ED K
I refer to the riggin guys as woods maggots.  Maggots for short.  I have the utmost respect for my guys.
GET A SENSE OF HUMOR.....

J. Browning

good come back Jay, nice to see you here.

Welcome to the forum bossman.Your crew really move some logs.I heard you had two sons working for you.All that we see is Jesse.Maybe I missed him.What does he do for work?What's his name?How long has he been working for you?Just became a member and I start to ask questions.I really enjoy the show.It's a whole differant way of logging than what I have ever seen.I have seen pictures,but never got to see it all happen in motion.

Welcome to the forum Jay!

Ed

Jay,
Glad you found your way over to the forum  8)
Be sure and check out the various boards.  You may find some things that peak your interest.
Looking forward to your participation.

Yah, It was pretty clear to me "maggot" was a term of endearment. Over the years at the mill and in the woods,we had some that were pretty vile, but you have to use something like that because like J says on the show you have to get out there and be a logger. It just aint right to hear someone calling their crew honey or sweet thing.

Welcome to the forum J.   :)

yes I have two sons.  Jared is 24 and runs equipment for the company.  He was running loader on another side not being filmed.  He also runs the grader when we are running the road crew.  He is right at home on equipment and catches on quite fast.  He is the quiet one of the two. 

Jess is 28 and is now running delimber.  He is engaged to be married in Sept.  The show makes it sound that Jess is being groomed to take over but the both of them are inline together.  That wont be happening for quite some time.  They both have a lot of growing to do and a lot to learn. 

You are doing well to "groom" your sons to someday run the business Jay. It happens way to often that family members are not ready to take over a business, not only affecting the family but all the employees and their families as well.

Ed

Great to see some real Ax Men from the show on here. I watch the show every Sunday night. You guys sure can put out the logs Jay. They probably portray Jesse as more of a whiner than he actually is but he is one of the reason I like the show. It just isn't right without a "Jesse fit". Seem like a great guy. Tell him congrats on the engagement.

That tree Michael cut appeared to barber chair due to a narrow face not a wide hinge.
It looked like the face closed early and the tree split out.

Any comments?

Some news...

Melvin leaves for LA in the AM for the Craig Ferguson show it airs on CBS at 12:35 on 5-9.  I wonder when he will be on Oprah, I can't stay up that late!

I talked to a couple of people from the Pihl Crew sounds like they will have their website up soon, with a web store!  The site address is www.mikepihllogging.com.  Maybe Dwayne will show up here with some of his famous quotes.  It would be great to get all the Ax Men here!

Thanks everyone,
Mindy

That sure would be awesome!

Thanks so much for the heads up about Melvin and Craig Ferguson!  I love that show!  I'll be watching for sure!   8)

Darrell;
Here's a large wire grip being used to tension a transmission line.

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/10030/grip%7E0.jpg)

Bossman, welcome aboard!  Enjoy the show and the many people on it.  A lot of experience and knowledge in the men working the timber industry.  With cameras around, it would drive me nuts.
Keep up the great work.

Kevin

Hey bossman love the show, I used to spend some time around Astoria and enjoy the liquid sunshine..... Do ya'll ever use pull-through delimbers or all strokes?  Seems like the second and third growth DF would delimb pretty well on a pull through.  Is most of your sales private or industrial lands?  Ever do any for State or Feds?

Darrell, in the last two shows there are some hardwoods being felled by the feller buncher.
What kind of hardwoods were those?

Mindy, I recorded Friday's Craig Ferguson, and Melvin wasn't on.  Did he get rescheduled?

Quote from: Roxie on May 10, 2008, 07:21:52 PM
Mindy, I recorded Friday's Craig Ferguson, and Melvin wasn't on.  Did he get rescheduled?

It was on Thursday (which was actually Friday) at 12:35 am pacific time.  I think I may have messed up.  The time changes are so different  I bet its on Youtube by now, I'll search it and post a link if I find it.  Melvin is here now answering all of his emails and posts on the stumpbranchlogging.com website in his forum.

Thanks,
Mindy

Quote from: Roxie on May 10, 2008, 07:21:52 PM
Mindy, I recorded Friday's Craig Ferguson, and Melvin wasn't on.  Did he get rescheduled?

Roxie,

I found it on YouTube http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yk2mkaalYTw

Thanks,
Mindy

Wow!  Thanks!   8)

I see Craig tried to hook him up with horse woman.   :D :D

Good video thank for the post. I wanted to hear the horse lady also.

I did get to hear the horse lady on Friday night, because Craig played a snipit of her whiney from  the night before.  Believe me, she sounded just like a horse!   :D

Did anyone besides me happen to notice that on last nights episode that during the scene when Jay's saw got stolen, He went and got his other saw to cut down a tree. Then when he started to pound in the wedge that he was pounding with his right hand with the hook and holding up the chainsaw with his left hand that was in perfect condition!!! His left hand is the one that was injured!!! They must have mirror imaged it in that scene!!! Did you happen to notice that they done that to you Bossman?

I noticed that too.  I was going to bring it up, but thought maybe Jeff was gonna use it as a contest question. :o

There are other bloopers in the series as well. :)

That was one that really caught my eye. I had to rewind it a couple times to make sure I saw what I saw. (no pun intended) :D

Too bad ya helped out yer contest competitors on that one. ;) ;)  I've crossed it off the list. :)

No fear though, there are more. ;D

Did not even think that it could be a possible question. I won't mention any other things I have seen.
Sorry ...... Please don't disqualify me. :(  :(  :( :D  :D  :D

Adam, your fellow members want you to mention stuff. I have no problem either.  :D 

 To Bossman, west coast talk ok no problem. Glad you signed on.

How many episodes are left?

3 I think. Ten have been shown and there are 13 total I believe.

I feel like a red haired step child. left out! :D
I saw 1/2 of one episode, at the father in laws. He has hill billy cable (dish) and they prefer sports.

I'm waiting for it to come out on DVD, and buy the set.

N

I went to google maps and used the satellite view. You can Zoom in enough to see the loading decks and were the skylines were at draging the wood up the mountains. Looks like they are wiping out some wood.

Man, now that was a storm.......  Will be interesting to see what the effects will be over the next couple of weeks.

Lets just say we are salvaging 20 million board feet more or less.  The damage up north was far worse.

Just wanted to say I have been away from the site for a while, and it`s good to be back. I was too busy with some business ventures, and trying to work a full time job, but I have cut back and enjoying life again.

Wanted to say I really look forward to watching the show every Sunday. I log part time here in Pennsylvania, and really appreciate what the ax men crews do.

Really got to say though, some of the characters on the show, remind me of some poeple close to me.
Jay Browning really reminds me of my dad, who at 65 still does all of the cutting for me.

Melvin Lardy reminds me of my log truck driver. No matter how many break downs or problems, they both have the same attitude, don`t get mad just get it fixed.

Dwayne Dethless reminds me so much of my father in law, who passed away last year, in his every day way of life, and the way he works.

My dad says I remind him of Jess Browning, I`m the one usually throwing things, and even though i`m 40, my dad still tells me to grow up, shut up, and get the job done.

And even though no one I know reminds me of Darrel, I just wish I had the opportunity to work for someone like him. he really seems like a stand up guy.

Enough of me rambling on, i`m just a small time guy trying to log hardwoods with beat up equipment, and selling firewood year round.

Rod Pifer
Punxsutawney, PA

If History runs another series what would you like less of and more of?

I could do with less swearing and more cutting, not just the felling cut but some good shots of the humboldt, start to finish.
I can do without the time lapse footage too.

I would appreciate a better explanation of the technical stuff too. 

I would like to see some more detail on the landing.Bigger trees too.All that is being filmed,for the most part,is stuff that I would sell for pulp.I know there are big ones there,I see them on the trucks.They talk about bucking trees to 40 feet,for what?
I was waiting for someone to bring it up.What did you all think when when Leland pushed the wrong lever and sent the carriage to the ground and almost hit a camera guy?I was not impressed at all.I know things can go wrong,but it seemed kinda odd there was someone under "his" sky line when it happened.

Quote from: racer9 on May 20, 2008, 04:05:50 PM
...............I`m the one usually throwing things, and even though i`m 40, my dad still tells me to grow up, shut up, and get the job done.

hmmmm.........sounds like good advice although no offense intended. I`ve worked for a few guys like this, but not for long

Quote from: Kevin on May 20, 2008, 11:23:07 PM
If History runs another series what would you like less of and more of?

I could do with..........more cutting, not just the felling cut but some good shots of the humboldt, start to finish.
I can do without the time lapse footage too.

Sounds good Kevin. Have you noticed that none of the trees they drop seem to have any lean to `em? How nice would that be?!

The swearing.........just makes me reminisce about the good times with my ex-wife.  :D

I've seen Dwayne wedge a few over, Mel's crew have some leaners on roundtop due to wind damage, they are taking everything over 10o.
Some boring and some wedging, I've only seen two pulled with the car but I'm two shows behind right now.
We haven't seen much felling on the Browning crew, a few by Jay but that's it.
That big spruce was a good fall but I was surprised they didn't test the jacks prior to using them .
I'd like to see much more falling and the fallers talking up the cutting!


(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/10030/dowop2.jpg) ;D

Hey Jokers, sometimes I guess I have to stand back and take a good look at myself, and what a jerk I really can be! I guess I get twisted sometimes because I am paying the bills.  My dad is retired, and doesn`t have to help me, but he says "if I wasn`t doing this what would I do ?"

It is just getting tougher with declining timber prices and rising fuel prices, and I really don`t have to tell anyone about that!

But back to the show, nice to see Dwayne running a jred!

Hey racer9, the first and biggest step in not being a jerk is realizing that you can be one, I`ve been that guy too(probably still am  :o).

I`m never been a guy to throw anything but verbal barbs and punches, although I`ve never hit or kicked anyone who has worked for me  :D, but it took the advice of one of my peers and one of the guys who worked for me whom I highly respected to make me realize that I was being too much of a ramrod which is actually just a polite euphemism for pri**.

On the other end of the equation, I`ve rarely had the good sense to contain my emotions when someone was yelling at me, or God forbid, they would throw something in my direction or get physical, I left a lasting impression with those few............but now that I`m older......and potentially wiser..........I even sort of regret that. Probably most of us can relate to this perspective.

As I said racer, no offense intended.

What are they blurring out on the hard hats and shirts, references to AOL (Associated Oregon Loggers)?

My understanding is is that is because of you guessed it. AOL >:(

I just saw episode 10 and can't believe Dustin would walk in under that hung up tree to cut the tree it was hung up in.
Both he and Levi should know better than that.
For the sake of anyone that saw that, don't ever do it.
That tree would have come down if he had just cut the hinge wood on the hung side.
He wasted wood and worse than that he could have easily been killed.
Don't ever do that for any reason.

Quote from: Rocky_Ranger on May 22, 2008, 05:50:41 PM
What are they blurring out on the hard hats and shirts, references to AOL (Associated Oregon Loggers)?

yeh, i was wondering that to, from what i can see, if it is not stihl, cat, ford, or kenworth, it is blurred out, does anyone know why?? does thoes companys have anything with sponsering the show or contract?? i been wondering that sense the first episode

What are they blurring... lots of things.  Usually "colorful language" but who knows.  One of the guys on a crew I saw today would have to blur his whole hat.  They also have some rather interesting art work from time to time.  Most have a "Logger and proud" in yellow letters on a green rounded corner diamond shaped sticker.  You can find them stuck to everything including loggers pickups, cars, boats, etc.  I have seen them stuck to about everything shown on the show if you look for them (Check the wing and back windows and bumpers of crummies also the side windows of the equipment; most hard hats have one as well).  There are also orange ones too.

Associated Oregon Loggers is known as the original AOL.

Kevin,

I am not even going to comment on that stunt. :o :-[

i know what is blured out, i work heavy construction and wear a hard hat every day, i have some things on mine that are " wrong " but it is what it is " here is a example, if you go back say 2 weeks melvin was at his moms having thanks giving, he had a new john deere hat and shirt on and they were blurred out and on another epsode the big husky levi's partner was running was blurred out but levi's stihl was not when they were on the back of the pickup..................... :o if you really pay attention you would see what i am saying

That was a wild storm they had out there, lots of carnage everywhere.
I'd be surprised if they weren't still cleaning up after it.

Hey Kevin,

They are still cleaning up.  Many families are still displaced, living in travel trailers or FEMA trailers.  I know a lady that is pregnant, has 2 boys already and still living in a travel trailer with her husband.  They hope to be done with the remodel of their house soon.  The town looks "normal" now on the outside but there is still much cleanup to do. 

I'm hoping that we see more flood footage on the Ax Men, it was amazing what happened in Vernonia.  I saw it in '95 but this last flood was fast and high.  In '95 as I recall it rose much slower and retreated slower.

Mindy

I notice you didnt try to answer my questions I sent you. ;) :D

Mindy;
How high did the water have to rise before flooding?
I assume it was the river that came up with all the run off and spilled over causing the flooding?
The wind damage was horrendous!

Kevin,

I'm not sure how high the water rose, many say higher than in '95 for some it wasn't as bad. When the landscape changed in '95 its effects were different throughout the town.  There are some here in this forum from Vernonia that can answer better than I.

Before the Ax Men was aired on History there was a premire party in Astoria.  On the way down there I was in awe at the devastation.  Darrell had every right to be concerned as they show in the Ax Men.  Words can't describe the damage on the way to Astoria.  Of course I have no idea where Darrell's family lives, but it doesn't matter!  The damage extends for miles, and that is what I saw from the highway.  I can't imagine what its like off the maintained road.  Logging jobs had to be affected.

Does anyone else have input?  I would love to hear it!!

Thanks,
Mindy

Hi Mindy, this is Sue Browning.  I was just as shocked as you at all the devestation.  I was out of town during the storm.  We lost approx. 100 trees on our property.  I couldnt reach any of my family for days.  I was also cut off from getting home if I needed too.  Jay was trapped on our road for two days. 
The aftermath in the woods is tremendous.  We are now working on blow down as are others I am sure.  It is very dangerous.  There have been accidents because of it.  My prayers go out to all that have been affected by the storm.

I was around during the columbus day storm.  I was only 8 yrs old but I remember it well.  it was as windy but didnt last near as long.  We were without power for days with that storm also.  I remember the flood of 96 but here in Astoria we are not affected by flood waters.  I guess it is one or the other.  Powerful Mother Nature. 

Only two shows left I cant believe it has gone so fast.  Take care  Sue

Welcome to the Forestry Forum Sue!  :)

Thank's

Welcome Sue, did the state bring in outside help to clean up the mess or did local crews deal with the task?

Quote from: bossman on May 27, 2008, 12:49:43 PM
Hi Mindy, this is Sue Browning.  I was just as shocked as you at all the devestation.  I was out of town during the storm.  We lost approx. 100 trees on our property.  I couldnt reach any of my family for days.  I was also cut off from getting home if I needed too.  Jay was trapped on our road for two days. 
The aftermath in the woods is tremendous.  We are now working on blow down as are others I am sure.  It is very dangerous.  There have been accidents because of it.  My prayers go out to all that have been affected by the storm.

I was around during the columbus day storm.  I was only 8 yrs old but I remember it well.  it was as windy but didnt last near as long.  We were without power for days with that storm also.  I remember the flood of 96 but here in Astoria we are not affected by flood waters.  I guess it is one or the other.  Powerful Mother Nature. 

Only two shows left I cant believe it has gone so fast.  Take care  Sue

Hi Sue,

It has gone by fast!  Melvin was down in Astoria fishing this weekend.  I couldn't believe he didn't go to see you and Jay.  After the show I'll have to get down there for a visit this summer. 

I'm most curious about that patch of trees before you get to Astoria that looked like the trees after Mount St. Helen's blew.  Have they been able to do anything with those?  Also, what do they do about the trees that blew over roots and all?

Tell Jay hello for me, and I hope to talk to you soon!

Mindy

Hi Mindy not sure if you are talking about the trees on hiway 30 or 26.  On hwy 30 a company out of Astoria is cleaning that up.  Not sue about 26.  Up in the woods the logging companies are the ones dealing with the blow down.  Tell melvin next time he comes to town he needs to call.  Take care Sue

Kevin
It was a odd storm ranking number 2 with the 1962 Columbus Day storm (wind to 145 MPH )at the top.  It was unprecedented since the storm blew for not the usual 6 or 8 hours max like normal ( gusts to 70+ MPH are common to the storms here) but lasted for 2 solid days like that with gusts to 129 MPH just a few miles north of Tillamook in Bay City.  The wind damage was mostly confined to a band within about 12 miles of the ocean starting right here in Tillamook to well up the Washington coast into BC.  The heavy flooding was localized to a band starting about 18 miles inland and about 10 miles wide running N/NE through Washington.  The headwaters of the Nehalem River caught the brunt of the rain fall and sent it down into Vernonia.  On our storm damage assessments for our roads have a definite band of water damage, washouts, slides, ect., tracking across our forest pointed right at Vernonia and Chehalis, WA.  The usual places flooded here in Tillamook but caused less damage with exception to the Chevy dealer than the flood the previous year.  Astoria caught the brunt of the wind in Oregon. 

We still have roads out and bridges missing, in fact you will see the bridge over the Salmonberry River is washed out in a future episode of the show.  It is still not replaced and is causing me quite a bit of inconvenience.  The Port of Tillamook Bay Rail Road line used by the local mills was washed out, you will see this as well,  and will cost about 30 million to repair if FEMA decides it worth it.

FEMA showed up but locals are dealing with the repairs for the most part.  I don't think too many crews from out of state showed up, maybe some utility line crews.  BC Hydro sends crews down pretty regular.  I did see a tree service outfit with Florida plates in town, that was kinda strange.  Everyone and their dog owns a chainsaw here so roads get opened pretty quick.  If a storm is predicted and you are going over the hill to Portland it is not uncommon to throw a saw in the rig in case you have to cut your way home.

Most folks here have the USGS Hydrological prediction center bookmarked on their computer.  We use it to determine when a river might be fishable in the winter and to know when to break out the sand bags and move the cars from the Chevy dealer.  Several businesses in the flood prone part of town are several mobile coffee trailers and a taco truck.  When the water comes up they move to high ground.

Just finished reading all the post's from weeks past and there's a lot to respond to. Not in this post but more later. For now, I just ordered the Gustafson hat/T-shirt special. I'll be going to Stump Branch next and finding something to buy. It's good to be able to help support these companies in some way, kind of like using the companies that support the FF.

Jay has a website also/.  www.jmbrowningloggingandtrucking.com.  Thanks Sue

Quote from: Kevin on May 22, 2008, 08:24:03 PM
I just saw episode 10 and can't believe Dustin would walk in under that hung up tree to cut the tree it was hung up in.
Both he and Levi should know better than that.
For the sake of anyone that saw that, don't ever do it.
That tree would have come down if he had just cut the hinge wood on the hung side.
He wasted wood and worse than that he could have easily been killed.
Don't ever do that for any reason.

I hit Dustin's dad Tim with a tree years ago up near Jewel , our son Orion and I are loving watching Dustin on the History channel.

Is Eric Davis the son of Earl? If so have him give me a call, I need guys like him... His dad was a hard worker too.

As far as "jammer" logging goes try taking all the chokers off and fixing a 30-50 lb weight on a ring with about 2 feet of chain above a midget bell and quick nub. That way you have a choker as long as the tossing line and far more accurate.

Been there done it..

Sword Logging

Thanks Sue, I'll check out the site.

Welcome to the FF, Scott.

Welcome to the forum Scott.
Cody is Earls son.

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/10030/cody.JPG)

So how many pople from the show are good old  Forestry Forum members now? Nice to have ya here.

Quote from: Kevin on May 28, 2008, 09:22:20 PM
Welcome to the forum Scott.
Cody is Earls son.

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/10030/cody.JPG)

Hi Jay just loves Cody.  Especially the song he sang out in the brush when no one showed up for work.  Jay is impressed with Cody and Eric.  I met them both at the premier nice kids. 

I would agree, they seem like good natured hard working young men.
I was trying to listen to the words of that song but I can't make out what he's saying about the bug?

Speaking of Jay, I found his attitude and the endearing names he has for his crew to be pretty humorous. It reminded me of when I was breaking in as a lineman and some of the older guys I worked for. Some of the trades are just that way, it goes with the territory. I'd like to hear what his crew's call him, he seems like the kind of guy who can take it as well as dish it out. The work environment demands mental toughness and discipline, you have to be able to perservere when the situation gets tougher than normal. Some guys handle it differently, like Jesse with his shouting and throwing stuff around, it's no big deal and probably helps him relieve stress. After a couple of those blow ups, I'd bet his crew just shakes their head and says, Here we go again! 

That song was his version of the one on Billy Madison, he even did the voice pretty close. :)

When was this flood that we're seeing on the show? I don't remember this storm being discussed here on the Forum. Seems as though there would have been a lot of work for some of the members here with portable mills.

LOGDOG

I think I heard a date of December 5th mentioned on the show tonight.

Monday,Dec. 3rd. 2007
It really started on Sunday afternoon Dec. 02, 2007.

http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/localnews/2004049894_webcoast03m.html

Quote from: Kevin on June 01, 2008, 10:47:14 PM
Monday,Dec. 3rd. 2007
It really started on Sunday afternoon Dec. 02, 2007.

http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/localnews/2004049894_webcoast03m.html

Hey Kevin,

Were you able to see tonight's episode?  More on the flood tonight.  December 2nd was my husband's and I wedding anniversary, I remember it well.  We went down on the 3rd to help friends when the waters started to receed.  Melvin's brother and sister in law were who we were helping.  They were expecting a baby any day and had a 3 year old at the  time.

Quote from: LOGDOG on June 01, 2008, 10:39:44 PM
When was this flood that we're seeing on the show? I don't remember this storm being discussed here on the Forum. Seems as though there would have been a lot of work for some of the members here with portable mills.

LOGDOG

Try this thread:
https://forestryforum.com/board/index.php/topic,29757.0.html

Hey Jeff,

We got those hard hat decals in, you can view them at www.stumpbranchlogging.com/store (http://www.stumpbranchlogging.com/store)  They are in the same day shipping section.  What did you think of the flood?  I hope Kevin got to see the last episode, do you know if he was able to see it?

Thanks,
Mindy

Mindy;
I haven't been able to get the last two episodes but I'm hoping I can get my mitts on them this week.

Dang i havent missed a show yet. Till last night the last one. I am going to have to find a way to watch it.

They have repeats through the week.Sometimes at 2am.Go to the history channel for the weekly program.

I thought last night was the last episode too initially but then it sounded like there's another one yet. Was it the last or is there another one?

If you guys get a chance to catch the show  " Tougher in Alaska" with the episode about logging in Southeast alaska it's a good one. Great scenery, big trees and more of a focus on how it gets done. Good stuff.

LOGDOG

One more to go.

There will be an Ax Men marathon on Saturday.  I believe all the shows are going to be on.  Season finale will be on Sunday night.

I saw the Tougher In Alaska episode of logging.  Those trees are big up there!  I really enjoyed the show.

Mindy

Hi maggotts! :D Been working out of town falling bug kill grand fir, camping out, baths in creek, no tv, no puters. Catching up on the show today and this forum.I see some of the guys on ax men found this site.My advice is run like you would from a barber chair, this stuffs adidctive and a huge waste of time, not even any chicks to hit on. :D Just a coincidence I came home this weekend, nothing to do with seeing last ax man show. :D  Anyway Monday will find me back in snag world  so fear not, I'm not back, just visiting.

There goes the neighborhood.  :D

Did you see that dude shimmy up the cables on the yarder? I'm impressed.

LOGDOG

Me too.Bet he's done that a few times.Now the Ax Men is done I don't have to stay up past my bed time.Was a good show.I learned alot from it.

Cowboy Bob is so sorry to see the show end, it was his favorite show.  He was even gonna make me record the PBR (bull riding) if it overlapped the Ax Men! 

We sure hope the History Channel will do it again!   8)

Like most everyone else I watched the last episode. Came away with  some questions.  How do the contracts work with a deadline?  Is the end of the logging season a state or federal time?  What about all the timber left on the landings?  Or is the end of the season just for the filming? 
One other thing, After the flooding, Did the feds ever come in with some help?

ny walt, I can answer one question, the "season"  is the tv season. There is no such thing as a logging season. The season refers to the episodes for the show and has nothing really to do with the operations of the logging companies.  In short, there is no logging season.

NTWalt
What Jeff said about the season.  The "Challenge" site is not done yet, actually its just one landing, I was just up there.  They are expect to finish up after some road repairs are made.  I was looking at the road since we need to haul logs right through the area.

There was quite a mix of ownerships where the crews were working during filming.  I can only speak for one land owner so to speak regarding deadlines.  Most of our contracts have a length of at least two operating seasons, summers, to allow for road building and logging during the drier parts of the year. Winter operations are at the discretion of the landowner / forester usually.  Some shut down all or portions of operations, such as road building or ground yarding, cable operations go year around provided the roads hold up to log hauling.

Our contracts do have hard deadlines regarding Threatened and Endangered species protection.  If the surveys run out then operations come to a stand still until surveys are completed again and a biological assessment is written and approved.  The contract deadlines usually coincide with T&E surveys.

I enjoyed watching the shows, i grew up doing some of the same things in the woods, but i dont miss it as much as i like to think i do, I pretty much quit after 2 of my friends were killed driving truck, not the most hazardous job out there, but still it happens.

ok so a portable sawmill is not the safest thing to run either and ive had teeth embedded in my shoulder from a misshap once, and scars and brusies just not as much as those out in the woods get.....

The faces look the same only the names are different as I watch the show, there really is not much difference in 400 miles being inland from that breed of cat who logs for a living.... a few terms different of course, but not much and the machines are pretty much the same anymore too. We just dont have the fast growing timber like is on the coast though....

The big mills here are slowing down, the logging companies are laying off here and yet aare still working as much as they can, one trucking company owner recently passed away and the wife sold the trucks and shop to another fella and he picked up the contracts and kept as many guys on who would work for him [a few did not, but that is local politics same probably as anywhere else] the word has not stopped turning, and we have one family over here from Vernonia that was flooded out [my wife teaches one of the kids karate] they hopw to remodel their house over there, peddle it and build here...... I wonder how many folks left over there like that?

William
North Central Idaho

Quote from: blueduck on June 09, 2008, 03:01:37 PM
[my wife teaches one of the kids karate]
William
North Central Idaho

Who usualy wins the fights. I bet you dont pick any fights. That would scare me. Im afraid of my wife and she dont even know karate.

Quote from: semologger on June 09, 2008, 10:04:43 PM

Quote from: blueduck on June 09, 2008, 03:01:37 PM
[my wife teaches one of the kids karate]
William
North Central Idaho

Who usualy wins the fights. I bet you dont pick any fights. That would scare me. Im afraid of my wife and she dont even know karate.

My wife is a former world champion kickboxer and retired professional boxer, I on the other hand have a portable sawmill and make big sticks...... but i walk softly and hope she dont read this....lol

William

Hello everyone,

I know Melvin never comes in here and posts as some of the other Ax Men do.  You can only guess what he is like in person.  So I thought I would share with you what a fan (now a friend) wrote about meeting him on his personal blog. http://krisandken.com./?q=node/172 (http://krisandken.com./?q=node/172)

I met these nice folks a few weeks back. They were on an Ax Men tour hoping to meet some of the guys form the show.  They went to Elements Cafe for coffee and Mike and Dewayne were there.  They had emailed me through the Stump-Branch site and I invited them to my house, Melvin was fishing that day, so they had to settle for seeing the Stump-Branch internet operations.  I found out that Ken has some computer/website knowledge. 

Well this last weekend I had a website crisis, after many failed attempts of trying to contact my website hero, Jeff Brokaw,  I used my phone-a-fan option.  Ken and Kris came right out to help.  He was able to fix some of the problems.  Monday morning still in the midst of my crisis, I finally get an email back from Jeff.  In a matter of minutes he fixed everything for me.  Turns out Jeff and Tammy had lost power, internet and phone over the weekend, how selfish :D

Thank you all for your help and support.   

Mindy;
Thanks to you and Stump-Branch for the contest prizes.
Are you taking the Summer off now?  ;D

Hey Kevin,

No time for time off!  There is lots to do for the summer.  We have events that are coming up that we have to get ready for.  For the 4th of July we are going to be in Vernonia for a parade.  Pihl Logging will be there too, of course!  Should be alot of fun.

Mindy

Try and get some pictures for us, I know you have a camera !  ;D

I'll be sure and post pictures here and on the Stump-Branch website.

Thanks Kevin,
Mindy

Last night on "Ice Road Truckers", driver Rick Yehm was sitting waiting for his truck to be repaired, and he was watching AX MEN!

QuoteDid you see that dude shimmy up the cables on the yarder?

That's an old emergency method to access the spar top on a sailing ship without the use of a ratline.
These rigging techniques have been handed down for centuries.
I wonder if they actually teach this in  rigging school today?

does anyone know if there is gonna be a season 2???

A little fall out from the show.
http://www.dailyastorian.com/main.asp?Search=1&ArticleID=52544&SectionID=2&SubSectionID=398&S=1 (http://www.dailyastorian.com/main.asp?Search=1&ArticleID=52544&SectionID=2&SubSectionID=398&S=1)

OSHA has several companies around here on pins and needles since the show too.

They can and do write tickets from what they see on TV.  The precedent was someone getting an OSHA violation from what was shown on a local TV news cast some years back.  I makes for good evidence when you have it on film.

To expand on this idea of writing tickets for what is recorded, why not make all manufactures, builders, loggers, miners etc record all the work that they do?  Then OSHA folks could set at there desk, write tickets and wouldn't have to drive around the country and save a lot of gas.

Quote from: Cedarman on July 17, 2008, 07:58:51 AM
To expand on this idea of writing tickets for what is recorded, why not make all manufactures, builders, loggers, miners etc record all the work that they do?  Then OSHA folks could set at there desk, write tickets and wouldn't have to drive around the country and save a lot of gas.

  Shhhhh! :-X

QuoteQuote from: Cedarman on Today at 07:58:51 AM
To expand on this idea of writing tickets for what is recorded, why not make all manufactures, builders, loggers, miners etc record all the work that they do?  Then OSHA folks could set at there desk, write tickets and wouldn't have to drive around the country and save a lot of gas.

Now there you go being logical.   We all know logic doesn't work with bureaucracies.    ;D

Quotea couple hundred dollars in fines

That sounds more like a greeting card that reads, We are in the neighborhood and just wanted to say Hi!
Be careful out there now.
Regards,
OSHA.

Since I don't have cable or satellite TV I had to order the DVD's of Ax Men and just wait. They were scheduled for shipping on Aug 26 and now they have pushed back the shipping date for some unknown reason. I am beginning to lose interest.  :)

That sucks I was really looking forward to getting my DVD's in the near future. I pre-ordered mine after the first episode

If it is any consolation to you guys. Probably worth the wait, no commercials and in proper order.

I was wondering about censorship too, are the DVD's uncensored or do they still bleep every other word?

Horay!!!  The DVD's I ordered on June 2 were shipped on Sept 2 and I got mine today.  8)

I can't watch them tonight as I will be busy watching the Packers walk all over the Vikes, I hope.  ::)

Patty won't let me watch Monday night football anymore. She got tired of me yelling at the pith poor announcers they have. :D

Well *DanG I got my DVD's and they're all censored. I can understand censorship on TV ( not to start a morality debate) but don't try to "protect" me from bad language in my own home.

In this month's Loggers World Magazine there is a letter from Jay Browning on the Ax Men series. Loggers World is an excellent magazine that has a lot of news that affect loggers as well as features on local loggers that are very interesting. Of course it is slanted to the western US but still very informative for all loggers and wood related businesses.

I found Jay's letter on the Browning web site:

http://www.jmbrowningloggingandtrucking.com/press/letter.htm (http://www.jmbrowningloggingandtrucking.com/press/letter.htm)

Good for Jay.  A nice polite well written letter. 

I suspect a lot of criticism from other loggers is jealousy that they weren't the ones chosen to be on the show.  People are jealous over the success of rich and/or famous people.  They don't realize that most rich people got there by working their a*s off 18 hours a day, 7 days a week , taking business risks, using their brains, and investing untold amounts of hard-earned money, scrimping for years,  to get their success. The jealous ones don't realize that they could have done that too if only thay had had the guts.

The average guy who gets on TV or in the local papers or magazines most often just happened to be there when the reporter called for a story and said, "okay".  People will refuse to be interviewed because of a sense of modesty or "they always get it wrong", or to brag that "yeah, I was called by some reporter, but I blew him off". "I sure showed him, har, har."  Then they see the guy who did the interview get all the glory, then are mad that they didn't do it when they had the chance, so get jealous of the guy who did.

The media always plays up the dramatic, the arguments, the one dangerous chance seldom taken to get something done quick, the one stupid act that happens once in a blue moon, the job problems.  Then people reading the story or watching the TV show think this is how it is all the time. Negative sells, positive doesn't.

Other loggers upset with the negatives on the show should point their finger at the show's producers, not the loggers in the show.

Quote from: Norm on September 08, 2008, 05:13:05 PM
Patty won't let me watch Monday night football anymore. She got tired of me yelling at the pith poor announcers they have. :D

Norm, my dad used to watch MNF with the sound off, he couldn't stand Howard Cosell  :D

Interesting show to be sure.  The tv part seems to be quite played up what with everyone running everywhere and in a hurry.  The safety regs seem to be less than up here(BC canada).  We have everyone in safety vests and are quite bound by general safety regulations.  The govt.  mandates some daily and for sure weekly and monthly meetings on all manner of safety issues.  Here if someone twists an ankle there has to be a report written up and filed.  Are there safety procedures not shown on the show or are we the only ones buried in govt.  unneccasary paperwork?

BCtimber,

where in BC are you located?

If you guys want to watch good DVD's of loggin' and tree work... click here: http://www.atreestory.com/ (http://www.atreestory.com/)

I know I'm late to all this... but I thought the show sucked so bad I only watched one episode... and didn't even make it through the whole thing.

Gary

I am in 100 Mile House.

Nice country.Things pretty slow in the bush there right now?

Slow's an understatement, got two speeds here, Stop and Off.  ;D Probably gonna' be awhile before timber prices come back up, feel bad for the little outfits.

Things are slower than they should be right now.  West fraser in town here is still going but I don't know for how long.  Biggest problem is forestry's salvage program.  They just won't let us access any trees.  Seems they prefer a program that is impossible to meet so they don't have to do anything.  Government has to shift its priorities before anything will improve here.

bc--government shift its prioritys?????????????????????? surely you jest!!!!!!!!!!!!!!  :D :D

Yeah I know...  All the focus on the olympics has killed most everything else.  Ah well,  I guess we are all used to fighting our way through regulations!

Quote from: Gary_C on October 04, 2008, 09:36:51 AM
I found Jay's letter on the Browning web site:

http://www.jmbrowningloggingandtrucking.com/press/letter.htm (http://www.jmbrowningloggingandtrucking.com/press/letter.htm)

That was a good letter. Seems like a stand-up guy. Joe

oh yeah ax men 2 starts march 2 at 10pm. 8)

Keep yer eyes open and ears pealed as we will be having an announcement one day soon about Season 2  involving the Forestry Forum and Axmen. :)

 8) 8) 8)

Ed <------impatiently waiting

:D

Bring it on ! 8)

10pm,that's past my bed time.Guess I will be recording it.

Its past mine to, but I'm gonna adjust my internal clock for it just like last year!

Is this go round gonna be the same crews? ( I hope)

I can only say at this point that there will be some changes.  :)