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Are the public aware of where the wood comes from?

Started by Nils Jonsson, June 09, 2021, 08:16:52 AM

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Nils Jonsson

I read an article here in Sweden about the fact that very few of "the common people" know, or think about where wood and paper products come from. Over here it seems that people don't see the connection between forestry and the use of paper and sawn timber. It is as if forestry/cutting down trees is bad because it's visible and undermining the ground picking up sand and stone and iron is ok because it's not visible. The fact is that the forest grows and comes back within a reasonable time as stone and sand never comes back. 
How come that it is the forestry business that get criticized for "raping" the nature? It's very annoying ... 
Do you have this discussion at your end as well? 

kantuckid

Many have no idea. Painted furniture made from Asian Rubberwood often appeals as much as the best high end items made from real wood with grain showing, etc..
I have some estate furniture for sale now on FB. Most potential buyers tell me they intend to paint it no matter that it's very nice solid wood, hard maple or real oak, etc.. Lacking an appreciation for wood people wont tend to have a reason to care where it comes from- it could pop out of a mold and be OK.

 In my area where timber related work or the rock quarry is the most common job other than to drive away to a factory, people tend to be more connected to natural world stuff and extraction is less frowned upon. Same thing in KY coal counties as there's timber on top of the coal. Of course that coal isn't   Not so true as you say among urban crowd. There's the geographic aspect as well as many people don't know where countries are located. Gallup, the polling people did a survey here in USA 1988, to learn what people know about the locations of countries, states,etc.. 14 per cent couldn't find the USA on a map while 50% couldn't locate New York state on a map. Since we no longer teach shop classes to the main stream students here as my generation did, then transport that over to knowing where trees or wood comes from and maybe the two subjects, i.e. geography & woods class are sort of related into ignorance? 
"Public" isn't the limit on ignorance. I see questions on FB Woodmizer Sawmill Group all the time by mill owners or prospective owners that indicate a general lack of knowledge about wood, trees and mechanicals. 
Kan=Kansas;tuck=Kentucky;kid=what I'm not

mike_belben

People are generally ignorant and disinterested thanks in part to their brains being trained and conditioned to think in small, shallow blurbs via social media.  A blurb used to just be the headline for the article you had to read.  Now thats all there is, headlines on twitter IG FB tik-tok etc.  Its rewiring minds.


Kim kardashian has what 225million followers and all she has to do is show her butt now and then.  How many followers does the american forest foundation have?
Praise The Lord

kantuckid

Mike is spot on. If somebody asks a question online now days your answer best be damned short or it'll will be ignored. No wonder Amazon dominates web sales as people look for everything in their lives to be one click away from moving on to something else.

But it gets worse yet, and I've mentioned this before- either the Forest products folks don't do a great job of promotion or the alcohol and horse industry are much better at that or they simply benefit from a cheek to cheek relationship with the news media as they do advertise often?
Here in KY forest products far exceed the horse industry in economic value but guess who gets the press space? Forest products also exceed the booze industry too but again, who get the most press?
I can see that horses and whisky have more ad value than chopping down a tree or sawing some boards but fact remains that almost never does the forest products industry get much media attention of any kind. A storm damaged tree that fell on someone's roof-that's about as close as it gets to the news. Once in a great while you'll see a wood processing opening, mostly nothing else.

In nearby Morehead, KY there is the 2nd largest hardwood processing going on in the USA yet a newish large greenhouse that grows maters (Appharvest) is in the news as it's a very woke operation given it's mostly solar and a food source too. And they get the word out themselves!

Kan=Kansas;tuck=Kentucky;kid=what I'm not

Texas Ranger

That is akin to anti hunting, don't kill animals, get it from the grocery story.
The Ranger, home of Texas Forestry

quilbilly

We are quite bad in the PNW. Forest industry employs thousands. There were very few open areas. Most farms are where trees once grew. Farmers get tons of support. Loggers get tons of hate. 
a man is strongest on his knees

Southside

Completely agree with what has been said. To add to Mike's comparison I have read a few articles about how Kardashian actually manages and sets up all of those incidents that make her family rich. It's the same as wrestling, all for show, yet millions throw money at her. Just shows how stupid the average person is. 

What is even scarier is that half are even more stupid than average. 
Franklin buncher and skidder
JD Processor
Woodmizer LT Super 70 and LT35 sawmill, KD250 kiln, BMS 250 sharpener and setter
Riehl Edger
Woodmaster 725 and 4000 planner and moulder
Enough cows to ensure there is no spare time.
White Oak Meadows

Hilltop366

Quote from: Southside on June 09, 2021, 11:01:43 AMWhat is even scarier is that half are even more stupid than average.


Half seems like a lot, wouldn't it be more like 50%.;D

Hilltop366

Hang on, maybe more like 55% because everyone is giving 110% now days.

mike_belben

I try to give the benefit of the doubt and find something to be optimistic about but it is hard some days.   I just try to remember that ive been blessed with a good family and good life.  


All that said, "people are idiots" can answer a lot of questions.  Every now and then the idiot is still me. 
Praise The Lord

kantuckid

Here's an e.g. of some people's way of not thinking:
 I've had a bunch of estate furniture ads up on FB marketplace -several months now. 
I've had two messages recently asking the typical "is it for sale" thing. These ladies both asked the best price and I said we'd take a reasonable offer but the prices were in the ad for a starting point. I throw in that we don't live where the items are, in fact 75 miles away, so please call for an appt. to see it. Then they both get ticked off saying they don't have a car. OK, I asked, how did you plan to see or buy or haul it?  :-\
Stupidity in action? 
Kan=Kansas;tuck=Kentucky;kid=what I'm not

Wudman

Our area used to have a community sponsored forestry festival.  It was known as the "Heartland Forestry Festival" and was held at Wilkes Lake in Farmville, VA.  I attended on behalf of our company each year.  Exhibitors were mostly local forest products companies, equipment dealers, portable sawmillers, and craftsmen in various trades.  It gave the public a view into forestry and forest resources.  Forestry and agriculture are still the two main industries in Central Virginia.  A woman approached my booth.  I would guess she was in her early 40's and in the local vernacular she "wasn't from around here".  Her question to me......"Are you a good forester or a bad forester?"  I asked her to elaborate.  "Do you cut trees?"  "Yes M'am, I'm in the timber investment business.  I manage tree farms."  "Then you are a bad forester".  I went on to talk to her for about 45 minutes.  I learned that she was a Registered Nurse from New York.  She had moved down here for a more relaxed lifestyle and was working at the local hospital.  I talked to her about what we did, the conservation measures we employed, the areas we preserved, the products from our tree farms, and the science behind it all.  She listened to it.  When we wrapped up our conversation, she thanked me for taking the time to talk with her.  Her parting words were something to the effect of, "I understand why, but I still don't like it."  One cannot reason with emotions.

My sister's husband invited some old college friends to our family Christmas gathering one year.  A couple of them were fully indoctrinated in the "Environment" Movement.  My Dad was listening to the conversation and pointed to me and said "My son is an Environmentalist".  Their eyes lit up when they thought a fellow "movement" guy was there.  I told them of the numerous projects I had been involved with including the conservation of Old Growth Cypress / Tupelo forests, Red Cockaded Woodpecker habitat, Atlantic Pigtoe (mussels), Yellow Lampmussels, Virginia Least Trillium, Northern Long Eared Bats, Gopher Tortoise, Canebrake Rattlesnakes, Indigo Snakes, and about a dozen other species.  I had been recognized by the Nature Conservancy and the Center for Conservation Biology for work with the Red Cockaded Woodpecker.  They thought they were in the presence of an environmental superstar until one asked me who I worked for.  When they found out I was a lowly forester for a Timberland Investment Organization they looked like they had been shot.  It really hurts to question one's opinions.  :D :D

Back when I was routinely doing public service work in our school systems, one of our visuals was a stump with various forest products in it.  For most, the toilet paper and paper towels wasn't too hard to grasp.  When you ventured into food items, cosmetics, and some "plastics", folks were a bit more surprised....especially the teachers.  The bottom line.......people with a brain will listen, but you can't overcome emotion.  Social media solicits emotion.  Many people think everything posted is the truth.  Most don't want to know otherwise.  My wife is ultra-conservative politically, but I have to caution her to stop and think about some things she reads on Facebook.  If it doesn't pass the smell test, dig a little deeper.  If the public would tie toilet paper to the harvest of trees, life would be much better for those of us on this side of the fence.  The public really feels the pinch when there is no Charmin.

Wudman   
"You may tear down statues and burn buildings but you can't kill the spirit of patriots and when they've had enough this madness will end."
Charlie Daniels
July 4, 2020 (2 days before his death)

btulloh

Wudman, you have illustrated the situation perfectly with those thee stories. The same dynamic where emotion trumps reason underlies every aspect of our society. It is not a good thing. 
HM126

Jeff

Its the industry as well that really doesnt care what the public thinks as long as the money rolls in and the only time they do is when the cash slows down, so then they try to "educate" It aint never about the trees, it is about the green gold.
This is coming from a guy that really tried. A sawmill flunky that sat on an educational board with procurement foresters for the likes of abitibi, international paper, Weyerhaeuser, G.P. and L.P.  

I resigned along with my other non industry friend from the DNR When I saw they were using us to funnel lobby money, that was it. We do more to educate here than any industry educational "board"
Just call me the midget doctor.
Forestry Forum Founder and Chief Cook and Bottle Washer.

Commercial circle sawmill sawyer in a past life for 25yrs.
Ezekiel 22:30

Southside

Quote from: Hilltop366 on June 09, 2021, 11:10:53 AM
Quote from: Southside on June 09, 2021, 11:01:43 AMWhat is even scarier is that half are even more stupid than average.


Half seems like a lot, wouldn't it be more like 50%.;D
Well with the exchange rate closer to 43%  :D
Franklin buncher and skidder
JD Processor
Woodmizer LT Super 70 and LT35 sawmill, KD250 kiln, BMS 250 sharpener and setter
Riehl Edger
Woodmaster 725 and 4000 planner and moulder
Enough cows to ensure there is no spare time.
White Oak Meadows

mike_belben

Look into gaia. Its literally their religion.  Mother earth and all that. 
Praise The Lord

dgdrls

This applies to almost all things that make daily life easier.

Ask folks if they know where their electricity comes from?
They only care about it when the bill comes and when it's out.

D

thecfarm

I would like all the folks that don't want wood cut, to live without wood for a month.  :o
Model 6020-20hp Manual Thomas bandsaw,TC40A 4wd 40 hp New Holland tractor, 450 Norse Winch, Heatmor 400 OWB,YCC 1978-79

treemuncher

I always love it when some tree hugger gets *pithed about my work, giving me crap about all of the trees I've laid to waste and made disappear. They want the modern convenience of electricity but hate to see a right-of-way cut out. Maybe they don't like to see around corners on the highways or they get jealous of a property owner that can now see the water from their deck. Yep, trees are beautiful...unless they are in the way. More will always grow back.

Generally, it's, "That's such a waste of good wood! Why don't you cut it and sell it instead of mulching it and destroying everything in your path?"

Me: "Why don't you pick up a saw and do that exact job and take the work away from me, the destroyer of everything? Too much work for you, too stupid to run a saw or are you scared of the heat?" 
"Nothing goes to waste - worms get to eat more and the mulch protects the ground. Always better than slash & burn."

You can't argue logically with idiots. They will always try to beat you down with their lack of intelligence.
TreeMuncher.com  Where only the chosen remain standing

Satamax

Quote from: thecfarm on June 09, 2021, 09:47:35 PM
I would like all the folks that don't want wood cut, to live without wood for a month.  :o
Bromide!  ;D
French CD4 sawmill. Latil TL 73. Self moving hydraulic crane. Iveco daily 4x4 lwb dead as of 06/2020. Replaced by a Brimont TL80 CSA.

Nils Jonsson

Quote from: Wudman on June 09, 2021, 04:01:12 PM
A woman approached my booth.  I would guess she was in her early 40's and in the local vernacular she "wasn't from around here".  Her question to me......"Are you a good forester or a bad forester?"  I asked her to elaborate.  "Do you cut trees?"  "Yes M'am, I'm in the timber investment business.  I manage tree farms."  "Then you are a bad forester".     
Very good stories Wudman. You handled the New Yorker perfectly. When someone criticizes me for cutting trees I normally say: "I will go on cutting trees as long as you buy magazines, toilet paper, diapers, napkins and other paper and wood products + products that are packed in cardboard. Let's continue this discussion when you have stopped doing that." 
I guess I am more rude than you are Wudman  ;) but I can't help it. I can't stand when people, especially educated people, show that they have no sense of logic. 

thecfarm

Don't forget their dining room table, bed room set, probably where they live too. 
People have no idea about wood!!!!!!
Model 6020-20hp Manual Thomas bandsaw,TC40A 4wd 40 hp New Holland tractor, 450 Norse Winch, Heatmor 400 OWB,YCC 1978-79

sealark37

New neighbors from New York State asked me to help them design an ambitious addition to their newly built home.  My advice included a partial list of materials to do basic framing.  She asked"what is a 2x4 stud".  I described the term.  She asks,"So it comes from a tree?"  I replied in the affirmative.  She says that she would rather use plywood, because it is made in a mill, and doesn't require killing a tree.  What could I say?

TroyC

Try explaining to your New York neighbors where duck tape comes from before they think we are killing a bunch of ducks. Just saying  :).

HemlockKing

Quote from: sealark37 on June 17, 2021, 05:33:05 PM
New neighbors from New York State asked me to help them design an ambitious addition to their newly built home.  My advice included a partial list of materials to do basic framing.  She asked"what is a 2x4 stud".  I described the term.  She asks,"So it comes from a tree?"  I replied in the affirmative.  She says that she would rather use plywood, because it is made in a mill, and doesn't require killing a tree.  What could I say?
I would have just left 
A1

Tacotodd

He's tired of trying to explain anything of sense to the unwillingness to learn! Some people are as dense as lead!

But at one time or another, we've all been unknowing. Remember: ignorance can be fixed , stupid is FOREVER!
Trying harder everyday.

Ianab

Quote from: Tacotodd on June 18, 2021, 06:11:27 AMignorance can be fixed , stupid is FOREVER!


Pick your battles. 

Some folks you can explain that wood is carbon neutral and they SHOULD  be making their houses and furniture from  that. (not plastic / steel etc.)

But 1/2 the population is below average on smarts, and that's what makes it a struggle. 
Weekend warrior, Peterson JP test pilot, Dolmar 7900 and Stihl MS310 saws and  the usual collection of power tools :)

mike_belben

i dunno, im pretty stupid sometimes.  id like to think you can learn your way out of it. 
Praise The Lord

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