The Forestry Forum is sponsored in part by:

iDRY Vacuum Kilns


Forestry Forum
Sponsored by:


TimberKing Sawmills



Toll Free 1-800-582-0470

LogRite Tools



Norwood Industries Inc.




Your source for Portable Sawmills, Edgers, Resaws, Sharpeners, Setters, Bandsaw Blades and Sawmill Parts

EZ Boardwalk Sawmills. More Saw For Less Money!

STIHLDealers.com sponsored by Northeast STIHL


Woodland Sawmills

Peterson Swingmills

 KASCO SharpTech WoodMaxx Blades

Turbosawmill

Sawmill Exchange

Michigan Firewood, your BRUTE FORCE Authorized Dealer

Baker Products

ECHO-Bearcat

iDRY Wood Lumber Vacuum Drying for everyon

Nyle Kiln Dry Systems

Chainsawr, The Worlds Largest Inventory of Chainsaw Parts

Smith Sawmill Service



Author Topic: The Elusive Virgin Tract  (Read 2905 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline Don P

  • Senior Member x2
  • *****
  • Posts: 8639
  • Location: Southwestern VA
  • Gender: Male
    • Share Post
    • Calculator Index
Re: The Elusive Virgin Tract
« Reply #20 on: August 04, 2021, 10:44:44 PM »
Jim, I haven't found Col Abram Wood's map yet, if that is the one I'm remembering.

Supposedly he was the first white man to explore the New River Valley in the 1650's. The river was named for him at that time

This map is from 1796 and doesn't show "savannah" but seems to be confirming another story I had heard.
Virginia. - David Rumsey Historical Map Collection
Look along the NC border from the west, Holston river, then the Dan river. No New river between them.

My understanding is that the New river was named Wood's river after the Col. Then they lost the river, it appears to still be lost in the map above. When they found the river again, it was a New river. I suspect this map is a good bit older than its publication date suggests.

In the 1750's Dr Thomas Walker (Big Walker mt and the Big Walker tunnel on I-77) explored the New River up to the Greenbrier, so if it was really lost or just lost to some, they had found it again by that point.

Dr Walker is a piece of history. He was Thomas Jefferson's father's physician and a neighboring plantation owner somewhere around Charlottesville (15,000 acres). He shared interest in surveying and the natural sciences with the senior Jefferson. When Jefferson senior died, Doc Walker served as executor of the estate and acted as guardian for young Thomas Jefferson. 

Shortly after Walker's exploration an early group of settlers set up near modern day Alderson WV in 1763. They were all killed by Indians. In 1770 another settlement nearby did make it.

That was a sidetrack  :D
Carry on  :)
The future is a foreign country, they will do things differently there - Simon Winchester

Offline Southside

  • Administrator
  • *****
  • Posts: 9390
  • Age: 49
  • Location: Wilsons (Dinwiddie County), VA
  • Gender: Male
  • Have a plan to saw every log you meet.
    • Share Post
    • White Oak Meadows
Re: The Elusive Virgin Tract
« Reply #21 on: August 04, 2021, 11:00:50 PM »
Thanks Don - will go check it out right now.  Lost a whole river, that must sure cause some head scratching.  "I am telling you Martha there was a river here with trout 'This Big' just last week".  "Sure George, were there beavers cutting down cherry trees there too? Lets go, the horse is getting tired".   :D

This is going back 25 years now but just off the shores of Square Lake, T15 R6 in Maine I have seen massive White Pine that still had the remains of the "Kings Broad Arrow" carved into them.  These trees were claimed by the King of England for ship masts for the Royal Navy during the Colonial Era.  So they were massive then, and that was 200 years ago.  Spruce - giant by todays measure - would be felled to act as a landing cushion for the pines, then left on the forest floor.  It was considered patriotic to have wide pine - over 24" wide - in ones home back then, kind of a way to say "stuff it", I cut down your tree, to the King.  
Franklin buncher and skidder
JD Processor
Woodmizer LT Super 70 and LT35 sawmill, KD250 kiln, BMS 250 sharpener and setter
Riehl Edger
Woodmaster 725 and 4000 planner and moulder
Enough cows to ensure there is no spare time.
White Oak Meadows

Offline barbender

  • Senior Member x2
  • *****
  • Posts: 8771
  • Age: 46
  • Location: Deer River MN
  • Gender: Male
    • Share Post
Re: The Elusive Virgin Tract
« Reply #22 on: August 04, 2021, 11:46:38 PM »
24" wide pine paneling, vertical, like a middle finger?😂
Too many irons in the fire

Offline SwampDonkey

  • Forester
  • *
  • Posts: 39903
  • Age: 54
  • Location: Centreville, NB
  • Gender: Male
  • Large Tooth
    • Share Post
Re: The Elusive Virgin Tract
« Reply #23 on: August 05, 2021, 12:37:51 AM »
I've been down in that neck of the woods before, the New River. Buddy of mine lived in Blacksburgh and worked at V. Tech. We did some exploring. I call him the bug picker. :D He was researching the Hemlock woolly adelgid and he worked between there and parts of TN. He's still pick'n bugs, but at Forestry Canada now. He did a stint in Idaho to. ;D The oldest red spruce that have been cored are over 400 years old here in New Brunswick. And those particular ones are not even all that remarkably large compared to the ones that were on this town lot. Spruce was never thrown away here, it is king of the north. Some old photos around with horse drawn sleds in winter full of spruce logs. Course that ain't 18th C or older because then it was all oxen work. ;D But yeah, them pines was ship mast material, not what was common in camps and homesteads. Course, this area around here was only settled after the timber railroads came through. All the white population was on the coast lines. Acadian dikes still down on the Fundy, over 400 years old near Hopewell Cape park.

The Dike Keepers
No amount of belief makes something a fact. James Randi

1 Thessalonians 5:21

Offline Mooseherder

  • Administrator
  • *****
  • Posts: 9500
  • Age: 61
  • Location: Mainely Fl.
  • Gender: Male
    • Share Post
Re: The Elusive Virgin Tract
« Reply #24 on: August 05, 2021, 08:21:35 AM »
Our property goes to the eastern base of a place called Moose Mountain.  The west side of Moose Mountain contains a 5-acre stand of old growth spruce. I've met the foresters working for Prentice and Carlisle a couple years ago.  They manage it. It would be nice to check it out. 
I'll ask them to show me if we ever cross paths again.  One of the Foresters pointed out a legacy Maple on our side.  He also found a Moose Antler while we were walking around. 

https://maineanencyclopedia.com/cyr-plantation/
Lane Circle Mill
Homemade Bandmill

Offline WDH

  • Forester
  • Administrator
  • *****
  • Posts: 31936
  • Age: 67
  • Location: Perry, GA
  • Gender: Male
  • April 1998 - August 2008
    • Share Post
    • hamsleyhardwood.com
Re: The Elusive Virgin Tract
« Reply #25 on: August 05, 2021, 09:18:20 AM »
To understand the Native American impact on the landscape in the Southeast where they created savannas with fire, read Bartrams Travels.  He explored the area in the late 1760s before the native Americans were exiled to reservations in Oklahoma. 
Woodmizer LT40HDD35, John Deere 2155, Kubota M5-111, Nyle L53 Dehumidification Kiln, and a passion for all things with leafs, twigs, and bark.  hamsleyhardwood.com

Offline Kodiakmac

  • Full Member x2
  • ***
  • Posts: 229
  • Location: North Glengarry, Ontario
  • Gender: Male
    • Share Post
    • Upper Canada Outfitters
Re: The Elusive Virgin Tract
« Reply #26 on: August 10, 2021, 07:52:59 AM »
Most surviving old growth bush in this part of Ontario has been protected by its terrain: it is either marooned by swampland or has grown between huge shoulder-to-shoulder boulders that sit on top of glacial eskers.

The Province and municipalities dangle the bait of much-reduced property taxes for those landowners who wish to declare the "natural heritage features" of their lands; and old-growth bush along with wetlands certainly qualify for these tax exemptions.  

But once you declare your lands as Conservation Lands, you effectively lose control over them and open them up to very critical examination by a host of bureaucrats from various government ministries and quasi-government agencies such as Conservation Authorities.   The end result is invariably a multitude of land-use restrictions that not only encompass the actual heritage feature, but a large, ever-expanding protection zone around it that limits anything that falls under the broad-brush definition of "development".  

Another unintended consequence is that while walking the property boundaries, the bureaucrats get to see what is on adjoining lands - and if they see that any of the natural heritage features (and it's an incredibly long list) exist on the other side of the man-made border, they have no hesitation about slapping land-use restrictions on the neighbour.

The glitter of immediate property tax relief blinds people to the long-term reality of land-use restrictions that affect resale values and can sour relationships with neighbours.

So in these parts, wise folks stay vewy, vewy quiet about their old-growth.   fudd-smiley fudd-smiley fudd-smiley



Robin Hood had it just about right:  as long as a man has family, friends, deer and beer...he needs very little government!
Kioti rx7320, Wallenstein fx110 winch, Echo CS510, Stihl MS362cm, Stihl 051AV, Wallenstein wx980  Mark 8:36

Offline mike_belben

  • Senior Member x2
  • *****
  • Posts: 11073
  • Location: Middle TN
  • Pulp Friction
    • Share Post
Re: The Elusive Virgin Tract
« Reply #27 on: August 10, 2021, 08:32:42 AM »
Thats some good insight. 
Isaiah 63:10

Offline kantuckid

  • Senior Member x2
  • *****
  • Posts: 1441
  • Age: 77
  • Location: Eastern KY
  • Gender: Male
    • Share Post
Re: The Elusive Virgin Tract
« Reply #28 on: August 27, 2021, 03:19:13 PM »
Here in E KY we have the Lilley Cornett ( he was a man) Woods  in Letcher County. It's managed by Eastern Kentucky University as the Appalachian Ecological research Station. It's open to the public under a controlled process through the ranger station on site. My wife & I hiked it in the late 1970's-it's a magical place for a tree freak like me! 
It's called a mesophytic forest. To qualify as an "old growth forest" 150 years untouched is the criteria I've read. Many of the huge trees in there are not as tall of trunks as in my own forest but some have record size overall diameters of the upper growth. Maybe the result of falls opening the canopy?  I've worked several Chestnut oaks on our land that counted out to ~ 135 years or so. There's another virgin tract not too far south of me near the Red River Gorge Geological Area. I forget it's size, seems like it was under a 100 acres and no where near the 554 acres of Lilley Cornett Woods. 
Lots of hickory is found up high as they left them behind.
Hickory:  I came onto two ballpeen hammer heads and was looking on Amazon a few days back for replacement handles. One was listed for $64.30. Most were more than a used ball peen hammers worth at around $12-16 per handle. I will make my own as I've done before (turn them on three centers) but tried to be lazy and it didn't work.  ;D 
Kan=Kansas;tuck=Kentucky;kid=what I'm not

Offline LogPup

  • member
  • *
  • Posts: 39
  • Location: Greenville, S.C.
  • Gender: Male
    • Share Post
Re: The Elusive Virgin Tract
« Reply #29 on: August 27, 2021, 11:04:12 PM »
Don,  There are several maps that show both New River and Woods River.  A map of the most inhabited part of Virginia containing the whole province of Maryland with part of Pensilvania, New Jersey and North Carolina. - Copy 1 | Library of Congress  .
Woods River is at the left side top.

David

Online WV Sawmiller

  • Senior Member x2
  • *****
  • Posts: 11003
  • Age: 68
  • Location: Hinton WV
  • Gender: Male
    • Share Post
    • Green's Sawmill Services
Re: The Elusive Virgin Tract
« Reply #30 on: August 27, 2021, 11:15:16 PM »
  I don't know about the rest of this thread but either I need to resize my screen or the admins need add more space on  the subject line. After all this is a family site and every time I look at this category this one keeps flashing up as: "Re: The elusive virgin ..." :D
Howard Green
WM LT35HDG25(2015) , 2009 4wd Dodge PU, Kawasaki 650 ATV, Sthil 440 & 441, homemade logging arch (w/custom built rear log dolly), JD 750 w/4' wide Bushhog brand FEL

Dad always said "You can shear a sheep a bunch of times but you can only skin him once"

Online hacknchop

  • Senior Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 546
  • Age: 60
  • Location: Bruce Mines Ontario Canada
  • Gender: Male
  • I'm new!
    • Share Post
Re: The Elusive Virgin Tract
« Reply #31 on: August 28, 2021, 08:05:36 AM »
I think it's called "clickbait".:)
Often wrong never indoubt

Offline kantuckid

  • Senior Member x2
  • *****
  • Posts: 1441
  • Age: 77
  • Location: Eastern KY
  • Gender: Male
    • Share Post
Re: The Elusive Virgin Tract
« Reply #32 on: August 28, 2021, 08:35:52 AM »
I'd call it wandering minds? ;D
Kan=Kansas;tuck=Kentucky;kid=what I'm not

Offline Don P

  • Senior Member x2
  • *****
  • Posts: 8639
  • Location: Southwestern VA
  • Gender: Male
    • Share Post
    • Calculator Index
Re: The Elusive Virgin Tract
« Reply #33 on: August 28, 2021, 07:19:21 PM »
Thanks David, I don't think I've seen that map before, really cool. 

After reading Lewis and Clark, I've been reading an account of exploring the Great Lakes and upper Mississippi by Jonathan Carver in the late 1760's.
https://ia800203.us.archive.org/25/items/travelsthroughin00carv/travelsthroughin00carv.pdf
 He predated Lewis and Clark's Voyage of Discovery of around 1804, they had read Carver's account. They were all looking for the northwest passage. There are references to Father Hennepin's account of travels with LaSalle from Niagra Falls through the same area in 1688 although Hennepin's accounts apparently venture into incredible tales told him and has some factual problems. Anyway, Carver is tedious but interesting reading, good accounts of who and what he was seeing at that time. 
The future is a foreign country, they will do things differently there - Simon Winchester

Offline barbender

  • Senior Member x2
  • *****
  • Posts: 8771
  • Age: 46
  • Location: Deer River MN
  • Gender: Male
    • Share Post
Re: The Elusive Virgin Tract
« Reply #34 on: August 28, 2021, 10:30:41 PM »
I'll have to check that one out, Don. I love history, I've been through "Undaunted Couragec several times and I e got a few others to read it as well. The Lewis and Clark expedition was really so different from the picture that I had in my mind I could almost say I was shocked by it. I had always pictured Captains Lewis and Clark, led by Sacagawea because that is the narrative that is out there. Even on road signs and such. Not that she wasn't an important part of the expedition, especially for translating. But to say she was there "guide" is really doing violence to the historical record, IMO.
Too many irons in the fire

Offline SwampDonkey

  • Forester
  • *
  • Posts: 39903
  • Age: 54
  • Location: Centreville, NB
  • Gender: Male
  • Large Tooth
    • Share Post
Re: The Elusive Virgin Tract
« Reply #35 on: August 29, 2021, 03:12:15 AM »
:D As to conservation ground, I've seen it used as a payback scheme. Old clearcut mill ground someone had dreams of selling off as camp lots in remote areas of the Renous and Bartholomew. The heyday of remote big game guiding and fishing has been done for decades. It was maybe 3 years ago now, that someone found a way to make a buck of said lands by asking them if they were interested in it, they was, and said land owner cashed in for far more than was paid when he purchased it. Old mill ground goes for about $250/acre and I believe he got $1000/acre in return. :D He had every logger around here looking at it for timber harvest. A couple crossed my path. All you needed was photos and you could see 95% was all clear cut, just riparian edge left with trees falling down in every wind event. Of course the photos in the 'news' was of old trees that were non touch in the riparian zone along the creek. Look at all the old growth, let's save it. There's more money scams out there than you can shake a stick at. And don't think that he didn't have buddies in that conservation group, probably a member. Actually, indirectly linked by the Miramichi Salmon Association. These are salmon streams. ;) :D
No amount of belief makes something a fact. James Randi

1 Thessalonians 5:21

Offline Don P

  • Senior Member x2
  • *****
  • Posts: 8639
  • Location: Southwestern VA
  • Gender: Male
    • Share Post
    • Calculator Index
Re: The Elusive Virgin Tract
« Reply #36 on: August 29, 2021, 07:18:40 AM »
@barbender I had to go look up the link to Lewis and Clark, I think this was prepared for their bicentennial, it was a good read;
The Way to the Western Sea Lewis and Clark across the Continent | Journals of the Lewis and Clark Expedition (unl.edu)
The future is a foreign country, they will do things differently there - Simon Winchester


Share via delicious Share via digg Share via facebook Share via linkedin Share via pinterest Share via reddit Share via stumble Share via tumblr Share via twitter

xx
No longer a virgin...

Started by mrcaptainbob on Chainsaws

4 Replies
1565 Views
Last post June 22, 2011, 01:01:11 PM
by nmurph
xx
Not a virgin anymore.

Started by POSTON WIDEHEAD on Sawmills and Milling

15 Replies
1365 Views
Last post June 19, 2013, 06:33:39 PM
by POSTON WIDEHEAD
xx
Virgin Timber

Started by Junior437t on General Board

8 Replies
1886 Views
Last post September 17, 2005, 08:07:06 PM
by Junior437t
exclamation
Time to Sacrifice Another Virgin

Started by Fla._Deadheader on General Board

41 Replies
8071 Views
Last post January 28, 2009, 07:42:36 PM
by metalspinner
 


Powered by EzPortal