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Author Topic: jms 900 sr  (Read 1414 times)

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Offline logman81

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jms 900 sr
« on: September 18, 2021, 05:06:11 PM »
Thinking about buying a used one and wanted to know if anyone had one and could give me their opinion on them. I have a 4x4 atv that can pull it and I'm thinking it would be good for my landscape and tree service. 
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Offline Ed_K

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Re: jms 900 sr
« Reply #1 on: September 19, 2021, 07:00:39 AM »
 I bought a new one from Bailey's and mounted it on an old boat trailer that I modified into a 4' x 8' cordwood trailer. As soon as I had it all together I found out it 's reach was to short to even pick up logs beside the skid road. I also found out that the yamaha big bear couldn't handle it so I got a M.F. 1433 tractor and even that had a hard time when loaded good and going down hill. At one of the forestry shows I bought an r-flex 380 trailer from Anderson out of Canada and mounted the 900 onto it. This trailer was even bigger than the boat trailer and the 1433 was useless, that's when I upgraded to the Landini 4x4 with winch and hauled the 380 with it. Ever since I got the 900 onto the flex 380 I've been modifying the loader, bigger pistons, longer reach and lots of beefing up. It now reaches 13' and that's to short. Plan on having some sort of winch to pull the logs closer to the trailer so you can pick them up.
Ed K

Offline logman81

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Re: jms 900 sr
« Reply #2 on: September 19, 2021, 07:54:49 AM »
Thanks Ed k I don't think I'll run into that problem like you have. I have been talking with a couple other owners of them and they love them just the way they are. I'm not doing logging like you are I'm more in the landscape/tree work side of things plus some small backyard logging. I have  both a atv that I have modified to work in the woods and a older duetz allis tractor I can pull it with. So it would mostly be use as a back saver rather than for any kind of major production. I'm thinking having something is better than having nothing at all in my opinion. 
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Offline logman81

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Re: jms 900 sr
« Reply #3 on: September 19, 2021, 03:51:18 PM »
how big of a log can it get on the trailer without to much difficulty?
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Offline logman81

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Re: jms 900 sr
« Reply #4 on: September 19, 2021, 03:54:18 PM »
 

 
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Offline logman81

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Re: jms 900 sr
« Reply #5 on: September 22, 2021, 07:25:00 PM »
Thanks for your help
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Offline Ed_K

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Re: jms 900 sr
« Reply #6 on: September 23, 2021, 06:59:41 AM »
 The best I've done as far as weight was a 20" x 8' red oak. I had to take the bolsters off the side I was loading then get the back up onto the trailer then grab the front side and pick it up and set it close to the head board. I like using it to load chunks of firewood that are to heavy for me to pick up and put them on the splitter.
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Re: jms 900 sr
« Reply #7 on: September 23, 2021, 08:57:21 AM »
youre not gonna want too much weight behind a quad.  i know theyve got impressive demos on youtube but no one ever makes a demo vid showing the shape of a 4wheeler after a few years of being shackled to that load. yeah they have the power to pull but not the mass to stay together long term under that yoke of burden.  quads are thin wall tube and little chinese bushings and not cast iron and bronze.  hey i abuse my old kingquad senseless so i am all for doing what youve gotta do, but it was $900 and i can recover when it folds in half or breaks an internal shaft and explodes the gearbox.

 when its time to replace the quad go with a compact tractor that weighs at least 3k.  
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Offline logman81

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Re: jms 900 sr
« Reply #8 on: September 23, 2021, 09:22:46 AM »
Thanks Edk that's not to bad and figured as much. It's not going behind my quad even though I've used it for light duty logging and have addressed weak points on it and made it stronger to handle it. It would be pulled behind my duetz allis 5230 tractor that could handle it much better if I decide to go forward with it. I did recently come across a old loader/winch combo that is a bit bigger that I could build a trailer or maybe find one without a loader and mount it on that so I'm looking into a few different options. It's mostly going to be used on tree service and firewood removal jobs and small lots.
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Re: jms 900 sr
« Reply #9 on: September 23, 2021, 09:48:06 AM »
Sounds like logman's got it under control, but something you said, Mike, makes me think back to some blathering I was doing on this board maybe two years ago or so about how I was going to be doing lots of thinning and TSI work with some kind of side by side, UTV, what have you, and that at that time, I was leaning towards a big, slow, hydrostatic machine of this type.  This was at a point when my largest piece of equipment was probably a wheelbarrow.

Luckily, my son and I were chatting up there one day when he said to me, "dad, I think we really need the tractor first, then worry about kid's rides and stuff later.  Man was that correct!  Ended up with Bobcat compact utility tractor with front loader, and my world immediately improved.

Handy, handy things, those CU tractors!
Far as I can tell, it's 6 of one, half a dozen of the other...

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Re: jms 900 sr
« Reply #10 on: September 23, 2021, 10:03:13 AM »
yes sir, been there done that. 


logman the trailer will make it possible for you to move in the ballpark of maybe 7 to 10x more wood than the same machine can skid, per pass, if the ground is navigable for the trailer.  that is my general observation from skidding and also trailering with everything from gokarts, quads, garden tractors, lawnmowers, bobcat, tractor.  have not built a dray suitable to go behind the dozer yet but i suspect the 7-10ish is scalable. 

my current 2wd tractor is an old 2 cyl 26hp and it moves 1 cord per pass on a trailer without full power.  wheelies at probably 15hp and then i steer it home like a slomo sled puller with cutting brakes. any more ballast would probably break the trans housing. 
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Offline PoginyHill

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Re: jms 900 sr
« Reply #11 on: September 23, 2021, 10:19:43 AM »
youre not gonna want too much weight behind a quad.  i know theyve got impressive demos on youtube but no one ever makes a demo vid showing the shape of a 4wheeler after a few years of being shackled to that load. yeah they have the power to pull but not the mass to stay together long term under that yoke of burden.  quads are thin wall tube and little chinese bushings and not cast iron and bronze.  hey i abuse my old kingquad senseless so i am all for doing what youve gotta do, but it was $900 and i can recover when it folds in half or breaks an internal shaft and explodes the gearbox.

 when its time to replace the quad go with a compact tractor that weighs at least 3k.  
The other risk of a heavy load is stopping. An ATV (or any light puller) hauling a heavy load will easily jackknife when trying to stop quickly. Nearly done so myself more than once. Not a good feeling.
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Offline logman81

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Re: jms 900 sr
« Reply #12 on: September 24, 2021, 07:35:44 AM »
Hey thanks everyone you all have been very helpful and have some good points. I also found something else of interest but would require alot more work and a trailer to put it on.

 
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Offline thecfarm

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Re: jms 900 sr
« Reply #13 on: September 24, 2021, 07:56:59 AM »
I would like to see that thing in action.
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Re: jms 900 sr
« Reply #14 on: September 24, 2021, 08:01:09 AM »
The pickup truck receiver makes me think that the crane may also be a backyard cobbling onto that old 3pt winch, which gives me concern of it snapping off the top of a winch that was never made for it to be there.  

If it was manufactured that way disregard.


On a trailer itd be pretty cool, to have a fast winch with a lot of cable, AND a grapple to load.  But in tractor and trailer configuration itll have a lot of tongue weight and the tractor will need a real stout drawbar, plus a front end loader to keep from doing wheelies. A small dozer or crawler loader with pto would handle it better.


Its way to heavy too far back from the axle to work well as a 3pt attachment imo.  Id expect a big log to rip top link brackets or pins apart.  On a 2wd tractor with no loader i dont think that could drive up a hill without a drum of concrete on front.  My backhoe attachment isnt nearly that far back and even with ~400lbs on front i float the steers up mild slopes.
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Offline logman81

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Re: jms 900 sr
« Reply #15 on: September 24, 2021, 10:23:14 AM »
I'm honestly not sure if it is factory or not it looks to be but I could be wrong I can't find a single thread of info on it. My tractor does have a loader and is 4x4 with good agricultural tires and I have forks to load the front down should I need more ballast. I was thinking it would work nice on a dump trailer and run it all off a gas power pack. Run the winch with a hydraulic motor with a flow control to have the ability to adjust how fast the winch works? The price is almost to good to pass up but I'm not sure which direction I want to go. 
The loader trailer is a lot more money but it's turn key and go but may not be as capable on big logs but I guess I could break them down with a chainsaw to handle it. I'm mostly looking for a way to move tree service waste over customers yards and haul firewood from small lots.
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Offline chevytaHOE5674

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Re: jms 900 sr
« Reply #16 on: September 24, 2021, 11:40:19 AM »
That looks like an old Farmi winch with a loader welded to the top.

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Re: jms 900 sr
« Reply #17 on: September 24, 2021, 11:54:47 AM »
are you going to be using this behind a truck down the road or just in the woods behind a tractor?  


if the answer is tractor, i would machine a belt or sprocket to go over the PTO up stream of the winch and take power off the tractor to run hydraulics.  behind a big tractor itll be pretty effective, since you can twitch to it and load right there.. be awesome actually.. if it dont snap the mast off.  
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Offline logman81

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Re: jms 900 sr
« Reply #18 on: September 25, 2021, 08:42:59 AM »
I was thinking maybe both but im not sure.
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Offline 47sawdust

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Re: jms 900 sr
« Reply #19 on: September 25, 2021, 11:54:42 AM »
Looks like a good way to get killed.
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1997 WM Lt30 1999 WM twin blade edger Kubota L3750 Tajfun winchGood Health Work is my hobby.

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Re: jms 900 sr
« Reply #20 on: September 25, 2021, 01:50:36 PM »
isnt that why people like logging?  the sense of adventure?  i mean id skydive if it came with the occasional hydraulic bath surprise. 
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Re: jms 900 sr
« Reply #21 on: September 25, 2021, 03:30:47 PM »
I had my hydraulic bath yesterday. Beat the Saturday rush.
Mick
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Re: jms 900 sr
« Reply #22 on: September 25, 2021, 03:53:16 PM »
It's no fun unless death is on the line😉
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Offline logman81

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Re: jms 900 sr
« Reply #23 on: September 26, 2021, 10:31:30 AM »
I feel the complete unit is probably the way to go for many reasons. 
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Re: jms 900 sr
« Reply #24 on: September 26, 2021, 02:08:43 PM »
That's a factory Farmi contraption.  Once upon a time they did make such a thing.  Our local dealer had one in stock back in the late 80s early 90s that I lusted after.  I had sales literature on them.  They made lots of neat stuff 8) 8) 8) 
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Re: jms 900 sr
« Reply #25 on: September 26, 2021, 02:26:45 PM »
then i feel much better about it.  

while it was a terrible idea for a skidding device behind a driving tractor, it would work well way back in the black and white days for a stationary winching position like the top of a bank where a straight truck or hay wagon with bunks or whatever is pulling along side it.  a feller is laying them down, a choker setter is running the cable back down and the operator is reeling them in and loading trucks or wagons.

i would lunge at the chance to get that old turd to graft into a trailer to go behind my dozer, me personally.  but only if i could buy it right because i could build it better from pieces.  if not for that pesky time and money issue.  

if you cant operate it, plan on 50% of the packings and hoses and orings to be bad now, and the other half later. 
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Re: jms 900 sr
« Reply #26 on: September 26, 2021, 02:35:37 PM »
That would be a very cool piece of equipment set up as Mike said.
You have to bear in mind that that Scandinavian equipment was designed for pole wood.
I would love to see the original sales brochures from that period
Mick
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Re: jms 900 sr
« Reply #27 on: September 26, 2021, 04:41:52 PM »
yeah, featherweight pole wood, as evidenced by the fixed heel on such a rinky dink crane. you arent heeling big long oak sticks without that tearing the back of the tractor off. 
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Re: jms 900 sr
« Reply #28 on: September 27, 2021, 02:12:57 AM »
Awesome  Corley so my suspicion was right being a factory unit. I too would love to see the info on them I love the concept. As far as price its not to expensive of a asking price and having a now very successful landscaping and tree service business I can now afford such cool old iron, I love the old unusual logging equipment most of you know. 

I was thinking of snagging it and adapting it on to a trailer that I could pull with both my small tractor and pickup to haul tree service waste and some firewood logs. Possibly running it off a small hydraulic power pack and power the winch hydraulically with a hydraulic motor with a speed control built into the system? 
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Re: jms 900 sr
« Reply #29 on: September 27, 2021, 08:17:30 AM »
A gas engine can throttle for speed control easy peasey for free. DC powerpack cant, so it would need a valve to do it.  

Getting a hydraulic motor to run 540rpm and have any real power is gonna take a substantial hydraulic system.  I would look into a 16hp+ gas motor running 3600 rpm into a right angle drive to gear the 3600 down to 540ish for the winch which is gonna want a 1-3/8 six spline coupling- and run a hyd pump for the loader to get 10gpm.  

A kohler k321 would be my choice for used engine since theyre mass supported, electric start,  double shafted and have DC clutch sheaves.  The driveshaft would run the reducer box and the clutched mower pulley would run the pump so that i could crank it with basically no load. Those were the standard for deere and cub cadets with 5 lugs and cast iron front axle beams.

If i had to buy new, probably a 2cyl predator running a lineshaft extension into the gearbox and a belt taking power off a sheave on the lineshaft.
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Re: jms 900 sr
« Reply #30 on: September 27, 2021, 09:47:48 AM »
Seems a bit over complicated to me. I think it could be simplified using just hydraulics to make everything work. Looking at surpluscenter they have 6 splined pto hydraulic motor that could be coupled to the existing winch shaft and run a flow control to dial it in to 540rpm. I feel 10gpm is a bit excessive of a pump most of what I see are 6 to 8 gpm from the manufacturers. I would definitely go new with the components as I'm not to much of a fan of used motors and hydraulics. The predator 22hp is a great motor and probably the one to go with in my opinion.
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Re: jms 900 sr
« Reply #31 on: September 27, 2021, 10:46:22 AM »
the problem with that is youre taking a winch that is designed to run behind a good sized pto tractor.. with a PTO torque likely up in the 400ft lb range.  remember that those cable drums are basically just freewheeling on the PTO shaft and then friction coupled to reel in, and the drum diameters are large relative to the shaft diameter which acts as a speed increaser/torque reducer to boot.

youd need in the ballpark of 20-25gpm @2500+ psi to even remotely compare to the pto shafts performance. thats some series pump, valve, lines, tank, filter and cooler before you even consider the power unit. now youve got enough fluid to make the winch do okayish but the loader is way too fast and the thing costs and weighs a ton. no powerpack is gonna do this either.

if you go with a 22hp predator itll spin 4k (too fast for cheap pumps) and make 45nm peak torque at 2500.  run that into a 4.6ish worm gear to get around 540. this will give you about 150ft lbs of no loss, no heat torque.  the hydraulic system has about 20% losses built in when new and gets worse from there.


for sizing the loader i would go no less than 10gpm.  the rotate, grapple and slew will not take much fluid because they have a fast linkage ratio, but the stick and boom are slower ratios and will want a lot of oil.  you will almost always be running with two sticks open at once and that will immediately halve the flow so dont think of it as 10gpm in each port.. itll be 5gpm or even less much of the time.   at 2500PSI you can only move 14gpm with all of a 22hp engine and youll want all of that when youre in a hurry.  10gpm will be a good match to a 22hp motor in that itll run smooth and not be lugging up and down on the governor. itll sound like the factory made it.

the predator has a pretty long stickout shaft.  it should have enough length to run the belt sheave up against the block and a lovejoy into a gearbox on the end.  i havent built it yet but ive mocked up all the parts for my FW processor off the predator twin with a cheap extension shaft and support bearing to create a line shaft for takeoff power to multiple pumps, a gearbox for the conveyor and maybe a sawdust drag chain or auger. wasnt much.
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Offline logman81

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Re: jms 900 sr
« Reply #32 on: September 27, 2021, 11:07:37 AM »
Wow yeah maybe this isn't going to be possible then. 
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Re: jms 900 sr
« Reply #33 on: September 27, 2021, 11:12:10 AM »
its very possible.  mounted on a trailer, behind a tractor, with a suitable PTO shaft and 10gpm or better remotes.  

going outside of that general scope might be a fools errand.
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Offline logman81

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Re: jms 900 sr
« Reply #34 on: September 27, 2021, 11:58:46 AM »
Yes thats more what I was thinking honestly the winch probably not get used much only on the occasionally when something was out of reach. My tractor is equipped with remotes but there is two problems with that. One being that they power my loader and two I only have 5gpm.
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Re: jms 900 sr
« Reply #35 on: September 28, 2021, 08:48:57 AM »
Help my ignorant eyes here...is that a fold-up boom on that thing, with the grapple sort of sitting up on top?  Different looking for sure.

Some day, I wonder what I'll use to forward small stems out of my plantation en masse.  I'm just dinking around now and the choker cable on back of the tractor is suitable.  But some day....and not too far off, I sure could use a small forwarder.

Or maybe I'll just be hiring the Amish guys to come in and do the work!
Far as I can tell, it's 6 of one, half a dozen of the other...

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Re: jms 900 sr
« Reply #36 on: September 28, 2021, 09:01:59 AM »
These are the scenarios where tongs and a cable jammer crane fit the bill just right.  Make the tongs pin on so you can switch over to choker in a few seconds for reeling to the trailer. 

 You wire an anderson connector back to your tow rig hitch and that puts alternator charge to the big deep cycle battery you put on the trailer neck to power the cheap chicom winch that swivels with the crane.  The winch is $400ish or less, deep cycle battery is $100, $50 for tongs and scrap for the trailer.  Amazon generic remotes are $20 and all will work fine for one hand.  No need for hydraulics.  
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Offline Ed_K

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Re: jms 900 sr
« Reply #37 on: September 28, 2021, 11:09:21 AM »
 I started with this set up to do timber stand improvement back in 1998.



 

 Yamaha big bear with a 6 hp motor w/ a 11.5 gal barnes pump hydraulic tank on the back. It's hooked to a 4' american wood splitter. The trailer is a boat trailer that I modified to hold 8' cordwood from the woods. The pump ran the loader well and when there was a real heavy chunk the barnes pump would go into low gear and pick it up.

PS. the 22 hp predator motors are out in the ocean so it may be 6 months before you see one in a store to buy.
 The loader pictured was before I started modifying it.

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Re: jms 900 sr
« Reply #38 on: September 28, 2021, 11:18:27 AM »
i love it ed.  

unfortunately i missed the window to get a swivel and grapple for pre-covid money.  now theyre as much as a whole crane probably was a few years back. 


for anyone with a hydraulic crane wanting to add a winch, the absolute cheapest way is to add a load bearing hydraulic motor meant for zero turns, with a 5 lug rim.  just mount the motor and a rim, plumb it and fish the line through a fairly and youve got your winch.  no freewheel but you can easily uncoil loops over the side of the rim.  

with a generic DC winch remote controlling a DC spool valve you can have remote control too.  
Isaiah 63:10

Offline 47sawdust

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Re: jms 900 sr
« Reply #39 on: September 28, 2021, 07:15:00 PM »
Mike,
You make it sound so easy :D
Mick
1997 WM Lt30 1999 WM twin blade edger Kubota L3750 Tajfun winchGood Health Work is my hobby.

Offline logman81

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Re: jms 900 sr
« Reply #40 on: September 28, 2021, 10:28:36 PM »
He sure does but im one heck of a good fabricator and mechanic.
Precision Firewood & Logging

Offline logman81

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Re: jms 900 sr
« Reply #41 on: September 28, 2021, 10:33:11 PM »
Last time I bought a HF motor was a 11hp to replace my blown up Husky splitter and it was on my doorstep in about three weeks. That was the beginning of last year so idk maybe it won't take as long as 6 months?
Precision Firewood & Logging

Online mike_belben

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Re: jms 900 sr
« Reply #42 on: September 29, 2021, 08:05:49 AM »
Mike,
You make it sound so easy :D
Like anything else i guess, the more often you fool with it the easier it gets.  Finding time is the hardest part. 
Isaiah 63:10


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