E-Classic Ka-Boom

Hackberry · December 08, 2008, 06:47:08 PM

Hello all, Got my E classic on the 4th of Dec. It has been running great till last night. Last night I went out to reload her, the water temp. was 186, I pulled the air by-pass and Ka-Boom. I looked up at the rain cap and it was 4'-5' above the stack and down it came onto the concrete. It scared the crap out of me. I have the standard chimmney and have good dry and split wood. I have not installed the paper clip as it has not been burnning out. I called the dealer and he was going to call Central, but i have not got an answer yet. Any ideas? P.S. I need a new rain cap.

antos_ketcham · December 08, 2008, 07:06:11 PM

Quote from: Hackberry on December 08, 2008, 06:47:08 PM
Hello all, Got my E classic on the 4th of Dec. It has been running great till last night. Last night I went out to reload her, the water temp. was 186, I pulled the air by-pass and Ka-Boom. I looked up at the rain cap and it was 4'-5' above the stack and down it came onto the concrete. It scared the crap out of me. I have the standard chimmney and have good dry and split wood. I have not installed the paper clip as it has not been burnning out. I called the dealer and he was going to call Central, but i have not got an answer yet. Any ideas? P.S. I need a new rain cap.

Yikes. I have the E-Classic too. Never had that happen, but I don't have a cap. From all I have read and heard, you shouldn't have a cap. The restrict what little draft there is already and tend to gum up with creosote. They also deflect smoke towards the ground causing more issues with smoke dispersal.

A couple of suggestions:

1) Lose the cap and don't replace it. Here is what Maine DEP says about caps on OWBs. "Removing rain-caps from the stack, if allowed by the manufacturer, will let the smoke rise better, and new installations must be without rain-caps unless required by the manufacturer. If a spark arrestor is required, ask for one that does not include a solid top."

2) Always wait until your stove has been idling for awhile and reload then. If you try to open it when it is running or just recently shut off you can get an explosion from the gases reigniting - probably what happened to you. I have had a mini version of this at the door when I opened it after it had just shut down.

I am in the process of setting up a wireless temp. probe so I can tell when it is just about to switch back on and go load it then - thus saving me trips outside just to check to see if I can load it.

Good Luck.

Pete

stumper · December 08, 2008, 08:12:15 PM

Please, please do not base any decision on what Maine says. The rules and law was pushed through by a few people with limited experience and very limited input from people experienced in OWB.

Maine is the most heavily forested state, but has such tight restrictions that many have avoided installing OWB.

It cost me thousands of dollars more and cost many people businesses and jobs. The rule benifits the those in urban areas where a few users acted inappropriately, but have very limited benifits to those in rural area. Instead of addressing the problem few they cost the vast majority a lot.

Example, if I were just a little closer to my neighbor I would need 30 + feet of chimney. Namely I would need to have my chimney above his roof even though he is up hill and up wind (prevailing wind) from me. How do you keep 30 feet of chiney upright? Big Bucks. Want to shut down for a summer vaction? 200 bucks fro a bucket truck to cap you chimney and another 200 of uncap. So instead you leave an sudge fire burning (poluting) all summer.

By the way I am an engineer and worked for the State of Maine, directly protecting the environment and resources of the state for 12 years.

ronwood · December 08, 2008, 09:25:29 PM

Hackberry,

I bet that you re-lit the gases that were in the chamber. I have the Central Boiler Classic 5648 and if you open the door 10 seconds after it shuts off you will get a rather large flame at the door.

Ron

Paul_H · December 08, 2008, 09:29:22 PM

I'll bet it was too,you probably had a "woodgas " explosion

antos_ketcham · December 09, 2008, 05:49:45 AM

Quote from: stumper on December 08, 2008, 08:12:15 PM
Please, please do not base any decision on what Maine says. The rules and law was pushed through by a few people with limited experience and very limited input from people experienced in OWB.

Maine is the most heavily forested state, but has such tight restrictions that many have avoided installing OWB.

It cost me thousands of dollars more and cost many people businesses and jobs. The rule benefits the those in urban areas where a few users acted inappropriately, but have very limited benefits to those in rural area. Instead of addressing the problem few they cost the vast majority a lot.

Example, if I were just a little closer to my neighbor I would need 30 + feet of chimney. Namely I would need to have my chimney above his roof even though he is up hill and up wind (prevailing wind) from me. How do you keep 30 feet of chiney upright? Big Bucks. Want to shut down for a summer vaction? 200 bucks fro a bucket truck to cap you chimney and another 200 of uncap. So instead you leave an sudge fire burning (poluting) all summer.

By the way I am an engineer and worked for the State of Maine, directly protecting the environment and resources of the state for 12 years.

Paul -

I was not suggesting that anyone follow the full Maine DEP regs. I appreciate what you are saying as we have heavy restrictions in VT that limit our choices for OWBs we can purchase. I ended up replacing my 5036 with an E-Classic - it was my only choice. The good news is that VT DEP at least got rid of the stack height requirements for the new EPA approved OWB's - but nonetheless, we have heavy restrictions and limited choice.

However, they do make a good point about caps on OWBs and my experience with my OWBs validates their statement about caps and smoke dispersal.

Pete

woodmills1 · December 10, 2008, 05:41:47 PM

I have singed the hairs on the front of my head more than once.............

OneWithWood · December 10, 2008, 08:31:08 PM

Don't need to trim my beard in the winter at all

MudBud · December 11, 2008, 10:54:52 PM

I will try and post a pic of a different style cap that my dealer has made for him, pretty inexpensive, stainless and acts like a venturi for the exhaust. I am in Maine and only run 2 sections with the cap on top. Works really well.

Hackberry · December 13, 2008, 03:44:22 PM

My dealer got back to me the next day and Central told him that I re-lit the gases in the chamber and to wait till the temp was in the low 180's to open the by-pass. Also said to leave the cap off. Anyone burnning this stove with the cap? Thanks guys, Hackberry

stumper · December 13, 2008, 07:05:39 PM

Great advise to wait for the ideal time to load wood, if you are retired and have all day to check and recheck for the correct temp. I hope you explained to him that you had a life beyond the boiler.

I have 10 minutes in the morning. I come out start the turck load the boiler and then it is off to work. I can not wait an hour if the temp is not correct.

Heck even my retired father has plenty to do and would not have the time wait an hour to load the boiler.

beenthere · December 13, 2008, 08:36:28 PM

I think just cracking the door a small amount, or opening a draft inlet to allow the concentration of hot gases to escape, will save you from the explosion. At least that works for me. I usually try to load wood when it is below set upper water temp, but if I'm in a hurry....I just crack the door for a second or 10. I don't have the E-Classic, but all the wood stoves can Ka-Boom ;D

It is when I forget to look and it has just recently shut off the air supply, that I open the door quickly and the extra burst of fresh air causes the explosion. It is sudden, but over quickly. However, the down side is it sets off the smoke/gas alarms. ;D ;D ;D

Part of the learning curve when operating a stove that burns wood.

antos_ketcham · December 14, 2008, 07:13:22 PM

Quote from: stumper on December 13, 2008, 07:05:39 PM
Great advise to wait for the ideal time to load wood, if you are retired and have all day to check and recheck for the correct temp. I hope you explained to him that you had a life beyond the boiler.

I have 10 minutes in the morning. I come out start the turck load the boiler and then it is off to work. I can not wait an hour if the temp is not correct.

Heck even my retired father has plenty to do and would not have the time wait an hour to load the boiler.

I may have the answer to this - a wireless digital thermometer that can tell you what your temps are on both supply and return lines. Check it out - http://www.bbqoutfitters.com/redicheck-remote-smoker-thermometer-p-218.html

This should at least help minimize trips out to the stove only to find that it just shut off and is not safe to load or is running and also hard to load.

Pete

logwalker · December 15, 2008, 11:46:12 AM

Pete, I couldn't find the range that the thermometer covers. Do you know?

antos_ketcham · December 15, 2008, 07:52:50 PM

Quote from: logwalker on December 15, 2008, 11:46:12 AM
Pete, I couldn't find the range that the thermometer covers. Do you know?

I don't know exactly, but should be broad enough to cover the CB. I'll keep you posted after mine is online.

Pete

al77 · December 27, 2008, 08:25:40 PM

You opened the door too soon after the damper closed it sounds. I have a cb 4030 and the only time it has done anything like that is when I opened the door right after the damper had closed one time.

Once you have had the stove a while you should get more used to it. I used to use an indoor wood stove and while there are a lot of things in common, the boiler is a lot different.

Now I make sure I look at the temp gauge and open the door a lot more slowly- with my face away. sometimes you have to just wait a few minutes to open it. You will learn this quickly.

When it is really cold enough to run the heat the furnace seems to open the damper about 5-10 min after the central air fan cuts off. I go out there and give it a minute or two after the damper opens to catch back up then load it up. I typically get at least 20-24 hrs from a fill in cold weather. However I live in va and our heating demands can vary greatly from day to day, a few times it has gone 48 hrs on a fill.

JJ · December 27, 2008, 11:34:21 PM

my E-Classic temp range allowed by computer is 150 to 190F.
not low enough to let fan idle, so i will be re-wireing mine to have outlet which is not switched by boiler master switch (I will wire e-Classic to be plug in model, and supply to OWB will be outlet).

JJ

stumper · December 28, 2008, 07:32:01 AM

I just did some additional wiring on mine. Added an unswitched outlet prior to the boiler so that I could switch the blower off but keep the pump running. This was so that I could take a winter vacation.

With the rewiring you propose where will the switch be? It would seem like a big pain to take off a back panel to flip a switch then wait ten minute for it to cool to feed the boiler. Have you considered rewiring the light switch on the control box. Those lights are useless I never even touch that switch. For me I could switch that switch fill the wheel barrel and then roll my wood to the boiler. It would be even better if you could switch it from in the house. My concern with all of that is someone (ME!!!!) flipping the switch and not flipping it back because there mind was elsewhere.

thecfarm · December 28, 2008, 08:08:24 AM

Could you wire that switch so when it was in the off position a light would come on? This way you would know there was no power going to the blowers.

dewwood · January 01, 2009, 12:41:23 PM

I don't have a CB but my Heatmoor comes with a switch and an exterior light. Just flip the switch and the light comes on and the blowers are off, the light is visible when the door is closed so it is easy to spot if you inadvertantly forget to flip the switch back on for the blowers.

As far as gases reigniting I think everyone has experienced that surprise(note less eyebrows and chin wiskers). I have found it far less likely to occur if the fuel is burned down so with experience you will learn how much fuel to load into the furnace based on outside temps etc. I have only experienced the blowout when there was a lot of fuel left in the furnace so I only load what I think will be necessary until next fuel time.

MyOutdoors · January 01, 2009, 07:53:06 PM

I just had that happen to me last night when I was video taping the smoke ammount going into gasification on my E-3300 Sequoya. I'll have to upload it on you tube and post it. Scared the crap out of me. I shut down the fan for a minute and then clicked it back on and BOOM! I do have a cap on mine and will probably remove it while in use and put it back on during the off season.