big hickory log on electric wires

[Polly]

 8)  last july i ask the local electric about cutting some trees that were close to electric wires their was three different reps here i showed them the ones that needed cutting and marked with a red ribbon they left one hickory log will be about 20feet 20plus inch in dia i figured they were done and the hickory could be safely cut by you wnow ho  the  electry co left a couple hours ago after putting wires back up do you all think you know ho should be held resp  :( :( ;) 8)

[Ironwood]

Is this a trick question? Ironwood

[chevytaHOE5674]

If I am interpreting correctly the Power company trimmed a few trees and then left. You came along and assumed it was safe to drop them and in the process you took down some wires?

[pigman]

I was told by the power company that if a tree fell  from an act of nature on their wires then it was their problem. If I cut or pushed a tree on their wires then it would be my problem. :(

[Polly]

 8)   thats right i notched the cut so tree would fall north east the wind caught it and took it south it cleaned the two electric lines on a spur line the top of the tree was dead and electric co looked at it and apparently thought it would stand my reason for cutting it was a log probly 20 ft long 20inch plus in dia after telling them about it three times and asking them to cut it before it rotted down i do not think i should be responsable for the cost of putting the wires back up am i right or rong  8)

[chevytaHOE5674]

Having worked for power companies, you are in the wrong and should/will have to foot the bill. If you were incapable of dropping the tree then you should have hired a tree service to do such.

Up here the PC's responsibility is not to get it to the point that you can drop it, their responsibility is to get the proper line clearance needed. 

[logwalker]

Since you flagged the trees and showed them to the reps it is likely they might let you get away with this one. Try to reason with them. Joe

[Banjo picker]

Have you ever thought of selling your chain saw on ebay, with no reserve? :D  ;D Tim

[DanG]

Having worked for power companies, you are in the wrong and should/will have to foot the bill. If you were incapable of dropping the tree then you should have hired a tree service to do such.

The PC's responsibility is not to get it to the point that you can drop it, their responsibility is to get the proper line clearance needed. 

What the hell does you having worked for a power company have to do with whether he was right or wrong? ??? :  The PC crew was wrong to have left a dead tree where it could hit the line if it fell in any direction, for whatever reason.  They did half-ass work by leaving the snag too high.  They were probably contractors working on the cheap.  Our Co-op has their own tree crew, and also hires contractors.  The Co-op guys cut the tree to the ground, and the contractors leave just as much of it as they THINK they can get away with.

The power companies are protected monopolies with a guaranteed income, and Eminate Domain rights.  As such, they are obligated to serve the public, and to protect the public from the dangers that are inherent to the nature of their business.  Leaving a hazardous tree in proximity to a power line for a landowner to deal with, especially when their crew was already on site does not meet their obligations.  They're just lucky that nobody got killed or injured.

[DanG]

Have you ever thought of selling your chain saw on ebay, with no reserve? :D  ;D Tim

Have you ever thought about selling your keyboard on ebay, with no reserve?

[Ron Scott]

Nornally you would be responsible for falling the tree over the power lines and the cost of the line's repair unless you had some prior agreement with the power company to fall the tree with their acknowledgement.

[Banjo picker]

Dang , whats your problem, you might notice I put a smiley and a grin after mine, I didn't see that from you.  I kind of respected your opinion before, not so much now.  Tim.

[chevytaHOE5674]

What the hell does you having worked for a power company have to do with whether he was right or wrong? ??? :  The PC crew was wrong to have left a dead tree where it could hit the line if it fell in any direction, for whatever reason.  They did half-ass work by leaving the snag too high.  They were probably contractors working on the cheap.  Our Co-op has their own tree crew, and also hires contractors.  The Co-op guys cut the tree to the ground, and the contractors leave just as much of it as they THINK they can get away with.

The power companies are protected monopolies with a guaranteed income, and Eminate Domain rights.  As such, they are obligated to serve the public, and to protect the public from the dangers that are inherent to the nature of their business.  Leaving a hazardous tree in proximity to a power line for a landowner to deal with, especially when their crew was already on site does not meet their obligations.  They're just lucky that nobody got killed or injured.

I did forestry ROW work. Had to deal with a multiple customers dropping trees on the lines. We had no regulations as to specifically dealing with dead trees in the ROW. Or goals are get the proper clearance and remove any hazard trees when doing routine maintance. When a customers calls and complains we had to go inspect and then proceed further. If there was something that needed immediate attention it was tended to (in this case it was trimmed out to get clearance). Then it could and usually would be left to be removed when the circuit came up for routine maintaince. 

I didn't read where the OP said the tree was a immediate hazard? His circuit could have been up for routine work this spring and it would have been delt with then.

Edit: Here it was up the forester as to what work was done when. In this case the tree would have been safe until a further date had the OP not got near it with his chainsaw.

A few pictures of the tree would clear this right up I'm guessing.

[rebocardo]

> am i right or rong

Unfortunately, wrong.

Hope you are not in GA, they actually have a law against that and if you hit a 760v (?) high power line it is close to $10,000 fine or something like that. You might want to start practicing  the meek and groveling act, without the line "can I keep the wood"  ;)

[DanG]

Banjo, your post seemed to me to be ridiculing the man for having made an error in felling a tree.  The ForestryForum is about learning and teaching, not making fun of someone's misfortune.  If I read it wrong, I apologize.  

Chevytahoe, the crew obviously didn't accomplish their goal of getting safe clearance.  While cutting trees was not my job, I worked for a public utility and carried an IBEW card for 34 years.  I think I have a pretty good idea of what their goals and obligations are.  Those of us who managed to stay there that long, pretty much adopted the idea that if we provided them with good service, they would provide us with a paycheck.  Those who viewed the customers as the enemy usually didn't last very long.

[Warbird]

Have you ever thought of selling your chain saw on ebay, with no reserve? :D  ;D Tim

Have you ever thought about selling your keyboard on ebay, with no reserve?

I hope this boils down to just a simple misunderstanding.  Regardless, that was DanG funny. 

[chevytaHOE5674]

Before the original poster took his chainsaw to the tree I will bet they had their minimum legal clearance. I'm also betting that with proper rigging, the tree could have been put on the ground.

When it comes to ROW work here we only have so many crews and some work takes priority. From what i gather of this situation the crew did as they should for being out on run call. The rest of the "hazard" would have been removed come routine maintenance. I left plenty of dead stems standing (that customers complained about) that were perfectly sound to be removed during regular maintenance rotations.

You also have to look at what the easement says about tree removal. We have plenty of easements that specifically say "NO REMOVALS" so we top them below the lines even if that leaves nothing but a bare stem.

[DanG]

"Minimum legal" means "as poorly as the law will allow."  I don't think that fits the guidelines that a business that can force its will on the public must operate under.  Sometimes there is a difference between strict legalities, and right and wrong.  In our State, it is always incumbent on a public utility to err on the side of right.  They enjoy their monopoly in exchange for a guaranteed profit, so if their expenses are high, they make more money.  I don't see any room in that concept for shoddy tree work.  If the work load is too high, they're getting paid to hire more tree whackers, so they have no excuse, IMHO.

[chevytaHOE5674]

Then you haven't seen mosts budgets for "tree whackers". If we get bad storms a few seasons in a row it gets expensive. We can't raise rates because tree work goes up, we don't get more $$ from your bill when tree work goes up. We get a few bad storms on top of routine maintenance and our budget is drying up. Our tree crews expenses rise, and they pass it onto us, but we can't immediately pass that on to the customer so we are forced to eat the costs.

Regardless when trees are around power leave them be and get qualified crews in to deal with them unless you are 200000% confident. Power is dangerous and kills. Heck even try calling the PC back, I've been known on occasion to scratch a customers back and have tree work done that we don't have to do when they are nice and cooperative with other tree work on the easement. 

Edit: there are also customers that read their easements and if it says 10'. Then they will be out there measuring 10' so that we take no more than is legal. So if that means leaving stubs and junk that is "shoddy" then thats what we are forced to do.

[DanG]

We seem to be getting away from the subject a little bit.  In this case, it wasn't a problem of the trees encroaching on the lines.  It was a matter of some trees the landowner needed to remove, and the lines were in his way.  I'm thinking that the arborist or forester or tree whacker or whatever he was, left the snag too high, or the thing couldn't have fallen into the power line.  His boss sent him out there to do a job, and it looks to me like he half-assed it, given the info we have to go on.  I fully understand the necessity for keeping the trees from growing into the lines, and that some landowners can be a pain in the butt, but that doesn't seem to be the case here.  I know Polly to be a man of great humility, and I doubt that he would have bothered them in the first place if it wasn't necessary.  If that had been one of our power crews, they would have taken the thing down to the ground and bucked the log to his specs.

[Ironwood]

I now understand the original posting.

OK, well I am qualified for NOTHING, absolutely nothing. Seems the moment you fired up the saw it became your issue. I am big on personal responsibility. I have loads of tools and equipment and can do just about anything around here, BUT should I? As I have aged I have become "a little wiser" and opted out of many things "I could do" in favor of the approach "should I do or attempt" Try to humbly ask for forgiveness, and hopfully they will work with you, but ultimately it was you who cut it.

IMHO, mileage wll vary, Ironwood

[chevytaHOE5674]

Your PC must have lots of extra cash floating around. Between Ice storms, feet of snow, and strong winds our emergency tree work budget (which this would fall under) is just about gone. If there was no sparking or arching in the wires or immediate widow maker branches over the lines we would have most likely left it.

Just because a customer wants a tree removed around power doesn't make it the PC's responsibility. We will usually (not always) come out and get 100% top clearance, then good side clearance and then let the homeowner's tree crew of choice deal with it in cases where the HO wants it down and the circuit isn't up for scheduled work. There are many independent line clearance certified tree workers that do that type of work for customers.

IMO/ IME if it took the homeowners chainsaw to drop the tree then it wasn't a imminent threat to the lines therefor it would be his responsibility around here. To me it seems the crew removed limbs/trunk over top of the wires that were an immediate threat and left the "log" on the side as it met their spec for clearance and didn't pose an immediate danger. Which to me sounds acceptable for a customer call up/complaint.   

[mike_van]

After 35 years as a PC lineman, I can't count the number of times I had to deal with this. MOST of the time, going out on a call where a customer had took wire down with a tree, we'd cover it up, just tell the dispatcher "dead tree fell on wire" Nobody got billed then. A few times though, just the attitude of the homeowner caused it to be called in for what it was.  Many times too, I'd turn in a 'danger tree' that you just knew was going down someday only to be told by management "it's cheaper to put the wire back up than remove that tree"  A bunch of us spent one cold Christmas eve in the r.o.w. on our hooks putting 2/0 copper back up after a tree I'd turned in the prev. spring finally fell over.  Sometimes, with any big company, the 'bottom line' is all thats important - They like to talk the talk to the news & public utility commission, but in the end, it didn't matter a thousand people were out of power  Christmas eve, as long as they didn't have to pay a crew to take that tree down.

[Polly]

 :)my point is i gave the right of way to power co , the log had commercal value to me ,the log left standing would have rotted down and during a ice storm wiped out the lines ,i notified power co of the circumstance ,contract crew for power came and trimed some trees ,i told the crew to cut this tree ,it was already dead down about 30 ft from the top ,i also told them anything they left would be safe for me to cut ,personally when you give anyone a right of way through a stand of timber i think they should work with you to salvage the timber in this case around 1000 dollars worth all togather  i think the local power  co will accept responsability for this i was wondering what you all thought  dont bother looking for two sthel chain saws on e bay they will not be their  :D :D :D 8) 8) 8)

[farmerdoug]

Was the tree in the utility ROW?

Around here if it outside of the ROW they will not touch it.  If mother nature knocks it over they will repair but if you do it you pay.