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Author Topic: C4 Tree Farmer Info  (Read 22737 times)

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Offline GUEDOZ

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C4 Tree Farmer Info
« on: June 19, 2011, 11:57:09 PM »
I have a Can-Car Garrett Tree Farmer C4. Bad part is that the factory nameplate is missing and without that Franklin can give me no info. I would really like to find a service manual for it but those are hard to come by. I do know after several years of info gathering, that is has a Ford Industrial 192 Gas engine, and a Gearmatic 9 cable winch ( I found and downloaded a great manual for the winch). I am guessing it is around a 1964/1965 year. My grandfather picked it up back in the mid 80's and ran it until the mid 90's. After he passed away back in 2001, it sat for about five years. A few years ago I got it running again and she is still plugging along. I am looking for any input on year and manuals anyone has. I saw one on Ebay about two years ago and it was sold soon after. I have uploaded a few photos, and being new with it, I hope they are viewable. Any Info??
David Baker

Offline mad murdock

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Re: C4 Tree Farmer Info
« Reply #1 on: June 20, 2011, 01:36:40 AM »
A belated welcome to the Forestry Forum is in order!  I have a 1964 Garrett Tree Farmer model 15A, it is similar to your machine, but has the 172 Diesel rather than the 192 Gasser. I have a Ford Factory manual that I got off the site manuals.us  .  I found a model 15 parts catalog off craigslist a few weeks ago, and even came across a retired diesel mechanic who had a Roosa Master DB series injection pump manual that I was able to copy.  I started a thread a while back about Garrett skidder support, and there is some good info on that thread.  If there is some specific item that you need, post your need on the forum, and someone will come along with the info.  You can check out my photo gallery for some pics of my machine.  I just got it going again after some major engine work.
http://www.forestryforum.com/board/index.php/topic,44818.0.html  the link to the Garrett Skidder support thread.
I hope that this helps.  Got to keep the old Iron going.  I love my skidder 8)
Turbosawmill M6 (now M8) Warrior Ultra liteweight, Granberg Alaskan III, lots of saws-gas powered and human powered :D

Offline ga jones

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Re: C4 Tree Farmer Info
« Reply #2 on: June 21, 2011, 03:51:06 PM »
I cant veiw your photos .the pic thats on your profile i looks like a can-car not a garret.I have A manual for it with the ford gas engine.need better pic for guess on year. Franklin will be no help for you. If you need parts davco is where you need to go.
380c timberjack c4 treefarmer international trucks jonsered saws. Sugi hara bars d31 komatsu 350 tj grapple

Offline GUEDOZ

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Re: C4 Tree Farmer Info
« Reply #3 on: June 22, 2011, 12:30:53 AM »
[img]

[img] http://www.forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/17969/2034/DSCF4221.JPG
Thanks guys. Maybe this photo will work out. You're right GA, it is a CanCar but it still has the Garrett nameplate on it as well as the CanCar nameplate. After researching a bit, it appears that this one may have been built during the transitional time between Can Car and Garrett. I live about 1.5 miles from Davco and they are great for parts. I was looking for general info or a manual to use as a guideline for the skidder as a whole. I like researching this but information is sometimes a little difficult to find. I will look up the Ford manual. I did find a nice manual for the Marvel-Schebler carb online, and after a rebuild on the carb it is running much better. I will be looking at a motor rebuild in the next few years as it is burning oil right now. A local mechanic who is familiar with older tractor/skidder/dozer engines thinks the valve seats/guides are original and don't really care for the unleaded gas. It is a great little skidder for the weekend warrior cutting and hauling I do.
David Baker

Offline GUEDOZ

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Re: C4 Tree Farmer Info
« Reply #4 on: June 22, 2011, 12:34:44 AM »
GA, I would be really interested in a copy of that manual. Let me know how we could work that out. :P
David Baker

Offline ga jones

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Re: C4 Tree Farmer Info
« Reply #5 on: June 22, 2011, 09:17:52 PM »
that machine is much different than a typical c4 it may be a c3. my manual may not serve you on the chasis but i do have the ford engine one pm your adress i will copy it and mail it to you.
380c timberjack c4 treefarmer international trucks jonsered saws. Sugi hara bars d31 komatsu 350 tj grapple

Offline GUEDOZ

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Re: C4 Tree Farmer Info
« Reply #6 on: June 22, 2011, 09:42:22 PM »
I may stand corrected on the C4. I am going by some photos I have a seen and some of the research I have done, to conclude that it is a C4. It very well could be a C3, I just haven't seen many photos of this particular machine. I have a magazine ad I purchased on ebay for the C4 model and from what it looks like, they appear to be very similar. Again, the nameplate is missing so I don't really know. I may be able to take some photos into Davco and see what info they could give me. Thanks for the great input, this is what I was looking for. You guys here on the forum definitely have more knowledge about it than I do.
David Baker

Offline John Woodworth

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Re: C4 Tree Farmer Info
« Reply #7 on: June 27, 2011, 09:47:43 PM »
Aside for the grill,hood and roll cage it's identical to a Garrett 15, same frame, winch and arch, 4spd. with reverser , what is the steering cylinder arrangement?
Two Garret 21 skidders, Garret 10 skidder, 580 Case Backhoe, Mobile Dimension sawmill, 066, 046 mag, 044, 036mag, 034, 056 mag, 075, 026, lewis winch

Offline mad murdock

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Re: C4 Tree Farmer Info
« Reply #8 on: June 29, 2011, 12:15:10 PM »
Guedoz,
on the left fwd frame rail, on the top flange there should be a factory stamped model and serial #.  It near the battery location by the front guard, if it was built by Garrett for Can-Car it should be there.
Turbosawmill M6 (now M8) Warrior Ultra liteweight, Granberg Alaskan III, lots of saws-gas powered and human powered :D

Offline SBeange

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Re: C4 Tree Farmer Info
« Reply #9 on: June 13, 2012, 09:58:09 AM »
* The photo of the C4 shows what appears to be a pre B series. I have seen a C5 with a similar style.
* Can-Car built Tree Farmer's under licence from Garrett starting in 1961 and all 3 names appeared on the machines - Garrett, Can-Car and Tree Farmer. As the Can-Car machines were manufactured in Fort William (now Thunder Bay) Ontario only, I think it safe to conclude that any machine with Can-Car on it was manufactured there. Garrett retained manufacturing rights and the Tree Farmer name for the North Western US. And his machines bore a resemblence to those produce by Can-Car.
* Can-Car produce 4 models initially - C1, C2, C3 and C4 with only the C4 equipped with planetary axles. These first machines were virtually identical to Garrett produced machines.
* The B series introduced by 1964 were significantly different than the one in the picture. And B series featured a round tube non adjustable fairlead. The B series C3, C4, C5 and C6 all looked the same, except for optional front / rear winches on the C3 and C4.
* When Can-Car introduced the C series in 1967 the Garrett name disappeared from their machines.

Offline lumberjack48

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Re: C4 Tree Farmer Info
« Reply #10 on: June 13, 2012, 11:37:08 AM »
I bought this C4 in 68, it had all 3 names on it, they were stickers. Just above the tree it had a Garrett sticker, below the tree was Can-Car and on the hood Treefarmer

 

 
Third generation logger, owner operator, 30 yrs felling experience with pole skidder. I got my neck broke back in 89, left me a quad. The wife kept the job going up to 96.

Offline SBeange

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Re: C4 Tree Farmer Info
« Reply #11 on: June 13, 2012, 03:16:06 PM »
lumberjack48

I was in error. The new Can-Car C series was introduced sometime in 1968 and I believe with them the Garrett name disappeared.

First generation Can-Car Tree Farmers often had the Can-Car and or Garrett name molded into the frame material. Either the butt plate or the side of or the front of the radiator guard.

What engine is in yours? They often displayed the word DIESEL for those so equipped.


Offline lumberjack48

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Re: C4 Tree Farmer Info
« Reply #12 on: June 13, 2012, 05:02:50 PM »
This is why i said it was a sticker, thats the only place it said Garrett.

This had the Ford gas engine [ 72 hp ] nice little skidder. In good timber you could pull 30 cds a day with it. I wish i had a 100 of-em to sell right now.

This is like the skidder they called the pulpwood special, with a C5B sticker. I knew a few guys that bought these in including me. When i went out and looked at it and told them it was a C4 not a C5, they'd show me the sticker, it says right here its a C5B. The thing is they though they were buying a C5, when its a complete C4 running gear. The only thing thats C5, is the sticker, 353 Detroit and the model 20 Can-Car [Gearmatic] winch.
Third generation logger, owner operator, 30 yrs felling experience with pole skidder. I got my neck broke back in 89, left me a quad. The wife kept the job going up to 96.

Online snowstorm

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Re: C4 Tree Farmer Info
« Reply #13 on: June 13, 2012, 07:52:33 PM »
was there a tree farmer with a small winch mounted behind the seat? hauled wood off a job that had one 20yrs ago.

Offline lumberjack48

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Re: C4 Tree Farmer Info
« Reply #14 on: June 14, 2012, 06:09:11 PM »
I think this is a true Garrett with the winch behind the seat, the 10, 15, and the 20. Then the Treefarmer put the winch with the arch. I believe this is a way to tell the difference between the older ones. But don't take this to the bank, I'm not real sure.
Third generation logger, owner operator, 30 yrs felling experience with pole skidder. I got my neck broke back in 89, left me a quad. The wife kept the job going up to 96.

Offline SBeange

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Re: C4 Tree Farmer Info
« Reply #15 on: June 16, 2012, 02:47:46 PM »
Some questions for Guedox re your Can-Car C4 as in the picture.

Your response to the following questions will shed considerable light on my understanding
a. What engine? ie make, cid, fuel type
b. Where is the hydraulic pump located?
c. Where is the hydraulic oil tank located?
d. Do the blade cylinder hoses pass through the frame or the engine opening?
e. Is the fuel tank located under the seat? from side to side?
f. Does the hood open upwards?
g. Is there a transfer case? 2 speed?, reversing?

Thank you for any info you can provide.

Scott

Offline SBeange

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Re: Tree Farmer Info
« Reply #16 on: June 16, 2012, 04:59:11 PM »
Snowstorm,

Can-Car made Tree Farmers with winches mounted on the front frame for several years. The introductory models until the end of the B series. During the B series rear mounted winches appeared as optional on the C3 and 4 or standard on the C5 and 6.

The Can-Car intro models, C 1,2,3 and 4 were almost identical to those produced by Garrett and displayed the Garrett name along with the Can-Car name.

I think they purposefully made it confusing!!

Scott

Offline lumberjack48

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Re: C4 Tree Farmer Info
« Reply #17 on: June 16, 2012, 05:32:03 PM »
a. Ford Industrial 172, 4 cylinder, gas, burned about 8 gal. a day
b. Hyd. pump is driven off damper wheel, mounted under radiator
c. Hyd. tank is under the seat
d. Hyd hoses pass through the frame
e. Fuel tank is under the winch
f. Yes, hood opens upwards with steel 3/8" rod to hold it open
g. Yes, Hi & Lo range transfer case, with reversing
h. Model 9 Gearmatic with in & out shift on top of transfer case
i. 16:9 -30 tires

I could average a cord a turn with it, pulled good with front chains. Did good with out chains, but its so light with out chains your spinning the tires and hard to deck with. I found it easer on the machine with chains and about double the production.
Third generation logger, owner operator, 30 yrs felling experience with pole skidder. I got my neck broke back in 89, left me a quad. The wife kept the job going up to 96.

Offline GUEDOZ

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Re: C4 Tree Farmer Info
« Reply #18 on: June 17, 2012, 09:16:05 AM »
Goodmorning Guedoz,

Can you provide some detail re your C4 skidder that you posted a picture of.

a. What engine? ie make, cid, fuel type
Ford Industrial 192 CID gasoline

b. Where is the hydraulic pump located? And how is it powered? How is it accessed?
In front of engine compartment, belt drive from front of engine, I believe it can be accessed from the side opening of thje engine compartment.

c. Where is the hydraulic oil tank located?
Front right side of the engine compartment

d. Do the blade cylinder hoses pass through the frame or the engine opening?
Hoses pass through the frame

e. Is the fuel tank located under the seat? from side to side?
Fuel tank is under the seat and supports the seat and does go from side to side.

f. Does the hood open upwards?
Hood opens upward and hines at the back.

g. Is there a transfer case? 2 speed?, reversing?
the transfer case is a 2 speed reversing.

The 192 CID deduction comes from the ID sticker on the valve cover. It does show 192 but from what I've read the ford 172/192 industrial engines were almost identical so it is possible that the valve cover has been rplaced and has incorrect information on it. It runs a marval schebler updraft carb.

The winch is a gearmatic 9 mounted on the front section ( not on the arch), behind the seat and the control lever and reservior are mounted on top of the winch housing. The winch is chain drive powered off the transfer case.

Thanks for the info and help,
David

David Baker

Offline lumberjack48

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Re: C4 Tree Farmer Info
« Reply #19 on: June 17, 2012, 09:57:56 PM »
For god sake i know its not mounted on the arch, its mounted on the rear section, the same as the arch.

The winch is shaft driven, not chain driven.

The control is mounted on right hand side of the seat.

The hyd pump is shaft driven off the front of engine, 4 bolts on damper.

Hyd reservoir is under driver seat

Fuel tank is in rear section under the winch

Engine had a medal tag marked Ford Industrial 172
Third generation logger, owner operator, 30 yrs felling experience with pole skidder. I got my neck broke back in 89, left me a quad. The wife kept the job going up to 96.


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