Weeping Willow

[Al_Smith]

Oh yes indeed a cottonwood can grow huge .I've got a hundred footer too darned close to the house but luckily it's got a lean away from the house .It's around 4.5 feet .

Darned thing is starting to loose bark up high so it's got to go .I'll cable that monster because I certainly don't want it atop the house .Several cables as a matter of fact .

[SwampDonkey]

Yup they are, 6-8 feet across well over 150 feet tall. Massive. Some places they can't cut them because it's hard to reforest near the main river. The black cottonwood just over take it. That's a lot milder winter out there than here and more water. Around here they only grow about 30 inches and maybe 80 feet. So a heck of a lot bigger. And one big town tree don't make it the norm. I can take you to groves of'm.

[Okrafarmer]

Everything's bigger out west!

[SwampDonkey]

Just remembered up at Bath there was one huge eastern cottonwood in town that was at least 6 feet through practically in the road. They had to get the thing out of there. There are a couple on the university grounds to that are huge. But them things are not native here in NB.

Just use the tool box and compare the wood in the cottonwoods I mentioned to the balsam poplar size I mentioned and it's way more wood. ;D

[Al_Smith]

Rambling on about cottonwood some trivia .During the building of the transcontinetal railroad obviously the traditional cross tie was oak .

Now as it turned out in some of the midwestern states oak was just not to be found but cottonwood abounded .Lousy choice for ties but they had no other choice it was all they had .Every time they came near a river or creek the big trees were every where .

Somebody came up with the bright idea to brine treat the wood and thusly the original ties where in some cases cottonwood .They were later replaced with oak .

[SwampDonkey]

I don't know if I can swallow it Al. The ties (of oak) could have been easily brought in by the same train hauling the steel rails as the tracks advanced. Just because there were no oak locally, don't mean they was stupid. ;D

[jimparamedic]

I have cut both and what a mess they can make. I have a circular sawmill and when I'd get to about 3' from the end the water would run out by the gallon.The blade throwing wet mushy pulp every where. Other then that it was nice to cut some warping and spliting but dried out fast and made some light wood that was pretty strong for its wieght very flexable. Another wood that is like these is buckeye. Old timers said it was the best loading ramps the wood bends and does not snap like oak. Also again it is very light. Was also told they where used to make molding and to make ink stamp.

[Sarah Duval]

Sorry all this week has been very busy for me. We did cut one section of it and the grain is absoultely beautiful. The unfortunate part is some of it was junk, one section was dead and dried out and the other section is like saw dust. I did notice when cutting thinner boards the water would run like a wave on top of the lumber about an inch in front of the blade. I didn't get a chance to take some pics but I will definately do that this week.

[Okrafarmer]

Yeah, you'll find with any species:

1. There will be some waste from time to time, even in some logs that look decent

2. You can often get some nice looking lumber even out of logs that are partly worthless.

Welcome to milling.  ;D

[Al_Smith]

I don't know if I can swallow it Al. The ties (of oak) could have been easily brought in by the same train hauling the steel rails as the tracks advanced. Just because there were no oak locally, don't mean they was stupid. ;D

Well you don't have to swallow it ,you can spit it out .

Quote from the net on the subject :Where Did The U.P. Get Wood For The Railroad Across Nebraska?
When building the Transcontinental Railroad across the barren Nebraska plains, the Union Pacific Railroad had endless aggravation obtaining railroad ties. The only timber available was the pulpy cottonwood tree, which grew along the edges of Nebraska's rivers and streams. The U.P. made due with this poor choice by preserving the cottonwood tie with a solution of zinc chloride. These treated ties were interspersed with freighted-in oak and cedar ties on a ratio of four "junk" cottonwood ties to one good cedar or oak tie.

8)

[Magicman]

I did notice when cutting thinner boards the water would run like a wave on top of the lumber about an inch in front of the blade. 

You will often see that with "wet" woods such as Poplar, Cypress, etc. and many times it will be out 6" or more in front of the blade.  It's hard to imagine the stress that is taking place inside of a log as we saw.

[hackberry jake]

I love sawing the "wet" woods, they normally cut like butter and the sawdust just falls to the ground in wet clumps. Sycamore is probably my favorite wood to cut for that reason. I know I'm tired of cutting cedar, been working on a 400'+ privacy fence. With all the protective equipment on I look like a storm trooper.

[SwampDonkey]

Quote from the net on the subject

That don't prove much, just because someone wrote it on the net.

You have to look at the Author. Peter Newman, a Czech born Canadian author, wrote lots of history and in his foot notes was tons of research he quoted from to back up what he said, plus almost a whole other book when you added up the footnotes behind some of his quotes. It was as interesting to read the footnotes on about every other page as was the main text of the books. :D But he still got some stuff wrong that might be common knowledge to some and not to him. ;)

[Al_Smith]

 :D Are you being bull headed again as usual ;D You can read several accounts of cottonwood ties .I first read it in a book long before the internet .Maybe every author lied then .

Other facts you'll probabley argue about .The central pacific also supplimented cottonwood ties in a few places .It was a situation where both the union pacific and the central pacific where just about cash broke .They had to complete the line so they could get some revenue coming in .Thus the cheap ties .BTW the all time never beaten until this very day.
10 miles of track layed down in 12 hours by the central pacific .Still a record yet .
--more railroad trivia for doubting Thomas's .--from Al the historian ;D

[SPIKER]

Lodi Ohio where I grew up had cotton woods in the park back when I was a kid.   They were some of the BIGGEST trees around them parts.   If I remember right it took 4 of us kids to form a chain around the biggest one interlocking hands.   that was maybe 3rd or 4th grade.   the last time I was down there there were a few stumps left was it.  They had been cut & removed by the town after a large branch fell :'(...   ya nice park with hardly any trees  : >:(   When I was a kid I remember the park floor would look snow covered from the seeds coming down.

When I was a teen we cut 4 or 5 BIG willows at my Uncles house after one split and went thru his carport smashing his Dodge Dart.
Cutting & attempting to split it was a real pain.   3 or 4 diameter cookies were split using chain saw as a maul would bounce off and spray ya in the face w water...  ???   My Brother in law hammered in 4 or 5 wedges into the same hunk that sucker was a tough one.   the rest were cut into 4 or 5 foot lengths and hauled out somewhere to bury (probably trees growing there now!)

Mark

[sandhills]

We have a lot of those big cottonwoods all around us, and yes they are big, but when most come down they're hollow all the way up from the ground.  They're also horrible around fields, has to be one of the worst branch shedding trees around here anyway, but I still love the looks of them and for the young kids some of the easiest to climb around in, I'm not that young anymore but I once was  .

[Banjo picker]

Yeah but baseball is and we are fast loosing all the ash to make bats from . :(  Unfortunately I somehow doubt if willow would be a good substitute .I suppose they could use hickory or oak but the ball players would have to have arms like Superman to swing them .

Baseball bats should be made of sweetgum anyway....you can't bust one with a wedge hardly...a base ball wouldn't have a chance...Banjo

[Okrafarmer]

Sweetgum, IRC, has a Janka hardness similar to ash. Of course the flex and bounce and break properties are different.

[5quarter]

Al...Regarding cottonwood ties in Nebraska. there is a detailed account at the state historical society down in Lincoln that agrees with your story. Don't know if it's on the internet, but there is a nice wall display with some photos and a nice write up.
   Easern cottonwood I think is the largest hardwood in the US, now that the American chestnut is gone. I have one near the back of my property that is over seven feet across. Strangely, it is wider than it is tall and virtually nothing grows under it in a 30' radius. alot of big cottonwoods around here eventually get wind damaged or lightning struck. The big one out back has been lucky so far.

[SwampDonkey]

Where were the rails coming from is my question? I can bet in oak country. So why not throw some oak ties on the load heading west? Plus you have bur oak that grows in the plains. ;)

What about through northern Ontario by the Great Lakes where there are no cottonwood  beyond a short radius of Erie until the Red river in Manitoba for 1000 miles?

[Al_Smith]

More trivia on the account .The trestles for the railroad obviously could not be made of cotton wood .Oak was felled and floated down various rivers until they got it nearly to the point of usage and timber were milled and hauled to the trestle sights by horse cart .

Yes eastern oak could have been transported for ties but if I read the accounts correctly the vast numbers need dictated the temorary use of cottonwood  to expidite the completion of the rail system .In other words they needed the revenue ASAP .

The accounts do state the cottonwood was only good for several years and it was replaced with more robust tie material .

I didn't write history I only repeat what's been already stated by several accounts . ;)

[SwampDonkey]

Oh, well in that case.....  ;D But bur oak goes further west than most (eastern) white oaks I think. The plains aren't exactly east, but to some east is the other side of the Rockies. I've seen balsam poplar get confused for red oak and ash lumber confused for chestnut just because someone said it was what it was until it was properly identified. ;)