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Bidding on a Few Trees

Started by YellowHammer, September 23, 2012, 11:17:40 PM

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YellowHammer

As a small time sawmiller I occasionally get asked by customers what I would pay them for some of their select standing trees. Since I don't have access to the latest logging prices, and I assume, neither do they, how do I know what is reasonable?  For example, I have a guy who wants me to pay him for about a dozen nice red oak trees on the edge of his cornfield.  If the mills are paying $250 to $500 per Mbf for decent red oak delivered to their yard, ( I called a mill and asked), what should I pay the landowner for his trees?  is there a rule of thumb, such as 50% of mill prices?  I'd do the felling, loading. and hauling back to my place for me to mill.  I need a place to start my negotiations, doesn't have to be exact, but at least in the ball park.
Thanks,
YH
YellowHammerisms:

Take steps to save steps.

If it won't roll, its not a log; it's still a tree.  Sawmills cut logs, not trees.

Kiln drying wood: When the cookies are burned, they're burned, and you can't fix them.

Sawing is fun for the first couple million boards.

Be smarter than the sawdust

Okrafarmer

One logger I know here (only full-time logger I've discussed prices with recently) sells to the local mills, and gives the customer 1/3 of the total proceeds for saw logs. Like you're talking about, he often deals with small tracts.
He that dwelleth in the secret place of the most High shall abide under the shadow of the Almighty. Psalm 91:1

Operating a 2020 Woodmizer LT35 hydraulic for Upcountry Sawmill, Dacusville, SC

Now selling Logrite tools!

Writing fiction and nonfiction! Check my website.

hollywoodmfg

I would say ur 1/3 or1/2 or whatever will very per location and timber species. To start u should figure what the logs r worth at ur mill deduct trucking and cutting and skidding.after u do this awhile u will come up with the percentage that works for u GOOD LUCK

mikeb1079

this is an issue that i've run into somewhat as well.  what i've noticed is that someone has a few trees for sale and sees the big box store finished price or has a neighbor that told them that so and so sold a walnut log for 2k and thus the seller has unrealistic expectations of what a few logs might be worth.  the best you can do is come up with a price based on mill rates/your labor and explain it to the seller.  most times they get it sometimes they don't but what else can you do?   :)

good luck!
that's why you must play di drum...to blow the big guys mind!
homebuilt 16hp mill
99 wm superhydraulic w/42hp kubota

paul case

First warning here is Don't bid on trees you dont want.

The way I do it is $.25 bdft doyle at my mill, $.20 bdft on your landing and $.10 bdft If I cut it, after cutting it down and into logs. You can find out the diameter without cutting it down and if you must bid to buy that will help you determine Bdft but you cannot tell if it has defects.

Some folks will tell you that your offers arent enough. Dont let that bother you. They should try to get someone else, so let them try. There aren't that many small tract loggers out there right now, in my area anyway. PC
life is too short to be too serious. (some idiot)
2013 LT40SHE25 and Riehl edger,  WM 94 LT40 hd E15. Cut my sawing ''teeth'' on an EZ Boardwalk
sawing oak.hickory,ERC,walnut and almost anything else that shows up.
Don't get phylosophical with me. you will loose me for sure.
pc

YellowHammer

Everybody, thanks, this is the info I was looking for.  None of the loggers I talked to would ever tell me what the landowner share was for just buying a few trees (can't blame them, I guess) and the landowners I talked to either had no clue, or were trying to get me to over-pay and would artificially inflate the price.

Thanks,
YH
YellowHammerisms:

Take steps to save steps.

If it won't roll, its not a log; it's still a tree.  Sawmills cut logs, not trees.

Kiln drying wood: When the cookies are burned, they're burned, and you can't fix them.

Sawing is fun for the first couple million boards.

Be smarter than the sawdust

WDH

In this area, low grade hardwood is selling for about $13/ton or $104/MBF Doyle.  High quality hardwood is selling for $25 - 30/ton or $200 to $240/MBF Doyle.  This is stumpage (value on the stump). 
Woodmizer LT40HDD35, John Deere 2155, Kubota M5-111, Kubota L2501, Nyle L53 Dehumidification Kiln, and a passion for all things with leafs, twigs, and bark.  hamsleyhardwood.com

lumberjake

Oak in Pa must be different. I would buy redoak all day long .25 if i could. Up here if you dont put atleast .40 on the stump on decent red oak you wont get it. Last big piece of oak that went off in our area averaged .80 on the stump because of the size. i always figure it's gonna cost me atleast .20 a ft to cut and truck back to our mill if it's not too far away. if loggers are selling red oak logs for .25-.30 cents theyd almost have to get it for free just to break even. if they're blocking logs i could see only getting that price for them. thats just my thoughts.

PC-Urban-Sawyer

Quote from: YellowHammer on September 23, 2012, 11:17:40 PM
...
For example, I have a guy who wants me to pay him for about a dozen nice red oak trees on the edge of his cornfield.

...

YH,

I'd think the price would be lower for these trees than for forest grown trees. As I understand it, trees grown out in open, including fencerows around fields, tend to be poorer quality than those that are grown in the competitive environment of a full forest...

Just sayin, make sure you know what your getting into.

Herb

WDH

Quote from: lumberjake on October 04, 2012, 12:45:08 PM
if loggers are selling red oak logs for .25-.30 cents theyd almost have to get it for free just to break even.

Lumberjake,

Oak in PA is different. 

The price I quoted was not delivered, that was the on-the-stump price.  You have to add logging and hauling to that to get a delivered price.
Woodmizer LT40HDD35, John Deere 2155, Kubota M5-111, Kubota L2501, Nyle L53 Dehumidification Kiln, and a passion for all things with leafs, twigs, and bark.  hamsleyhardwood.com

YellowHammer

I'm glad I asked these questions, because just this week a guy called and said he was clearing a couple acres of mountain land and was looking to see what he could sell instead of just making firewood.  He has a half dozen 30 (he claims) inch diameter red oaks he wants to sell, as well as some sassafras and poplar.   I gave him the $100 a Mbf if I cut it price or $200 Mbf if it's delivered price and he was very interested.  I'm going out there next week to look at the trees and hopefully they are as good as he claims. Since I sell my high grade kiln dried oak for $2.50 a bdft, if the trees are decent I should make some money
Thanks again for the advice,
YH
YellowHammerisms:

Take steps to save steps.

If it won't roll, its not a log; it's still a tree.  Sawmills cut logs, not trees.

Kiln drying wood: When the cookies are burned, they're burned, and you can't fix them.

Sawing is fun for the first couple million boards.

Be smarter than the sawdust

WDH

You will make out well at those prices, for sure.
Woodmizer LT40HDD35, John Deere 2155, Kubota M5-111, Kubota L2501, Nyle L53 Dehumidification Kiln, and a passion for all things with leafs, twigs, and bark.  hamsleyhardwood.com

shelbycharger400

The last job I did, I cut up all the small diameter red oak and went to firewood.
Everything that was 12 in and up went to the mill, the guy I was working with thought he was going to get big money for it. I heard bout it, didn't get nothing for it, it was full of nails and fence wire.  Glad none of that came here.

Slab Slicer

Just checked out a couple jobs today. One with 3 locust, and one maple. Nothing to write home about, but the locust will come in handy on the new outbuilding.

The second job will yeild quite a bit more. 6 White oak, 4 Red oak, 3 Chestmut oak, 2 shagbark hickorys, 2 bitternut hickory, and a couple of ash. Possibly more if the owner needs additional removed. All are over 20"dia., and nice and straight for the first 30 feet or so. The tops will become firewood, and the rest will be boards / lumber / timbers.

Did I mention that all of these are offered for free. Gas and travel time are my only expense at this point. Just in time for prime logging weather. No need to sweat it out in the summer heat.  :)
2016 LT35HDG25, Kubota L2501 w/ FEL, Kubota BX1500 w/FEL and custom skidding rig, Stihl MS 500i, Stihl MS362-25", Stihl MS250-20", Stihl MS192-18",  2001 F250 SD 7.3, GMC Sierra Dually 6.0 gasser, Peaqua 16" 10K trailer, Sur-Trac 12' Dump Trailer 10K
Chuck

Okrafarmer

I'm planning to exchange some custom milling of yellow pine for an open-ended amount of cedar, walnut, holly, and oak logs this winter. The customer is excited.  ;D
He that dwelleth in the secret place of the most High shall abide under the shadow of the Almighty. Psalm 91:1

Operating a 2020 Woodmizer LT35 hydraulic for Upcountry Sawmill, Dacusville, SC

Now selling Logrite tools!

Writing fiction and nonfiction! Check my website.

Slab Slicer

Quote from: Okrafarmer on October 06, 2012, 10:01:54 PM
I'm planning to exchange some custom milling of yellow pine for an open-ended amount of cedar, walnut, holly, and oak logs this winter. The customer is excited.  ;D

That is always a good way to work out a deal. The customer has no use for the "excess" logs, but does need a few pieces cut for other project. Everyone seems to win in that situation.

I'll be doing something similar with some folks down the road from us. They have 5 or 6 large poplar trees that fell in last years freak october snow storm here in PA, and they'd like some replacement boards cut for their barn. They don't need many, and don't want to see the excess logs rotting into the ground, so we struck a deal. The customer even promised to haul the logs to my house, and place them at the mill.  Bartering is a good thing.  ;D ;D
2016 LT35HDG25, Kubota L2501 w/ FEL, Kubota BX1500 w/FEL and custom skidding rig, Stihl MS 500i, Stihl MS362-25", Stihl MS250-20", Stihl MS192-18",  2001 F250 SD 7.3, GMC Sierra Dually 6.0 gasser, Peaqua 16" 10K trailer, Sur-Trac 12' Dump Trailer 10K
Chuck

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