Do any of you folks out there have personal recommendations for a source for hardwood timber pegs? My LT40 Super will make a lot of things, but NOT these!
My friend made a jig and cut our walnut pegs on his table saw. I also bought some oak pegs from somewhere .... Maybe it will come to me.
www.pegs.us
Do a search here on how to make a jig to cut them on a table saw. If you want 1" pegs, mill some 1" lumber from the butt end of a log. Just watch the grain of the wood as you mill. Then rip the lumber on a table saw. Watch the grain there too! If you search, you will find the post with pictures of the table saw jig.
Try Northcott Wood Turning, Walpole, NH
Chunk of wood, froe and mallet, and a drawknife.
Quote from: Dan Miller on May 12, 2015, 07:36:18 AM
Chunk of wood, froe and mallet, and a drawknife.
+1
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=RBPw-JuDHQc
Parker, do you want to buy pegs or make your own? The sources offered above to buy would work. If you want to make them, it is not that hard and you can get good help here. Let us know.
would beech make good pegs??
I would think that beech would work well, though I've never tried it. I usually use oak, though I have used Ash. Beech wouldn't have rot resistance, so I wouldn't use them outside.
I,de like to use oak but we don,t have enough trees to cut any on our property.ash I can get but I was wondering how it would work rot wise.i guess as good as beech..i bet locust would work great but there again I don,t have any on our land... how about ironwood?? we do have a bunch of that big enough for pegs..
Alaska yellow cedar will be strong and will not decay.
I wish I had a good source for Alaskan Yellow Cedar.
Beautiful wood with great rot resistance, but it's all several hundred miles Southeast of me.
I'll be taking my first Timber Framing class in a few weeks and conveniently I'm pretty skilled at wood turning and have a very well outfitted turning shed.
Looks like I'll be making pegs in the future.
It wouldn't surprise me if there are several places across America that fab these for sale to the many timber framers out there.
Hey Parker!
I just realized that it was your post.
Maybe I can help you out with this.
Even in the big state of Alaska...it would seem it's a small world.
It would be an easy thing to take a straight grained rip from whatever flavor of wood and just start turning and cutting to length.
Do they need to be tapered or straight?
What diameter are you looking for?
What species of hardwood?
My 2 cents I much prefer Hand riven pegs. Any time you rip pegs on a table saw you run the risk of cross grain which is a problem when driven hard. Riven pegs are by design with the grain. Makeing pegs is not hard but there is a learning curve. If you want me to make some pegs I can get, Cherry , Black Walnut, Hickery, Red Oak, Ash let me know.
So, I'm curious now...what would the difference be in a riven and shaved peg and a riven and lightly turned peg.
At this point you're still looking at a peg that was split along the grain lines and then cut down to a taper regardless of which method is used.
Rive and spoke shave=cut grains at end taper.
Rive and wood turn=cut grains at end taper.
What could the difference possibly be? We've split it along the grain and then cut through the grains at the end taper...am I missing something here?
As I see it, the only difference is that I could rive a longer piece and then turn 2 or 3 pegs from 1 piece and still have the same grain orientation.
I can't see an issue with turning the pegs from a riven blank. The grain is the same and you are basically trimming away everything that's not a peg. Whether that's trimmed off with a spokeshave or a chisel?
Also as long as you are careful with the grain orientation when you are sawing out blanks they should also be fine. There are various tables about how much the strength drops at various grain angles. One issue would be that the original board is usually sawn parallel with the pith, so you usually have some slope in the grain already. Enough to matter? Possibly not. If a design is that critical, it's probably not a good design. If something fails because it's only 95% the perfect strength, it shouldn't have been built that way to start with.
I went to riven pegs when I started drawboring my joinery. Drawboring asks the peg to deflect a bit without damage. A sawn peg will just not do this as well ,in my experience, even though I paid close attention to the grain.
Ianab, That's where I was coming from, if it's that critical then it needs a better design. Thanks for weighing in on this.
S,Hyland,
Again I appreciate the honest assessment. I agree with the added stress of a drawbored peg. I may have my own opinions, but I'm learning the craft and I want them to be based on solid truths.
I can readily see the difference between sawn and riven pegs. And I still see no tangible difference between riven and turned vs. riven and shaved.
What is your view of this?
The ideal peg is not perfectly round and smooth, but slightly octagonal. The angled edges give it more 'bite' and also crush slightly when driven in, gripping really well. A smooth peg would work but wouldn't be as good. Also, it wouldn't look as good as a traditional hand crafted peg, in my opinion. Even if you decide to use turned pegs, sitting on a shave horse making pegs with a draw knife is something carpenters have been doing for centuries and I recommend you give it a go. I also slightly taper my pegs.
Ohhh Man!!
You know, it's not like I don't already have enough projects to build...now you're telling me I've got to build a shave horse!?!
Ahhh, just kidding. First I've got to learn a little about Timber Framing, then I'll probably build a timber frame shave horse. Thanks for the experienced opinions.
How ya doing John? Getting any closer with your Vac Kiln?
Cheers...I'm chewing a beer right now!
Another way of making pegs is by knocking the blanks through what is essentially a short length of pipe the diameter of your pegs (here pegs are most commonly 3/4"), sharpened at one end and welded onto a tripod. I think this is probably quicker than turning would be. A few taps and a perfect dowel falls to the floor. You still need to cleave the blanks, so you'd need to make a froe (I forged mine from an old leaf spring). Then axe the end of the peg like a pencil.
I have also seen square pegs in old buildings.
I'm back on the kiln this week, Les. Waiting on one piece and shouldn't take too long to add the other systems. Been doing some lime and hair plastering followed by 5 coats of limewash lately. Need money to give to the vac kiln!
Cheers,
John.
Good to hear you're keeping too busy to get into trouble...that's my technique too.
I take it you are doing the old style wall building and finishes for a customer.
Father-in law and I are getting ready for the Timber Framing course next week.
Shopping for mallets and will probably turn some more from hickory at a later date.
Also, planning on making our own marking knives. I have some very high quality tool steel in the lathe/mill pile of goodies.
There wouldn't be any strength difference between shaving or turning them. There is one advantage that I have found with making an octagonal pegs. If it is turned it is very easy for the peg to be either too big or too small, making them hard to use ( A turned peg just a 64th too big can be impossible to drive). If they are octagonal the points and flats allow for more of a usable range (the points can bite and the flats can miss to a certain extent). I also let the pegs sit in a bucket of linseed oil to keep them easier to drive and flexible.
That is what I have found that works the best for me, but there are a lot of different methods.
The shaving horse can be fun...but it took about 3 tries to get one that worked for me.
Search YouTube - there are some good ideas out there. Some are works of art. Some are more practical. I ended up using some screws and bolts to hold it together. Function became more important then style for making barn parts.
We bought wooden pegs, but worked the ends a bit so rough cut points stick out rather than the smooth turnings. I have also made spindles for railings with the shaving horse out of new oak.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/36209/20150411_2033245B15D.jpg)
Here is 2 more cents. Riven in my opinion is the key factor. I will say depending on how straight your riven blank is turning it should be fine. I've found there can be a bit of curve to my blanks that is not a problem if finished by hand. Turning a curved blank may be an issue. I enjoy hand shaving my pegs and likely can produce them more quickly from a blank than I could set up and turning on a lathe. The pegs were never intended to be perfect.
Enclosed is a peg in a joint with the large end square. Truly a square peg in a round hole. This is from the attic of a ~1790 Episcopal church in upstate NY. The peg was shave 8 sided and tapered on the opposite end. Someone saved time by working only the 1 end.
Interesting discussion but 100-200 years ago I assume the pegs were split from a block then hand shaved with a draw knife or chisel. I tend to use historical practices just my choice.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/16581/P1030201.JPG)
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/16581/P1030201.JPG)
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/16581/P1030202.JPG)
All good information!
It sounds like I'll be building a shave horse at some point in my future.
I'm likely to try both shaved and turned pegs, just to see how they differ.
I like the idea of soaking them to increase flexibility and lubricity.
It's cool that a simple question here can turn into a long list of answers based on years of personal experience
...and I didn't even start this one!
Quote from: AlaskaLes on May 27, 2015, 04:19:22 PM
I like the idea of soaking them to increase flexibility and lubricity.
Your pegs want to be dry when you assemble the frame.
Explain your statement Dan.
Is that to avoid future shrinkage?
Yes - they will loosen as they shrink. Also the ends of dry pegs won't mash up when you drive them home.
Thanks Dan, that makes sense.
I'll plan on keeping them dry, rather than soaking.
Slightly off topic...We went out to the creek front property yesterday and staked the pad for 6 driven pilings. We'll be building a 14 X 20 deck and building our 1st timber frame structure there. It will be a 14' hexagon shaped gazebo with a small deck facing the creek and a stone fireplace and maybe a small stone pizza oven.
To be used for grilling and chilling. Can't wait to get started.
www.loghomestore.com has 3/4" and 1" round different lengths up to 14" in ash oak maple and some black locust. I bought over 100 or so 3/4" black locust 8" long from them, nice quality, they're located in Oregon.
On the site, look under hardware/fasteners/timberframe pegs.