Wood Mizer BMST50 Setup of tooth setter tips please

[DarlaL]

Hello everybody. I am new to this site/forum. My husband and I mill quite a bit of lumber. We purchased the Wood Mizer BMST50 sharpener/setter. We were using a manual sharpener and separate tooth setter manufactured by the same company where we purchased the sawmill from. Great sawmill (SMG), but the sharpener wore out. So. Now, I’m trying to get used to the BMST50. However, we use Cook saw blades and the profile of the CBN stone doesn’t fit the profile of the blade properly. Also, I am having a very difficult time setting the tooth setter at the desired set of 21, 22, or 23 degrees.  They need to be turned in more, but interfere with the blade. Does anybody have tips or a solution as to how to set it without having to put the blade in, try it, take the blade out, turn the set screws, put the blade in try it….. you get the idea. Thank you very much ahead of time.

[jimbarry]

SMG owner here too, solid mills. I have WM's automatic machines BMS250 and BMT250. But the issue you describe is one that you simply have to accept as part of the process of setting. There's one of two ways to do it so fart as I figure. 
First way, adjust the setter to come close to the desired set then crank out a bunch of teeth until they are clear enough away you can check the set. If it's still not enough, adjust and crank out a few more, check and determine if it's sufficient set. If so, then crank out a full set of teeth.
Second way is to do as you are doing, crank out a couple teeth, pull out the blade, check, recalibrate as needed and do it again. 
I find that sorting blades by age (number of times they've been sharpened) makes the process easier. When similar blades are grouped, the adjusted done for the first one are sufficient for the remaining blades.

[DarlaL]

Thank you. I’ll continue to try. I have to check the angle of the sharpener as it doesn’t fit the profile of the cook blades we purchased. Apparently it is supposed to, but it leaves a “step” in front of the tooth. I tried using older blades to get used to it, but after using the other sharpener, (which was permanently set at 12 degrees hook angle by default) it makes it difficult to set this new sharpener up. So I resorted to using our new blades. Is it possible to buy different wheels with different profiles?

[Percy]

Thank you. I’ll continue to try. I have to check the angle of the sharpener as it doesn’t fit the profile of the cook blades we purchased. Apparently it is supposed to, but it leaves a “step” in front of the tooth. I tried using older blades to get used to it, but after using the other sharpener, (which was permanently set at 12 degrees hook angle by default) it makes it difficult to set this new sharpener up. So I resorted to using our new blades. Is it possible to buy different wheels with different profiles?

Im not familiar with the BMST50 but it appears to have the same type of CBN stone that I have on my BMS250. The angle on a 250 is pinned at 15 degrees so when the stone is dropping in to sharpen the tooth it should not touch the tip of the tooth untill its around halfway down the tooth. The stone is engineered/manufactured to make this happen. There are different stones for different tooth/blade profiles.

[DarlaL]

I’ve been working at the tooth setter. As usual, when the blades are cold, the teeth like to recoil back some after setting. Just about got it set. As for the CBN wheel, I have been sending out inquiries on different sites to find ones that fit the Hudson Oscar blades sold by Cooks. Awesome blades. Thank you for your help and information. If anybody knows of reputable places that sell these CBN wheels, please feel free to reply.

[jimbarry]

I’ve been working at the tooth setter. As usual, when the blades are cold, the teeth like to recoil back some after setting. Just about got it set. As for the CBN wheel, I have been sending out inquiries on different sites to find ones that fit the Hudson Oscar blades sold by Cooks. Awesome blades. Thank you for your help and information. If anybody knows of reputable places that sell these CBN wheels, please feel free to reply.

Each CBN wheels is a different profile. I have had plenty of blades come in from different makers and the WM wheels, along with some custom ones we had made, might not fit the profile exactly. Honestly, the customer doesn't care so long as it's sharp. If your CBN stone doesn't quite fit, you can either keep running the blade through the sharpener until you change the profile on the blade to match the stone you have, or, you can get a custom stone made. Not all brands have CBN stones made for them.  For our customers who are fixated on using one type of blade then we will make CBN stones to match the profile if they are willing to pay for the custom stone. They generally go with the alternative and have their unique blade profile reshaped to match the CBN we have that closely matches.
Edited by admin

[DarlaL]

Well, I am actually going to send a sample blade to a company in Lithuania, and they are going to create a wheel specifically for the Hudson Oscar blades we use.  Yippee. It will take a little time, but I have other blades I sharpened on a manual hand crank sharpener. The WM CBN wheel just happens to fit the profile for those ones. (The cams we worn, but amazingly enough, it works with the new machine.)

[Old Greenhorn]

Well, I am actually going to send a sample blade to a company in Lithuania, and they are going to create a wheel specifically for the Hudson Oscar blades we use. .......

I thought the blades Hudson sold were Woodmizer blades?

[Stephen1]

I’ve been working at the tooth setter. As usual, when the blades are cold, the teeth like to recoil back some after setting. Just about got it set. As for the CBN wheel, I have been sending out inquiries on different sites to find ones that fit the Hudson Oscar blades sold by Cooks. Awesome blades. Thank you for your help and information. If anybody knows of reputable places that sell these CBN wheels, please feel free to reply.

What CBN wheel came with your sharpener?
What blade are you running that you bought from Cooks? 
I would try to find a wheel fom WM that fits that blade. I would think you can find a CBN wheel from WM that is the same degree as the blades your running. 

[DarlaL]

Well, I am actually going to send a sample blade to a company in Lithuania, and they are going to create a wheel specifically for the Hudson Oscar blades we use. .......

I thought the blades Hudson sold were Woodmizer blades?

The Hudson blades we purchase are from Cooks Saw in the US. They are not WM blades.

[DarlaL]

I’ve been working at the tooth setter. As usual, when the blades are cold, the teeth like to recoil back some after setting. Just about got it set. As for the CBN wheel, I have been sending out inquiries on different sites to find ones that fit the Hudson Oscar blades sold by Cooks. Awesome blades. Thank you for your help and information. If anybody knows of reputable places that sell these CBN wheels, please feel free to reply.

What CBN wheel came with your sharpener?
What blade are you running that you bought from Cooks?
I would try to find a wheel fom WM that fits that blade. I would think you can find a CBN wheel from WM that is the same degree as the blades your running.

 We bought the CBN with the BMST50 sharpener/setter. 5” 10 degree. We are running Cooks “Hudson” blade. Different profile. WM doesn’t provide a CBN wheel for them. 

[DarlaL]

I began sharpening the WM blades with the BMST50 and we are having trouble with the blades only lasting about 5 logs. If that. They begin to wave quickly. My husband adjusts the pressure, and sometimes that works. He has slowed his pace and sometimes that works. The blades sometimes “takes a dive” about an inch. How do I “de-set” the teeth? I tried the little tool that came with the sharpening and it broke a couple of teeth? Getting frustrated .

[barbender]

Set shouldn't be causing those issues. I would check the tooth tips very closely, with a magnifying glass if necessary, to make sure they are fully ground with nice square edges. It sounds like they may not be fully sharp. I would also try a factory new blade- if that saws fine that makes it more likely your sharpening process is at fault. If it still isn't sawing well, then you have something wrong on the mill, or pitch build up on the blade or something. A drive belt that is loose does a great job imitating a dull blade, they slip slightly and you don't hear it.

[terrifictimbersllc]

What I was going to say was just said above. Get yourself a 10 X hand lens, and compare the tips of your re-sharpened bands to those of new blades. Pursue this until you can get the same result.

Depending on the size and how dirty they are, bands can easily be dull in five logs. A band can be dull before finishing one log,  if the front end of the log is dirty.

[YellowHammer]

This is a common issue, and I did it myself.  DO NOT trust the sharpener or setter to "get it right" because they will fool you.  Just because sparks are flying doesn't mean the band is getting sharp.  Been there done that!  It's incredibly important to get direct physical feedback by looking at the teeth under magnification.  The tip corners must be square chisel sharp, and the cutting edge must look like a chisel.  I've posted pics on this on other topics.

Zeroing the setter and getting it to set accurately is also "fiddly" and I did a video on it for a WM dual tooth setter.  I've never used the one you have, but I can guarantee you, it's not "right" out of the box.   

Also, go ahead and purchase a set checker gauge, WM sells them, and they are invaluable to truly measure the set of the band.  I used my just the other day when I had some new bands that weren't cutting right and I used it to check the set, and one side was 6 thousanths off from the other.  Wavy cuts....the dealer sent me some new ones.  

Take pictures and measure the set of a new WM band under magnification, then take pictures and measure the set of your used dull WM bands, then take pictures and measure the set of your newly sharpened bands.  I think it will surprise you.  You will know when you get it right, they will cut like a laser.

A well sharpened and set band will outlast and outcut a new one.  It's a learning process to get it right and before long it will be second nature, but as I said, don't take for granted the machine is doing it right, rather, take of granted the machine is not and needs adjustment and tweaking.   

[Cedarman]

Just like a chainsaw the corner of the tooth is doing most of the cutting. The edge can be sharp, but the corner can be just a bit rounded. Will really interfere with cutting. Looking at the teeth with the light just right, the corners should be non reflective.  If you see the tiniest amount of shiny, then the corner didn't get sharpened.  As noted, hand lens will help see this.

[DarlaL]

Thank you everybody for your input and suggestions. Firstly, our drive belt is “loose” quite often. I offload the lumber while my husband mills. From my vantage point, I can see the drive belt bouncing a lot. We have tightened it up often, and replaced it a number of times. We are on our third clutch in almost four years.

When I got the sharpener, (after sharpening a few blades) I checked the angle of the grinder with the metal angle guide they sent with it. I adjusted the grinder to match the angle guide, (10 degrees supposedly)  as it showed maybe two degrees off. I think I shouldn’t have touched it. When I sharpen the blade the tip does not have the same “hook” appearance. I am going to take pictures and post them. I am also going to “reset” the angle to as close to what it was at the start.

We got a set gauge from WM when we bought the sharpener. Calibrated and used it. We also got a “quick set check gauge“ which is a square flat piece of metal that has a different angle on each corner. I use that quite often and the set is pretty close to what it should be. I’ll start posting some pictures. Thank you!

[Stephen1]

Welcome to FF. Please fill out your equipment info and such, helps us answer questions. 
Your will see your drive belt bounce around when loose. It needs to be adjusted when the engine is off, the blade is at full tension, and then engage the drive belt. A drive belt will last along time. My last drive belt lasted 6 years and 1500 hrs of sawing. LT40HD
Make sure you have the tension tool to adjust the drive belt.