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Sawing With My Wife and Not Arguing

Started by YellowHammer, August 01, 2022, 01:25:52 AM

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YellowHammer

Audio is pretty aggravating, and I've ruined a few videos due to it because most of the time, there is either a lot of background noise and it's very difficult to talk, or it's very quiet, and the mics pick up the slightest noise.  It's really hard to talk and try to explain something when the sawmill is roaring, or the loading is operating or the dust collector and planer are running.

I've even had issues where the audio sounds good on a laptop but then becomes unintelligible when played on a TV.  

I'm definitely still trying to figure the whole thing out, especially in the summer, when it stays daylight for so long, and my editing time has dropped because I need to be working.    
YellowHammerisms:

Take steps to save steps.

If it won't roll, its not a log; it's still a tree.  Sawmills cut logs, not trees.

Kiln drying wood: When the cookies are burned, they're burned, and you can't fix them.

Sawing is fun for the first couple million boards.

Be smarter than the sawdust

aigheadish

I'm not saying this to be a jerk.... Have you investigated solutions or are you just trial and erroring with the audio? 

I ask because I socially network with some folks that may have a lot of audio expertise and I can ask for suggestions, but I don't want to step on your investigatory toes. The best quality you'll get will undoubtedly be a standalone recording device but it really depends on what you want to put into the whole endeavor.

Also, kind of a weird question but do you know about cell phone interference? I've podcasted, in the past, and have heard other podcasts that have very strange, seemingly random, terrible noise artifacts and it turns out a lot of times it appears (audibly) when a text is received or other stuff like that. I never messed with wireless mics, so I'm not sure the same interference exists, but if that is a semi-regular problem you may want to leave the cell phone off or elsewhere. 
New Holland LB75b, Husqvarna 455 Rancher, Husqvarna GTH52XLS, Hammerhead 250, Honda VTX1300 for now and probably for sale (let me know if you are interested!)

aigheadish

Ha, welp, whether you wanted a bunch of info or not, I went ahead and asked my crew as I think it's an interesting question. 

I've got many responses, from doing  post production audio to setting up a separate mic to pick up the ambient noise to help remove it post-production style to a few other options. I'm on mobile now and have somewhere to be soon but I'll share the info I've got sometime I the near future. 
New Holland LB75b, Husqvarna 455 Rancher, Husqvarna GTH52XLS, Hammerhead 250, Honda VTX1300 for now and probably for sale (let me know if you are interested!)

OlJarhead

I typed up a response...thought I posted it...came back later and it was gone...hmmm...goofed I guess!

Anyway, in a nutshell I found the GP10 with the media mod works great for sound and I can dial it down as needed.  I use DaVinci Resolve to edit (free version) pictured here:


 
It allows multiple audio streams which makes it easy to match up clips in the editing process and allows changing the volume in each stream/each clip as needed with lots of powerful tools (now you know my editing secret lol)...

I use two GoPro's and find they work well on 1080p and run 2hrs on a battery if I turn off the wifi.  I also use 256gig sim cards for them so they can record all day.  I just change the batteries every 2hrs on a break.

Now, editing two 8+ hour streams of video into shorter videos for YT....I'm running out of hair! lol
2016 LT40HD26 and Mahindra 5010 W/FEL WM Hundred Thousand BF Club Member

btulloh

HM126

YellowHammer

I've got no toes to step on, I will take any knowledge I can get!  

Right now, the best audio I'm getting is with a GoPro Media Mod and a Sennheiser omni directional microphone into a Rode 2 wireless mic, which has very smooth background noise reduction.  I record at a low level, then bring the level up in the editing software.  That seems to provide the best audio.  The next is without the media mod on the GoPro using it's internal mic, but it doesn't sound good when I'm 10 feet form the  camera.

I record everything at 4K.  

The worst is the iPhone with its internal mics.  I don't understand it because the iPhone has incredible noise reduction capability when I'm one the phone talking to someone, they say they can barely hear any background machine noises.  However, when I switch to record video, all the background noise comes back in, and echoes.  It sounds terrible.

I had looked at a separate microphone to pick up audio, but that's just one more thing or three to deal with and sync up, so dropped it.

Final Cut Pro is a pretty good program, and I bought Izotope Noise Reduction plugin to help even more.   
YellowHammerisms:

Take steps to save steps.

If it won't roll, its not a log; it's still a tree.  Sawmills cut logs, not trees.

Kiln drying wood: When the cookies are burned, they're burned, and you can't fix them.

Sawing is fun for the first couple million boards.

Be smarter than the sawdust

OlJarhead

I also have a mic I can hook up to the camera (Lavalier type) but the sawmill is just so noisy I don't use it for that.  Just voice over instead which seems to work for me ;)

You're videos are good!  I enjoy them and often learn something from them -- and that brush munching machine is awesome by the way!  WOW!
2016 LT40HD26 and Mahindra 5010 W/FEL WM Hundred Thousand BF Club Member

aigheadish

Well shucks. It sounds like you've got great gear. 
New Holland LB75b, Husqvarna 455 Rancher, Husqvarna GTH52XLS, Hammerhead 250, Honda VTX1300 for now and probably for sale (let me know if you are interested!)

YellowHammer

But it complicated to set all this stuff up.

I'd like to just whip out the iPhone and take some "easy" videos.  Now that I'm thinking about it, I'm wondering why the iPhone disables the background noise canceling feature when it's recording video.  If I could turn that back on or even adjust it, that may be the key.  I need to do some Googling.... 
YellowHammerisms:

Take steps to save steps.

If it won't roll, its not a log; it's still a tree.  Sawmills cut logs, not trees.

Kiln drying wood: When the cookies are burned, they're burned, and you can't fix them.

Sawing is fun for the first couple million boards.

Be smarter than the sawdust

btulloh

Location sound recording is a deep and complex subject. It's very difficult to do it in a sawmill situation because the machines are loudest thing in the shot.  The iphone noise canceling is based on phase cancellation of late arriving sound which is also substantially lower than the close proximity of a person talking on the phone. Filming negates that difference, so it's more difficult or impossible to differentiate between the desired audio and the undesired audio.  The only real solution, and it gets to be time consuming, is to have a person wired with a clip on so the talker is close-mic'd relative to the background noise. Even then it's challenging with noisy machines running. 

The easiest fix is to shoot without live narration and then add a voice over later.  At first glance it seems like this is what Oljarhead is doing and it works well in his videos . It may seem like an extra step, but in the long run it's quicker and makes for a better result.  

I'm kinda surprised that Y-hammer is using omni on his mic setup. That's actually asking for more background noise, but . . . 

Gopros - they're a pain in the butt log to manage on a shoot for sure. In a production situation,even a pretty low-budget one, there will be a camera grip whose sole responsibility is tending gopro batteries and memory cards. With a few gopros running, there's always the possibility of running out of battery or memory on a gopro and it usually happens at the worst time. 

Shooting and editing is hard and time consuming.  I salute all of you doing these videos. It's not easy and y'all are ending up with good results.  This video stuff is another rabbit hole. Like sawmilling. 
HM126

aigheadish

I agree with btulloh.

If you are interested YH, I've got a guy who offered to mess around with post production for you. He also said it sounds like your setup is good and you shouldn't have the issues you are having. Though he also said what btulloh said, narrate after the fact. Let me know and I'll figure out a way to connect you guys. He also said he's got a lot of equipment he'd loan you if you want to try some stuff out, but that was before he knew what you were running a/v wise. 
New Holland LB75b, Husqvarna 455 Rancher, Husqvarna GTH52XLS, Hammerhead 250, Honda VTX1300 for now and probably for sale (let me know if you are interested!)

OlJarhead

I film in 1080p because the quality is still HD and allows a lot more footage in the sim.  Basically I can't plan my videos because of the nature of what I do.  Just gotta make what the customer wants and figure out what to make from it afterwards  ;)
2016 LT40HD26 and Mahindra 5010 W/FEL WM Hundred Thousand BF Club Member

aigheadish

Here's the comment made and he did watch at least some of your videos:

he is saturating his mic
easy fix
it can only be in 3 places:
-speaking too loud into the mic (unlikely)
-mic is too loud for the recorder (less likely)
-distorting it in post (more likely)
experimentation is in order


Don't know if that'll help or not and as mentioned above let me know if you want him to mess around with a clip. I got probably 6 or 7 different responses to my question about it and his was the best.
New Holland LB75b, Husqvarna 455 Rancher, Husqvarna GTH52XLS, Hammerhead 250, Honda VTX1300 for now and probably for sale (let me know if you are interested!)

YellowHammer

Great feedback (pun intended!)

I'll try to answer some of the questions, because yes, I certainly appreciate the help.

The omni directional mic was recommended to me from the guy who sold me the Sennheiser mic at the audio store.  He said I was moving my head too much from side to side when I talked, trying to show the lumber equipment, so he said a directional mic would clip out my voice when I turned my head out of the directional cone.  So he recommend this omni directional mic with an over the ear wire mount with a close mouth location and it does have good noise reduction, but I don't really like wearing it.  So I don't use it unless I'm in a high noise environment, like when driving the skid steer or when I'm running the sawmill, and it does a pretty good job of picking up my voice and removing background noise.  However, you are right, I'm saturating during editing, so I can try to be better about that.

Here is a link to a raw iPhone video I took on the last video.  It's unedited so forget the dialog making sense, because well, I'm not a pro.  However, you can hear a fairly loud and distinctive background hum that is only from the kilns, several hundred feet away, and hardly noticeable to my naked ear, but comes across highly amplified in the raw iPhone audio.  So the question is why is the hum being amplified so that I have to remove it in editing, when it isn't even noticeable in real life?  I have turned all other machinery off, I literally cannot make the background any quieter, and I can still hear the background hum form the kilns.  Interestingly enough, when using the Rode 2 with the GoPro Media Mod, the raw video has almost no background noise at all, even if I record any the exact same location.

The other thing with the raw iPhone recording is my voice has a very odd harmonic or unnatural sound to it, and even is the wrong pitch.  It doesn't have any "depth" and this is very apparent when I use it on back to back or sequential tracks with the better quality Rode2 audio on sequential cuts.  I can' figure out using the editing tools in FCP how to make my voice sound like "my voice."  I mean it's ok for phone calls, and stuff like that but it clearly is not in the same audio quality as the Rode2, so I just don't use the iPhone as much as I like.  Even though the video is very good, the audio isn't.

Iphone Raw Footage - YouTube
YellowHammerisms:

Take steps to save steps.

If it won't roll, its not a log; it's still a tree.  Sawmills cut logs, not trees.

Kiln drying wood: When the cookies are burned, they're burned, and you can't fix them.

Sawing is fun for the first couple million boards.

Be smarter than the sawdust

aigheadish

I'm going to be a real turd here.

Your audio is kicka$$. There's noise because you and Martha are making progress. I think there may be an unnatural quietness if you're trying to get rid of the hum and noise back there. Back in my podcasting says we did a lot of long form "street" recording (for lack of better thing to call it) and yeah, there's some distraction in the background noise but once you are accustomed to hearing it it makes a much better atmosphere.

That being said I'll direct my people to this conversation and we'll see what's up.

Even though it's likely unrealistic that I'll ever be a sawmiller you and your shop are an inspiration. It's really neat to see what y'all do.
New Holland LB75b, Husqvarna 455 Rancher, Husqvarna GTH52XLS, Hammerhead 250, Honda VTX1300 for now and probably for sale (let me know if you are interested!)

customsawyer

I thought that audio was pretty good for just being shot with the Iphone. Please keep in mind my level of knowledge "or lack there of" about making videos.
Two LT70s, Nyle L200 kiln, 4 head Pinheiro planer, 30" double surface Cantek planer, Lucas dedicated slabber, Slabmizer, and enough rolling stock and chainsaws to keep it all running.
www.thecustomsawyer.com

stanwelch

I also thought the audio from this video was good. I didn't hear any background fuzz and the volume can be easily adjusted on the device I'm using. Having met you and Martha at Jake's makes watching your videos that more enjoyable. Keep up the good work and don't sweat the small stuff. 
Woodworker, Woodmizer LT15, Stihl 026, MS261CM and 460 chainsaws, John Deere 5410 Tractor 540 Loader,Forks & Grapple, Econoline 6 ton tilt bed trailer

terrifictimbersllc

I thought it was pretty good too. I needed to turn up the volume a little louder than usual in order to hear the hum.

What do you use to hold your iPhone?
DJ Hoover, Terrific Timbers LLC,  Mystic CT Woodmizer Million Board Foot Club member. 2019 LT70 Super Wide 55 Yanmar,  LogRite fetching arch, WM BMS250 sharpener/BMT250 setter.  2001 F350 7.3L PSD 6 spd manual ZF 4x4 Crew Cab Long Bed

thecfarm

My hearing is not the best.
But I did not hear anything but you talking.  ;D
I could hear you very clear.
Model 6020-20hp Manual Thomas bandsaw,TC40A 4wd 40 hp New Holland tractor, 450 Norse Winch, Heatmor 400 OWB,YCC 1978-79

YellowHammer

I appreciate the help and compliments.  Maybe I'm over working this stuff.  It reminds me of a quote that has proven so true over the years when I asked an old timer concrete finisher what was the most common mistake he sees newbies doing wrong when working with concrete.  He said "They keep playing with it, and won't just leave it alone."

Quote from: terrifictimbersllc on August 07, 2022, 06:43:02 AM
What do you use to hold your iPhone?
Well, it's pretty high tech.  For that shot, I drove a couple nails into a wooden post and used it to hold up the phone.    

Around the mill, I've put in a several shelves, and use two cameras at once with power from a wall outlet so don't have to mess with batteries.  I just turn them on and let them run and then use the GP-10 and Rode mic for the "money" shots and other narrative shots.  Then I clean up the storyline holes I have missed later with the iPhone, sometimes days later, when I start editing the video and say "that part looks stupid, I need to shoot that again."

Final Cut Pro will automatically sort, stitch and synch all the cameras into one multi camera clip based on the audio tracks from each camera video.  It analyzes the waveforms from the audio of each camera, sorts and matches them to a master waveforms from one camera that must run uninterrupted, then all the clips are overlaid and timed perfectly on top of each other.  Most times....not always.  So then I just pick which camera shot in the FCP editor I want and it stitches that into the main timeline without me having to sync the audio up.  It is a huge timesaver when working with multiple clips and cameras.  It's called a "multi clip" and one of the reason I went with Final Cut Pro, but I'm sure most of the other video editors will do the same thing.  
YellowHammerisms:

Take steps to save steps.

If it won't roll, its not a log; it's still a tree.  Sawmills cut logs, not trees.

Kiln drying wood: When the cookies are burned, they're burned, and you can't fix them.

Sawing is fun for the first couple million boards.

Be smarter than the sawdust

Sod saw

.

This note is for YH as well as all of you who take the time to share their experiences with the rest of us thru the magic of video.

In one of my former lives,  I have helped build radio stations, recording studios, and owned and operated a recording studio.  (I know nothing about video.). My recording studio was in a converted mobil home for on location live radio, TV, and recordings for conventions and/or musical concerts, as well as record albums.

We have friends who have produced the audio for some of those major TV award shows as well as live concert celebrations on national TV.

I say this not to brag or talk about me, but, to emphasize how picky I am when I watch a movie in a theatre or  attend a live concert or watch a live concert on TV.  I sit there and criticize, to my self, how lousy the audio is during certain productions.

This note is meant to compliment all of you on the quality of your videos and how much I enjoy your efforts and successes in your productions.

They sound very good.  Your hard work and patience with the equipment shines through.  

As for loudness or softness of certain episodes or portions of any specific video. . .  Even high budget Hollywood type of movies have always had and continue to have places in each production where the audio may be too soft to hear the dialog or the music may be too loud in other portions of said film.

Producing on location is always more difficult than in a controlled studio where you can tell the noisy source to shut up, and try another take of that scene.  Learning the ins and outs of different mic polar patterns and noise canceling equipment while trying to learn about the video portion of the equipment along with trying to be the acting talent along with trying to produce an accurate cut on the log along with not hurting yourself or the equipment along with . . . . .  Then you get to take that raw footage into the studio and cut and splice and perhaps overdub some audio.    Oh, by the way, keep the dust from destroying the equipment.

That mason is not wrong.  It is easy to over produce, be too fussy.

Repeating myself,      I   "compliment all of you on the quality of your videos and how much I enjoy your efforts and successes in your productions."

My log processing has improved immensely as a direct result of your video productions.   Thank You all.



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LT 40 hyd.          Solar Kiln.          Misc necessary toys.
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It's extremely easy to make things complicated, but very difficult to keep things simple.
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YellowHammer

That is very high praise, indeed, I really appreciate it.  I always try very hard to be good at what I do, but it's difficult when I have no idea what I'm doing, and have never done it before.  I rely heavily on the feedback of others, and I take it all in.  As a friend once told me, when I ask a question it's because I'm looking for an answer, and because I know I can do better but don't know how.  I oversaturate, turn my head from the mic, trail off, or otherwise miss it.  I don't notice my mistake at the time, but when I watch the clips later, I see or hear it.    

However, what keeps me trying to improve my audio and video is just the plain experience of having people enjoy watching and listening to them.  It sounds silly, but just this last weekend, I had a slow minute at the showroom and turned on my Brushmonster video on my IPad, propped it up in the desk, leaned back, and started watching it. Before I knew it, several people stopped getting lumber and just started watching it also, and I even heard folks react when I was whacking trees and vaporizing stuff.  Even I enjoyed watching the video.  When it was over, one of the customers said, "That was a great video, when are you going to get one of those brush monster cutter things?"  He didn't even know it was my video and my cutter!  He just enjoyed watching it.  To me, that was cool.  

One if my favorite shots was at Jake's Project this last year.  The whole thing was fun, and I was walking around getting short videos snippets, but I knew the whole time it was just not happening.  My video was going nowhere.  It didn't flow right, and I wasn't getting the "feel" of the incredible planning and effort that Jake and Tammy had put into it, nor how tired I could see he was getting near the end.  He was putting everything into the the project, but I couldn't capture it.  Then it happened.  It was the last night, Jake was wore out, I noticed he was even limping a little, and I commented to Martha that he was on empty but still going strong, carrying the ball to the goal line. We were all sitting around the bonfire, Jake was standing there, backlighted by the fire, looking away from me, and I just knew the "shot" was coming.  I didn't know what, but I knew it.  So I quickly pulled out my IPhone, hit the record button and somehow, just at that moment, Jake turned around, looked at me, and raised his arms in the universal sign language of victory. Touchdown! Ballgame! He won. Everything had gone well, everybody was happy, and he'd done all he could do.  He was tired and it was over.  On the audio I could even be heard saying, "That's it, that's the shot."

So I went home, enhanced the colors, brightened reds, adjusted the greens, and tried to make it look like how I saw it in my eye, and then, I had it.  So why would I go to all that trouble when I'm not a video guy?  I didn't even know how to do color correction and hue enhancement with my software, but I knew I had to learn it to get it right.  The answer was this opportunity would never come again, and I wanted to make something that my friend would be proud to show his family and friends, and even years later, he could say "Hey that was me in the cowboy hat, that's what I did, and I was pretty darn good."  I even tried to make the opening screen look like a concert poster, like the Garth Brooks "Live" album cover or something.  

That's why I'm doing these videos and trying to get better.  I want people who are interested in the subject to learn something and enjoy. I want my kids, maybe grandkids, and friends to be able to watch them years from now, and say "Hey, that's Mom and Dad, they were pretty good at what they did."

By the way, here is the video of customsawyer with the "Shot."

https://youtu.be/OucFI3hsGd0





YellowHammerisms:

Take steps to save steps.

If it won't roll, its not a log; it's still a tree.  Sawmills cut logs, not trees.

Kiln drying wood: When the cookies are burned, they're burned, and you can't fix them.

Sawing is fun for the first couple million boards.

Be smarter than the sawdust

customsawyer

Sod Saw I don't put in 5 percent of the effort that YH and others do in their videos. I admire all that they are doing but it isn't something that I enjoy. It does mean a lot to know that others appreciate what little videoing I do.
YH I just host the project. It's folks like yourself that pitch in at the drop of a hat and help that make it what it is. Even when you ran out of bullets cooking chicken you were still trying. :D
Two LT70s, Nyle L200 kiln, 4 head Pinheiro planer, 30" double surface Cantek planer, Lucas dedicated slabber, Slabmizer, and enough rolling stock and chainsaws to keep it all running.
www.thecustomsawyer.com

WDH

Woodmizer LT40HDD35, John Deere 2155, Kubota M5-111, Kubota L2501, Nyle L53 Dehumidification Kiln, and a passion for all things with leafs, twigs, and bark.  hamsleyhardwood.com

caveman

Good job on the video, YH.  You captured everything just right except the raw weather.  I did not complain about the weather because, at the time, I welcomed the coolness but while Jake was cutting the 26' cypress log, most of us were in search of a leeward vantage point.  Thankfully Martha got a little fire started.
Caveman

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