fast growing trees on overcut land

[george99]

I posted somewhere else here about an intended land purchase in central Maine.

One thing I'm curious about is I've seen a some online listings for large parcels that are discounted due to being overcut.

I used to pass over these listings because the land looks terrible. But I'm wondering about the possibility of replanting with some sort of fast growing timber. Sort of suffering through a few years while things regrow in order to get a bargain.

[Ianab]

Problem is most fast growing trees are lower value. Now if you don't expect the land to produce good timber in your life time, this isnt a problem. You can have the land looking good in 10 years, and have the land for hunting or recreation. Then someone else gets to start harvesting good trees in 50-70 years.

May be different depending on your location. We can grow good pine or Saligna eucalyptus in ~30 years, and tropical climates have more options.

[WDH]

In dealing with timber and land, there is no instant pudding .

[nativewolf]

And you are in Maine, the land of slow growing trees.  On average... less than 1/2 as fast as mr WDH down in GA.  That said, a clearcut is an interesting thing to watch as nature abhors a vacuum and vegetation starts colonizing and regrowing immediately.  Won't be a great investment maybe but interesting to watch and manage.  In GA you'd have the possibility to harvest if you were not too old but in Maine you'd have to be pretty young to get to see final maturity.  

[mike_belben]

What a difference region makes. 

My tomatoes just quit yesterday but the collards are tickled to death with the recent cold snap.  Those pines in the front yard are bigger every time i look at them.  

;D

[snowstorm]

you dont have to plant anything. natural regen will take care of itself. the hw will sprout out of the stump. if there is a popple within a mile you will get thousands. if its a cone year spruce and or pine. its not common to replant here. the pine mills plant white pine  irving plants spruce. here if you dont move your lawn then next christmass you string lights on all the trees that grew on what was the lawn

[Southside]

Snowstorm took the words out of my mouth.  Popple will likely take a fast hold, but they are pretty well at the end of their life cycle by 30 ish years in your area.  Maple, spruce, fir, will come on so thick you won't hardly be able to see the ground.  Your challenge will be thinning the regrowth to manage for a better stand in the future.    

[george99]

hmmm, thanks for all the good info.

I'm not looking for instant forest, just trying to hedge my bets if I purchase a clear cut and be able to recoup some of the investment if I sell.

I guess the main thing would be to have something* grow in fast as possible around where I'm building and  that something would be poplars.

Kind of down on myself for not buying years ago when I had this idea, but I'm pretty far away from Maine now and would not have been able to keep on eye on things even if I had gone through with it.

Maybe when I start looking seriously I can consider parcels with part of them clear cut.

"Won't be a great investment maybe but interesting to watch and manage"... thinking about this, so maybe i'm better off with a smaller parcel with better growth.

Also one thing I'm curious about in Maine is all of the atv trails that run through basically everywhere. Is there any part of the state that is quiet or are those days over.

[Ianab]

Yeah, if you want to see a harvest in your lifetime, maybe look for land that might have been logged 20-30 years ago. It will have heaps of natural regrowth trees, but nothing you can call a saw log yet. But you can harvest some firewood size stuff as part of your thinning / improvement work. You can do that on a hobby scale on a small block, cancel your gym membership, and heat your house at the same time.   Start cutting the junk and make space for the best stuff. In the future you can harvest or sell it in a better state, in a couple more decades. 

Locally we can grow some imported plantation trees on a short rotation, but for the "good stuff", you are talking in centuries. I have Walnut and Cherry trees in the back yard, maybe 15 years old, and ~12" dia, and I also have a native Rimu planted the same time @3", but which has a life span of ~600+ years. Maybe you could plantation grow them on a 200 year rotation? Wood is highly sought after (permit needed to mill one), but the economics just don't work out. Grow 8 harvests of pine trees in the same time, and reinvest the returns..  :P  Bank manager says the Pine works better for them. 

[thecfarm]

Kinda hard to get away from atv and snowmoible trails in central Maine. But saying that I run chainsaws and tractors so I can't hear the noise. ;D  As I say,I am not a quiet neighbor. ;D   No atv trails close to me,but I live on a dead end dirt road and they go on the road here. Maybe 4-5 a week. I have never seen one going fast yet.
Welcome to the forum.
White pine is where the money is. Or that's the one that I made my money on.  

[lxskllr]

Dawn redwood grows fairly fast. Doubt it has much commercial potential, but it's a nifty tree. I'd almost rather have nothing than have poplar.

[mike_belben]

or sell it in a better state

This.  Some anecdotal meandering to follow.

In my adult lifetime the world seems to have forgotten that all investments are speculative and past returns are no guarantee of future returns. I blame the internet for its love of wives tales and easy money.  

A fool and his money are soon parted.  Still holds true.  And occasionally, some fool gets some easy money then looks for a place to "invest" it.  When you see the outrageously priced heap of "collector" junk on CL forever, this is a patient seller casting his lure for that ONE fool with the easy money to part with.  It happens, can take years but ive seen it many times.

I watch land prices a lot.  I see two common scenarios locally regarding forested land.  There is recently cut, which sells very cheap if it sells at all, and there is not cut since the 90s or so and "excellent timber" which is baloney because none of it is ever managed.  Reality is its a few sticks of passed over timber near the questionable property line and the rest was below diameter limi during the last highgrade harvest.. Which is just barely big enough to sell now.  Beneath this sparse canopy is a bunch of junk that needs cull.  Doyle scale might pay $10k delivered to the mill if you clearcut but theyve priced in 50k+ above the bare acreage value for it.  What i have never once seen, is managed prime timber on the stump and land under it for sale intact.  It may happen but its not public, i have searched and searched.  I cant even imagine the asking price.  My point is, and feel free to disagree- i may be wrong here.. if someone has a nice, well managed forest to sell... that is very rare in my opinion.  Sellers harvest it themselves then sell the farm id bet 90% of the time. Rare things are what demand best return.  In many markets, rarity itself is what you are selling. Collector/antique stuff, old comics and basebal cards and records and autographed guitars etcetc.  Rarity is an industry.  


I went on a church hayride with the family sunday, about a dozen adults on our wagon and we went 30 mins into some woods i have worked in on a private summer camp.  900 acres of Huuuge mature oaks interspersed with pine during the 1920s for winter screening.  Zero harvest or managing except blowdowns.. It is very valuable land and it will never be for sale in the owners lifetimes.  They dont need the money and they like the place as it is.  

We pass a pile of bucked 8ft pine, maybe 15 logs or less.. Good size, probably 20" inside bark, pretty clean, no taper. im sure it was a blowdown and will either be sawn for camp cabins and horse fence or burned in the OWB.  Theyre talking about timber values and as we pass the pile a man of 55-60 yrs old points and says thats about $5,000 right there, the rest unanimously agree.  I smile as i think to myself, at 8ft i couldnt find a buyer, and if it was 10'6 i know one mill that'll give 20cents/bf which is less than i can get for a 12" soft maple tie log.  Here in a natural hardwood forest, (not plantation) pine is what the farmer has sawn because it was the wood not worth the cost to haul off. It is the cull tree that needs to be removed to get at the money.  Yet there is a dozen adults in front of me who believe otherwise.  

Now if i were selling land with a bunch of pine to them, should i inform them, or ask "what its worth?"  If worth is what everyone agrees and they all agree its worth a fortune, shall i not ask for one?  Maybe even discount it a little to be a nice guy.  

Buy your land, manage it well and find your foolish timber prospector with money to burn. Buyer beware, due dilligence etc. Its on them to know whats involved in making money on whatever venture they dive into.  I am of the opinion there is more money in selling potential timber to starry eyed dreamers than there is in selling real timber to shrewd old sawyers, because im doing a fine job staying poor at the latter.