Milling 50+ foot beams 10x12, 12x12

[Herbettehunter]

I have been researching this topic for over a year now. I have learned a lot from my readings but have no practical experience in milling a log over 20 ft long. There was even an older post in this forum on the topic which was helpful but didn't answer my ultimate question which is what would be the best mill I could purchase in order to mill extra long beams.

I have the ability to bring in nice Douglas Fir logs into my shop area and from the proceeds of my former company I can purchase a new quality mill. My plan is to first mill my own beams for a pavilion project I am working on (2 acre lot cleared and footings already in the ground). I then will produce beams for a couple of nearby timber framing companies that are in need of them fairly regularly, once I have the confidence in my techniques for producing quality beams (my future niche area).

I greatly appreciate any input from the community to help me decide what's the best mill for me to purchase to do this production kind of work in the future. I am overall handy, but I lack the deep knowledge of a Sawyer like so many of you. Thank you.

[Dave Shepard]

I've been set up for 57'. Currently good for 45' with my LT40 Super. A Wide Head mill will make life easier. When cutting logs that size I use a forklift to do all the turning. I have dunnage on the ground to take the abuse, then I set the log back on the mill. A concrete pad is almost a necessity, but I've done it on good gravel before.

 

 

 

[customsawyer]

One of my WM LT70s is stretched out to 56'. I've only done a few out to that length but have done thousands around 40'. Getting a mill that will cut that long isn't to hard. I have seen guys do it with LT15 mills with extra track it is just more work than with a hydraulic mill. Things to consider is the amount of stress that can be in a log. If a 10' log has stress in it that a 50' log will have 5X as much. If you have a mill that will cut that long then you need equipment that can load and unload some big logs that will be extremely heavy. If your main target is the timbers you will still need to find a market for the side lumber. When I was making 12x12x40' they would have 480 bf in them. They would produce around 250-500 bf of side lumber per timber. To make a 12x12x12' you need around a 18" top. To get a 12x12x50' you will need a bigger top due to sweep in the log. It is pretty rare when you get to that length that there isn't some sweep some where in the log. For timber frame homes they really like timbers that the faces are square to each other so you need to really have your mill dialed in. These are things just off the top of my head. I'm sure there is more I've forgotten.

[mike_belben]

DonP does his monsters with an alaskan that keeps going down a repositioned guide.  Im sure its not the easiest 50ft beam but ill guarantee its the cheapest.  

Otherwise id say ya need a regular bandmill head that walks down 3 beds linked together lagged to a continuos slab.  Chain turners on each one.  Controls on the head so you walk with it.  Theres no way you can see whats going on 50 foot from a fixed operator seat. 

[Nebraska]

Take a look at an Easy Boardwalk 50  set up on concrete add several extensions, and a big loader with a spreader bar setup for turning and handling finished product and waste. LT 15 wide would work as well.

After you mill a handful of beams would you mill for more than your own use? The big manual mills will tie up less dollars and do the same task. Leaving other dollars for other things (supplemental equipment etc).

[SawyerTed]

Purchase of a new mill will have fairly long lead times.  Right now lead times are from 6 or 8 months up to 15 months depending upon the manufacturer and model ordered.  

I ordered a new mill yesterday, it will be delivered in 2023 unless lead times decrease dramatically.  

[Herbettehunter]

Thank you all. Very helpful.

Dave Shepard: Wow, beautiful setup. I assume you got WM to customize that for you. Are there hydraulics down the entire bed? Also I planned on making large movements of these length logs with my Kubota SVL97-2 trackloader.

Customsawyer: Lots of good hands on data here. Things that concern me about milling long logs is to understand the log well enough to get it true dimensionally along the entire length. No matter how well I set up the mill, I still lack the experiential knowledge to read a long log which is something I have to acquire I guess by doing a lot of long logs.

BTW, how did you stretch the lT70? Did you buy bed extensions from WM and then added your own hydraulics and lines? Reason I ask is WM doesn't seem to be interested in producing such a custom run right now probably because they are so far behind in regular orders(see below).

Mike_Belben: If I go WM way (fully hydraulic), would I have that option of head mounted controls?

Nebraska: After my own use, the goal is to produce long beams for a couple of different timber framing companies I know.

Sawyer Ted: Ditto. I ordered a Super LT70 in January of 2021 for all my 25 foot or less milling (for me and others) and I'm told I probably won't get it until February or March of this year. At least that's the latest update. The only thing I added to it was a shingle lapsider attachment cause I have a whole lot of shingles to make for my new barn/pavilion (40x70x35 at peak) and a 6 foot bed extension for 25 foot production stuff for others.

[SawyerTed]

That's the bad part about the mills that use the energy chain.  They can only extend so far if extensions are needed.  

A walk along or ride along mill can go as far as you want.

[Dave Shepard]

My mill has a BX24 extension. It just bolts on. The longer mill has ky BX24 and a BX12. All are bolt on, no customization. I have one side support on the extension linked to the mill to save running back and forth. With Command Control you can only use a BX6 extension. I have the wireless remote. 

[Daburner87]

Well if I were you an LT15 Wide with enough track would probably be my choice.  You can spend more if you want it really depends on the features you want and the current tools you have.  How do you plan to move a 50ft beam?

[Andries]

I used a 1992 LT30 to make beams, lumber and half logs for projects like this.



Those are 40' 10x10 vertical beams in the photo.

[Andries]

An earlier post mentioned the drive chain, which you can see drooping into the snow. 
It slacked onto thin planks that laid were laid on the ground, to keep the chain clean. The chain got a spray of ATF lube every other day. 
Words of experience from Dave Shepard:"When cutting logs that size I use a forklift to do all the turning. I have dunnage on the ground to take the abuse, then I set the log back on the mill." I had been turning logs on the mill bed, and found that the side supports were taking a terrible amount of abuse. 



Turning on the ground would take a bit more time, but may be worth it. 
If you can't wait for WM to make up some BX24 or 12s for you, you can order parts and fab up your own. Side supports, manual clamp assemblies, manual toe boards are all available from the WM parts department. Remember to use cold rolled and case hardened 1" rod to make the rails. 


 

[Dave Shepard]

Definitely want a wide head. I've been sawing up some short butt logs, and it's a pain. These butts are what you'll face sawing 50' logs. This one has already had some chainsaw work done on it, and it was not the largest.

[Andries]

x2 on the wide.
Dave's chainsaw work is on the right, mine is on the left.
(have you ever seen such an off centre pith, and long too)
Like CustomSawyer said, a guy really starts to appreciate straight logs when you get more than 35' lengths.

[Dave Shepard]

Some straight 52'. One advantage of the big butts is you can make up for a slightly less than straight log.


 

[nopoint]

Andries,not to derail the thread but do you have any more pictures of that project? It looks awesome!

[Old Greenhorn]

I've been reading along with interest. I think a lot of folks get calls for these long beams from time to time. My part time boss was getting them too. mostly around 40'. He finally ordered an LX25 for these. It was available in August and he picked it up in the fall around October, it's still sitting in the boxes until we make a site for it and pour a pad. I was dubious about the whole thing, but when you think about it, a 40' 8x8 at just $1.50/BF is 320 bucks. A couple of those a day is good side money. ;D
 Obviously if you are going to do a lot of these, or make it your 'niche' you should maximize your capabilities, but for the lower quantities a simple basic machine is the more economical way to go. AT least, that's how I think.

[Andries]

Andries,not to derail the thread but do you have any more pictures of that project? It looks awesome!

Full disclosure; my role was to mill Norway pine and Western Red Cedar for the "crew". I'd get texted lists for material needed and do my best with the pickings from the log yard. The crew were very talented woodworkers. I was a complete rookie. Also, I travelled to Georgia to meet that youngster, Jake Dean @customsawyer for advice and in doing so, he saved my sorry a$$ all sorts of embarrassment. He's the man!
Here's some of the finished buildings.

[Walnut Beast]

Absolutely impressive!!

[customsawyer]

Andries I have always enjoyed pictures of your projects. I appreciate the compliment. All I really did was share lots of my mistakes so you wouldn't have to make the same ones. You could go out and make your own.  :D

HH I started with a 6' extension. With in a couple of months I had requests for longer than I could cut. I was able to read the future a little and just ordered the 24' extension next. I had a connection at WM Indy and just had WM add all of the hdy. functions of a LT40 except the log loader. They asked about the hoses and I told them I would handle that part. A friend had a 12' extension and was going to a remote mill, so I swapped him my  6' extension and some blades for his 12' extension. Now when I went to hook the 12' to the 24' there was some challenges. The top and bottom rail were not drilled and they were about ¾" short so some mods had to take place. I have started a YouTube channel Custom Sawyer and will be posting a video about it in a few weeks or so. Keep a eye out for it or subscribe. 

[customsawyer]

Here it is with a 30' log on it.

[scsmith42]

I've milled long beams using a swing blade mill and a crane.  One project of some 43 footers is documented here in the FF archives:

https://forestryforum.com/board/index.php?topic=61982.0

The advantage of a using a swing blade mill is that you get the "old timey" radial saw kerf marks on the beam.  Additionally you can mill a log with a much larger butt end than most band mills.

Having said that, a typical band mill will be less labor intensive and faster to operate.  Plus you can net some wider side boards than you can with a swing blade mill.

For efficiency, I'd recommend that you use something along the lines of Jake's setup.

[Joe Hillmann]

I would recommend a 2 post mill.  That way it is very easy to add sections to get the length you need.  You can buy the sections or build your own. 

I have a homemade 2 post mill on a trailer that can cut 11 feet.  I built a 4 foot extension a few years ago and a 22 foot extension last summer.  The longest logs I have cut on it are 36 feet.  In theory it could cut longer but it is nice to have a foot or more on each end so the log doesn't have to be positioned perfectly.  Mine is set up on 3 separate trailers.  I park them end to end then start blocking them up.   Once the ground is good and frozen it works really well.  But in the spring thaw I have to re-level it multiple times per log.  Having a good concrete foundation would be nice(but takes away portability) and would help a lot with keeping things straight and level.

I was cutting 8x8's that long.  Hardwoods were very hard to keep straight.  In some cases I would get a bow of 4 or 5 inches over the length of the log on the first cut.  The only way to recover from that was to cut the log into shorter pieces.  White pine and popple behaved pretty well.  Red pine was like a piece of spaghetti and took the most care when moving it around once millet to try and keep it clean.

I think there could be a lucrative market for long timbers go for quality and charge high rather than charging low prices and having to make it up in quantity.  Since mills that can cut that long are rare people will pay your price or figure out how to get by with shorter beams.  Logs that can make good beams that long are a bit rare as well so make sure to charge for that too.

[Dave Shepard]

I've milled long beams using a swing blade mill and a crane.  One project of some 43 footers is documented here in the FF archives:

Milling some long ones in Sawmills and Milling

The advantage of a using a swing blade mill is that you get the "old timey" radial saw kerf marks on the beam.  Additionally you can mill a log with a much larger butt end than most band mills.

Having said that, a typical band mill will be less labor intensive and faster to operate.  Plus you can net some wider side boards than you can with a swing blade mill.

For efficiency, I'd recommend that you use something along the lines of Jake's setup.

You've also cut some 56' oak. I wonder who has cut the longest on the Forum? I'm at 52' pine and 40' white oak. I think it's between you, Andries, and customsawyer. Certainly the 50' club is going to be fairly limited.

[Dave Shepard]

I think the cantilever head offers some advantages when dealing with the big logs. As long as you can wiggle something up under the head, you can give it a trim.