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10hp electric or 20hp gas?

Started by hackberry jake, December 16, 2014, 05:42:53 PM

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dgdrls

Quote from: Joe Hillmann on December 19, 2014, 04:28:12 PM
A true 10 hp electric motor will draw 32 amps.  Maybe more at start up.  Is your electric service up to that much power draw?  If you have 100 or 200 amp service it probably wont be an issue.  40 or 60 amp would be questionable depending on what else you are running.  And 20 or 30 amp (there are still some homes in this area with that small of a service) you wouldn't be able to run it, or if you did you would be taking a risk.

It would also depend on where you plan to cut.  If only at your place within reach of electric won't be a problem but if you do any mobile sawing having an electric motor will really limit your possibilities.

Also how dependable is your electric company.  Some places my have a couple hours with out power in a year.  Other places may be without power for the better part of the day every time the wind picks up a bit.

With that said, electric would probably be cheaper (depending on rates) and much less maintenance than gas powered.

I assume your talking about a 3 phase motor here,

DGDrls

Dave Shepard

Wood-Mizer LT40HDD51-WR Wireless, Kubota L48, Honda Rincon 650, TJ208 G-S, and a 60"LogRite!

Swatson

One issue you may run into with electric is they are designed to run at a set speed.  They like that speed and they run most efficiently at that speed.  Two pole run at 3600 rpm, four poles at 1800 etc (actual rpm will be lower due to drag so you see a lot of 1725 rpm and so forth).  The rpm are tied directly to the hertz of the incoming power.  60 hertz coming in from the pole is equal to 3600 pulses per minute that is why motor rpms are always a root of this number with drag factored in.

With a gas engine when you bite into a log you can hear the motor lug down under load so you can either slow down your feed rate and/or increase the throttle.  With electric the motor it does not like to lug because it bases its speed on how many hertz is coming in.  The result will be since the magnetic fields inside the motor are not lining up where they should the amp draw will increase as the motor compensates.  If the motor cannot get back up to its ideal speed, heat starts to be created instead of motion.

That was way longer than i intended it to be...long story short is it is not always easy to hear the motor start to drag when you are sawing through a log so what I did when I was using electric is to install an amp meter.  It fluctuates quite a bit more than you think it would but it can give you a good idea of where the motor is happy. 

Then again mine was only 5 hp so your ten may not be all that finicky.
I cant figure out which one I like better: working with wood or making the tools to work with wood.

Joe Hillmann

Quote from: dgdrls on December 19, 2014, 08:52:48 PM
Quote from: Joe Hillmann on December 19, 2014, 04:28:12 PM
A true 10 hp electric motor will draw 32 amps.  Maybe more at start up.  Is your electric service up to that much power draw?  If you have 100 or 200 amp service it probably wont be an issue.  40 or 60 amp would be questionable depending on what else you are running.  And 20 or 30 amp (there are still some homes in this area with that small of a service) you wouldn't be able to run it, or if you did you would be taking a risk.

It would also depend on where you plan to cut.  If only at your place within reach of electric won't be a problem but if you do any mobile sawing having an electric motor will really limit your possibilities.

Also how dependable is your electric company.  Some places my have a couple hours with out power in a year.  Other places may be without power for the better part of the day every time the wind picks up a bit.

With that said, electric would probably be cheaper (depending on rates) and much less maintenance than gas powered.

I assume your talking about a 3 phase motor here,

DGDrls


No, that would be 10 hp on 230.  Ten hp would be about 7456 watts.  Divide that by 230 volts and you get about 32 1/2 amps.

I say true because many motors are rated at the highest power they can draw just as they stall out.  In actually running it is much lower.

dgdrls

Quote from: Joe Hillmann on December 19, 2014, 10:14:39 PM
Quote from: dgdrls on December 19, 2014, 08:52:48 PM
Quote from: Joe Hillmann on December 19, 2014, 04:28:12 PM
A true 10 hp electric motor will draw 32 amps.  Maybe more at start up.  Is your electric service up to that much power draw?  If you have 100 or 200 amp service it probably wont be an issue.  40 or 60 amp would be questionable depending on what else you are running.  And 20 or 30 amp (there are still some homes in this area with that small of a service) you wouldn't be able to run it, or if you did you would be taking a risk.

It would also depend on where you plan to cut.  If only at your place within reach of electric won't be a problem but if you do any mobile sawing having an electric motor will really limit your possibilities.

Also how dependable is your electric company.  Some places my have a couple hours with out power in a year.  Other places may be without power for the better part of the day every time the wind picks up a bit.

With that said, electric would probably be cheaper (depending on rates) and much less maintenance than gas powered.

I assume your talking about a 3 phase motor here,

DGDrls


No, that would be 10 hp on 230.  Ten hp would be about 7456 watts.  Divide that by 230 volts and you get about 32 1/2 amps.

I say true because many motors are rated at the highest power they can draw just as they stall out.  In actually running it is much lower.

Quote from: Joe Hillmann on December 19, 2014, 10:14:39 PM
Quote from: dgdrls on December 19, 2014, 08:52:48 PM
Quote from: Joe Hillmann on December 19, 2014, 04:28:12 PM
A true 10 hp electric motor will draw 32 amps.  Maybe more at start up.  Is your electric service up to that much power draw?  If you have 100 or 200 amp service it probably wont be an issue.  40 or 60 amp would be questionable depending on what else you are running.  And 20 or 30 amp (there are still some homes in this area with that small of a service) you wouldn't be able to run it, or if you did you would be taking a risk.

It would also depend on where you plan to cut.  If only at your place within reach of electric won't be a problem but if you do any mobile sawing having an electric motor will really limit your possibilities.

Also how dependable is your electric company.  Some places my have a couple hours with out power in a year.  Other places may be without power for the better part of the day every time the wind picks up a bit.

With that said, electric would probably be cheaper (depending on rates) and much less maintenance than gas powered.

I assume your talking about a 3 phase motor here,

DGDrls


No, that would be 10 hp on 230.  Ten hp would be about 7456 watts.  Divide that by 230 volts and you get about 32 1/2 amps.

I say true because many motors are rated at the highest power they can draw just as they stall out.  In actually running it is much lower.

Thank-you Joe, agreed.   
Quote from: Dave Shepard on December 19, 2014, 09:11:50 PM
10 hp single phase is 44 FLA.

So say 44 full load amps,  (FLA)  would you be looking at approximately a 50 Amp circuit to drive the motor? 

Thanks guys, 

DGDrls

bandmiller2

Believe it or not I used to own a 50hp single phase motor it weighed about a half ton. It ran a cider mill for a old german neighbor. When I looked at the amp draw I traded that sucker for ether a steam engine or milling machine I forget now. Frank C.
A man armed with common sense is packing a big piece

Dave Shepard

Quote from: Dave Shepard on December 19, 2014, 09:11:50 PM
10 hp single phase is 44 FLA.

So say 44 full load amps,  (FLA)  would you be looking at approximately a 50 Amp circuit to drive the motor? 

Thanks guys, 

DGDrls

[/quote]

I don't know what you would need for a circuit breaker, that would probably depend on the inrush. Starting a 10 HP motor without a load would probably not have a huge inrush. The 7.5 HP we had on the sawdust blower had a 140 amp inrush. I don't recall the size of the breaker, 50 amp, maybe.
Wood-Mizer LT40HDD51-WR Wireless, Kubota L48, Honda Rincon 650, TJ208 G-S, and a 60"LogRite!

customsawyer

Jake I run ATF and thin tractor hyd. fluid blend.  In your setup I would run strait ATF.
Two LT70s, Nyle L200 kiln, 4 head Pinheiro planer, 30" double surface Cantek planer, Lucas dedicated slabber, Slabmizer, and enough rolling stock and chainsaws to keep it all running.
www.thecustomsawyer.com

customsawyer

Felt like I was talking to myself.  :D
Two LT70s, Nyle L200 kiln, 4 head Pinheiro planer, 30" double surface Cantek planer, Lucas dedicated slabber, Slabmizer, and enough rolling stock and chainsaws to keep it all running.
www.thecustomsawyer.com

Dave Shepard

I get that feeling sometimes. There are a lot of Daves out there. Although some of them have taken on the personality of goats. :D
Wood-Mizer LT40HDD51-WR Wireless, Kubota L48, Honda Rincon 650, TJ208 G-S, and a 60"LogRite!

POSTON WIDEHEAD

The older I get I wish my body could Re-Gen.

pineywoods

Jake, I assume you are talking about the hydraulics for pineywoods turner/clamp. Mine only has a 1 hp motor and it definitely don't like cold. I added a quart of atf mixed in with the tractor hydraulic oil, works ok down to about 30 degrees..I quit sawing before it gets that cold  ;D
1995 Wood Mizer LT 40, Liquid cooled kawasaki,homebuilt hydraulics. Homebuilt solar dry kiln.  Woodmaster 718 planner, Kubota M4700 with homemade forks and winch, stihl  028, 029, Ms390
100k bd ft club.Charter member of The Grumpy old Men

hackberry jake

I have a lot of atf sitting around the shop. Ill have to try that out.
https://www.facebook.com/TripleTreeWoodworks

EZ Boardwalk Jr. With 20hp Honda, 25' of track, and homemade setworks. 32x18 sawshed. 24x40 insulated shop. 30hp kubota with fel. 1978 Massey ferguson 230.

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