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advice please on reading where to cut this log for slabs-new to chainsaw milling

Started by Northeaster, February 16, 2020, 06:24:22 PM

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Northeaster

 

 

 Hi Folks, (sorry for the long post)
 
My early  064, which I rebuilt about a month or two ago) is working very well and I made up a sort of chainsaw mill attachment for the saw which bolts onto the saw bar studs and holds the bar pretty level while it slides on a ladder rails beside the log. I have a 36" bar on and have a home made semi chisel ripping chain (refiled closer to 10 degrees and cut off a bunch of cutter to now be scoring cutters)

In East coast of Canada (Nova Scotia) and we don't get huge trees here, so when this fairly large maple blew down on my father-in-laws property, I chunked most of it up for firewood but left the fattest log on the ground to mill when I had the gear.
The log has been on the ground for 1.5 years and it blew over because it had alot of rot.  I rolled it over so that the rotten side is on the bottom, and I am hoping to get a couple of nice slabs off the top side, which doesn't appear to have too much rot.

Other than running my saw and mill jig through a bunch of rounds of large poplar, all arranged in a row like a log... this will be my first milling attempt.  I added a hand winch/ winder since the pic, so I can pull it along better.

To me, a complete novice, it looks like I have the heart crack as horizontal as  I can on both ends, and the good wood up... on the fat end, below the center or heart crack is completely rotted away.
On the smaller end there are two "centers" and I am not entirely sure which one is joined/ parallel to the main other end....  the top "center" which is blackened is much larger but the smaller one under it looks closer to the middle of log... So, which one is the center of the log, which is joined with the other end?  
I ask as I have watched a bunch of chainsaw milling videos and usually the guys will measure up say 1 ft from the center on the small end, or whatever they can get, and then measure and mark the same on the large end... then set up mill jig to place the bar at that height.. and go on to take as many 2.5 or 3" slabs as you can get..  The log is clearly rotten on the bottom from about mid way to the fat end.  I think I may still get some decent shorter slabs from the bottom, nearer to the small end, which doesn't appear rotten.

 

 

 

 

Does that sound about right or am I way off?  I assume you are not supposed to cut slabs which are not parallel with the center line , i.e. having your cuts pass through that centerline on a low angle?  Although the grain might look interesting that way..

Any help or advice on how to measure, set up or tackle this log would be appreciated!

ManjiSann

Hey Northeaster, sorry for the late reply.

I'm still learning CSM so don't take anything I say as solid advice, just my thoughts based on my limited experience.

A couple things I notice, you have a lot of dirt and ice on that big chunk o tree, you'll want to clean that off as best you can or you'll be going through chains at an amazing rate. In my experience nothing will dull a chain faster than dirt.

I've not bothered to try and line up my cuts based on the pith or anything else other than just how can I get the most boards from a given log. This is probably a mistake and I think I may try and fix it. Your question got me thinking so even if I can't answer it, just know it was a great question and got me thinking about how I could improve how I do things.

Do you have a specific project you want to use this wood for with a specific cut list? If so then you may try and mill to make that cut list. 

Here's my newbiness showing through, you may want to just slab mill it and see what you get. At the very least cut a flitch and see what is under it on that cut. It may be amazing wood or it may be rotten, I don't think you can truly know until you get into it. You're thinking about it right but unfortunately no one really knows what's in a log till they get into it, even the awesome lifelong sawyers on this forum. 

Heh, reading my post I realize it's not very helpful so sorry, I guess I can sum it up with try and line the centers and take a cut and see what happens!  

Be sure to post some pics of the results!

Brandon 
Poulan Pro 5020AV, Husky 390XP

Redmt

I got a Hutzl chainsaw guide with a Stihl 391.
Also collecting for a home built by Texas Ben plans. The scrounging free stuff segment is almost over. Next step it to start spending money!
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Northeaster

Brandon - I have read (and enjoyed) many of your posts on getting started so i definitely appreciate you passing on any hard earned lessons..

My 064 muffler was all cracked in the back (may be my fault as I may have missed a spacer behind it), and rather than pay $90 plus Canadian locally for a new one at the dealer, i am now waiting a month or two... for a $20 one to come from China. So, no milling till it gets here.

I really want to get a couple of nice slabs, as wide as possible (2.5 - 3.5 feet or so) x 8 feet long x about 2.5 or 3 inches thick so I can use a router sled and bring it down to maybe 2 - 2.5" thick and make a epoxy/river type table.  Width and quality will drive what style table I make out of it I guess and if I will be able to use one big slab or 2 matchbook slabs... plan is just to cut it the best way I can, and dry it out for 1-2 years, seeing how it does along the way.

I would really like to hear from experienced members here as to if it is critical to cut parallel to the pith or if it make sense to get wider slabs, can i cut down tyhrough the pith on a slight angle so that one slab will have wood from above the pith on the large end, passing through the pith midway and it will fall below the pith at the small end.. would this result in a stretched look to the grain in all slabs and would this be good/ Ok or not desirable?


scsmith42

In general, your most highly figured wood is in the crotch sections where the limb piths intersect with the main truck pith.  Thus setting the log up so that the largest limbs are on the sides (so that you are milling parallel to the two piths) usually yields the most highly figured lumber.

I prefer to mill parallel to the piths when slabbing, so that the bulk of the pith wood is captured in the center slab.  This also provides the best ray fleck on oak's in the center slab, and slabs taken from each side of the center slab.
Peterson 10" WPF with 65' of track
Smith - Gallagher dedicated slabber
Tom's 3638D Baker band mill
and a mix of log handling heavy equipment.

ManjiSann

Northeaster, glad my posts were of some use and a bit of entertainment :)

Bummer about the muffler :( 

Those epoxy river tables are really cool looking! I really want to try epoxy and see what I can do with it.

I hope you can get a couple good slabs you can epoxy. You'll have to make a thread for that adventure when you do!

Brandon 
Poulan Pro 5020AV, Husky 390XP

Northeaster

SCSmith - thank you for the advice.  I guess in this case, where the log is very rotten on what is now the bottom half, I will have to leave it like that, and cut as is.  If it were not rotten, I could turn it enough to get the other pith / branches more horizontal, so I could cut through their features all in a plane.

Brandon - yes, hopefully at least i can get a slab or two without significant rot...enough for a table.  of even if the rotten parts can be removed and there is still some good woos there, I like the river tables which have alot of epoxy/ cracks and character..

offrink

While making perfect cuts like on a bandsaw mill is preferred it isn't always an option. For me getting a good initial level slab is more important and make sure that the log is stable and won't roll while you cut. Just like on any piece of wood, you will get some cupping if you don't have a centered heart piece. Plan on that. Thicker will be more stable but if you get 1/4" curve from center you will have to take 1/4" on each side to flatten. We typically take 3" slabs but go up or down depending on the wood. 

Northeaster

Offrink - thanks for the advice.  Still waiting on a replacement muffler, but soon I will measure and see who many slabs I can get at about 3" thick, with the first cut an inch or two above the heart crack.  Then, I'll either  go up or down a bit in thickness depending if i am close to "squeezing in" another slab or if no chance, i will go a bit thicker.

Klicker

Welcome Northeaster to the forum. It is good to see another Nova Scotian on the board. Rod
2006 LT 40 HD

Brad_bb

I CSM parallel to the pith.  If you start at the pith, I go up 1/2 slab plus the kerf, and keep going up that amount until you are not going to get a good slab.  Then set up the mill the take your first cut at that height.  

For the first cut, I set up my ladder so that the top of the ladder is the same distance to the pith on each end. I have a granberg mill. 

I'm not sure how your mill works.  I'm not sure if there is a height adjustment?  Or you just have to adjust the height of the ladder?  If that's the case, then do you take a slab off the bottom and then the log drops down to your bed, and then you take another slab off the bottom?  

In any case, I capture the pith in one slab.  

As far as your orientation, it seems like that is already predetermined for this log.  To get max width, you can't rotate it to get both piths in the same plane, nor to get the big branch knot on top rotated to the horizontal plane.  The rotted side is dictating how you will cut this log.  You'll get what you get.

Anything someone can design, I can sure figure out how to fix!
If I say it\\\\\\\'s going to take so long, multiply that by at least 3!

Northeaster

Klicker - thanks for the welcome note!

Brad - my mill or setup was really quickly put together to mill this big log. I could use it for smaller logs, as i did in the pic, by setting up beside the log, but it would be a pain to raise or lower.  I will likely build a traditional Alaskan mill if I want to do smaller logs later.

The plan for this big log is to measure as you describe and cut the top slab first and then keep going down.  This would be done/ adjusted by  screwing on either a 2x4 or long piece of angle iron horizontally, at each end of the log, and then put the ladder across them, bolted or ti wrapping the ladder rungs down for stability. The horizontals would be at the proper height to allow the bar to hit the premarked cut lines. As I get closer to the pith on the rotten/big end, if my horizontals need to be lower than what's left of the log, I will place a couple of big rounds under it and screw them solidly across these ...anything to keep the bar where it needs to be.

I know I may have some bar movement as the tip is not attached.  I and willing to accept this and will just keep my slabs fairly thick so i can router or plane off enough to be even once dry.

Northeaster

Progress...after having to cut apart the 064 aftermarket muffler, as it was slanted as the exhaust port and needed to be vertical...them tig welding a portion of the new one over the cracked area of the old one... she is back and running strong. 

I only had time to mill off one slab, and there is more white dowdy or rotten wood in it than I had hoped...still. there is some nice dark good wood at the far end si I will make something out of it... and see how the other slabs are.

 

 

 


 

Ianab

Quote from: Northeaster on March 21, 2020, 06:35:40 PMthere is more white dowdy or rotten wood in it than I had hoped


They make epoxy "wood hardener" for just that situation. Pour it on, it soaks into the wood, sets hard and reinforces it. Then you carry on to plane / sand / varnish as normal, and have a bar top or whatever. 
Weekend warrior, Peterson JP test pilot, Dolmar 7900 and Stihl MS310 saws and  the usual collection of power tools :)

Northeaster

Thanks for the advice!
I have used wood hardener on window sills, where there was some rot, but not too much.
I hadn't thought of using it on a large slab..

These slabs will be 2.5 to 3 inches thick (6-7.5 cm roughly).  I had planned on stacking, with stickers and covering the top with a piece of tin and drying outside for a year or two before using a router sled to flatten...
Would you dry out and then add wood hardener or would it need to be applied soon, before drying so it doesn't rot more...

Ianab

Quote from: Northeaster on March 21, 2020, 07:31:54 PMWould you dry out and then add wood hardener or would it need to be applied soon, before drying so it doesn't rot more.


Drying is the best way to stop the rot. I'd probably then roughly flatten them with the router and then break out the epoxy to fix whatever problems you have left. You could end up with some loose knots or checks that need patching up with regular epoxy as well. Otherwise you are going to be cutting off much of your hardened wood, and might get down to punky stuff in the centre of the slab.  What's left inside wont matter once it's all finished, as long as it's dry it wont rot any more, and the outside will be nicely sealed up. 
Weekend warrior, Peterson JP test pilot, Dolmar 7900 and Stihl MS310 saws and  the usual collection of power tools :)

Northeaster


Brad_bb

This is what I have used before.  I actually used it on bark on some dry barnwood to keep the bark adhered permanently on some wany sections.
Smith epoxy
Anything someone can design, I can sure figure out how to fix!
If I say it\\\\\\\'s going to take so long, multiply that by at least 3!

Northeaster

Thanks for the recommendation. I will have to see how bad it really is once dry I guess.. I know those products will turn a rotten wood hard but what is the  point where the slabs are too punky or rotten to bother save and use...or if you are happy with the look of them, is is ok if a large part is punky and just pour the epoxy or hardener to it and enjoy? 
Did about 4 more slabs today and the white punky wood took a larger area on each piece.. my setup allowed me to cut wider than I could with an Alaska mill, with my 36" bar, but I did have a couple of deap gouges where I had to cut the widest

 

 vsections from the other side, freehand and from a couple of leaning curves in my setup.
All in all it was a good experience and I will keep my eye out for large logs now..
I may build an Alaskan mill for anything below about 30 or 32" wide

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