Hiring A Forester

[Rabland]

What is considered reasonable for NOT charging a client for information regarding their plans for a property or other questions they may have for the forester and the logging process? Is it reasonable for the client to email plans, have the forester walk a part of your property, and sit down and answer questions before proceeding with a project where the forester charges for his services? Or, is any communication with a forester subject to charges? Where is the line drawn?

[PoginyHill]

If YOU ask a forester (or any contractor) to do specific things (walk your property, answer specific questions, etc...), then I think you should expect to pay for that time. If you ask him for a proposal to do work (develop a management plan) and HE decides to walk your property or ask you questions to establish a quote, then I would expect that to be part of the quoting process. If the understanding is that the quote is free, then I wouldn't expect to pay.

Either way, good communication up front can avoid hassles down the road.

[Texas Ranger]

You are hiring a forester for his education, knowledge and experience.  All hard earned.  I will quote a price for any requests beyond an answer other than "yes" or "no".  You pay for what you get, go to the state agency of your state and ask for assistance.  There again you get what you pay for.

[bigblockyeti]

You pay for what you get, go to the state agency of your state and ask for assistance.  There again you get what you pay for.

I contact the state extension office closest to me (Clemson) and spent a while emailing and talking to a forester but couldn't convince him that walking my property was necessary, though it was and still is something I'm hoping for.  I'm wanting it a bit denser for privacy in a couple of areas but am most interested in the overall health of the forest.
About getting what you pay for, specifically regarding government agencies, remember what Will Rogers said:  "It's a good thing we don't get all the government we pay for."

[Ron Wenrich]

I've done both consulting and procurement forestry.  Its been a number of years, but I've always walked a portion of a property with or without a landowner.  If you're looking for a timber sale, its the only way to assess whether there is merchantable timber.  I know other procurement foresters and timber buyers do that, so its a competition sort of thing. 

The procurement forester is paid by his employer, so they don't charge anything.  The logger will also do it for free.  For the consultant, its more like a job opportunity, and the client is hiring him. 

For an appraisal, I'd like to think that I should be paid.  I wouldn't do a detailed one for free.  For a walk through, the procurement guy is going to give a ballpark figure.  I can do the same thing, but it will be low ball.  Also the explanation will be that a better figure can only be given when the timber is marked.  Both procurement and consultant go by the same thinking.  Marking isn't free for anyone.

This may be a regional thing, but it seems to hold true in my area.  I've always found it worth my time. 

[Rabland]

Thanks. None of us work for our health, but I would think a forester would want a cursory review of the property (overhead?) or a deviated walk-through to see if the project is worth their time before sitting down with a client to talk specifics where charging is totally justified.
What if the forester has a complete MFL review document to look at to give a client a reasonable idea of project feasibility? Should they charge for answering general client questions like potential costs or income from the project?

[Texas Ranger]

Basically, I'll answer questions, give an idea of how I charge, tell them where they fall on my calendar.  If they can identify their property (you would be amazed that some folks can tell you where the property is, and little more) I look it over from aerials, from the office.  If it looks like I can help I will run county appraisal data to check for surprises and run a background check for surprises (Looking for addresses).  Everything checks out we look at the property with contract in hand.

Why all this?  In years of practice, I have seen owners that weren't, other owners showing up, lawsuits on the property.  An example would be undivided heirship. Another is an alleged absentee owner that wanted to sell timber, I took him for his word.  We show up to start a timber marking when a "neighbor" showed up wanting to know what the he11 we were doing on his property.

So, I charge to keep out of court, to do the best most accurate job we can, and not get shot for trespass.

[Texas Ranger]

What if the forester has a complete MFL review document to look at to give a client a reasonable idea of project feasibility? Should they charge for answering general client questions like potential costs or income from the project?

Again, you are using his knowledge, experience, general and know-how for free.  I have done this for a management plan from the state agency and found the agency had no idea of what was on the property, other than the aerials.  
You get what you pay for.

[Ron Wenrich]

Other than a walk through, most foresters in my area aren't going to review another's work for free.  If you want to use their work recommendations, that can be put into use at the time of marking.  Marking timber is not a free service.

[bigblockyeti]

Other than a walk through, most foresters in my area aren't going to review another's work for free.  If you want to use their work recommendations, that can be put into use at the time of marking.  Marking timber is not a free service.

Does anyone work as a forester for a state or extension office?  I'm wondering what I can expect from the guy at the local extension office regarding boots on the ground in my tiny forest.  I'm hoping for more evergreen density for the sake of privacy but with little sun reaching the ground under the deciduous canopy I'm at a loss as to what could be recommended. 

[btulloh]

Kinda depends on your state as to what they will do. Here in VA state forester will come walk it for free and also provide a basic management plan for free, subject to available staff and workload.  Also depends on the individual forester. Like said many times above, marking and detailed inventory etc. will require hiring a consulting forester. Here, the state guy is a good general resource and well worth starting out with unless your goal is mark timber and sell it.  For a significant sale, a hired consultant will provide services and take a percentage of the sale.  It's got to be worth his time, so too small a job will need to be paid directly by the landowner. A good forester is worth paying and money well spent. 

Much good advice in the previous posts.  Pay attention!

[beenthere]

Does anyone work as a forester for a state or extension office?

Answer would be "yes".  Whether they will do a freebie for you to provide the forest you want (i.e evergreen density for the sake of privacy...), maybe not.

[AndyVT]

My experience with state foresters here in Vermont has been great. 
They have done basic walk throughs with me in the early days of us developing a forest management plan[FMP] at no cost.
And have offered advice concerning timber stand improvement with an eye to future sustainable harvest.
Our county forester is a friend who also will do private side jobs so I hired him to update our FMP which in Vermont is part of the current use program. 
This allows landowners to have their forestland taxed on its "use value" instead of its development value thus saving the landowner tax dollars.
His charge for the job on our 52 acres was about $700.

[barbender]

If you are in it's range, balsam fir excels at growing in an understory.

[Ron Wenrich]

There's nothing like having a govt employee take business away from the private sector.  The consultant has a cost to bear for finding work.  That may involve advertising, walking properties for free, and knocking on doors looking for clients.  

The govt employee sidesteps that.  His walk through the woodlot isn't exactly free.  He is being paid by the taxpayer.  Then, after he has found the job, he takes side money to take the work from the consultant.  If the govt forester doesn't get any work, he still has a paycheck.

In PA, the consultants fought pretty hard to get rid of govt competition.  What govt foresters do now is give information to the landowner.  They walk the woodlot, then give the landowner a list of foresters who will do the work.  The list also contains sawmills and loggers that have a 4 yr degree in Forest Mgmt. They are not allowed to make any recommendations on which forester to chose.  Most public and private foresters went to school together, so there is often that connection.  

It is up to the landowner to do his homework on hiring a forester.  We have a paper company that does some pretty decent mgmt work on some really large areas.  There's also some loggers that are good.  It doesn't have to be a consultant.

[moodnacreek]

The land owner starts his home work when the last log truck leaves.  A good gov't employee will mention to the owner who not to call, legal or not.

[beenthere]

There's nothing like having a govt employee take business away from the private sector. 

In PA, the consultants fought pretty hard to get rid of govt competition.  What govt foresters do now is give information to the landowner. 

That happened in WI several years ago, and no longer will the state foresters write up management plans for a forest owner. 

[bigblockyeti]

I had a state forester do a walk through with me on Monday and it was very helpful.  I picked his brain and he offered suggestions for about an hour.  He confirmed what I suspected that the majority of the pines are Virginia pines and what needs to be done to help the overall health of the woods.  It's already at peak density and nothing should be done regarding more planting except where some trees are down and there's more sunlight hitting the ground.  He recommended cedar for an evergreen that offers a bit of privacy and didn't really have much to say about arborvitae other that it's good from a landscaping point of view.  He also identified a hybrid bradford pear tree with some nasty, long thorns on it, don't remember the exact name he had for it, but it's invasive and spreads pretty quickly if not watched closely.  I've seen it trying to come up in the neighbor's fence that is on the property line and I've cut it away every time.  The tree is nasty but does bloom with nice white flowers in the spring along with the proper bradford pears.

That was pretty much the extent of the "plan" he helped me put together as none of this has value as timber besides the few trees I occasionally pull out to throw on the mill or downed trees I buck up for firewood.  I don't think a consulting forester would have had much else if anything to add, I was very pleased with the information he was able to give me.

[Texas Ranger]

Texas A&M Forest Service Foresters still write management plans for landowners.  Several years ago I challenged them with a meeting including a state representative.  They sat through it, thanked me and left.  The state rep was useless. The State Code of Education gives them the right to provide management services, but they must charge for it.  They ignore that last bit.

[bigblockyeti]

If you paid your taxes, you paid for it.

[Texas Ranger]

If you paid your taxes, you paid for it.

Yes, but the code says the service must charge for the plan, they do not, in effect a state agency in competition with private companies, for free.  Similar to the highway department building driveways for the public.

[Seachaser]

I had the State Forester out just to have a second opinion.  The first opinion was better.