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Saw-chain type for felling

Started by 54Dutchman, December 18, 2015, 12:34:33 PM

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Skeans1

@Walnut Beast 
If you're going to run square get a square grinder and have enough chains to run for the day plus one or two extra just in case. Don't worry about filing it if production is a must because if the corner is off you're done, too high and it's dull and too low you get a beak which cuts great for a minute. Another thing to think about is the angles you're running depending on what you're cutting that will probably change as well, different species I have different angles I run as well as different times of the year. Just for an idea out of the box square is worthless it doesn't cut well at all, it normally needs the rakers taken down and normally once you get a decent grind it'll come alive.

As far as semi skip it's fine but with the shorter bars depending on how aggressive the chain is and what sprocket you're running you'll probably want full comp. 

Walnut Beast

Skeans I might want to re think things . The 404 Stihl chain I was thinking about only came in full skip. I think I will go with the Stihl Rapid Super. They don't show it in the new catalog but it must be offered in the big spools because Baileys has the Stihl chain and will make it to length. Appreciate the insight!

beenthere

Bailey's is not an authorized Stihl dealer. Might this chain be a knock-off from China? 
south central Wisconsin
It may be that my sole purpose in life is simply to serve as a warning to others

lxskllr

They deal in grey market Stihl. I don't know where they get their stuff, but it's an irregular supply. I ordered 25' of chain from them via amazon, and it came as a partly used 100' reel. I guess I got 25'. I didn't measure it.

moodnacreek

Chisel chain allows you to cut with the tip of the bar. Chisel chain is sharpened to an exact point and that alone makes it aggressive. That point dulls quickly compared to chipper or simi chisel. Carry a file and use it.

Nealm66

You might check madsens in centralia Washington for the chain in a loop you're looking for. They ship all over the world. You can round file chisel chain with decent results. It won't cut like a chisel grind but still better than round file chain. Chisel grinding at least for me took quite a while to get dialed in. I've wore out three chisel grinders through the years and it's always a struggle getting a new one setup. There are a few out there that can hand file and I've had the privilege to work around one but it was just for touching up in mt st Hellen's ash otherwise he said it was better to grind. I'd probably just try round filing to start is what I'm saying

Old Greenhorn

There is Square chisel and Round chisel. The round filed has a square corner on the outside of the tooth but is sharpened with a round file so it's a bit of a compromise. The square filed has a square corner on the outside and the inside of the tooth and you need a 6 corner file or equivalent. It's a big difference (to me). There are no fancy guides for square filing, you have to learn to do it by hand and if the inside filed corner does not break out exactly where the outside square corner is, you are wasting your time and it will cut poorly. Most of the production fallers use a Silvey grinder to sharpen their square chains which does a perfect job with the right operator.
 Square filing takes time a patience to learn, but I found it worthwhile. I also found sharpening in the field to go fairly easy too and faster without a guide. However, a rocked Square filed chain takes a long time to bring back into form, so care in cutting habits are more important. I just got out of the habit and now run all X-cut chains which cut great.
Tom Lindtveit, Woodsman Forest Products
Oscar 328 Band Mill, Husky 350, 450, 562, & 372 (Clone), Mule 3010, and too many hand tools. :) Retired and trying to make a living to stay that way. NYLT Certified.
OK, maybe I'm the woodcutter now.
I work with wood, There is a rumor I might be a woodworker.

Nealm66

That's the problem with chisel grinding or chisel filling vs round filing is if you don't get the corners and the angles right you might as well put it on backwards 

Nealm66

It's funny how the falling industry going more mechanized has funneled down the chisel grinder design. There used to be some elaborate devices out there. Madsens had Silvey copy a simington design and now that's all Silvey makes. This basic design was considered a  low end grinder or a starter grinder they referred to it. Now they're at the top of the heap.

Real1shepherd

Quote from: Old Greenhorn on January 22, 2023, 10:13:18 AM
There is Square chisel and Round chisel. The round filed has a square corner on the outside of the tooth but is sharpened with a round file so it's a bit of a compromise. The square filed has a square corner on the outside and the inside of the tooth and you need a 6 corner file or equivalent. It's a big difference (to me). There are no fancy guides for square filing, you have to learn to do it by hand and if the inside filed corner does not break out exactly where the outside square corner is, you are wasting your time and it will cut poorly. Most of the production fallers use a Silvey grinder to sharpen their square chains which does a perfect job with the right operator.
Square filing takes time a patience to learn, but I found it worthwhile. I also found sharpening in the field to go fairly easy too and faster without a guide. However, a rocked Square filed chain takes a long time to bring back into form, so care in cutting habits are more important. I just got out of the habit and now run all X-cut chains which cut great.
There were hand jigs for filing square file chains made by Granberg. I have one, it worked great but suffered over the many yrs from being made of mostly pot metal. I have plans to make one out of the current jig they sell but have gotten zero interest from anybody with machinist tools. I've posted on forums about this and even approached a local machinist who was talking crazy money.

There's a guy on AS that said he'd make the ends for me.....I guess I should prod him one more time. I have pics of the complete Granberg square file unit(Model G-107, Chisel Bit), but it says I can't upload these extensions I pulled off of Google. They quit making the square file unit in the late 80's.

There are also fixed guides for square file 3/8" chain.....I don't remember the name offhand, but they are somewhat spendy. They don't do .404 full skip

Kevin

Nealm66

One advantage to chisel filling vs the basic grinders offered today is the ability to be more corner to corner without grinding into the side straps. Maybe it would be feasible to modify one of the mounted style round file guides but one would have to have a good understanding of what the end product should be. I'd say this would be the difficult part. You could copy a factory but would be leaving a bit on the table 

Skeans1

Quote from: Nealm66 on January 22, 2023, 11:03:33 AM
It's funny how the falling industry going more mechanized has funneled down the chisel grinder design. There used to be some elaborate devices out there. Madsens had Silvey copy a simington design and now that's all Silvey makes. This basic design was considered a  low end grinder or a starter grinder they referred to it. Now they're at the top of the heap.
Silvey is gone has been for years. As far as grinders go the swing arm is ok and the only thing that's available now, but personally I prefer our pro sharp it has more adjustment.

Walnut Beast

Quote from: beenthere on January 21, 2023, 10:21:05 PM
Bailey's is not an authorized Stihl dealer. Might this chain be a knock-off from China?
This should answer your question

  

Walnut Beast

Quote from: lxskllr on January 21, 2023, 10:48:20 PM
They deal in grey market Stihl. I don't know where they get their stuff, but it's an irregular supply. I ordered 25' of chain from them via amazon, and it came as a partly used 100' reel. I guess I got 25'. I didn't measure it.
I find that hard to believe! So what did you do to resolve the problem?  I ordered a cannon chainsaw bar from them recently  and it came fast and brand new

Ianab

Don't think there was anything to resolve? If he thought he was being ripped off in some way he would have measured it, and complained if it was short. But if you order 25 ft, and get what looks like 25ft, it doesn't really matter if it's 1/4 of a 100 ft roll.  

My guess is that 4 x 25 spools is worth more than a 100 ft spool. Not everyone want's 100 ft of chain though. So breaking it into 4 smaller packs probably saves a few dollars. As long as everyone get's their fair 25 ft length there isn't a problem. 
Weekend warrior, Peterson JP test pilot, Dolmar 7900 and Stihl MS310 saws and  the usual collection of power tools :)

lxskllr

Like Ian said, it isn't really a problem. Factory sealed boxes are nice, but in the end, I probably got the 25' of chain I ordered. I didn't measure it, so it could be more or less. I got a bunch of tiestraps. It's more than half a 100' reel of ties.

It isn't illegal or against any kind of terms for Baileys to sell Stihl stuff, but whoever's supplying them could get in trouble if Stihl found out if it's coming from an official dealer; it probably is, or more likely, several dealers.

moodnacreek

Have any of you ever seen the Mt. Saint Helens chainsaw chain with the scraper teeth?

Nealm66

Never heard of it. I cut for 6-7 years around st Hellen's before the owl shut us down. It was hard on chains. Had to chop the bark off where it was feasible to get any kind of lifespan. 

Walnut Beast

Quote from: lxskllr on January 23, 2023, 07:52:00 AM
Like Ian said, it isn't really a problem. Factory sealed boxes are nice, but in the end, I probably got the 25' of chain I ordered. I didn't measure it, so it could be more or less. I got a bunch of tiestraps. It's more than half a 100' reel of ties.

It isn't illegal or against any kind of terms for Baileys to sell Stihl stuff, but whoever's supplying them could get in trouble if Stihl found out if it's coming from an official dealer; it probably is, or more likely, several dealers.
I don't blame you for making sure you get what you paid for! I wouldn't like it either! 

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