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General Forestry => Forestry and Logging => Topic started by: Firewoodjoe on August 24, 2020, 07:18:21 PM

Title: Log prices
Post by: Firewoodjoe on August 24, 2020, 07:18:21 PM
Are you guys seeing any changes or heard anything? Just curious. 
Title: Re: Log prices
Post by: Dave Shepard on August 24, 2020, 08:16:59 PM
Not in the loop at the moment, but Log Street Journal posted on FB that prices were soaring due to renovation demand. I don't know the validity of that. I may be cutting some nice hardwood this fall if the prices are decent. 
Title: Re: Log prices
Post by: nativewolf on August 24, 2020, 08:29:01 PM
Only good logs info but here it is: RO has popped back up with the exporters% $800 for 2-3 side clear stuff and 1500 for good butts.  Hickory doing ok, WO still strong.  Canadian mills desperate for wood, they'll truck many times- for you guys in MI I bet that's not a terrible option.  All in all yes.  Not sure what Sugar Maple is doing right now, maybe @ehp (https://forestryforum.com/board/index.php?action=profile;u=1195) could chime in.  

Title: Re: Log prices
Post by: quilbilly on August 24, 2020, 09:08:17 PM
Pnw softwood markets are hot. Hardwood not so much 
Title: Re: Log prices
Post by: moodnacreek on August 24, 2020, 09:32:24 PM
If it's going to get good again October should be the month.  Got a load of r.oak/ash baking here and 'my' buyer won't come for less than a truck and pup.
Title: Re: Log prices
Post by: BargeMonkey on August 24, 2020, 10:39:47 PM
I can definitively tell you after thursday, hope to ship 3 triaxle load of decent wood. Buyer has told me to stay out of the good wood, real nice maple, after Halloween it's supposed to really come back. 
Title: Re: Log prices
Post by: Firewoodjoe on August 25, 2020, 04:55:00 AM
Interesting. Seems you here good and bad. Thatís what Iím Iím told here lol  ďWe canít pay a lot but we need it bad when can we get itĒ 
Title: Re: Log prices
Post by: WDH on August 25, 2020, 06:33:51 AM
Southern Pine log prices are not increasing.  Plenty of supply.  Lumber market is hot, though. 
Title: Re: Log prices
Post by: mike_belben on August 25, 2020, 06:36:26 AM
So its like southern beef prices then?  

Empty shelves at peak prices but down for the grower.  Something in the middle doesnt make sense. Like every other covid anomoly.
Title: Re: Log prices
Post by: Firewoodjoe on August 25, 2020, 07:05:54 AM
So its like southern beef prices then?  

Empty shelves at peak prices but down for the grower.  Something in the middle doesnt make sense. Like every other covid anomoly.
I think a lot of that is going on now. Iím seeing a little more iron for sale too. Everyone is working so I think itís just spare machines they want to get sold before the buyers are broke. 
Title: Re: Log prices
Post by: mike_belben on August 25, 2020, 07:12:39 AM
With money dilution coming on strong in the coming years theyre gonna see their old iron prices double and wish they kept em to sell at the new price.  Same as everyone on earth said about their chevelle or dart or skylark etc etc.   Im not saying an old skidder is worth more but rather the future dollars are worth less.

Id speculate thats whats happening to housing prices.  Despite a very shaky boom bust economy and overall destabilizing national conditions, real estate is skyrocketing.  Im pretty comfident thats being lead by genuine wealth simply buying houses as a hedge against the printing press. Id snatch all the land i could right now.
Title: Re: Log prices
Post by: Banjo picker on August 25, 2020, 07:30:08 AM
With money dilution....

future dollars are worth less.

Yesterday Deb and I went by a little hole in the wall burger joint that I use to go when I was a kid with my dad.  Burgers then were 10 cents now they are $1.00.  And not quite as good.  Dad bought a New Plymouth for $3000.00.  Now you can get something similar for $30,000.  Probably not as sturdy.  Burgers and cars have went up 10 times.  Minimum wage when I was in school was $1.65.  What is it now?  I donít know.  But if you want any decent help you will pay them 10 times that amount.  That Trent will likely continue.  Tim
Title: Re: Log prices
Post by: mike_belben on August 25, 2020, 08:34:55 AM
That is the real "inflation" measure.   Which is intentional disinformation itself.  "2 ways to conquer: By the sword or by debt."  Inflation is when more existing dollars of a hard backed currency at a fixed exchange rate are suddenly conjured into an area by an increase in genuine enterprise..and the sudden rush of cash is competing for the same, slow to increase volume of goods and services.  Vendors raise their price in order to modulate demand down to what is manageable for them to produce.  They can only turn out so many widgits once you hit 3 shifts.


You cannot have inflation with a fiat currency by printing and injecting more of it by central banks and direct mailed govt "stimulus."  That is dilution.  The treasury/fed just wont admit it.


BK & Ford didnt water down the whopper or the F350.  The fed watered down the paper we buy them with and weve all become slaves to printing press dilution that really got rolling under 2big2fail and hasnt let up.  Your savings can never keep up so you can never quit slaving.

The only way to fix our economy is to burn the currency, not issue more.  Consumer prices would immediately fall.  

You cant borrow your way out of debt but you can sink a country that way. When they stop minting coins and printing small bills, a revolution is usually soon to follow. 
Title: Re: Log prices
Post by: timberking on August 25, 2020, 04:11:47 PM
Second the motion on SYP saw timber still being soft.
Title: Re: Log prices
Post by: ehp on August 25, 2020, 05:15:27 PM
Im getting the same as last couple years , good high grade maple donot cut but I cut the rest , if good butt logs but not veneer I have been getting $150/1000 more than before . But I do feel a raise should becoming soon
Title: Re: Log prices
Post by: nativewolf on August 25, 2020, 08:02:52 PM
Long time no hear @ehp (https://forestryforum.com/board/index.php?action=profile;u=1195), how are things in Canada?  AMEX keeps begging for wood but they don't raise prices very quickly (though they finally are starting to).  Weather been good?  
Title: Re: Log prices
Post by: BAN on August 26, 2020, 10:42:20 AM
Peelers have jumped $100 thousand but pine and Hew haven't moved yet.
Title: Re: Log prices
Post by: ehp on August 26, 2020, 04:49:41 PM
everything is fine here , been a real hot summer . Been doing stuff with my kids and wife plus logging.  Been talking to other mills as they just show up on my landing , all of us feel the same way . Next year its going to suck and everything is going to slow down or stop . Hard maple took a good move up today but the top veneer is still pretty bad . Had another mill email me a price list today but all they want is low grade but the price they put on the price list was so low you would be a fool to cut for that price . I mean it was so low I have never seen log prices like that , well maybe in 1970
Title: Re: Log prices
Post by: Cub on August 26, 2020, 05:44:14 PM
Depressed prices would be an understatement. The 2 verso pulp mills north of me that just about everyone hauls to has shut everyone off until end of September at least. They put most on quota starting in July. Bolt prices dropped 20-30 dollars a cord and everyone is full. Sawlog prices are half of last year and no verneer market for anything. I sure hope things turn around fast. I have lots of wood to cut this fall and winter. 
Title: Re: Log prices
Post by: nativewolf on August 26, 2020, 08:20:56 PM
Depressed prices would be an understatement. The 2 verso pulp mills north of me that just about everyone hauls to has shut everyone off until end of September at least. They put most on quota starting in July. Bolt prices dropped 20-30 dollars a cord and everyone is full. Sawlog prices are half of last year and no verneer market for anything. I sure hope things turn around fast. I have lots of wood to cut this fall and winter.
Yeah WI took a hit with the two mills closing.  Sorry to hear about the tough situation there.  Veneer may pick up soon as the cool weather returns (for you in about a month  :D).  We actually hear of overseas demand increasing so maybe that will move your sawtimber and veneer up.  
Lots of Ponsse guys are on the way to Louisiana tonight, looking to do salvage cleanup following the hurricane.  Maybe that will take some supply off the market? 
Title: Re: Log prices
Post by: nativewolf on August 26, 2020, 08:22:26 PM
everything is fine here , been a real hot summer . Been doing stuff with my kids and wife plus logging.  Been talking to other mills as they just show up on my landing , all of us feel the same way . Next year its going to suck and everything is going to slow down or stop . Hard maple took a good move up today but the top veneer is still pretty bad . Had another mill email me a price list today but all they want is low grade but the price they put on the price list was so low you would be a fool to cut for that price . I mean it was so low I have never seen log prices like that , well maybe in 1970
Sometimes I wonder what these bottom fishers are doing?  I really can't believe people send them wood.
Title: Re: Log prices
Post by: Cub on August 29, 2020, 08:10:45 AM
Yeah itís definitely tough going here. Iím not sure what a lot of guys are going to do. I have a feeling the pulp mills will keep most shut off past September. They are hauling lots of wood from Wisconsin rapids up here so I think they will process that before they open back up. Heard around 20,000 cord they have  sitting in the yard down there. Not sure what will happen going forward. I think there will be some bankruptcies and bank owned equipment for sale in the next few months. 
Title: Re: Log prices
Post by: OH logger on August 29, 2020, 09:21:47 PM
Stumpage is CRAZY high here right now. Iím not even lookin at bid sales. Donít wanna lose money and work for nothin. If I wAnt excersize Iíll buy a treadmill 
Title: Re: Log prices
Post by: Firewoodjoe on August 30, 2020, 12:07:41 AM
Hmm maybe someone knows something we donít.  
Title: Re: Log prices
Post by: SwampDonkey on August 30, 2020, 05:58:58 AM
Marketing board here still showing old hardwood log prices since June, so not changing much. The sawmill will likely see the raise because up here they have a steady supply of public owned wood. Without that the mill doesn't get built. The mill sets purchase price for that wood, not DNR. There is no bid process.
Title: Re: Log prices
Post by: nativewolf on August 30, 2020, 08:07:08 AM
Yeah itís definitely tough going here. Iím not sure what a lot of guys are going to do. I have a feeling the pulp mills will keep most shut off past September. They are hauling lots of wood from Wisconsin rapids up here so I think they will process that before they open back up. Heard around 20,000 cord they have  sitting in the yard down there. Not sure what will happen going forward. I think there will be some bankruptcies and bank owned equipment for sale in the next few months.
Wow...that would mean they'd start the fall/winter really not needing the wood.  Terrible. 
I would expect it is a good time to find some redpine or something that saws into a 2x4 (conifers).  Down here even though the lumber prices are sky high the mills have not budged on pine logs,  somethings rotten.  
Title: Re: Log prices
Post by: Cub on August 30, 2020, 08:44:22 AM
Almost impossible to move pine now. Has been all summer. Potlach in Gwinn hasnít been sawing much for studs. And they had a full yard before the virus stuff started. Escanaba pulp mill uses lots of pine. Yard is full. Lots of guys were getting 1 truck load a month for quota. Aspen same thing. Lp mill hasnít taken much to make osb. Running half crew up there. Itís been tough to get rid of anything. Things moved all summer. Just really slow. Itís like what do you even cut. Just donít know how long it will sit on the landing and dry out n get lighter. 
Title: Re: Log prices
Post by: mike_belben on August 30, 2020, 08:48:59 AM
Something definitely rotten.  


Store beef prices through the roof, but cows are dirt cheep at the stockyard auction and the custom slaughterers have a 2 yr appointment lead now.

  Lumber, plywood and osb flying off the shelf at record prices, but the mills arent buying.  


These are some seriously peculiar supply chain anomolies.
Title: Re: Log prices
Post by: Ed_K on August 30, 2020, 09:03:43 AM
The spf on the exchange made it to almost $900.mbf now it down to $790. and going down.
Title: Re: Log prices
Post by: quilbilly on August 30, 2020, 09:51:09 AM
Just trying to piece together what I see here, but it seems like where there is some competition for wood from exporters, the market is a bit higher and more reflective of the cost at the lumber yard. 

We have had a huge jump YoY and it's expected to hold through the elections. Went from no work in the late spring to 6 months lined up in a few weeks, at higher rate than normal too. 

People here want to leave Seattle and Portland bad and are buying anything they can get their hands on to start building houses.
Title: Re: Log prices
Post by: stavebuyer on August 30, 2020, 10:03:49 AM
Commodity pricing is always about supply and demand; but that does not mean that supply/demand is in balance through the entire  production chain. Covid19 caused supply chain chaos. Stuff in the store got wild because demand exceeded supply at the retail level. Plant closures at meat and egg processing plants made shelf ready product in high demand. No reason to buy beef on the hoof if your plant is not running so yes over-supply on the farm and under supply on the store shelf can happen and pricing at both ends of the chain reflect different realities. No conspiracy and if you don't have product to sell you aren't getting rich selling at the new high price because you have little to sell.

Lumber is the same. Shutdowns that weren't forced by the government still resulted. Some by management scaling back in an uncertain environment, some by labor shortages even with widespread unemployment. Not a single mill I deal with is able to keep adequate workers to maintain full production. Fear and government incentives to not work plays a part. Framing lumber is high because they big mills can't produce enough to meet the demand they didn't expect and don't have the workers to produce. Paying extra for logs that are not in short supply makes no sense. Log prices will not move until log demand exceeds log supply. Producers never set pricing in commodity markets; supply and demand does. Traders had to pay to get rid of crude oil for a couple days but the mini-mart is never going to pay you to put gas in your tank. Not a conspiracy just supply and demand doing its thing. Big prices will either curb demand or increase production.
Title: Re: Log prices
Post by: mike_belben on August 30, 2020, 11:08:06 AM
I was driving a truck into the same plants i always did through mid May and everything was pumping while toilet paper and hand sanitizer were gone.  

I never saw a "shutdown" anywhere.  Not a sawmill, brickplant, block, mulch, coils, hardie board, pressure treater.  Heck my last backhaul was that hardie board out of plant city FL and there was 7 staging lanes of trucks completely full, trucks all over the entrance road and a flagger waving us away.  Thats atleast 4x more loads booked than normal and they averaged 120 truck loads a day normal.   I got a load of drainage tile out of south georgia to bounce home. Plant looked normal there too.

I read about closures that would disrupt supply chains.  But i saw none. And i probably drove into more industrial locations than your average bear.  The pulp trucks never stopped running on 68 or 127 either.  atlanta journal said the everglades were plowing fruit under but i was there next morning.. No fresh tillage to be seen.  This is the only tractor i ever saw working in 7 trips to south florida and hes mucking irrigation.


(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/43722/0312200920a.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1598799240)


The contractor i was delivering to hardscapes for citrus barons.. Said he hadnt heard of this fruit crisis and his projects are in the $ million range.  But how did i get into FL?  The news said theres roadblocks all over?  Nope.  75 was wide open.  Scale and ag checkpoints were even closed.  

Call me crazy i dont care,all i said was somethings fishy.  Just tellin you the honest truth of what i witnessed first hand.  Lord strike me dead if im lying.


These kinda lines to pick up TP and water were a month long. Plants were on mandatory OT.   This demand insanity should always raise input prices under any circumstance.  Youd need a concentration yard the size of rhode island for this much TP demand not to spike pulp prices.



(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/43722/766170E9-4744-40F7-B1A5-125C0B29AA71.jpeg?easyrotate_cache=1598799315)




(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/43722/17B2B35A-62E5-4816-BB03-9F9565D08BE2.jpeg?easyrotate_cache=1598799208)




(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/43722/04CE1D81-9ECA-4AF6-A0E4-B2782FDC3A4D.jpeg?easyrotate_cache=1598799316)
Title: Re: Log prices
Post by: ehp on September 05, 2020, 10:12:33 PM
up here most lumber yards are pretty bare , lots of stuff is sold out and whatever you get the price is up 50% , HMMMM I wonder when my price goes up . 
Title: Re: Log prices
Post by: ehp on September 05, 2020, 10:22:19 PM
OH Logger its the same here , mills are paying crazy prices for standing timber . 
Title: Re: Log prices
Post by: thecfarm on September 06, 2020, 09:02:06 AM
Now that's a line of trucks!!!   :o
What do you do, wait in line for 6 hours to be loaded?
Title: Re: Log prices
Post by: Ed_K on September 06, 2020, 10:22:55 AM
 Last week I posted that the price of 1k bf of spf was up to almost $900. I checked yesterday afternoon and it's down below $670. a thousand.
Title: Re: Log prices
Post by: Firewoodjoe on September 06, 2020, 12:25:35 PM
I donít understand how things can be so different up and down all ever the place. I think itís just uncertainty in the future that is controlling the market right now. I have worked lined up for the rest of the year so I hope it stays that way. My work I mean. 
Title: Re: Log prices
Post by: BargeMonkey on September 06, 2020, 02:29:37 PM
Chinese are still taking it as fast as it goes in the boxes, saw 2x debarkers and iron going the other day filling boxes when I dropped wood off. Decent ash, not the best couple sticks of maple and I averaged 700 straight thru. 
Title: Re: Log prices
Post by: ehp on September 06, 2020, 08:21:28 PM
China shut down all containers up here a week ago , said they are full of red oak and ash and walnut
Title: Re: Log prices
Post by: mike_belben on September 07, 2020, 12:17:03 AM
Now that's a line of trucks!!!   :o
What do you do, wait in line for 6 hours to be loaded?
Probably more like 16. Thats why the govt had to suspend the hours of service. 
Title: Re: Log prices
Post by: dnash on September 07, 2020, 09:48:20 AM
China shut down all containers up here a week ago , said they are full of red oak and ash and walnut
That sucks...I spoke to one of the bigger exporters over your way a month and a half ago and he said he had just got an order for 30 containers a month of red oak. Hopefully it gets sorted soon.
Title: Re: Log prices
Post by: mudfarmer on September 07, 2020, 11:38:08 AM
There is a log buyer/concentration yard about 10 miles from me, having a hard time even getting a price sheet from them ::)
Title: Re: Log prices
Post by: Woodfarmer on September 07, 2020, 01:05:23 PM
 China got several triaxle and pup loads of my ash over the last 3 years.
Title: Re: Log prices
Post by: ehp on September 07, 2020, 02:57:31 PM
ya Im pretty sure the guy your talking about is sitting and if you didnot know his Dad had a heart attack couple weeks ago, they put 4 splints in him so he seems ok, the one problem was a certain mill in the prov. besides us sent some containers that had bugs in them . That is a real big no no . So now every container has to be done proper and is inspected . They got so much red oak over there they have no idea on what to do with it and the price shows . The containers guys had another loop hole to ship stuff but that also got shut down hard so we will see 
Title: Re: Log prices
Post by: ehp on September 07, 2020, 03:00:19 PM
But that same guy were talking about is looking for hard maple 300,000 feet and paying very well and its not the high grade veneer , more like rotary veneer grade stuff , its alot more than what the mills here are paying
Title: Re: Log prices
Post by: nativewolf on September 10, 2020, 12:36:40 PM
AMEX, canadian mill, has opened a facility in east/central PA to buy logs, looking for WO (like everyone else).  


Anyone have any quartersaw log news?  My current buyer is good but this project could cover him up, especially in the larger chestnut oaks (who knows what they'll look like once dropped, CO is notorious for staining).  
Title: Re: Log prices
Post by: ehp on September 10, 2020, 08:40:57 PM
amex gets very few logs around here , I know guys that have tried them for a couple loads but go back to the normal mills here
Title: Re: Log prices
Post by: nativewolf on September 10, 2020, 09:40:03 PM
amex gets very few logs around here , I know guys that have tried them for a couple loads but go back to the normal mills here
Yeah the pricing is not so great, international scale on small walnut is good though.   They have a competitor I hear, don't know who they are..V something?   
Northwest Hardwoods rumors continue to abound, they closed the export facility operated at the inland port of Virginia in Front Royal (last season).  Put a lot of smaller exporters in VA in a hard spot.  
Title: Re: Log prices
Post by: ehp on September 11, 2020, 06:44:09 PM
there is a couple bigger mills over in Quebec buying hardwood  , there is not alot of good hardwood left over there so thats why their looking everywhere to get more. There is a area that has good yellow birch just east of ontario border in Quebec and its a fairly big area and yellow birch is the most common tree . Lots of birch veneer in it 
Title: Re: Log prices
Post by: nativewolf on September 18, 2020, 09:10:04 AM
Rift WO veneer pricing is in at $ 3-7/bdft.  We'll see how some do, not really happy on the wood quality but we've got size.
Title: Re: Log prices
Post by: ehp on September 18, 2020, 07:03:15 PM
ya were the same here as before but no where near  the  log prices that your getting , I wish I had the veneer markets you guys have .  I see alot of post loggers make with pictures of veneer and I can not sell those for number 1 saw logs 
Title: Re: Log prices
Post by: Firewoodjoe on September 18, 2020, 07:23:40 PM
I donít understand how prices can be all over the place. I mean they ship milk thousands of miles so what does it matter where the location is on logs.
Title: Re: Log prices
Post by: Ianab on September 18, 2020, 08:03:13 PM
Mills pay the same price at their yard, but it costs a LOT more to ship logs 500 miles vs 5 miles,  Difference shows in the value of the logs on the landing. 

Here in NZ you want your forest within ~50 miles of a mill or port, otherwise the trucking starts to eat up too much of the value. 

Rail is more cost effective over longer distances, but it still means double handling and increases the costs. 
Title: Re: Log prices
Post by: nativewolf on September 18, 2020, 08:16:24 PM
ya were the same here as before but no where near  the  log prices that your getting , I wish I had the veneer markets you guys have .  I see alot of post loggers make with pictures of veneer and I can not sell those for number 1 saw logs

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/34089/75E7BE92-954D-4F7E-8013-999BC480217E.jpeg?easyrotate_cache=1600474522)
Title: Re: Log prices
Post by: nativewolf on September 18, 2020, 08:22:50 PM
Takes a big wo to get that price.  But if you have them ask for it.  This is one tree.  

Other pricing news:  poplar is at $600 for butt logs, way below the prices of 2 years ago but better than this spring.  

Title: Re: Log prices
Post by: ehp on September 18, 2020, 09:10:03 PM
ya I see white oak that big but the color of the wood is whiter than yours cause of the whiter sand they grow on, Veneer mill tells me it cost $800/1000 for shipping of veneer from here to their mill but still the best I would normally see for white oak is $3 a ft maybe $4 on a real good day in USA money, if your talking Tulip ya I have pretty much always gotten $600 for logs here. I donot cut much right here of it. I need to go west 50 or so miles and alot more of it over there. If your talking aspen I try and walk by that as much as I can, aspen, cottonwood , spruce is worth nothing here , $200/1000 once you pay trucking 
Title: Re: Log prices
Post by: ehp on September 18, 2020, 09:10:59 PM
some nice looking trees in that picture standing
Title: Re: Log prices
Post by: Southside on September 18, 2020, 09:31:18 PM
I mean they ship milk thousands of miles so what does it matter where the location is on logs.


Federal Milk Order sets the price on how milk is paid and I am not kidding when I say there are only a select group of several people who know the magic formula and decide on how it will be applied this month.  If you sell commodity milk to a co-op then you are stuck with this system.  In some cases you have to buy the right to get the top price, or any price sometimes, and the "credits" (the name varies with the State you are in) you own are not worth the paper they are printed on as nothing stands behind them and the State can simply ignore them tomorrow should they choose. Not something you want to see in the timber industry.

Maine has it's own commission that sets the price on milk so it's not part of the FMO, but it's a mess just the same.  

Oh - and the farmer pays the trucking, then the milk plant pays a fee to the State and Fed for every gallon of milk processed, for advertising you know.  This is above and beyond sales taxes, local taxes, income taxes, fuel taxes, etc.  It's along the same lines as the Forest Use Tax I have to pay for every log I buy or harvest then put through the mill.  

Keep the bureaucrats out of it.  
Title: Re: Log prices
Post by: mike_belben on September 18, 2020, 11:16:32 PM
Sorta off topic but one thing i did hear first hand about covid was a milk hauler dumping a tanker load for the first time in his long career.  Just no place to haul it when national school demand suddenly stopped.  
Title: Re: Log prices
Post by: nativewolf on September 19, 2020, 05:45:27 AM
ya I see white oak that big but the color of the wood is whiter than yours cause of the whiter sand they grow on, Veneer mill tells me it cost $800/1000 for shipping of veneer from here to their mill but still the best I would normally see for white oak is $3 a ft maybe $4 on a real good day in USA money, if your talking Tulip ya I have pretty much always gotten $600 for logs here. I donot cut much right here of it. I need to go west 50 or so miles and alot more of it over there. If your talking aspen I try and walk by that as much as I can, aspen, cottonwood , spruce is worth nothing here , $200/1000 once you pay trucking
I think $4 is about what that butt brings (center bottom).  The veneer mill should pay the trucking.  Are there any veneer export buyers?  Right now light is right.  I was talking tulip poplar, yellow poplar.  It had fallen to $400.  Guys were so desperate they were selling fine logs at $40/ton for yellow poplar peelers, peeling mill was just flooded.  Those logs should have sold for $80/ton.
I'll post some more pics in the cutting thread.  It is a pleasure to be on this site.
Title: Re: Log prices
Post by: ehp on September 19, 2020, 03:14:17 PM
veneer does pay trucking but they take it off the top to start with, hard maple use to get good money but not right now $7 to $8 a ft was about normal here for the high grade 
Title: Re: Log prices
Post by: Firewoodjoe on September 19, 2020, 07:32:41 PM
Iíve never heard of prices like you guys are talking. Best Iíve ever heard was $5 for hard maple going to China and that was a few years ago. Now $2-$3 is great if you get it. And best ever heard in number one was $1.20. Years ago. Milk gets dumped everyday FYI. Know one knows it though. Always has. 
Title: Re: Log prices
Post by: ehp on September 19, 2020, 09:08:16 PM
ya like most veneer buyers will tell you , right where I am is the best hard maple veneer that grows , the heart is a pencil dot and snow white in color. Biggest problem here is cause it was worth so much guys would go in and just cut the top veneer and leave, next is the sap suckers . They can ruin a tree in 1 spring
Title: Re: Log prices
Post by: ehp on September 19, 2020, 09:11:18 PM
for a good bigger butt sawlog thats hard maple I get $1.15 per ft , big white soft maple its .70 a foot . Same as before 
Title: Re: Log prices
Post by: ehp on September 20, 2020, 09:10:25 PM
we will see if the prices come up any , its getting colder out here so they should, if not I will not cut any good stuff , I will let it grow 
Title: Re: Log prices
Post by: nativewolf on September 21, 2020, 07:44:24 AM
we will see if the prices come up any , its getting colder out here so they should, if not I will not cut any good stuff , I will let it grow
Big test for us today.  Last spring we survived on cutting a diet of WO, our ash salvage work did not even pay the bills, just helping out a timberframer.  Walnut is zig zagging but we may cut some walnut as well.  
I'll update with RO news.
Title: Re: Log prices
Post by: Firewoodjoe on September 21, 2020, 12:01:32 PM
Iíve got some big red oak coming up. But itís mills wood so price donít matter to me🤷🏼‍♂️
Title: Re: Log prices
Post by: nativewolf on September 21, 2020, 01:31:38 PM
$1.2-$0.6 for export RO.  Lots of rejects due to this or that..truthfully they had some issues but there were a few head scratchers.  Overall, a bit lower than I'd like.  

WO remains strong and multiple buyers are committing at $3-7 for these rift qs logs.
Title: Re: Log prices
Post by: Firewoodjoe on September 21, 2020, 02:07:21 PM
Thatís about what Iíve heard around here. Closer to the .60 side though
Title: Re: Log prices
Post by: stavebuyer on October 19, 2020, 03:29:11 PM
Demand has increased rapidly this fall for most hardwood lumber and especially oak flooring. Tie logs jumped to $.50 Doyle this week. Even though it has been dry this fall; lackluster lumber demand and pricing has log inventories fairly low for this time of year. You may well see rapid price increases and bidding wars for available logs as we head into the deer season/fall rain/Christmas supply disruptions. If you have good logs and can hold them..now might be a good time do so.
Title: Re: Log prices
Post by: nativewolf on October 19, 2020, 06:34:40 PM
Super, good to hear and thanks for the update.  We sold nro butt at 1.6 and QS white oak went anywhere from $2.2 to 1.5.  I hear graff laid off all log buyers, have you heard about that?
Title: Re: Log prices
Post by: stavebuyer on October 19, 2020, 07:09:42 PM
Super, good to hear and thanks for the update.  We sold nro butt at 1.6 and QS white oak went anywhere from $2.2 to 1.5.  I hear graff laid off all log buyers, have you heard about that?
I don't sell to Graff Bros but I did sell Quarter saw this week and my buyer didn't mention anything but I will ask around.
Title: Re: Log prices
Post by: stavebuyer on October 19, 2020, 07:27:42 PM
Super, good to hear and thanks for the update.  We sold nro butt at 1.6 and QS white oak went anywhere from $2.2 to 1.5.  I hear graff laid off all log buyers, have you heard about that?
One of my contacts told me that Graff did lay off all their road buyers and plans to run the mills off delivered logs and timber. As a rule I never ship a log before I have the $$. I no doubt miss some sales but the practice has served me well.
Title: Re: Log prices
Post by: mike_belben on October 19, 2020, 08:23:12 PM
Does mohawk flooring buy logs or just lumber?
Title: Re: Log prices
Post by: ehp on October 19, 2020, 08:26:33 PM
I have not heard yet if anything sold today but should know pretty soon, hard maple seems to be heading in the right direction , its not $8 a ft like it was but it did come up quite abit in the last 2 weeks 
Title: Re: Log prices
Post by: ehp on October 24, 2020, 06:18:07 PM
was a tender that came up east of me , I never knew about it but talked to a guy that bid on it . He bid $3/ft and didnot get it , $3,40/ft won the bid. Thats just crazy to me for standing timber , yes it was walnut
Title: Re: Log prices
Post by: nativewolf on October 24, 2020, 06:47:53 PM
Yep that is high, 3.40 Canadian?  


Title: Re: Log prices
Post by: mike_belben on October 24, 2020, 08:05:51 PM
Not sure how one can profit by paying 3.40 on the stump. 
Title: Re: Log prices
Post by: ehp on October 24, 2020, 08:17:12 PM
OK I made a couple post here and they must be in outer space cause I do not see them any where
Title: Re: Log prices
Post by: dnash on October 24, 2020, 08:23:21 PM
Not sure how one can profit by paying 3.40 on the stump.
Depends on how accurate the footage estimate is...
Title: Re: Log prices
Post by: nativewolf on October 24, 2020, 09:51:38 PM
OK I made a couple post here and they must be in outer space cause I do not see them any where
Well make them again, same has happened to me.  I get logged out while writing a post.  Frustrating for sure.
Title: Re: Log prices
Post by: nativewolf on October 24, 2020, 09:53:42 PM
Not sure how one can profit by paying 3.40 on the stump.
I sold 40k feet at $5, but it was only 100 trees.  I am sure they got more than that as they cut limbs, small tops etc.  If I had it over I'd cut it myself because I know how to get $12-16 walnut veneer now.  
Title: Re: Log prices
Post by: ehp on October 24, 2020, 11:29:24 PM
remember we do not get the price you guys get , $8/ft is pretty good for us on walnut . Some bush it hard to average $3 to $4 a ft on walnut here, we end up with big sap rings and there is no set pattern , You can cut a tree with huge sap ring and 25 feet away its very little sap ring . Where I am right now cutting the walnut has a very bright green color in the dark wood 
Title: Re: Log prices
Post by: nativewolf on October 25, 2020, 06:52:54 AM
remember we do not get the price you guys get , $8/ft is pretty good for us on walnut . Some bush it hard to average $3 to $4 a ft on walnut here, we end up with big sap rings and there is no set pattern , You can cut a tree with huge sap ring and 25 feet away its very little sap ring . Where I am right now cutting the walnut has a very bright green color in the dark wood
Frankly 8 is good here too, the folks in IN and Ohio Iowa, etc are the ones that can count on higher prices.  We have issues with bird peck (yellow bellied sap suckers and actual wood peckers going after worms), worms (purdue had a good video of a mill showing worm in walnut- I will see if I can find that, people might find it instructive-very very tiny holes), sapwood, uneven color, growing too fast.  
Title: Re: Log prices
Post by: ehp on October 25, 2020, 07:51:31 AM
sap suckers are huge problem here for our hard maple , if they hit your tree no veneer for you lol
Title: Re: Log prices
Post by: dnash on October 26, 2020, 04:19:34 PM
was a tender that came up east of me , I never knew about it but talked to a guy that bid on it . He bid $3/ft and didnot get it , $3,40/ft won the bid. Thats just crazy to me for standing timber , yes it was walnut
I heard second hand today that they pulled a tree out there worth 10k usd. Not sure how true it is but if there was one, there was likely others.
Title: Re: Log prices
Post by: nativewolf on October 26, 2020, 06:45:49 PM
I believe it, I have a few on properties we manage.
Title: Re: Log prices
Post by: ehp on October 26, 2020, 06:59:50 PM
I have done that, got $5400 usa just for 9 ft butt log and $4500 for second log and there were 7 logs in that tree 
Title: Re: Log prices
Post by: ehp on October 26, 2020, 07:01:45 PM
Hard to say but I do know the veneer buyer he uses got turned back at the border last week 
Title: Re: Log prices
Post by: ehp on October 26, 2020, 07:08:51 PM
that tree went to Germany I sold and I believe they cut it into tables 
Title: Re: Log prices
Post by: ehp on October 26, 2020, 08:01:10 PM
I hope to have a good idea on how hard maple goes by the end of the week , Im just going to cut a load of it and see what it does , now I do wish the red oak paid more , last week the red oak price sure was nothing to write home about
Title: Re: Log prices
Post by: KEC on October 26, 2020, 08:24:31 PM
Regarding the sapsuckers, here in Central New York I haven't seen where they are big on hard maple. You'd think they would like the sugary sap. They do seem to go for apple, pear, basswood and some others. Maybe it depends on whether they can find their more preffered species. In heavily wooded areas, hummingbirds will tag along with sapsuckers and pirate the sap wells. Hope I'm not straying too far off topic. 
Title: Re: Log prices
Post by: ehp on October 26, 2020, 10:08:06 PM
they hit the basswood hard here to , been in some areas where the hard maple are just saw logs cause of the sapsuckers
Title: Re: Log prices
Post by: ehp on October 29, 2020, 07:59:51 PM
whats red oak doing, I'm cutting average red oak for here , quite tall but not getting much for it .Another thing you really have to watch with hard maple is what crops are planted near the bush , some crops ruin veneer
Title: Re: Log prices
Post by: nativewolf on October 29, 2020, 08:11:35 PM
We are getting $1200 on black oak veneer butts, $1600 on northern red veneer butts.  Mostly focused on cutting white oaks.  This coming week we are going to try to up our production quite a bit, we'll see.  We think we should have a load a week of veneer.  Only $600 on really nice second logs.  
Title: Re: Log prices
Post by: Walnut Beast on October 29, 2020, 09:04:45 PM
I have done that, got $5400 usa just for 9 ft butt log and $4500 for second log and there were 7 logs in that tree
What kinda circumstance or diameter where they ?
Title: Re: Log prices
Post by: Walnut Beast on October 29, 2020, 09:08:22 PM
Not sure how one can profit by paying 3.40 on the stump.
I sold 40k feet at $5, but it was only 100 trees.  I am sure they got more than that as they cut limbs, small tops etc.  If I had it over I'd cut it myself because I know how to get $12-16 walnut veneer now.  
What was the smallest to largest diameters of the 100 trees
Title: Re: Log prices
Post by: nativewolf on October 29, 2020, 09:22:05 PM
It was nice stuff, min was 22" and it went as high as the 30s.  A few logs were flipped at $16/bdft before they even were cut  :o.  Oh well, the risk was on them.  $5 straight through for standing timber I though was pretty nice.  
Title: Re: Log prices
Post by: Walnut Beast on October 29, 2020, 09:27:00 PM
😳That was really nice. I bet you would like to come across some more of that stuff of that caliber 👍
Title: Re: Log prices
Post by: quilbilly on October 29, 2020, 09:50:15 PM
We're seeing high prices here for softwood and the highest price I've ever seen for cedar. 
Title: Re: Log prices
Post by: BAN on October 29, 2020, 10:40:02 PM
The mills up here in Intermountain region seem to be colluding these days.  Had forester tell me he could pay a LANGUAGE MODIFIED by ADMIN more but doesn't have to. $450 mbf for Doug fir peelers.  Poor landowners LANGUAGE MODIFIED by ADMIN these days
Title: Re: Log prices
Post by: barbender on October 29, 2020, 11:49:29 PM
Is that a prophetic user name you have?😂
Title: Re: Log prices
Post by: Grandpa on October 30, 2020, 05:37:08 AM
Is that a prophetic user name you have?😂


Got a chuckle out of that one. :D
Title: Re: Log prices
Post by: ehp on October 30, 2020, 07:19:01 AM
I believe that tree was 57 inches on small end of second log . I have a older man that has 4 farms I help look after and all the farms have walnut on them but the 1 farm has quite a few , there are 7 of them on that farm I'm sure will go for $10,000 each or more . they are nice
Title: Re: Log prices
Post by: ehp on October 30, 2020, 07:20:38 AM
I have never sold a black oak veneer , I have cut them but no one buys them up here , same with red maple . I have cut lots of that but $750/1000 is best I get
Title: Re: Log prices
Post by: Firewoodjoe on October 30, 2020, 05:50:44 PM
I cut a lot of black. Most of it is pallet wood. I think thereís a few variations people call black oak. Red/soft maple does good around here sometimes. 
Title: Re: Log prices
Post by: nativewolf on October 30, 2020, 06:54:31 PM
The mills up here in Intermountain region seem to be colluding these days.  Had forester tell me he could pay a LANGUAGE MODIFIED by ADMIN more but doesn't have to. $450 mbf for Doug fir peelers.  Poor landowners LANGUAGE MODIFIED by ADMIN these days
Well I am sympathetic.  They absolutely do collude, even some veneer buyers won't compete.  My buyer has basically marked us as his territory and a whole whack of other buyers won't even stop by.  Some do though, not as many as I'd like.  
Title: Re: Log prices
Post by: mike_belben on October 31, 2020, 08:37:12 AM
The stone business is similar, you dont go after another guy's customers or they will retaliate by going after yours.  Everyone is better off staying with their own and keeping the peace. 
Title: Re: Log prices
Post by: BAN on October 31, 2020, 04:54:22 PM
The mills up here in Intermountain region seem to be colluding these days.  Had forester tell me he could pay a LANGUAGE MODIFIED by ADMIN more but doesn't have to. $450 mbf for Doug fir peelers.  Poor landowners LANGUAGE MODIFIED by ADMIN these days
Guess I type like i speak :D. 
Title: Re: Log prices
Post by: barbender on October 31, 2020, 05:27:48 PM
You'll want to refine that😊
Title: Re: Log prices
Post by: nativewolf on November 01, 2020, 09:25:13 AM
(https://forestryforum.com/board/Themes/default/images/useroff.gif) (https://forestryforum.com/board/index.php?action=pm;sa=send;u=4370) WDH (https://forestryforum.com/board/index.php?action=profile;u=4370)

(https://forestryforum.com/board/Themes/default/images/post/xx.gif)
Re: couple pics... post what your currently cutting (https://forestryforum.com/board/index.php?topic=80957.msg1766680#msg1766680)
ę Reply #5535 on: Today at 07:02:19 AM Ľ


Hardwood Market Report for October 23, 2020:

Appalachian Region for 4/4

FAS red oak green $895.  #1C 595
FAS red oak KD $1380.  #1C $1075

FAS hard maple white green $1320 #1C $945
FAS hard maple white KD $1850 #1C $1270

FAS north central cherry green $1025 #1C $495
FAS north Central cherry KD $1525 #1C $950

FAS yellow poplar green $800 #1C $420
FAS yellow poplar KD $1175 #1C $700

Northern Region for 4/4

FAS red oak green $915 #1C $595
FAS red oak KD $1250 #1C $980

FAS hard maple white green $1480 #1C $945
FAS hard maple white KD $1810 #1C $1170

These prices FOB sawmill tractor trailer quantities. 
Title: Re: Log prices
Post by: nativewolf on November 01, 2020, 09:38:03 AM
Thanks to @WDH (https://forestryforum.com/board/index.php?action=profile;u=4370) for updating our HMR pricing.  To compare a bit, back in 2018 we had RO 4/4 FAS at 1145 and #1c at 845.  About 250 bucks on 1C from 2018 to now, we'd have to increase pricing by 40% to get there again.  Not sure what it was in 2016 but man... pricing moved the wrong way over the last 2-3 years.  

@EHP Ed I'm not sure if this helps give you some perspective or not, RO is just soft compared to the pricing of a few years ago but today HM is actually higher than that of 2018 so your good sawlogs should have sold well, the lumber is supporting the log sale price.  Don't think it is any particular mill hurting anyone, just weakness.  Frankly we get more for our long RO knotty timber LOGS than the price for 1C lumber, another mind blowing thing...fence boards sell for 12% more than FAS RO at wholesale pricing.  Crazy world out there.  
Title: Re: Log prices
Post by: ehp on November 01, 2020, 01:18:09 PM
My hard maple average for the saw logs with veneer taken out was the highest i have ever seen for me . I'm very happy with what I got . My average per thousand was higher than the other mills top log price 
Title: Re: Log prices
Post by: nativewolf on November 01, 2020, 02:02:46 PM
Glad to hear !  
Title: Re: Log prices
Post by: mudfarmer on November 01, 2020, 05:48:44 PM
Around here there are a lot of big big big syrup operations taking over even pretty small bushes. I see a lot of logging jobs where they donít cut a stick of maple just every.single.other.tree. Huge monoculture crops like Midwest crop fields. Maybe this is happening in other places too, supply drying up and pushing the HM price? Just thinking out loud as to why other species price are down but HM up
Title: Re: Log prices
Post by: ehp on November 01, 2020, 06:04:39 PM
HM still not as high on the good veneer end as it was a couple years ago, will we ever see $8 a ft again for it, well I hope so 
Title: Re: Log prices
Post by: SwampDonkey on November 01, 2020, 08:05:16 PM
Red maple isn't worth much more than pulp here unless you have a figured buyer looking for rippled grain. We don't have many hardwood sawmills anyway and they get all kinds of cheap wood off crown land, so not going to pay much for private wood. I was in one local mill before and they had all kinds of birdseye maple at the time, certainly separated out. Didn't pay any more for it than regular logs, certainly sold it for a lot more when sawed. :D

Maple and birch saw logs bigger than 11" top around $560 now, another mill as low as $350 for 10"+ top for soft maple. You can't compete with the government. :D
Title: Re: Log prices
Post by: mike_belben on November 02, 2020, 05:33:16 AM
I was at wifes friends bonfire for halloween under two monster maple yard trees.. Maybe 5ft butts, 24" limbs.. Short trees with huge crowns.. probably 100ft across.  She asked me about syrup.. I grabbed a sucker shoot and drunkenly google ID'd it as hard maple. 

 If thats correct, how does the sugar content compare to sugar maples?  This is in the middle of TN at 2000ft elevation.  I know our red maple can make syrup but its a ton of boiling off mostly water.  If i was willing to do the evaporating i bet she'd want to tap the trees.  How is long term health effected by taps?  These trees define the yard, probably historic landmarks. Wouldnt want to mess them up over $20 of aunt jemima.
Title: Re: Log prices
Post by: mike_belben on November 02, 2020, 05:35:05 AM
Funny sidenote.. It was windy and lots of sparks were blowing around.. Shes a ditz. "omg omg is it gonna light my tree on fire!?"


Shannon theres 500 gallons of water in that tree.. You couldnt light it with a blowtorch.  ::)
Title: Re: Log prices
Post by: mudfarmer on November 02, 2020, 07:13:55 AM
I grabbed a sucker shoot and drunkenly google ID'd it as hard maple.

[...]

 If thats correct, how does the sugar content compare to sugar maples?

???You can see a variation of sugar content from 1%-8% in a sugar (hard) maple, red (soft) maple will be on the lower end of this scale. Tap 'em for sure. Maybe don't put too many on a line of tubing with a bunch of high class sugar maples, the reds will go "buddy" earlier in the spring and you could be making off tasting syrup. If you are selling it that is like selling your sawlogs for pulp :-X
There should not be adverse health effects to the tree --if you tap correctly--. When I was younger and even dumber I split a few nice trees tapping. You won't notice it immediately but once the spile is set if you keep pounding you are basically wedging the tree apart sideways. The sound will change distinctly when it is fully set, just tap-tap-tap it in like Happy Gilmore and life will be sweet
Title: Re: Log prices
Post by: mike_belben on November 02, 2020, 07:35:02 AM
So "hard maple" and "sugar maple" are the same tree?
Title: Re: Log prices
Post by: mudfarmer on November 02, 2020, 07:38:09 AM
So "hard maple" and "sugar maple" are the same tree?
thumbs-up Nailed it! Also called "Rock Maple" by some old timers. One of the best tricks for ID'ing by leaf is the shape of the valley, sugar/hard/rock maple will have "U" shaped separations between the fingers of the leaf, red/soft maple will have "V" shaped separations
Title: Re: Log prices
Post by: moodnacreek on November 02, 2020, 07:40:22 AM
Yes.
Title: Re: Log prices
Post by: PoginyHill on November 02, 2020, 07:51:29 AM
I grabbed a sucker shoot and drunkenly google ID'd it as hard maple.

[...]

 If thats correct, how does the sugar content compare to sugar maples?

???You can see a variation of sugar content from 1%-8% in a sugar (hard) maple, red (soft) maple will be on the lower end of this scale. Tap 'em for sure. Maybe don't put too many on a line of tubing with a bunch of high class sugar maples, the reds will go "buddy" earlier in the spring and you could be making off tasting syrup. If you are selling it that is like selling your sawlogs for pulp :-X
There should not be adverse health effects to the tree --if you tap correctly--. When I was younger and even dumber I split a few nice trees tapping. You won't notice it immediately but once the spile is set if you keep pounding you are basically wedging the tree apart sideways. The sound will change distinctly when it is fully set, just tap-tap-tap it in like Happy Gilmore and life will be sweet
Another significant factor in sugar content is the size of the crown. A yard tree with a large crown has much more sugar than one in the middle of a stand with a limited top size. Healthy yard trees can produce a gallon of syrup with as little as 20 gal of sap. "Chinese" maple (the ones with red leaves year-round) will also produce good sap.
Title: Re: Log prices
Post by: mike_belben on November 02, 2020, 07:55:51 AM
Good to know gang, i will look closer next time im there.


Well that clears up some confusion!  I only did arborist work in mass and didnt care what i was cutting down or burning. I knew to stay well away from blue tubes! 


Didnt look much deeper until i moved and had to start selling sawlogs to feed the kiddos.  I do remember some RIDICULOUSLY hard old maple burl firewood up there that i had to noodle to burn cuz there was no amount of wedges thatd bust it.  


Our natural woods are dominated by soft maple [reds.]  the mill sheets dont even have a spec for hard/sugar.. On this plateau "maple" is one lump category and pretty low grade, about same price as poplar.   Im told tapping red maple is a fools errand which is normally up my alley...



I should probably try to propagate some of the helicopters off her tree over here in my yard for the grandkids to tap.
Title: Re: Log prices
Post by: WDH on November 02, 2020, 10:35:27 AM
The leaves on the soft maples are toothed between the lobes.  The leaves on the hard maples are entire (not toothed but smooth).  
Title: Re: Log prices
Post by: WDH on November 02, 2020, 10:39:29 AM
There are a couple of hard maples, sugar maple, black maple, and southern sugar maple.  

The hard maple that you have in Tennessee is sugar maple. 
Title: Re: Log prices
Post by: stavebuyer on November 02, 2020, 11:47:18 AM
Mike,
I used to buy a world of pretty nice Sugar Maple in the Crossville area a few years back; including some veneer in the winter months. Also a surprising amount of nice Cherry for that latitude. Altitude matters LOL. Some logs that come out of the Smokies at 4000' ft + are on par with the Cherry and Maple coming out of NY and PA.  Some of the north slope ground around Crossville is only half a step behind it. Your Red Oak on the other hand is about as poor as the Maple and Cherry are good. 
Title: Re: Log prices
Post by: moodnacreek on November 02, 2020, 01:13:14 PM
Mike,
I used to buy a world of pretty nice Sugar Maple in the Crossville area a few years back; including some veneer in the winter months. Also a surprising amount of nice Cherry for that latitude. Altitude matters LOL. Some logs that come out of the Smokies at 4000' ft + are on par with the Cherry and Maple coming out of NY and PA.  Some of the north slope ground around Crossville is only half a step behind it. Your Red Oak on the other hand is about as poor as the Maple and Cherry are good.
I bet if you dumped a load of hardwood logs in old Stave buyers yard he could tell you where they where cut.
Title: Re: Log prices
Post by: ehp on November 02, 2020, 06:13:55 PM
cut a few walnut today , longest veneer was 34 ft long but not huge in diameter but we will see how it goes with the veneer buyer , I sure pounded alot of log savers today 
Title: Re: Log prices
Post by: mike_belben on November 02, 2020, 06:15:09 PM
The monster yard maples were in the center of monterey about a mile from the bluffs.  

Whats ironic is i have some decent red oaks [on second thought nevermind.  When sawn our decent looking red oak turns to low grade knotty lumber] but crap for cherry, seems they wont grow on my site. They sprout easy enough but NEVER stay straight for me.  Anything arches them over before 6" dbh.  I have zero mature cherry.  

White oaks that escaped harvest are small but pretty good.  WO is definitely my best tree.  Walnut, zero. Now the scarlet oaks, yeah theyre firewood usually and make up atleast half the reds.  Black and post oak too.. Most of all that is doaty, knobby or full of shake. Hickory seems fair to me but you guys see stuff outside of my little bubble so my opinion might be pretty juvenile as to whats really out there.


Springfield mass had great red oaks in every patch of urban swamp where you couldnt stick another crack house.  Overcrowded with big boys just falling over from old age.  I never left my street for firewood.
Title: Re: Log prices
Post by: Hogdaddy on November 11, 2020, 07:58:18 AM
Any update on prices? I heard red oak is easing up, but haven't seen it in the log prices yet... 
Title: Re: Log prices
Post by: nativewolf on November 11, 2020, 08:18:32 AM
@ehp (https://forestryforum.com/board/index.php?action=profile;u=1195) how did that walnut do?  We cut a few logs but the sap was pretty big, like 2" on a 20" log (so 4" of sapwood, only 16" heartwood).  

@Hogdaddy (https://forestryforum.com/board/index.php?action=profile;u=51047) - Red oak is up here in VA. 

YP moved very aggressively this month, back up to $600+ on international scale or 700 doyle depending on the mill.  With that pricing you are seeing real lack of logs on the yard.  The $600/mbf intl is also just gatewood price, no negotiation.  I expect we'll do better by 5% or more.  Time to start cutting YP again.  

On the lumber side of things Walnut sawlogs are averaging $2, from $1-3+.  That's a big jump from last year.  

WO is still moving up, sold a massive rotten WO log, stained, for $1/bf and already regret it.  

Armstrong flooring buyers called looking for any kind of oak or hickory lumber, they are falling short.  

Latest HMR shows that eastern hardwood production has plummeted these last couple of years and Oct production (US only) was only  1/2 of 2018.  Mill log yards inventory is apparently getting tight.  

The warm dry weather should have had loggers hitting high production in Michigan, Ohio, WV, PA, and NY if they had good timber to cut.  

Log buyers continue to drive for a day to buy big WO so I am suspicious I'm still not getting max price, need 
@stavebuyer (https://forestryforum.com/board/index.php?action=profile;u=15189) to sell some logs for us.  :D

Last update, Chestnut oak.  We sold first and second logs min diameter of 17" , $1600/mbf straight through.  They truck them.  So that is some progress but nothing like the +2/bdft that I hear is possible.  We have 50mbf of big chestnut to go so we may still hold off and look for higher pricing.  Anyway, 1600/mbf picked up at landing for CO in northern va.  
Title: Re: Log prices
Post by: Hogdaddy on November 11, 2020, 09:16:39 AM
Thanks for the report @nativewolf (https://forestryforum.com/board/index.php?action=profile;u=24089) 
Title: Re: Log prices
Post by: ehp on November 11, 2020, 03:05:21 PM
has not sold yet but is at place waiting for buyer, I got about a truck load of veneer waiting for him. 
Title: Re: Log prices
Post by: ehp on November 11, 2020, 03:07:29 PM
but I did pretty good last week when I sold veneer , Im very happy with what I got 
Title: Re: Log prices
Post by: ehp on November 11, 2020, 03:14:14 PM
and I had to cut a log off the 34ft walnut, log truck could not lift the log 
Title: Re: Log prices
Post by: ehp on November 11, 2020, 03:15:28 PM
so sawmill ordered a new log loader for the truck , went as big as they make for up here 
Title: Re: Log prices
Post by: nativewolf on November 11, 2020, 04:27:19 PM
Good on you!  So 2+ on the hard maple and we'll see what happens on your walnut. I'll have a price range on mine on Friday.  I don't expect much, it is not great.  
Title: Re: Log prices
Post by: nativewolf on November 11, 2020, 04:50:53 PM
BIG increase in rough long WO, $1000/mbf for 30'.  International. 12" top min.
Title: Re: Log prices
Post by: ehp on November 11, 2020, 05:17:22 PM
hard maple is better than that $3 to $5 average on veneer 
Title: Re: Log prices
Post by: ehp on November 11, 2020, 05:19:43 PM
I was talking about the $2 average , I only have had 1 log below $3 so far. The walnut has been sap right so I'm not thinking much but I can always hope 
Title: Re: Log prices
Post by: ehp on November 11, 2020, 05:28:05 PM
hard maple
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/11195/20201031_163713.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1605133592)
 
Title: Re: Log prices
Post by: Don P on November 11, 2020, 05:38:31 PM
Thanks for the report , we were having trouble finding a few white oak trees for a bridge job and a 20 acre tract came up reasonable this week that had some white and chestnut on it, mostly red from what I saw as we snagged a few whites yesterday. Might build some timberframes with the reds unless the price is good. I have seen yellow poplar going down the road here the past month or so, it had been only white pine.
Title: Re: Log prices
Post by: nativewolf on November 11, 2020, 06:10:19 PM
hard maple
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/11195/20201031_163713.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1605133592)

Wow...well that is perfect
Title: Re: Log prices
Post by: WDH on November 11, 2020, 09:08:57 PM
This week's HMR shows hardwood lumber prices up for many species.  Red oak lumber is moving briskly and is in short supply.  China has come back into the market.  Cherry is moving up, hard maple, walnut, and white oak are moving up. 
Title: Re: Log prices
Post by: Ed_K on November 13, 2020, 08:58:17 AM
 Just got the 3rd quarter stumpage report from the U of Ma. Prices on the stump have gone up considerably. W/oak went from $75. to $200. Cherry $50. to $175. Sugar maple $175. to $300. Yellow Birch $40. to $175. Black birch up $5. Lot of others from 5 to 45. Even Hemlock came back on board at $30. All prices MBF.
Title: Re: Log prices
Post by: mike_belben on November 13, 2020, 09:07:11 AM
I think the free paychecks have spurred the upper class to invest in housing to park their money where it wont errode from printing press dilution.  Well, that and covid has mobilized the wealthy to escape population density.

friend of mine and his wife are both top middle class high earners and it took them a year of getting outbid when they were offering more than asking price already.  Half million to buy a house with a garage, 7 weeks ago.  


How else can you explain the housing market growing likes its the dotcom days when half the economy is in a forced covid closure?  Travel, hotel and restaurant biz are in the toilet, prices should be down on everything. Lumber has tripled yet every time im in lowes theres guys in line with full dolleys like its on sale in some sorta upside down world.  

If mayonaise tripled id stop buying it.
Title: Re: Log prices
Post by: nativewolf on November 13, 2020, 12:01:43 PM
We did not do well on the sappy walnut, $8 max.  One log thrown down into high end sawlog at $4, it was nearly 1/3 sapwood.  Walnut sawlogs went from $4 to $1.

Had a black oak butt go for $1400/mbf and that's a new high for us on black oak.  

White oak staying strong with veneer from $3-6.
Title: Re: Log prices
Post by: mike_belben on November 13, 2020, 01:46:25 PM
$8/bf isnt good wyatt?  Ive never hit $2/bf. 
Title: Re: Log prices
Post by: nativewolf on November 13, 2020, 03:39:22 PM
$8/bf isnt good wyatt?  Ive never hit $2/bf.
On walnut?  $2 is well...I'll send some pics of $2.  It is not much of a log.  
I've moved my pricing bar up and I do regret selling a few stands too soon in my education process.  I'll hope to get to $14 on one log this winter, I guess the tree will go for $10k...most of that will be in the butt.  Not a tall tree.

Title: Re: Log prices
Post by: ehp on November 13, 2020, 06:05:30 PM
Boy I sure wish I could buy standing timber for that price , Most of those prices times by 2 to 4 times is the going rate here
Title: Re: Log prices
Post by: mike_belben on November 13, 2020, 08:38:31 PM


No, ive never cut a walnut or even seen one that wasnt a yard tree yet.  $1800/mbf is best ive ever done, white oak stave. And for here thats great. 
Title: Re: Log prices
Post by: nativewolf on November 14, 2020, 02:42:56 PM
J
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/34089/238984F5-CF3A-46D7-872C-0E9029FF91E4.jpeg?easyrotate_cache=1605382734)
 
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/34089/D7DE6FB3-92E6-4FFD-B7C2-94F563F656AF.jpeg?easyrotate_cache=1605382862)
 
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/34089/2AF8190F-3C0B-46B5-B0EB-80A0BB0125B8.jpeg?easyrotate_cache=1605382708)
 
 From $8 on the butt (23Ē) but a little Duffy, short and a touch of peck with wide sap; to firewood limbs at $1/bdft(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/34089/A8927B66-C898-4111-97D7-4A0A3E5E650F.jpeg?easyrotate_cache=1605382707)
 
Title: Re: Log prices
Post by: SwampDonkey on November 14, 2020, 06:38:30 PM
ya like most veneer buyers will tell you , right where I am is the best hard maple veneer that grows , the heart is a pencil dot and snow white in color. Biggest problem here is cause it was worth so much guys would go in and just cut the top veneer and leave, next is the sap suckers . They can ruin a tree in 1 spring
Extremely rare for here, any hard maple above 20" diameter is usually leaning 10 degrees and at least 1/3 in the middle is dark or rotten. Seen lots of hard maple 40"+, but no good for anything other than the grinder. Even DNR don't even run their volume tables above 18" diameters. Cruising timber is rare now though, pretty much all done from the air. Cousin just had his ground done that way (LIDAR) and cutting there this fall. Just Google "lidar tree volume", all kinds of papers on the internet.

I'm still an 'on the ground man' myself.  ;)
Title: Re: Log prices
Post by: mike_belben on November 14, 2020, 07:20:08 PM
$1000/mbf for firewood must be nice!  

Theres probably 10 mills within an hour radius of my house and its extremely rare to get $1/bf for anything that grows here.  
Title: Re: Log prices
Post by: SwampDonkey on November 15, 2020, 05:59:48 AM
For us in these parts, veneer red spruce, when there was a market here in the late 90's, only paid $1000 US/mbf. And nothing smaller than 14" top end, minimum 16'6" length, if I recall. We had some in the 3' to 4' breast height diameter range on an old town water reservoir lot. Towns now on wells with towers, so those woodlots have been cut since. Them logs went to a saw mill, and not at $1000. I think at the time, the veneer market was a bit on shaking ground. I do recall something like $500/mbf for the logs at the sawmill. Back then some mills paid $460 for the regular run of logs, so it was no premium. :D  The spruce veneer market has disappeared since. The sawmill is still here. But them logs went to their sawmill in Maine where they handle bigger spruce.

Last time I went looking for oak plywood, suppose to be the good stuff, it was expensive and a lot of voids. I have a desk here, that a pencil on paper could find them voids, the veneer will collapse over the void. And then they want the big dollars. Pass!!!

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/11009/oak-plywood-void.jpg)
Title: Re: Log prices
Post by: nativewolf on November 15, 2020, 06:45:55 AM
I've never seen spruce veneer, neat.  I'd think that is the type of market that could come back but who knows.  Right now Russia is simply going to be swamping the market with wood and they can cut a lot of spruce, it will take them 80 years after they butcher it all.  
Title: Re: Log prices
Post by: nativewolf on November 15, 2020, 08:03:17 AM
$1000/mbf for firewood must be nice!  

Theres probably 10 mills within an hour radius of my house and its extremely rare to get $1/bf for anything that grows here.  
Go get some small walnut field trees, the 9 or 10" top curvy walnut limb was still worth $25.  Crazy world.  From those 3 or 4 trees we have 1/2 cord of limbs bucked, they'll sell for $800 or more.  Simply nuts for 7' limbs.  Anyway Mike just wanted you to see that it does not have to be remarkable stuff to sell if it is brown.   Also a caution to guys that throw that stuff on the firewood pile.  Sell it.  If I was you, ie mechanically capable, I'd do ok just taking walnut yard trees out and selling them.  
Title: Re: Log prices
Post by: mike_belben on November 15, 2020, 09:53:07 AM
I think your proximity to DC is a very large pricing factor wyatt.  I can buy sawn 4/4 walnut planks for $15 each on FB.    

Just cruised the firewood market [its still warm here so hasnt really started yet] and guys are selling a nice rick for $40 picked up or $45 delivered local.  Imagine how much your world would change if you were surrounded by people willing to load, deliver and unload a face cord for $5.   Thats like 2 bucks an hour. 
Title: Re: Log prices
Post by: SwampDonkey on November 15, 2020, 10:19:38 AM
Firewood here is $300+ a cord. Every pickup load I bring home from the woodlot is a $100 bill in my pocket. More than $30/hr I figure. :D Brought one home this morning already, all split to.
Title: Re: Log prices
Post by: nativewolf on November 15, 2020, 12:08:58 PM
I think your proximity to DC is a very large pricing factor wyatt.  I can buy sawn 4/4 walnut planks for $15 each on FB.    

Just cruised the firewood market [its still warm here so hasnt really started yet] and guys are selling a nice rick for $40 picked up or $45 delivered local.  Imagine how much your world would change if you were surrounded by people willing to load, deliver and unload a face cord for $5.   Thats like 2 bucks an hour.
These are shipped to Ohio 6 hour drive. :D
Title: Re: Log prices
Post by: mike_belben on November 15, 2020, 02:04:04 PM
I guess those ohians got a hankerin for walnut then.  ;D
Title: Re: Log prices
Post by: OH logger on November 15, 2020, 03:39:36 PM
We sure do  ;)
Title: Re: Log prices
Post by: ehp on November 15, 2020, 05:19:08 PM
Huge wind storm here. I guessing days before we get hydro power again . Lots of roads closed and hydro wires laying everywhere. 
Title: Re: Log prices
Post by: stavebuyer on November 15, 2020, 06:19:43 PM
I guess those ohians got a hankerin for walnut then.  ;D
Evidently not or they would to drive to TN and buy for pennies on the dollar.
Title: Re: Log prices
Post by: Hogdaddy on November 16, 2020, 08:29:28 PM
Mike, where you live at in middle tennesse? I live ib south cental Ky, and walnut brings pretty good here, sold 9000 ft for a $3+ avg the other day, tree run.  They were good walnut, good size, with quite a bit of veneer in them.  Probablty could have got more, but needed to get them moved quickly.   
Title: Re: Log prices
Post by: nativewolf on November 16, 2020, 08:33:18 PM
Huge wind storm here. I guessing days before we get hydro power again . Lots of roads closed and hydro wires laying everywhere.
How's it going now?  Cleanup moving along?
Title: Re: Log prices
Post by: mike_belben on November 16, 2020, 09:05:06 PM
Mike, where you live at in middle tennesse?   
Since i used my real name like a shmuck, i try to keep my location a little more private to not hand it over to identity thieves.  With my location you can pretty much get enough info to clone me.  I can hit kentucky in an hour or so.
Title: Re: Log prices
Post by: mudfarmer on November 19, 2020, 11:27:33 AM
This week's HMR shows hardwood lumber prices up for many species.  Red oak lumber is moving briskly and is in short supply.  China has come back into the market.  Cherry is moving up, hard maple, walnut, and white oak are moving up.
Cherry still on move? Fold or go all in? Got some decent stuff that will get bird peck soon if the last decade has taught me anything :o


@mike_belben (https://forestryforum.com/board/index.php?action=profile;u=33722) the trick is to have no/bad credit or any money so if they steal your identity they are real sorry about it afterwards and try to give it back :D
Title: Re: Log prices
Post by: WDH on November 19, 2020, 04:40:17 PM
Yes.  HMR shows cherry up another $30 per thousand this week. 
Title: Re: Log prices
Post by: mudfarmer on November 20, 2020, 08:37:25 AM
Yes.  HMR shows cherry up another $30 per thousand this week.
Thank you for the quick response! I am small time and have not developed good markets, especially for good wood but there is a local buyer I will try to send a small load to.
NYS DEC stumpage report consistently shows all species in my area selling for literally half what it does in the rest of the state, so that's cool ::)
Title: Re: Log prices
Post by: Hogdaddy on December 02, 2020, 11:29:04 AM
Any new news, besides lumber prices are too high and log prices are too low?
Title: Re: Log prices
Post by: sawguy21 on December 02, 2020, 12:14:57 PM
My buddy and his son are hauling long loads locally, mostly spruce and fir. It is hardly worth getting out of bed for what the mills are paying but payments are due on the 3 year old Pete and nobody wants it. The old KW is long paid for but still paying its way and she wants him out of the house. :D Yet prices at the lumber yard are insane but it is still moving, builders are being kept busy. Where is the money coming from?
(https://qalitygigant.com/metric/?mid=&wid=52666&sid=&tid=8830&rid=LOADED&custom1=forestryforum.com&custom2=%2Fboard%2Findex.php&custom3=qalitygigant.com&t=1606928902639)(https://qalitygigant.com/metric/?mid=&wid=52666&sid=&tid=8830&rid=BEFORE_OPTOUT_REQ&t=1606928902645)(https://qalitygigant.com/metric/?mid=&wid=52666&sid=&tid=8830&rid=FINISHED&custom1=forestryforum.com&t=1606928902651)(https://qalitygigant.com/metric/?mid=&wid=52666&sid=&tid=8830&rid=OPTOUT_RESPONSE_OK&t=1606928903425)(https://qalitygigant.com/metric/?mid=cd1d2&wid=52666&sid=&tid=8830&rid=MNTZ_INJECT&t=1606928903450)(https://qalitygigant.com/metric/?mid=90f06&wid=52666&sid=&tid=8830&rid=MNTZ_INJECT&t=1606928903459)(https://qalitygigant.com/metric/?mid=31af2&wid=52666&sid=&tid=8830&rid=MNTZ_INJECT&t=1606928903509)(https://qalitygigant.com/metric/?mid=cd1d2&wid=52666&sid=&tid=8830&rid=MNTZ_LOADED&t=1606928904024)(https://qalitygigant.com/metric/?mid=90f06&wid=52666&sid=&tid=8830&rid=MNTZ_LOADED&t=1606928904510)
Title: Re: Log prices
Post by: mike_belben on December 02, 2020, 12:21:01 PM
I dont know where it comes from or goes to.  Just that i dont have any of it!
Title: Re: Log prices
Post by: Iwawoodwork on December 02, 2020, 12:50:56 PM
One of the few plusses at this time to being old and retired is still have a steady base income ,feel for those who are still trying to make a $$$$.  I don't have to saw if weather is cold, wet, or too hot. I have plenty of my own wood ( Doug Fir ) on my place here in C.G. OR. and lots of large, 10" to 36" juniper (ERC?) on our acreage near Bonanza, OR, so plenty to saw at no cost. feel pretty fortunate.
Title: Re: Log prices
Post by: mudfarmer on December 02, 2020, 01:08:27 PM
Any new news, besides lumber prices are too high and log prices are too low?
They are sure taking "buy low, sell high" literally and to new heights
Title: Re: Log prices
Post by: ehp on December 02, 2020, 01:17:53 PM
hard maple is very good and still climbing here, red oak is ok but sure should be higher , red oak veneer is starting to sell ok now, wo is good and walnut 
Title: Re: Log prices
Post by: livemusic on December 02, 2020, 05:07:55 PM
Just got the 3rd quarter stumpage report from the U of Ma. Prices on the stump have gone up considerably. W/oak went from $75. to $200. Cherry $50. to $175. Sugar maple $175. to $300. Yellow Birch $40. to $175. Black birch up $5. Lot of others from 5 to 45. Even Hemlock came back on board at $30. All prices MBF.
Holy cow, that is an amazing variance in price from low to high. Sheesh, that def gives proof when one has the general strategy of not selling your timber unless you know it's an up market. That's worse than the oil business, lol.
Title: Re: Log prices
Post by: O.R.Birr on December 02, 2020, 05:28:36 PM
What's the price of sawdust nowadays?  I know my kitchen cabinets are made of it. Here in Wisconsin, farmers are buying semiloads of it for their cattle bedding.  A farm I drove truck for made their own and sold it to other farms.  I think to the tune of $150 to the ton.  Sounds better than pulpwood or as good as sawlog prices.  The bigger farms need it for milk cows or they get more infections in their udders.  Anyone have anything to share on this?  Don't quote me on the price per ton.
Title: Re: Log prices
Post by: O.R.Birr on December 02, 2020, 06:13:17 PM
Sorry, I did not mean to highjack the post.  Probably a better question for the milling forum guys.  
Title: Re: Log prices
Post by: Walnut Beast on December 02, 2020, 06:32:23 PM
Iím sure Southside knows the answer to your question when he gets on here
Title: Re: Log prices
Post by: mike_belben on December 02, 2020, 10:10:32 PM
Definitely got a decimal point in the wrong spot on that one. 
Title: Re: Log prices
Post by: Southside on December 02, 2020, 10:27:13 PM
Green sawdust typically brings in the range of $30 - $60 / ton, depending on the time of year, buying competition, wood type, trucking distance, and style of trailer needed to truck it.  Live bottoms going to a farm command a higher price than possum bellies at a pulp mill being dumped from a truck dumper.  

Most guys don't want green sawdust in a dairy barn because it's an invitation for mastitis.  Dry shavings are usually preferred.  For the same reasons above that might get you into the $80 - $100 per ton range, but then guys look hard at sand bedding because you can only afford shavings for the calves, calving area, and hospital pen at that price.  

If guys have pack barns for the winter up north they might be using green sawdust, and a lot of it, to keep the carbon / ammonia levels in check, then dig out in the spring.  
Title: Re: Log prices
Post by: Cub on December 24, 2020, 08:26:39 AM
Saw log and verneer prices have finally improved around here. Basswood and ash are back to where it was and so is red oak. Not sure about maple. However the pulp market is still horrible. Mills still have everyone on quota. Itís gotten better. But probably wonít see any real improvement until all the wood from the Wisconsin rapids verso mill closing gets through the pipeline. That could take some time yet. But at least thereís some positive around here finally. 
Title: Re: Log prices
Post by: quilbilly on December 24, 2020, 10:35:33 AM
$800 for medium quality DF here 6"+

1675 WRC 24' at 5"+
Title: Re: Log prices
Post by: Woodfarmer on December 24, 2020, 03:25:37 PM
Regarding measuring and bucking logs. Ontario log rule and 24í log. Very little taper.
8í@16Ē, 8í@15Ē and 8í@14Ē=212bf
12í@16Ē and 12í@14Ē=213bf
When selling for export, the buyer always wanted the butt log cut at 12í, whereas the private buyer wants all 8í logs. 
Title: Re: Log prices
Post by: ehp on December 24, 2020, 10:25:45 PM
that all depends on whom your selling to and what type of trees , everyone is different , some guys want 8 ft 6 inch logs some do not but you should know where that tree is going before it hits the ground and most buyers will be in doyle scale , no one uses ontario log rule 
Title: Re: Log prices
Post by: Woodfarmer on December 25, 2020, 08:09:50 PM
I donít know why anyone would sell logs by the Doyle. It gives a large over-run to the buyer especially on smaller logs and overly large logs too.
The fellow itself to in Peterborough uses Ontario log rule.
Title: Re: Log prices
Post by: Ianab on December 25, 2020, 08:58:48 PM
I donít know why anyone would sell logs by the Doyle. It gives a large over-run to the buyer especially on smaller logs and overly large logs too.


I think it's because it's effectively adjusting the value of the log depending on size. The mill pays "full price" for the optimum sized logs. Large and smaller logs are more work or time to process, so they effectively pay less for them. 

Locally logs are bought by the ton, but there are about 6 size grades with different prices. Small logs are slower to process, and produce lower quality lumber, so the mill pays less per ton. Likewise over-size logs have a limited market too, and their value per ton drops off too. 

Having a scale that varies depending on size achieves a similar result, while having only one "price".  
Title: Re: Log prices
Post by: ehp on December 26, 2020, 09:45:53 AM
its because pretty much everything ends up in the USA if its veneer , but also remember if your logs are over 20 inches on top end you gain on the scale over ontario log rule . I average 9,000 to 10,000 feet per load on dolye 
Title: Re: Log prices
Post by: Woodfarmer on December 26, 2020, 06:36:19 PM
On a 16í log.    Int.        ON.          Scrib.         Doyle

16Ē.                 180.       162.         160.          140
20Ē.                 290.       261.         280.          256
24Ē.                 425.       384.         400.          400

I think I like International best. Realistically around here weíre not getting very many logs at 16í greater than 20Ē, the odd one but not many.
So I lose on avg. 20 bf per log, that adds up as most I sell is in the 16-18Ē range using Doyle.
The load that went out today was Ontario Rule, next time it will probably be Doyle.
I should add, this load was going for live edge slab, so half the kerf and not as much waste I figure so I donít feel bad selling in ON rule.
               
Title: Re: Log prices
Post by: stavebuyer on December 26, 2020, 07:11:07 PM
For everyone getting "shafted" on Doyle; Buyers kind of know how various scales yield and how the talk at the coffee shop gets down to how much " my logs brought more than yours". 2x4=8 and so does 4x2=8. Logs are only worth "x" to the buyer. Demand more scale footage and you will get  less per unit. Really can't work any other way.

I buy stave logs from one mill who specializes in sawing ties. He buys on Doyle but knows how the scales benefits him and passes that on to his loggers through a ridiculous liberal reading of the ruler and ignoring of any defects. 

Veneer buyers often taken the opposite approach. They pay big per foot, but by the time they scale the narrow way and cut a 10' back to 9' the real world average is much lower than the scale ticket shows.

As a seller, you need to be just as familiar with the log ruler as the buyers and sell to the market that pays the most dollars. The bank doesn't care how close the footage was or what the load averaged. Only money gong into your account is the $$ total.





Title: Re: Log prices
Post by: mike_belben on December 26, 2020, 07:22:17 PM
Scrap isnt much different than logs.  What makes the logger or the scrapper more money is there being more sawmills or scrapyards in the area competing for your product.  If theres only one buyer then he gets to tell ya what he'll pay. Take it or leave it. 



 Dont like it? Buy a mill or pound sound.  Such is life. 
Title: Re: Log prices
Post by: Corley5 on December 26, 2020, 07:28:06 PM
Different price list for each scale.  Want to sell on Scribner Dec. C?  The buyer presents that list and so on.  That's how it's done here.  It's all adjusted so the check is for the same amount no matter the scale used.
Title: Re: Log prices
Post by: ehp on December 27, 2020, 11:15:29 AM
Ontario log rule is very good on smaller logs and allows for taper . . But when you saw the log into lumber the mill gains a average of 30% plus on the log scale . On dolye the mill gains a lot more on small logs . 
Title: Re: Log prices
Post by: Woodfarmer on December 27, 2020, 07:42:41 PM
Ed, what would you recommend for the Ontario market? The majority of what I cut on a 12í log is in the 12-18Ē range.
Title: Re: Log prices
Post by: ehp on December 28, 2020, 08:34:18 AM
thats all depends on where its going and what it is , lots of veneer buyers hate 12 ft logs , they want 9 ft 6 inch , 8ft 6 inch and some take 10 ft 6 inch . If the logs are going state side the scale will be dolye.    You got to look at what your getting paid and in what dollars, usa or canadian. Hard maple that goes USA side starts at $2500/1000 in usa coin and that has to be the very bottom they will take , Good normal stuff right now average $4500/1000 usa up here and great stuff is above that . I have a good buddy thats starting to cut this week just north of you about an hour or so, He sent me the price list the mill up there offered him as he is mainly cutting hard maple , He is a good logger as I have worked with him before and his Dad . They offered him top grade sawlog in maple $750/1000 and they had 5 grades down to $200/1000 , veneer started at a a buck a ft up to a max of 4 bucks a ft all canadian coin , then I showed him my price list and his logs will go south now . Like I tell most people , cutting the tree is the easy part. Selling the tree is the hard part . Do not burn any bridges as you need every mill at some point but learn what each mill/buyer wants and work with them, you do that and you will not have to sell your logs as they will be phoning you looking for certain logs that they need . Unless your selling rotory veneer to the north which pays ok if thats what your logs real grade is but believe me if your logs are top grade stuff they will just flip them and make the money you should of
Title: Re: Log prices
Post by: ehp on December 28, 2020, 08:37:10 AM
now one thing is if your tree is good enough to have 2 high grade veneer logs in it leave it together and sell as one log , Cause the high grade guys only want the butt log 
Title: Re: Log prices
Post by: nativewolf on December 28, 2020, 08:44:20 AM
I can second @EHP posts on calling and getting the most for your effort.  Also on lengths.  Most veneer is a 9' market.  10' is fine and 8' 6" the bare minimum.  They don't want 12' and if you cut a 12 they will simply pay for it and then cut back and gain an inch in diameter and have the same volume. The message takeaway is to watch your taper.  If a 10' log is 20" and a 9' log is 21" than cut a 9' log and you have gained a free foot of wood to sell to someone else as a sawlog.  

I will comment on long veneer logs.  The buyers for long veneer logs are often Japanese buyers, they are specifically looking for long logs, 21' and 20' WO is something they pay more for.  We've had $6+ straight through on long rift quality WO.  

Word of caution.  Hard maple veneer pricing seems to be much lower in WV area than in Canada.  If I had hard maple that was nice, in WV, I would be bringing in a buyer from Canada or sending logs to canada.  Of course, it might be a quality issues..I don't know.  
Title: Re: Log prices
Post by: ehp on December 28, 2020, 09:29:28 AM
most of our maple goes to the States NW and are bought by USA buyers but now the border is closed the buyers cannot cross it so they just get people to buy for them here , The logs can cross no problem . Biggest  reason is on how fast the tree grows , the faster it grows the less the veneer guys want to see it and its bad in red oak here , WF is about 3 or so hours from me but his soil is totally different so have to look your stuff over quite hard for mineral but he has far better red oak if he is cutting right down near Lake Ontario than we do , our red oak does not have great color cause of the light color sand it goes on , now if he is a hour north of the lake thats a total different ball game , kind of like yesterday , my last tree before dark was a 3 ft walnut right beside the field , good and straight , few bumps but the biggest sap ring I have ever seen m like close to 50% , the rest were like say 3 or 4 inches of sap . I'm thinking maybe the crop spray as crop are 20 feet away 
Title: Re: Log prices
Post by: mike_belben on December 28, 2020, 11:58:12 AM
 believe me if your logs are top grade stuff they will just flip them and make the money you should of
:50 likes button:
Title: Re: Log prices
Post by: moodnacreek on December 28, 2020, 01:00:45 PM
believe me if your logs are top grade stuff they will just flip them and make the money you should of
:50 likes button:
The log buyers I have observed ship like, kind, and quality buy the trailer load. If you can do that you can sell to their buyer.
Title: Re: Log prices
Post by: stavebuyer on December 28, 2020, 01:58:50 PM
believe me if your logs are top grade stuff they will just flip them and make the money you should of
:50 likes button:
The log buyers I have observed ship like, kind, and quality buy the trailer load. If you can do that you can sell to their buyer.
Lots of people think if they just had the right phone number they could cut out the middleman. Not all that simple. Freight is expensive. Full trailer loads on good backhaul routes where an OTR flatbed can load during a monsoon reduces both procurement costs(buyers time and expenses) and brings freight within reason.
Yes if you have good access and trailer load lots and can be relied upon to load the logs next week or maybe a month from now all you need is a phone number. If you have 1/2 of a load of veneer in a cornfield with no gravel and are moving your loader tomorrow; your logs wont be worth nearly as much.



 
Title: Re: Log prices
Post by: ehp on December 28, 2020, 04:35:15 PM
I pretty much always know where the tree I'm cutting at that moment on where that log or logs are going , Right now some days I get zero or just a few veneer while other days I cut a full load of veneer so I setup a deal with the one mill that trucks my veneer back to there yard and then loads it on the trucks that are headed States side at a very low price and then I donot have to deal with loading a 53 ft trailer out a mile from solid ground in a field . I hate dealing with truck drivers that truck logs very little as most of the trucks that truck the veneer are flat bed trailers that run up and down the hwy . Mike if you do not know what you got as far as grade goes believe me the mill will buy your log at saw log price and flip it at veneer price , Its pretty much free money for them as you already paid the trucking to get it to the yard , so sell say a 4500 ft load that the mill buys at $1/ft then resells it at $3/ft every week thats making pretty easy and free money
Title: Re: Log prices
Post by: nativewolf on December 28, 2020, 06:06:26 PM
So true Ed.  We spent 3 days on another older loggers site helping him cut out middlemen on a white oak sale.  He almost exactly doubled his money but had never done that sort of sale where he had real top end buyers coming to his landing.  He was very impressed by his checks.  

That said sometimes it is just a matter of finding a better buyer.  We have a bridge timber buyer that can take tie logs and double your money.  Yet hundreds of trucks a day still find their way to tie yards instead of timber yard.  Just about double the money, even after deducting a $500 shipping fee.  I don't believe you can ever ever have enough buyers in your contact list.  If the buyers really want a log they are top price and they will let you know by paying top price.  

Our veneer buyers are sort of funny at the present but then we are sending out about the same amount of veneer as the average Northwest mill.  
Title: Re: Log prices
Post by: ehp on December 28, 2020, 06:17:02 PM
we are getting more buyers around here now but also more guys buying standing timber , Got a couple new guys buying timber I know nothing about but their paying very high prices on standing timber so either they got something figured out OR have no clue on what their doing , just seems strange that no one knows or ever heard of these guys but its all fair in love or war  8). We will see if they are still around by June 
Title: Re: Log prices
Post by: mike_belben on December 28, 2020, 06:46:35 PM
Mike if you do not know what you got as far as grade goes believe me the mill will buy your log at saw log price and flip it at veneer price , Its pretty much free money for them as you already paid the trucking to get it to the yard , so sell say a 4500 ft load that the mill buys at $1/ft then resells it at $3/ft every week thats making pretty easy and free money

It took me a few trips to figure out what class of logs were being held down on price in order to keep a margin open to yard them up and flip a load down the line.  I can do good on ties and good on WO staves.  Never had access to any walnut or veneer and never did that well on mid grade chubby sawlogs.  



I have a negative perspective on what is on the stump in much of tennessee and think nearly all of it needs a serious TSI and 40 more years before harvest to be anything more than pulp and tie.  So i basically just decided continuing to try to log was a road to self ruin and that id have to do other things, get a lot of other bottlenecks fixed before i tried it again.
I got busy pushing out hundreds of loads of fill dirt and rock so semi trucks can come in my yard all year.  Have got my big loader pretty reliable for loading or unloading.  Have room to bring home and concentrate full loads.  Got the stump bucket sorted out so it can grab by the ends and load containers.  Got the CDL and about 70 thousand miles experience. 



 Still need to set up firewood processing and maybe stave milling from bolt length salvage trimmings off otherwise junky logs with a good block or two on the butt.  Getting on county extension forestors good side.   Just got my first little shop frame up this week.  



Another lifetime of preparation to not lose any more houses on this next round.
Title: Re: Log prices
Post by: Ianab on December 28, 2020, 06:52:44 PM
We spent 3 days on another older loggers site helping him cut out middlemen on a white oak sale.  He almost exactly doubled his money but had never done that sort of sale where he had real top end buyers coming to his landing.  He was very impressed by his checks.  


That's the selling point that a local forest management company use.. 

They co-ordinate the logger / truckers and which logs go to what mill / port etc for the best return. They have the buyer contacts, know what each mill is wanting, and what they are paying. Logs get graded at the landing and go out when there is enough to make a truckload to that buyer. They can also run the sums related to trucking, a local mill may pay slightly less, but the trucking costs are much less. Don't pay $200 more for trucking to get $100 more for the logs. Of course they deduct a %, but if if they have increased the payments by 50%, and then take 10% for themselves, the land owner is well ahead and everyone gets paid. 
Title: Re: Log prices
Post by: Skeans1 on December 28, 2020, 07:46:02 PM
believe me if your logs are top grade stuff they will just flip them and make the money you should of
:50 likes button:
The log buyers I have observed ship like, kind, and quality buy the trailer load. If you can do that you can sell to their buyer.
Lots of people think if they just had the right phone number they could cut out the middleman. Not all that simple. Freight is expensive. Full trailer loads on good backhaul routes where an OTR flatbed can load during a monsoon reduces both procurement costs(buyers time and expenses) and brings freight within reason.
Yes if you have good access and trailer load lots and can be relied upon to load the logs next week or maybe a month from now all you need is a phone number. If you have 1/2 of a load of veneer in a cornfield with no gravel and are moving your loader tomorrow; your logs wont be worth nearly as much.



 
Sounds like you guys need mule trains vs highway trucks with flat beds. Youíd be amazed at where a long logger or a mule train can or will go and youíd donít need near the landing space because you can turn around.
Title: Re: Log prices
Post by: stavebuyer on December 29, 2020, 04:12:20 AM
believe me if your logs are top grade stuff they will just flip them and make the money you should of
:50 likes button:
The log buyers I have observed ship like, kind, and quality buy the trailer load. If you can do that you can sell to their buyer.
Lots of people think if they just had the right phone number they could cut out the middleman. Not all that simple. Freight is expensive. Full trailer loads on good backhaul routes where an OTR flatbed can load during a monsoon reduces both procurement costs(buyers time and expenses) and brings freight within reason.
Yes if you have good access and trailer load lots and can be relied upon to load the logs next week or maybe a month from now all you need is a phone number. If you have 1/2 of a load of veneer in a cornfield with no gravel and are moving your loader tomorrow; your logs wont be worth nearly as much.



 
Sounds like you guys need mule trains vs highway trucks with flat beds. Youíd be amazed at where a long logger or a mule train can or will go and youíd donít need near the landing space because you can turn around.
Specialized log trucks are one way high cost per mile and generally cost prohibitive for the multi-state distances veneer logs usually travel.
Title: Re: Log prices
Post by: stavebuyer on December 29, 2020, 04:29:57 AM
We spent 3 days on another older loggers site helping him cut out middlemen on a white oak sale.  He almost exactly doubled his money but had never done that sort of sale where he had real top end buyers coming to his landing.  He was very impressed by his checks.  


That's the selling point that a local forest management company use..

They co-ordinate the logger / truckers and which logs go to what mill / port etc for the best return. They have the buyer contacts, know what each mill is wanting, and what they are paying. Logs get graded at the landing and go out when there is enough to make a truckload to that buyer. They can also run the sums related to trucking, a local mill may pay slightly less, but the trucking costs are much less. Don't pay $200 more for trucking to get $100 more for the logs. Of course they deduct a %, but if if they have increased the payments by 50%, and then take 10% for themselves, the land owner is well ahead and everyone gets paid.
Brokers/wholesalers/consolidators serve a useful purpose. But some always think the other piece of the pie is bigger. Successful people understand that there are limits to what they can manage themselves and everyone in the chain needs to prosper or it breaks. Nothing wrong with knowing or demanding your worth but trying to do it all in order to keep it all seldom works out in the long run.
Title: Re: Log prices
Post by: SwampDonkey on December 29, 2020, 05:39:17 AM

That's the selling point that a local forest management company use..

They co-ordinate the logger / truckers and which logs go to what mill / port etc for the best return. They have the buyer contacts, know what each mill is wanting, and what they are paying. Logs get graded at the landing and go out when there is enough to make a truckload to that buyer. They can also run the sums related to trucking, a local mill may pay slightly less, but the trucking costs are much less. Don't pay $200 more for trucking to get $100 more for the logs. Of course they deduct a %, but if if they have increased the payments by 50%, and then take 10% for themselves, the land owner is well ahead and everyone gets paid.
That's pretty much what our marketing boards do. So there are very few businesses like that, and a handful that exist are still dependent on the marketing board for at least mill prices and specs which change all the time. But it is more than that to. In fact all the truckers hauling private wood go into the marketing board office to get paid on the mill scale slip. No chasing down woodlot owners for pay. All private wood sold has a levy on it to run the marketing board. Just like selling milk, only those guys have to pay two levels of government, provincial milk boards and federal. The producer, of anything, gives up a percentage to marketing, shipping, and whatever else someone can come up with. :D

My grandfather used to say about customs, "as long as they draw a breath, they'll collect a cheque". :D :D
Title: Re: Log prices
Post by: moodnacreek on December 29, 2020, 07:54:16 AM
As a sawmill [a very small one] I can buy all kinds of logs I can't really use. If the logs I want are mixed in a load of the other kind I may buy the whole load or loads. This is done for 2 reasons, first to get the logs I badly need and 2nd to keep the logger coming back. Those unwanted logs have to go before they spoil and I may have to finish cutting the branches etc. off them to help sell them. Also I have scaled and metal detected them. I hope to get a little more than I paid. Last spring I couldn't resell anything but the logger got paid.  Oh and here is another thing; if the logger really thinks I under scaled or somehow cheated him , he won't come back.
Title: Re: Log prices
Post by: nativewolf on December 29, 2020, 08:11:10 AM
Well in some other log price news:  YP has stopped moving up, we are at $600/mbf intl scale for prime butt logs and I expect that is where we start cutting.  
Title: Re: Log prices
Post by: Skeans1 on December 29, 2020, 10:57:47 AM
believe me if your logs are top grade stuff they will just flip them and make the money you should of
:50 likes button:
The log buyers I have observed ship like, kind, and quality buy the trailer load. If you can do that you can sell to their buyer.
Lots of people think if they just had the right phone number they could cut out the middleman. Not all that simple. Freight is expensive. Full trailer loads on good backhaul routes where an OTR flatbed can load during a monsoon reduces both procurement costs(buyers time and expenses) and brings freight within reason.
Yes if you have good access and trailer load lots and can be relied upon to load the logs next week or maybe a month from now all you need is a phone number. If you have 1/2 of a load of veneer in a cornfield with no gravel and are moving your loader tomorrow; your logs wont be worth nearly as much.



 
Sounds like you guys need mule trains vs highway trucks with flat beds. Youíd be amazed at where a long logger or a mule train can or will go and youíd donít need near the landing space because you can turn around.
Specialized log trucks are one way high cost per mile and generally cost prohibitive for the multi-state distances veneer logs usually travel.
I swap our truck over from fifth wheel to long logger in about half an hour. Whatís more costly is not being able to move wood in the wet if the trailer is piggy backed you can get up into places about like a pickup can. Whatís your average distance one way to the mill? Itís not uncommon for us to run the trucks over 100 miles one way and come back empty.
Title: Re: Log prices
Post by: mike_belben on December 29, 2020, 11:16:17 AM
The eastern seaboard is so developed with roads and freight lanes saturated with trucks and keeping the prices relatively low compared to running your own transport.  i think historically there has been no need to do the long logger setup outside of maybe specialized situations.  Our forests are half as tall as yours, so our logs are too.  A flat can run 60ft sticks on most interstates. Ive never seen a sawlog that long. 


In loadboard freight 100 miles is basically saying im home.   Under 2hours from base id just deadhead back. 
Title: Re: Log prices
Post by: Skeans1 on December 29, 2020, 11:31:07 AM
The eastern seaboard is so developed with roads and freight lanes saturated with trucks and keeping the prices relatively low compared to running your own transport.  i think historically there has been no need to do the long logger setup outside of maybe specialized situations.  Our forests are half as tall as yours, so our logs are too.  A flat can run 60ft sticks on most interstates. Ive never seen a sawlog that long.


In loadboard freight 100 miles is basically saying im home.   Under 2hours from base id just deadhead back.
A long logger can be converted to a short logger with a rack that set into the bunks. If you want to do a short setup that still can get around running a fifth wheel hitch skip the hay rack they donít track. They make a turkey rack that has a king pin it uses a log trailer and reach so the trailer will track plus get around a lot better then a flat bed trailer setup.
Title: Re: Log prices
Post by: SwampDonkey on December 29, 2020, 12:39:27 PM
Within 30 miles here to our markets, including veneer. But we don't have the big wood for the big prices up here because after 20" a hardwood is going down hill in quality in these parts. A few rare gems, but very rare. Severe weather, a lot of ice storms and heavy wet snow and wind. Seen the weather ruin a whole woodlot that had TSI work done on it. Not uncommon to see. Kinda takes the wind out of your sails, after you did a great job. ::)
Title: Re: Log prices
Post by: nativewolf on December 29, 2020, 01:21:49 PM
Our qs is about 370 miles, veneer is at least 300, bridge timbers are 174, some walnut goes to Canada 
Title: Re: Log prices
Post by: mike_belben on December 29, 2020, 06:30:45 PM
The eastern seaboard is so developed with roads and freight lanes saturated with trucks and keeping the prices relatively low compared to running your own transport.  i think historically there has been no need to do the long logger setup outside of maybe specialized situations.  Our forests are half as tall as yours, so our logs are too.  A flat can run 60ft sticks on most interstates. Ive never seen a sawlog that long.


In loadboard freight 100 miles is basically saying im home.   Under 2hours from base id just deadhead back.
A long logger can be converted to a short logger with a rack that set into the bunks. If you want to do a short setup that still can get around running a fifth wheel hitch skip the hay rack they donít track. They make a turkey rack that has a king pin it uses a log trailer and reach so the trailer will track plus get around a lot better then a flat bed trailer setup.
Im sure it all works great but you cant buy what isnt for sale.  The east coast just doesnt have west coast iron to purchase.  Also doesnt have the giant wood to need it.
Title: Re: Log prices
Post by: stavebuyer on December 29, 2020, 06:49:51 PM
The eastern seaboard is so developed with roads and freight lanes saturated with trucks and keeping the prices relatively low compared to running your own transport.  i think historically there has been no need to do the long logger setup outside of maybe specialized situations.  Our forests are half as tall as yours, so our logs are too.  A flat can run 60ft sticks on most interstates. Ive never seen a sawlog that long.


In loadboard freight 100 miles is basically saying im home.   Under 2hours from base id just deadhead back.
A long logger can be converted to a short logger with a rack that set into the bunks. If you want to do a short setup that still can get around running a fifth wheel hitch skip the hay rack they donít track. They make a turkey rack that has a king pin it uses a log trailer and reach so the trailer will track plus get around a lot better then a flat bed trailer setup.
Im sure it all works great but you cant buy what isnt for sale.  The east coast just doesnt have west coast iron to purchase.  Also doesnt have the giant wood to need it.
I have had a couple loggers that used them for tree length pulp. Veneer logs are 9'/10' and doubles. 400-500 mile hauls. They either get backhauled on flat beds or they pass on the logs. Other than the occasional pine power pole going south to the gulf  coast all logs in the mid-south get sawed local, go north(great lakes) for veneer, or to a port for export. Like Mike said more than 100 miles you better are off finding a flat bed needing a backhaul. 
Title: Re: Log prices
Post by: ehp on December 29, 2020, 08:30:23 PM
1 mill for me is about 30 miles from me , the other maybe 5 miles right now , veneer can be pretty much up to half way around the world 
Title: Re: Log prices
Post by: Dave Shepard on December 29, 2020, 09:23:45 PM
The eastern seaboard is so developed with roads and freight lanes saturated with trucks and keeping the prices relatively low compared to running your own transport.  i think historically there has been no need to do the long logger setup outside of maybe specialized situations.  Our forests are half as tall as yours, so our logs are too.  A flat can run 60ft sticks on most interstates. Ive never seen a sawlog that long.


In loadboard freight 100 miles is basically saying im home.   Under 2hours from base id just deadhead back.
Mike, here's a 68'-6" pine that will make a 12"x12" with no wane. Didn't go in a truck,  I just drove the skidder up the road.

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/14240/20140408_152150_28129.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1396989025)
 
Title: Re: Log prices
Post by: barbender on December 29, 2020, 11:25:51 PM
👆👆Braggart😁😂
Title: Re: Log prices
Post by: SwampDonkey on December 30, 2020, 04:49:15 AM
I've seen the Mennonites skid firewood 4 miles down pavement, no wheels under it. :D They do a lot of stuff after dark. Including fetching a mystery bale of hay from a field sitting within feet of the US border at 3:00 am in the morning. A field they don't own. ;)
Title: Re: Log prices
Post by: barbender on December 30, 2020, 10:19:17 AM
That sort of stuff must make them much loved 😬
Title: Re: Log prices
Post by: mike_belben on December 30, 2020, 10:28:53 AM
Theyre pretty good around here.  But theres always a contingent that likes to throw stones. 
Title: Re: Log prices
Post by: moodnacreek on December 30, 2020, 12:31:01 PM
And I always herd Maine moose tastes better than Canadian moose.
Title: Re: Log prices
Post by: SwampDonkey on December 30, 2020, 01:29:07 PM
And I always herd Maine moose tastes better than Canadian moose.
There's a difference between fact and hearsay. :D

Brings to mind the neighbor making the comment "they say his syrup tastes like wood smoke", when it was not boiled down with wood and she never had any to taste. :D
Title: Re: Log prices
Post by: Southside on December 30, 2020, 09:48:25 PM
And I always herd Maine moose tastes better than Canadian moose.
If you had ever seen the games played on the Maine / Quebec border during hunting season.  
Title: Re: Log prices
Post by: nativewolf on December 31, 2020, 06:29:14 AM
Not sure how many people sell white oak quartersaw logs but prices are up a bit, the whole quartersaw market looks to be recovering.  Chestnut oak is up to over $2.20/bdft for good 21" and up logs.  Push a bit and get $2.50 I guess.  @stavebuyer (https://forestryforum.com/board/index.php?action=profile;u=15189) might know more, he's closer to the quartersaw market leaders like graff and taylor (whatever they are called today).  
Title: Re: Log prices
Post by: mike_belben on December 31, 2020, 09:16:45 AM
What makes a log quartersaw specific say versus a good stave or rotary or slicer veneer?
Title: Re: Log prices
Post by: ehp on December 31, 2020, 09:55:03 AM
not really sure why but got $6/ft for that walnut with huge sap ring , thats pretty good for stuff like that 
Title: Re: Log prices
Post by: nativewolf on December 31, 2020, 11:50:56 AM
What makes a log quartersaw specific say versus a good stave or rotary or slicer veneer?
Diameter and grade mostly.  18" and up but it  can be a 1 or even no side clear log.  Big is best.  We sent some big 2 sided logs at 2.20, which is good for a 2 side clear log, even if it is 28" dbh.  Big red oak like that is $0.50/bdft.  
Title: Re: Log prices
Post by: nativewolf on December 31, 2020, 12:46:25 PM
not really sure why but got $6/ft for that walnut with huge sap ring , thats pretty good for stuff like that
wow, that is good.  Congrats!
Title: Re: Log prices
Post by: ehp on December 31, 2020, 01:40:10 PM
Ya walnut seems to be red hot right now.  Some guts are paying crazy prices on standing walnut  right now . Almost done this job and got another small and I mean small job to do about 2 miles away but there is walnut in it so maybe good timing to cut it . Nothing very big . Stuff like 20 to 30 inch 
Title: Re: Log prices
Post by: SwampDonkey on December 31, 2020, 03:37:12 PM
I've seen the Mennonites skid firewood 4 miles down pavement, no wheels under it.
"Oh, they would never do that." How much you wanna bet? :D :D :D
Down the pavement by the Royalton church on the Crawford Road. Tractor with Farmi.

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/11009/firewood-road.jpg)

Firewood yard a 200 yards from there.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/11009/firewood-yard.jpg)
Title: Re: Log prices
Post by: nativewolf on March 19, 2021, 06:37:30 PM
Big news here is that the veneer buyers are looking for quality chestnut oak butt logs, $2.5 here in northern VA on the landing.  More as you get closer to Ohio where I bet it is $3 or more now.  

White oak veneer continues to smolder along, we averaged $4.75 on our last load.  Walnut veneer is supposed to be smoking but I have only had good-crap saw logs, $5-1 ($1 is 9" firewood).  Going to find out in a few weeks.

YP veneer is indeed $1.20, $1 on our landing.  I hear $1.5 in Ohio.

YP sawlogs are starting at $0.70 on international and down to $0.350 for no side clear junk on international scale (which is something to think about because 12" limby no side clear YP stems are normally about impossible to move).
Title: Re: Log prices
Post by: nativewolf on March 22, 2021, 11:21:49 AM
So I was chatting with the buyer who bought 40k standing walnut from us 2 years ago.  We did well,  no complains . He sold the best log as a 32í veneer triple log $19,620. 8).  $20/bdft 

I am glad he did well, we only sold 1/2 volume maybe cut some more in October.  Maybe sell some myself.  
Title: Re: Log prices
Post by: mike_belben on March 22, 2021, 10:40:20 PM
I just heard the price of 'highly valuable' craigslist front yard iron clad walnut triple.  Chaching.
Title: Re: Log prices
Post by: Walnut Beast on March 22, 2021, 11:14:59 PM
So I was chatting with the buyer who bought 40k standing walnut from us 2 years ago.  We did well,  no complains . He sold the best log as a 32í veneer triple log $19,620. 8).  $20/bdft

I am glad he did well, we only sold 1/2 volume maybe cut some more in October.  Maybe sell some myself.  
Very nice. How many trees were there in that deal
Title: Re: Log prices
Post by: nativewolf on March 23, 2021, 06:10:21 AM
We maybe cut 120 altogether in two sales.  He cut the very best tree and 4 others that were monsters plus maybe 80 others.  Some had a bit of peck, a few were very pecky.  I've got to cut another 20 this year, wish EHP or one of our other real hand cutters were heading south sooner.  They'd have them down while we were fussing with our YP and oaks.  

In the two years since then Walnut has gone up and down but $5/bdft standing was a rich rich price in that year.  We were very happy.  Today with good sawlogs hitting 5 I think we'd do even better but still we would likely have cut it ourselves.  
Title: Re: Log prices
Post by: mudfarmer on March 24, 2021, 08:34:40 AM
120 people out of work in the black hills, this mill relied on 80% of their material coming from USFS and I guess that's not happening Hill City saw mill closes, eliminating 120 jobs | Local | rapidcityjournal.com (https://rapidcityjournal.com/business/local/hill-city-saw-mill-closes-eliminating-120-jobs/article_7d329c67-85ef-5265-9992-f34cdc545cf1.html)

Doesn't matter if the price is low or high if you can't get material at any price ::)

Someone buy up the equipment and move it down south where that oversupply is before it ends up overseas ;D
Title: Re: Log prices
Post by: stihlsawer on March 24, 2021, 09:06:06 AM
Here's a link that I use. Tennessee Prices | Timber Update (https://timberupdate.com/timber-prices/tennessee-prices/) 
Title: Re: Log prices
Post by: mike_belben on March 24, 2021, 12:43:19 PM
Thats a ripoff unless its stumpage pricing. I didnt see a stipulation.  For example $425/thousand on white oak "sawtimber" lumps all of it into one grade.  A WO tie log brings about $400/mbf.. Staves are $1,000 to $2,000 so theyre gonna pay tie for a stave?  

.70cents a foot on walnut?

The vagueness of the site makes it a challenge to know if theyre sharks looking for a little old lady with a back 40 or not.  I suspect the price sheet is claiming those are delivered to mill prices and youll get a cut of it.  If so, theyre ripoffs claiming not to be.  If theyre paying those prices for stumpage upfront, then its a totally different situation.  I cant tell.


Buying the entire forest at the lowest sawlog price is one common ripoff strategy.  Everything thats better than pulp will make a tie. Paying "shares" of say 50/50 to the landowner at a tie log rate for all harvested WO means that everything better than tie log isnt shared with the landowner.   Everything better than a tie will be sorted and sold for its top price but the landowner will get paid as if it were a tie.   Logger keeps the spread, so on really good logs the lamdowner might only get 10 or 20% of the true value.

"I will go 50/50 on the white oak at $425/mbf" is how that will sound.  

A better deal for the landowner is "i will go 50/50 on everything WO and i get $425/mbf for tie, 550 on common sawlogs and about $1500/mbf avg on staves, maybe better on some other stuff.  

If you ask the ripoff artist a rate on the prime A, stave and veneer he will know you arent gonna be fooled by the lump pricing. 


These are realistic prices in middle TN without much marketing.. Savy guys like EHP, native wolf and so il logger do much better in specialty marketing.
Title: Re: Log prices
Post by: stihlsawer on March 24, 2021, 01:02:29 PM
Thats a ripoff unless its stumpage pricing. I didnt see a stipulation.  For example $425/thousand on white oak "sawtimber" lumps all of it into one grade.  A WO tie log brings about $400/mbf.. Staves are $1,000 to $2,000 so theyre gonna pay tie for a stave?  

.70cents a foot on walnut?

The vagueness of the site makes it a challenge to know if theyre sharks looking for a little old lady with a back 40 or not.  I suspect the price sheet is claiming those are delivered to mill prices and youll get a cut of it.  If so, theyre ripoffs claiming not to be.  If theyre paying those prices for stumpage upfront, then its a totally different situation.  I cant tell.


Buying the entire forest at the lowest sawlog price is one common ripoff strategy.  Everything thats better than pulp will make a tie. Paying "shares" of say 50/50 to the landowner at a tie log rate for all harvested WO means that everything better than tie log isnt shared with the landowner.   Everything better than a tie will be sorted and sold for its top price but the landowner will get paid as if it were a tie.   Logger keeps the spread, so on really good logs the lamdowner might only get 10 or 20% of the true value.

"I will go 50/50 on the white oak at $425/mbf" is how that will sound.  

A better deal for the landowner is "i will go 50/50 on everything WO and i get $425/mbf for tie and about $1500/mbf avg on staves, maybe better on some other stuff.  


These are realistic prices in middle TN without much marketing.. Savy guys like EHP, native wolf and so il logger do much better in specialty marketing.
It's my understanding that it's stumpage and not delivered to the mill. I could be wrong though. 
Title: Re: Log prices
Post by: stihlsawer on March 24, 2021, 01:04:05 PM
I wished the State still published a quarterly like they did a few years ago.
Title: Re: Log prices
Post by: mike_belben on March 24, 2021, 01:07:37 PM
it would be very prudent to verify.  I dont mean to slander anyone and i have no knowledge of them.  Such practices give loggers a very bad reputation throughout the state.  Terrible pay and terrible practices.  The freedom we enjoy has a consequence, anyone can jump in.
Title: Re: Log prices
Post by: Tom King on March 24, 2021, 03:11:18 PM
According to that, looks like I hit the right time, a few years ago, getting a Pine stand thinned, and got 15.25 for pulpwood.
Title: Re: Log prices
Post by: stavebuyer on March 24, 2021, 07:58:30 PM
I read it as standing prices. Still quite low.
Title: Re: Log prices
Post by: WDH on March 24, 2021, 09:53:58 PM
If you click the Georgia link, those prices are stumpage prices. 
Title: Re: Log prices
Post by: Hogdaddy on March 24, 2021, 10:26:23 PM
So, I cut/sold 11,500 last week, 6,000 feet was red/black oak, 3200 was hickory, 1200 poplar(the poplar was just avg at best), rest was just a couple hard maple and 1 white oak. red oak avg .56, all logs avg .47. thats everything, tree run, 15 stump cut, pallet, ties, grade, no veneer of course. All sold to one sawmill. doyle scale.  I'm in south central ky, about half way between louisville and nashville. what do you guys think about those prices?  Sounds a lot cheaper than what y'all been talking about, but....
Title: Re: Log prices
Post by: mike_belben on March 24, 2021, 11:46:28 PM
Thats a touch better probably than i would do if i brought everything to any one mill on the cumberland plateau.  A combination of poor juvenile timber and too many loggers willing to slave away for nothing.   Theres no way i could break $2/bf on anything localish at all. 
Title: Re: Log prices
Post by: nativewolf on March 25, 2021, 07:06:25 AM
So, I cut/sold 11,500 last week, 6,000 feet was red/black oak, 3200 was hickory, 1200 poplar(the poplar was just avg at best), rest was just a couple hard maple and 1 white oak. red oak avg .56, all logs avg .47. thats everything, tree run, 15 stump cut, pallet, ties, grade, no veneer of course. All sold to one sawmill. doyle scale.  I'm in south central ky, about half way between louisville and nashville. what do you guys think about those prices?  Sounds a lot cheaper than what y'all been talking about, but....
Well first off congrats on sticking it out, it's been a tough few years hasn't it.  Overall I'd say probably not terrible considering it was sent to 1 mill.
Without a doubt the best way to increase income is to be able store enough logs of a particular grade so that you can have a truckload of a particular product go to the highest bidder for that product.  Still lets talk about what might be done.  If I understand you cut and bucked 15 trees, totaling 11,500 bdft doyle?  There were some big trees.  Size matters so if you have big timber that's good.


Right now oak tie logs are going for $0.55 doyle here in VA.  So basically everything just for tie logs would have almost gotten to the same value (leaving the YP out of it for now).   Hickory would sell at a discount.  Decent hickory logs 3 side clear stuff are selling for $0.60-80 /bdft to exporters.  Hickory veneer, 4sc with some good heartwood, is going for up to $1000/mbf.  Veneer in our case has quite a bit of trucking costs so our veneer pricing could be better if we were closer to Ohio.  


If you have large diameter long rough logs call around and see if you can find a mill cutting bridge timbers, they pay a pretty good premium for a long tie log quality log.  In lynchburg VA the oak and hickory would have sold for $700/MBF as a 30' stick if it had a 15" top and was straight.  That is international so converting it back to doyle would add at least 10% on top so.  Exporters are paying $1600/mbf for the RO and Black oak veneer and they are buying black oak.  Best sawlogs are going for $0.70/bdft here at local sawmill.  


Poplar is very strong right now.  Our best poplar mill raised their lowest log price to $0.325 international scale (basically the top junky log).  We strip the veneer out and send the rest to them and are averaging $0.53.  Now that's a huge grain of salt right there, international scale is very helpful, 3 local mils buy on that and it makes a difference.  This mill specializes in poplar, if they need it they buy it.  I do know that in TN poplar is very strong as well.  If your mill is not paying $700 or thereabouts for the best quality poplar than they are not paying a competitive price.  That's all the insight I can give you into the poplar price.  


All in all I'd say that if I were in your shoes I'd spend a few days on the phone.  I'd try to find some mill cutting bridge timbers.  They'd buy up your oak and hickory in longer lengths so there is less bucking (have to be able to move around a 30' piece of oak though).  I'd see if you could save up enough money so you can go a month holding onto the best logs and get a log buyer to come in to look at export logs.  Sometimes it's hard to save enough money to let you hold onto 80 good logs that would interest a log buyer.  
Title: Re: Log prices
Post by: Hogdaddy on March 25, 2021, 09:53:32 AM
So, I cut/sold 11,500 last week, 6,000 feet was red/black oak, 3200 was hickory, 1200 poplar(the poplar was just avg at best), rest was just a couple hard maple and 1 white oak. red oak avg .56, all logs avg .47. thats everything, tree run, 15 stump cut, pallet, ties, grade, no veneer of course. All sold to one sawmill. doyle scale.  I'm in south central ky, about half way between louisville and nashville. what do you guys think about those prices?  Sounds a lot cheaper than what y'all been talking about, but....
Well first off congrats on sticking it out, it's been a tough few years hasn't it.  Overall I'd say probably not terrible considering it was sent to 1 mill.
Without a doubt the best way to increase income is to be able store enough logs of a particular grade so that you can have a truckload of a particular product go to the highest bidder for that product.  Still lets talk about what might be done.  If I understand you cut and bucked 15 trees, totaling 11,500 bdft doyle?  There were some big trees.  Size matters so if you have big timber that's good.


Right now oak tie logs are going for $0.55 doyle here in VA.  So basically everything just for tie logs would have almost gotten to the same value (leaving the YP out of it for now).   Hickory would sell at a discount.  Decent hickory logs 3 side clear stuff are selling for $0.60-80 /bdft to exporters.  Hickory veneer, 4sc with some good heartwood, is going for up to $1000/mbf.  Veneer in our case has quite a bit of trucking costs so our veneer pricing could be better if we were closer to Ohio.  


If you have large diameter long rough logs call around and see if you can find a mill cutting bridge timbers, they pay a pretty good premium for a long tie log quality log.  In lynchburg VA the oak and hickory would have sold for $700/MBF as a 30' stick if it had a 15" top and was straight.  That is international so converting it back to doyle would add at least 10% on top so.  Exporters are paying $1600/mbf for the RO and Black oak veneer and they are buying black oak.  Best sawlogs are going for $0.70/bdft here at local sawmill.  


Poplar is very strong right now.  Our best poplar mill raised their lowest log price to $0.325 international scale (basically the top junky log).  We strip the veneer out and send the rest to them and are averaging $0.53.  Now that's a huge grain of salt right there, international scale is very helpful, 3 local mils buy on that and it makes a difference.  This mill specializes in poplar, if they need it they buy it.  I do know that in TN poplar is very strong as well.  If your mill is not paying $700 or thereabouts for the best quality poplar than they are not paying a competitive price.  That's all the insight I can give you into the poplar price.  


All in all I'd say that if I were in your shoes I'd spend a few days on the phone.  I'd try to find some mill cutting bridge timbers.  They'd buy up your oak and hickory in longer lengths so there is less bucking (have to be able to move around a 30' piece of oak though).  I'd see if you could save up enough money so you can go a month holding onto the best logs and get a log buyer to come in to look at export logs.  Sometimes it's hard to save enough money to let you hold onto 80 good logs that would interest a log buyer.  
Oh no, the timber is no where that big, probably 45 trees or so to make the 11,500 bft... Thanks for the input! 

As far as holding logs, that's no problem. I just don't know any export buyers in my area, guess I need to do some scouting around for more buyers. 

But, as far as quality,, the logs were just average.. the red oak was the best, but they start get bumpy up the tree anywhere from 16' on up
Title: Re: Log prices
Post by: mike_belben on March 25, 2021, 01:16:47 PM
I also thought it was 15 trees.. Whatd you mean by 15 stump cut then?


 sounds like you got normal price for normal timber, if it were where i live.  I guess we have comparable situations.
Title: Re: Log prices
Post by: nativewolf on March 25, 2021, 09:35:15 PM
News today on RO:  

Doyle:  $1000 prime sawlogs, $800+ on good clear logs, $800 for large 3SC.  Lower quality log prices are way up as well.  

Just like with our YP pricing seeing this move up on lower grade logs is really key.  
Title: Re: Log prices
Post by: Tacotodd on March 25, 2021, 09:49:17 PM
Itís about time.
Title: Re: Log prices
Post by: nativewolf on March 25, 2021, 10:03:17 PM
Itís about time.
Absolutely!  That's from a very very large industry player so if they are paying that than it should show up across the East Coast
Title: Re: Log prices
Post by: Southside on March 25, 2021, 10:39:57 PM
How far is the trucking?
Title: Re: Log prices
Post by: nativewolf on March 26, 2021, 07:05:29 AM
How far is the trucking?
That is picked up on landing for us.  I imagine that price would hold down to Augusta county if you were looking to sell some RO.  However, that is really most useful for those sticks that are either large diameter or short.  For long 15"-20" 30' top $ RO to Long Island $700 intl 
Title: Re: Log prices
Post by: Hogdaddy on March 27, 2021, 11:22:44 PM
I also thought it was 15 trees.. Whatd you mean by 15 stump cut then?


 sounds like you got normal price for normal timber, if it were where i live.  I guess we have comparable situations.
15" stump cut. Id' say your right on the similar situations.  
Title: Re: Log prices
Post by: nativewolf on April 13, 2021, 12:28:10 PM
So lots of news today.  

Hard Maple- wow...smoking hot.  20% increase in generic sawlog prices this week.  I don't have a stick, hardly any soft maple either.  Roughly 1200-1300 international scale for 12" or 13" 3 sided 

Walnut up 5%

White up 5%

HM is the story of the week with 2 mill sending emails begging.  
@ehp (https://forestryforum.com/board/index.php?action=profile;u=1195) What you hear from the great north?  @BargeMonkey (https://forestryforum.com/board/index.php?action=profile;u=24634) - time to push on the sales price, just basic logs.  Even junky stuff seems to pushing a buck.
Title: Re: Log prices
Post by: Tacotodd on April 13, 2021, 12:44:26 PM
Itís about time that some loggers are getting paid what they are worth, especially considering the extremes that they must go through. Besides that, now they are just being able to keep up with inflation.
Title: Re: Log prices
Post by: nativewolf on April 13, 2021, 12:52:21 PM
Itís about time that some loggers are getting paid what they are worth, especially considering the extremes that they must go through. Besides that, now they are just being able to keep up with inflation.
I am happy for the guys in the north, lots of pulp mill closures in the last few years and they need a shot in the arm.  This should be great for MI, WI, and New England loggers
Title: Re: Log prices
Post by: ehp on April 13, 2021, 03:21:22 PM
I'm not cutting hardwood this week. I'm cutting pine and its going ok on price . The top grade is the same but I got the other grades up $50/1000 above what they were paying so I'm happy . Good hard maple has been hot here the last 6 plus months . I know I could sell all I can find at very good prices . White oak is up in sawlog price as well 
Title: Re: Log prices
Post by: BargeMonkey on April 13, 2021, 08:08:47 PM
I cant pound it fast enough, finishing up this junk job and go hammer out 8-10ld of decent hard maple and ash this week before the price drops. Places are getting pretty packed around here but the prices are still up. 
Title: Re: Log prices
Post by: moodnacreek on April 13, 2021, 08:43:20 PM
That's good news about h.m. but warm weather is coming.
Title: Re: Log prices
Post by: nativewolf on April 14, 2021, 06:43:36 AM
I cant pound it fast enough, finishing up this junk job and go hammer out 8-10ld of decent hard maple and ash this week before the price drops. Places are getting pretty packed around here but the prices are still up.
AMEX is literally begging for HM logs. 
Title: Re: Log prices
Post by: nativewolf on April 14, 2021, 06:44:26 AM
That's good news about h.m. but warm weather is coming.
Yep, hope to get everything on the ground this month.  Then forward and sell in May, cleanup in June.
Title: Re: Log prices
Post by: nativewolf on April 14, 2021, 07:00:20 AM
Crossties in oak are up to $0.60 international
Title: Re: Log prices
Post by: WDH on April 14, 2021, 07:53:08 AM
Hardwood Market Report this week for tractor trailer load quantity of hardwood lumber, rough, kiln dried shows all hardwood wholesale prices are sill going up strong.  FAS white oak $3.60/bf.  Hard maple $2.63.  Soft maple $2.32.  Red oak $1.86.  Walnut $4.88.  Some comments:

Ash- Sawmills are readily moving all developing green ash production.  In fact, buyers, especially exporting concentration yards, are asking for more than mills can supply.

Cherry - Sales contacts report brisk kiln dried cherry business.

Hard maple - With white and painted finishes over tight grained whitewoods the prevailing fashion, especially in cabinets, hard maple business is booming.

Soft maple - Soft maple has gained traction in the marketplace.  Some end users that prefer hard maple, but which cannot find enough, have become more receptive to soft maple.

#2A and 3A oak.  Competition for #2A and 3A red oak and white oak is intense. 

White Oak - Sawmills and downstream operations are struggling to produce or procure enough white oak to meet demand.Virtually every grade/thickness combination of green and kiln dried white oak is scarce. 

Red Oak- Competitive pressures are pushing prices for some items to the highest levels since 2013 and 2014.

Yellow poplar- Demand for this species remains vibrant.  Consumption by the moulding/millwork industry is especially strong. 

Walnut - Shortages and robust demand are elevating market intensity for walnut.  Sales contacts indicate all grades and thicknesses are moving quickly, and they are frequently losing orders for lack of supply.  Chinese buyers are assertively purchasing walnut logs and lumber.  At the same time, demand is increasing in the US. 
Title: Re: Log prices
Post by: nativewolf on April 14, 2021, 08:25:10 AM
Thanks Danny.  I'll be sure to push on our walnut pricing.

Interesting thing about to occur in WO.  WO QS market traditionally prices logs much more highly than flat sawn( paying more for large logs) .  Today the flat sawn lumber is reaching QS lumber pricing and that is going to put pressure on the large WO.  I've never seen Flat sawn WO priced at QS WO pricing.  

Wondering if @YellowHammer (https://forestryforum.com/board/index.php?action=profile;u=11488) is seeing that impact.
Title: Re: Log prices
Post by: ehp on April 14, 2021, 10:35:29 AM
I wonder for the soft maple is that just white or can it be wormy . Our wormy price for logs is quite low compared to white color
Title: Re: Log prices
Post by: YellowHammer on April 14, 2021, 12:35:54 PM
Yes, I am seeing that, and it's already having an impact, as customers who traditionally get QS WO lumber from other vendors are now struggling to get it, for those reasons, and are buying me out as fast as I can produce it.  WO log prices have jumped, and I'm having to make adjustments.  
Title: Re: Log prices
Post by: nativewolf on April 14, 2021, 02:46:14 PM
Yes, I am seeing that, and it's already having an impact, as customers who traditionally get QS WO lumber from other vendors are now struggling to get it, for those reasons, and are buying me out as fast as I can produce it.  WO log prices have jumped, and I'm having to make adjustments.  
What are you paying for a 3 sided 20" type log if you don't mind me asking.
Title: Re: Log prices
Post by: nativewolf on April 14, 2021, 05:26:36 PM
As for us on the QS we average from $1.5-2.20 for really nice logs.  That's on the landing, they truck.  Wish we had a QS mill a bit closer because trucking is adding $1200/load.
Title: Re: Log prices
Post by: WDH on April 15, 2021, 07:21:50 AM
The soft maple price is for white only, not wormy. 
Title: Re: Log prices
Post by: ehp on April 15, 2021, 08:01:51 AM
Ok that makes sense cause our white is almost double our wormy log price . We use to get good money for wormy but not the last 2 years 
Title: Re: Log prices
Post by: Hogdaddy on May 04, 2021, 11:55:06 AM
Hey guys, any updates or are things holding about the same? Traded for a bunch that has about 10k feet of walnut, most will be lumber logs... is it still holding up?
Title: Re: Log prices
Post by: Ed_K on May 05, 2021, 07:27:28 AM
 I don't know about hardwood prices this morning but softwood on Bloomburg Market report this morning is $1482.50 per mbf. I was shocked at the price of a barrel oil, it jumped $3. to $69.50. They were talking that gas would get to $3.00 a gallon by memorial day here in New England.
Title: Re: Log prices
Post by: nativewolf on May 05, 2021, 08:03:17 AM
Hey guys, any updates or are things holding about the same? Traded for a bunch that has about 10k feet of walnut, most will be lumber logs... is it still holding up?
You will be fine for now, the end of the export season might cause a slight drop.  Right now good sawlogs top out $4-5.  I get $1/bdft on limbs/top logs at 10" or so in 7-8' sections.  2.50 is normal for a 3 sided small sawlog.  Much of that has to get trucked to Ohio and that's quite a freight bill, if you are closer you will make more or if you can truck.  Especially on lower grade logs this makes a difference.  Know your mill specs, some take to 7' some need 8' and some Amish mills take 6'.  That makes a huge difference (For me a big fat crotchy butt log going to an Amish mill with double heart but 26" in diameter can be 6' but it is no good for export or the non Amish buyers).  On that sort of big double hearted log we still get $3/bdft whereas if it were oak or any other species it would be left in the woods or pulped.  
YP is smoking hot.  $900/thousand is not hard to find for good logs.  2 sided big logs at $600-750 and that makes all the difference cutting junky old field YP (sometimes I can't give it away).  
RO just moved up a bit in good sawlogs.
Title: Re: Log prices
Post by: bannerd on May 05, 2021, 01:16:35 PM
I've been selling soft pine for .10 cents a bf, not much change around here.  I believe the black walnut is about $4 a bf.  With fuel costs going up.. not sure in the future.
Title: Re: Log prices
Post by: Hogdaddy on May 06, 2021, 08:44:49 AM
Hey guys, any updates or are things holding about the same? Traded for a bunch that has about 10k feet of walnut, most will be lumber logs... is it still holding up?
You will be fine for now, the end of the export season might cause a slight drop.  Right now good sawlogs top out $4-5.  I get $1/bdft on limbs/top logs at 10" or so in 7-8' sections.  2.50 is normal for a 3 sided small sawlog.  Much of that has to get trucked to Ohio and that's quite a freight bill, if you are closer you will make more or if you can truck.  Especially on lower grade logs this makes a difference.  Know your mill specs, some take to 7' some need 8' and some Amish mills take 6'.  That makes a huge difference (For me a big fat crotchy butt log going to an Amish mill with double heart but 26" in diameter can be 6' but it is no good for export or the non Amish buyers).  On that sort of big double hearted log we still get $3/bdft whereas if it were oak or any other species it would be left in the woods or pulped.  
YP is smoking hot.  $900/thousand is not hard to find for good logs.  2 sided big logs at $600-750 and that makes all the difference cutting junky old field YP (sometimes I can't give it away).  
RO just moved up a bit in good sawlogs.
Thank you, NW
Title: Re: Log prices
Post by: cutterboy on May 06, 2021, 11:51:10 AM
 They were talking that gas would get to $3.00 a gallon by memorial day here in New England.
My local gas station went to 2.99 yesterday. He is usually higher than other stations but is the only station within 12 miles of me.
Title: Re: Log prices
Post by: thecfarm on May 12, 2021, 05:40:51 AM
I kinda like the way "they" warn us that gas prices will go up.  ::)  Than if we complain, "they" can so, we warned you.  ::) 
Title: Re: Log prices
Post by: nativewolf on May 12, 2021, 06:58:31 AM
Hoping we can keep this thread to LOG prices, there was a thread on lumber prices that had turned into a general inflation/price of life thread.  

Trying to keep folks updated with pricing as we hear about it, good and bad, on species that we deal with hoping it might help someone on the forum.
Title: Re: Log prices
Post by: Hogdaddy on May 15, 2021, 09:56:34 PM
Just to help keep the thread going, I got about 11,450 ft of saw logs in this week. All tree run, cutting it pretty hard,(that's what the landowner wants) 7400 ft was redoak, 900 ft was poplar, rest was a few white oak and hickory. Averaged .54.  Mat logs 16', 10" and up, 18',12" and up averaged .47. Just one small load, about 1500ft.
Title: Re: Log prices
Post by: nativewolf on May 16, 2021, 08:39:50 AM
Good to see mat logs market is still there.  Gas pipelines business is going to go bye bye but it should be replaced by high tension lines.  
Title: Re: Log prices
Post by: Southside on May 16, 2021, 08:49:01 AM
You do realize there is a Colonial Pipeline tank farm not too far from you with a couple million gallons of fuel right? Not to mention the others they own. There was no actual shortage. 
Title: Re: Log prices
Post by: nativewolf on May 16, 2021, 09:32:23 AM
Talking about mats for building new pipelines.  

Of course that tank farm was less than 5 miles from my old home, don't miss it.  Plenty of gas there I hear, not enough truck drivers to keep up with the idiots filling washtubs with fuel. 

RE truck drivers.  Shortages everywhere.  Every mill we ship to is short drivers.  I have heard of a logging outfit in Alabama with 25 trucks and trailers and down to 4 drivers.  Logging outfits constrained by trucking in danger of losing equipment.  
Title: Re: Log prices
Post by: BargeMonkey on May 16, 2021, 10:31:03 AM
 Can't find good help, every place I know is hiring drivers, i was getting my Mack inspected last week and offered a job driving for scale as many hours as I wanted. 🤷‍♂️
 Im cutting pretty rough wood, somes decent, i had one last week go for almost 900 bucks. Averaging almost .85-1.00 straight thru, big hearted ash, nasty maple, and the few real good logs, take it as long as you can. Walked the buyer thru that big RO job ive got, he figured close to the same on footage I did, alot.. 😆 
 They talked about a fuel shortage, price went down again, my cost is 2.7031 all weekend, the ethanol free 91 is where the moneys at and the people just dont care. 
Title: Re: Log prices
Post by: quilbilly on May 16, 2021, 10:58:57 AM
Talking about mats for building new pipelines.  

Of course that tank farm was less than 5 miles from my old home, don't miss it.  Plenty of gas there I hear, not enough truck drivers to keep up with the idiots filling washtubs with fuel.

RE truck drivers.  Shortages everywhere.  Every mill we ship to is short drivers.  I have heard of a logging outfit in Alabama with 25 trucks and trailers and down to 4 drivers.  Logging outfits constrained by trucking in danger of losing equipment.  
Trucking shortage out here is real. Tons of wood at a couple if mills right now that they just can't ship. They're actually thinking if putting guys on quota bc they're yards are full of wood, wood that's already sold but can't get shipped. Millions of feet of it 
Title: Re: Log prices
Post by: mike_belben on May 16, 2021, 11:37:33 AM
Any of you are welcome to get your CDL and be gone a week at a time for $13/hr.  


Theres not a driver shortage.  There is a shortage of carriers willing to pay drivers what it requires to make good workers abandon their families for weeks to make a worthless buck.  


I got offered an equipment operating job other day.  Leave monday, home friday. $15/hour.   Oh wow let me pack my bags.  

Im cutting brush and doing yard work for a neighbor with cancer @20 an hour and thats half price of what a clearing saw can make here. Mcdonalds is hiring at 13.  So screw trucking for under $100k.  If you havent lived it you dont know how taxing it is on a family.  You spend much of your check trying to solve the new problems going OTR creates in your life.  Then your wife has a nervous breakdown and your kids dont know you anymore.
Title: Re: Log prices
Post by: ehp on May 16, 2021, 08:38:18 PM
log truck drivers here make way over double that and home ever night 
Title: Re: Log prices
Post by: quilbilly on May 16, 2021, 08:50:35 PM
Any of you are welcome to get your CDL and be gone a week at a time for $13/hr.  


Theres not a driver shortage.  There is a shortage of carriers willing to pay drivers what it requires to make good workers abandon their families for weeks to make a worthless buck.  


I got offered an equipment operating job other day.  Leave monday, home friday. $15/hour.   Oh wow let me pack my bags.  

Im cutting brush and doing yard work for a neighbor with cancer @20 an hour and thats half price of what a clearing saw can make here. Mcdonalds is hiring at 13.  So screw trucking for under $100k.  If you havent lived it you dont know how taxing it is on a family.  You spend much of your check trying to solve the new problems going OTR creates in your life.  Then your wife has a nervous breakdown and your kids dont know you anymore
Idk what company that is but we deal with flatbeds, log trucks, and dump trucks and all of them are clearing 100k per year. Especially the flatbeds. All the contract log truck guys are driving new rigs and no dump truck works for under $100 per hr most $125 and $150 for truck and transfer. 

If you know anyone who needs a trucking job I know lots of guys willing to hire and train with family wage jobs. My cousins first job outta truck school was $60k + and full Benny's
Title: Re: Log prices
Post by: mike_belben on May 16, 2021, 09:52:09 PM
Quilbilly the bottom quote of me is actually you talking right?  I know the quote system can do its own thing on you pretty often. 


Title: Re: Log prices
Post by: quilbilly on May 16, 2021, 11:44:57 PM
Quilbilly the bottom quote of me is actually you talking right?  I know the quote system can do its own thing on you pretty often.
Ya, then I went to edit and thought... These folks are smart enough to figure it out and I'm too lazy fix my own misquote
Title: Re: Log prices
Post by: mike_belben on May 17, 2021, 07:29:02 AM
Gotcha.  


I am in a historically closed off, isolated region that did not have much paper dollars or outside influence until somewhat recently and it changes slower than the rest of the world which is what drew me to it.  The old guard grew up on peanuts and doesnt part with it.  It is a very low wage area but costs are quickly rising as northern refugees flood in with 401ks and sold home lotto tickets. 


I got a call to come help as a farmhand for a neighbor that ive been trying to make a connection with for a long time for a lot of reasons.  Pays $10/hr.  I said for that i will show up once a week and work like a slave, but its only for my education's sake.  I dont know enough about farming or cows.
Title: Re: Log prices
Post by: woodman52 on August 17, 2021, 07:19:58 PM
I am in western NY. My neighbor has about 30K ft. of hemlock she would like to sell on the stump. I told her I would try to find out what she should get for it. I am going to take a look at it as soon as our schedules allow. She has had a couple of loggers asking about it and I would like to give her an idea. Assuming it is good size and reasonable quality - what would be fair?

I have all hardwood so I don't keep track of softwoods. With things changing so fast what is the hardwood market looking like? I have been cutting and sawing for personal use so have not looked into the latest pricing. The latest numbers from the NY DEC (winter 21) seem low to me. If you have some info I would like to hear it and also where to find the latest info.
Title: Re: Log prices
Post by: mudfarmer on August 17, 2021, 07:55:28 PM
A public way of seeing what people will -actually- pay on the stump in NY is checking bids for DEC jobs in your region. They give an "overall" designation of hdwd/sftwd, their expected minimum bid and eventually the three highest bids (I'd there even were any!!) If you open the PDF it will give volume estimate, species distribution and details on the land parcel. I will try to edit this post from computer later, on phone now. Keep in mind these are folks that assumingly meet all requirements (NYLT, insurance, etc) to harvest timber on state land and this may impact bids.
Title: Re: Log prices
Post by: bulldozerjoe on August 17, 2021, 09:10:25 PM
I am in western NY. My neighbor has about 30K ft. of hemlock she would like to sell on the stump. I told her I would try to find out what she should get for it. I am going to take a look at it as soon as our schedules allow. She has had a couple of loggers asking about it and I would like to give her an idea. Assuming it is good size and reasonable quality - what would be fair?

I have all hardwood so I don't keep track of softwoods. With things changing so fast what is the hardwood market looking like? I have been cutting and sawing for personal use so have not looked into the latest pricing. The latest numbers from the NY DEC (winter 21) seem low to me. If you have some info I would like to hear it and also where to find the latest info.
Where in western ny
Title: Re: Log prices
Post by: Kodiakmac on August 18, 2021, 09:19:09 AM
Local fellow is paying $650 CAD per MBF ($515 USD) for white cedar logs. That's up from $550 CAD ($435 USD) in January 2021 and $500 CAD ($395 USD) in 2019.
Title: Re: Log prices
Post by: mudfarmer on August 18, 2021, 10:08:34 AM
Well here is the NYSDEC Timber Sale site. Timber Sales on State Forests - NYS Dept. of Environmental Conservation (https://www.dec.ny.gov/lands/69749.html) I didn't see any recent jobs (quick look) in region 8/9 that would give you helpful info but maybe in the future. Interesting to look at regions so far away from me though, one of those Cattaraugus jobs had a single 12"DBH Cucumber(magnolia) in the sale :)
Title: Re: Log prices
Post by: AndyVT on September 07, 2021, 07:43:47 PM
I am in western NY. My neighbor has about 30K ft. of hemlock she would like to sell on the stump. I told her I would try to find out what she should get for it. I am going to take a look at it as soon as our schedules allow. She has had a couple of loggers asking about it and I would like to give her an idea. Assuming it is good size and reasonable quality - what would be fair?

I have all hardwood so I don't keep track of softwoods. With things changing so fast what is the hardwood market looking like? I have been cutting and sawing for personal use so have not looked into the latest pricing. The latest numbers from the NY DEC (winter 21) seem low to me. If you have some info I would like to hear it and also where to find the latest info.
I am cutting and selling my hemlock direct to a local sawmill and they are paying up to $330/1000 delivered.
Local concentration yard is paying $240/1000 delivered.
I am guessing stumpage would  be $100 -$150/1000.