John Deere 1010D forwarder strange issue

bushmechanic · August 26, 2018, 06:32:14 AM

This is a stab in the dark to see if anyone has had this problem. We have a 1010D forwarder 2003 model year and we have a strange issue with it. In hot weather it will just stop working the boom and steering. If I shut it down wait 5 minutes it will start up again and maybe work for another five then quit again. The longer I wait the longer it will work. It appears to me that the hydraulic working pump stops pumping all together, but the transmission pump still functions as I can drive it forward and in reverse. The frame brake won't release and I can't steer when it happens. I thought it may be the park brake solenoid giving trouble so I switched it out and didn't solve the problem. I am thinking I'm going to replace the park brake cartridge next but not sure if that will fix the problem and I hate throwing parts at stuff. We have had this ongoing problem for three years now, hot equals stop( anywhere from 24 degrees celcuis and up). Strange thing is now that it cools down in the fall this issue will stop and the machine will work away perfectly. Anyway I wonder if anyone else ran into this?

mike_belben · August 26, 2018, 10:49:12 AM

Is there any sort of temp switch anywhere on the machine? It almost sounds like something is wired wrong.. Maybe a temp switch closes and positive voltage is accidentally applied to the chassis of a solenoid.. therefore difference of potential across the two legs of the coil is insufficient to magnetize.. ? Im just taking a shot in the dark here but something crazy like that seems feasible.

snowstorm · August 26, 2018, 01:10:00 PM

and i thought only i had strange problems. do you loose stand by pressure when this happens? the rottne crane stopped working. i backed the relief out ran it for a bit then reset psi. whatever was in it left. have had other strange things. that i blamed on the pump control. i havnt gotten brave enough to take it apart. on mine the pilot and stand by should be 35 bar. i got the pilot at 35 but the stand by is only 15. it all works ok except i think the main boom comes up slower than it could. it has ips boxes. its almost impossible to find that screw

mike_belben · August 26, 2018, 01:21:43 PM

Another thought on wacky issues.. Ive had internally delaminated hoses really have me scratch my head. I think its gon a take a temp gun and a volt meter to really verify what is exactly happening to verify this gripe while its occuring. Try to atleast sort whether its hydraulic problem or electric problem.

bushmechanic · August 26, 2018, 06:15:39 PM

When it happens it looses all the working hydraulics. I haven't had a chance to put some gauges on it when it happens because if I shut it down to go and get the gauges when I start it up again the bugger will work. It is just like I apply the park brake, nothing works. I don't know where it gets pilot pressure as it has no dedicated pilot pump. I guess I'll have to pour over the hydraulic diagram some more. You may be on to something with the pump control there snowstorm it may be centering and not pumping oil. I don't think mike that it's a electric issue as I changed out the solenoid along with the plugin and still did the same thing on both, and there was an led light on the one I changed it with... it never went out when I lost the hydraulics! Oh snowstorm you can remove the cover on the IPS box and adjust the output voltage. We sold our Rottne this spring and bought a 703 John Deere. I forgot to say mike that I used the I/R gun and the hydraulic temp never goes over 55 degrees celcuis. There is a temp switch but it only triggers and alarm.

mike_belben · August 26, 2018, 06:24:32 PM

Can you post a pic of the hydraulic schematic and the symbol legend? Does the book have a theory of operations description?

Im just stabbing in the dark, never stood next to a harvester.

mike_belben · August 26, 2018, 06:26:33 PM

Is this a load sensing, closed center hydraulic system? Main pump is a variable displacement swash plate that destrokes back to neutral when fluid is not being called for?

bushmechanic · August 26, 2018, 06:35:04 PM

Yes mike it's a load sensing with a spring that forces the hydraulic pump to full displacement and hydraulic pressure to center it when no flow is sensed. It's a forwarder but almost identical to the wheeled harvesters of the same year. The manual is in the woods in the machine and I don't have any service while up there, we go for a week at a time. There is a description of theory of operation but it is very limited.

snowstorm · August 26, 2018, 06:45:13 PM

as i under stand it the the stand by and pilot psi should be the same. i adjusted it at the pump. on the linde pump it was towards the rear. the front is the main relief on the pump control....that thing i am scared of....on the ips box there is a hole for a screw driver way in there somewhere

mike_belben · August 26, 2018, 09:10:06 PM

When it acts up, do the symptoms coincide with a full destroke to zero flow? Can you see the swash plate actuator externally? Is it something you could rig up an old phone to record in operation?

Riwaka · August 26, 2018, 09:35:50 PM

I have heard of similar faults in excavators - broken wires - insulation that expand in heat to cause fault, insulation cools and wires contact - run bypass wires to eliminate fault. poor fuse connections, thermal expansion of components.

Ask John Deere what pump changes they made. online catalogue shows a few variations.
John Deere Parts Catalog

Work arounds if problem is not identified, bigger oil cooler for summer and put standard cooler back for winter.

John Deere 1010D shop work! - YouTube

Firewoodjoe · August 27, 2018, 07:20:01 PM

There newer deers that my father ran would have a light I believe at 140 then shut down until it cooled. I'd check temp.

kiko · August 28, 2018, 10:16:45 PM

Bushmechanic, to start I have 0 experience with a 1010d . But with a look at the parts catalog, It appears the pilot pressure is generated from pressure reducing vavle in the solenoid manifold. I would speculate that you are loosing pilot pressure or load sense to the pump. Since all functions are not working it is possible a load sense issue is in the work pump controller. If it has lever steer , a cable controls a manual pilot valve which could rule out an electrical issue. The pump control has small spools that could be sticking as the heat gets up.

mike_belben · August 28, 2018, 10:47:10 PM

How does the fluid look and smell? Sump strainer clogged? Sabotage..? Sugar or sand in the tank?

bushmechanic · May 20, 2019, 05:41:06 AM

Well I'm pretty sure that I have found my mystery problem with that forwarder, thought I would share as it may help someone else. The machine finally stopped working all together this spring then I searched for the problem. Same as before no operation from the rear valve but the blade would work and it would move forward or reverse. I started working with the easy stuff like electrics nope not that. I then moved on to hydraulics, I found no load sense pressure (or flow) leaving the rear valve. I then made sure the pump was working, took off the supply line to the valve and started it up, nearly drowned! I took off a cap and manually pressed on the spool for the steering and viola movement. I checked the pilot pressure and nothing. I wanted to know what it was supposed to be so I went to another contractor to test his machine. Long story there, his machine wouldn't start after a half of a day of troubleshooting found an electrical plug in the cab corroded out. Anyway 400/500 psi was what I needed. I looked at the parts diagram and found a screen filter in the valve end for the pilot pressure, took it out and it was plugged solid with debris, well I have it now I thought. Cleaned it all up and was sure I got it now...wrong! Still the same, back to the parts book, ohh a small spool in there. The spool was stuck in with rubber bits, good thing they threaded it or I would of had to chuck the valve end. Got it out with a muffler bolt from a 50 Husky. The oil supply from the pump to the pilot pressure controller was blocked off with rubber. Cleaned everything up and now it works perfect. At least I know where to look for next time!

barbender · May 20, 2019, 09:03:08 AM

Sounds like a real adventure😳

mike_belben · May 23, 2019, 11:53:26 PM

Thats the kinda gripe thatll make a troubleshooter out of ya alright. Good job

mike_belben · May 24, 2019, 12:12:45 AM

Ill toss ya a wierd one. Cat 3406E, serial prefix 2WS set at 550 hp in my petercar. If i lock in the fan hub (air switch applies pressure to a fan clutch for full power fan ..used during high load, low speed hillclimbs) the ecm will sometimes go into limp mode after a few minutes. Its extremely violent to go from full throttle to zero.. Like getting rear ended. Usually itll come right back to life in a split second. If not i flip off the fan and it roars back. This is baffling me since the ecm is looking for electric signals and the fan hub is air only. Atleast i think. I dont think the ecm can see fan hub air apply but its instant.. Fan off, engine back on. Its too immediate for this to be a case of temperature readings, temp cant change that fast like a light switch.

The truck did have a coolant leak that was evaporating off before i noticed it. The lower the coolant the worse it acted up. Leak fixed and I keep it topped up.. Figured it was solved, but it happened again other day. Never happens if fan isnt on.

A part of me wonders if the coolant temp sensor resistance or voltage is going out of ecm range during fan operation and the computer says whooooa buddy until it comes back in range. But i dont know the theory on these engine controls at all. Just guessing.

Riwaka · May 24, 2019, 08:22:39 AM

There is probably a fan relay and a fan solenoid that could be partially faulty. Less likely is a problem with the ECM.

mike_belben · May 24, 2019, 08:59:02 AM

As far as i know its 100% air. Next time im in the dash and relay panel i will verify that. These trucks are notorious for corroded up relay and fuse sockets which ive worked on alot since i started there.

bushmechanic · May 26, 2019, 06:03:31 AM

Mike a 3406E I guess would put that truck mid 90's to early 2000's, I'm not sure if there would be a VCU (vehicle control unit) in that year of truck but it would be a good place to start. Those fan switches on the older trucks were pretty simple. I would look at a wiring diagram to see if the power supply to the relay is not paired up with something else, like the ECM. Some greenie's on a wire may pass enough current to work the ECM but more draw from something else will lower the current to where it affects something else in the circuit. Always remember a strand of wire will carry 12 volts but little current.