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Author Topic: Log prices  (Read 20677 times)

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Offline ehp

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Re: Log prices
« Reply #200 on: December 28, 2020, 09:29:28 AM »
most of our maple goes to the States NW and are bought by USA buyers but now the border is closed the buyers cannot cross it so they just get people to buy for them here , The logs can cross no problem . Biggest  reason is on how fast the tree grows , the faster it grows the less the veneer guys want to see it and its bad in red oak here , WF is about 3 or so hours from me but his soil is totally different so have to look your stuff over quite hard for mineral but he has far better red oak if he is cutting right down near Lake Ontario than we do , our red oak does not have great color cause of the light color sand it goes on , now if he is a hour north of the lake thats a total different ball game , kind of like yesterday , my last tree before dark was a 3 ft walnut right beside the field , good and straight , few bumps but the biggest sap ring I have ever seen m like close to 50% , the rest were like say 3 or 4 inches of sap . I'm thinking maybe the crop spray as crop are 20 feet away 

Offline mike_belben

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Re: Log prices
« Reply #201 on: December 28, 2020, 11:58:12 AM »
 believe me if your logs are top grade stuff they will just flip them and make the money you should of
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Isaiah 63:10

Offline moodnacreek

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Re: Log prices
« Reply #202 on: December 28, 2020, 01:00:45 PM »
believe me if your logs are top grade stuff they will just flip them and make the money you should of
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The log buyers I have observed ship like, kind, and quality buy the trailer load. If you can do that you can sell to their buyer.

Offline stavebuyer

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Re: Log prices
« Reply #203 on: December 28, 2020, 01:58:50 PM »
believe me if your logs are top grade stuff they will just flip them and make the money you should of
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The log buyers I have observed ship like, kind, and quality buy the trailer load. If you can do that you can sell to their buyer.
Lots of people think if they just had the right phone number they could cut out the middleman. Not all that simple. Freight is expensive. Full trailer loads on good backhaul routes where an OTR flatbed can load during a monsoon reduces both procurement costs(buyers time and expenses) and brings freight within reason.
Yes if you have good access and trailer load lots and can be relied upon to load the logs next week or maybe a month from now all you need is a phone number. If you have 1/2 of a load of veneer in a cornfield with no gravel and are moving your loader tomorrow; your logs wont be worth nearly as much.



 

Offline ehp

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Re: Log prices
« Reply #204 on: December 28, 2020, 04:35:15 PM »
I pretty much always know where the tree I'm cutting at that moment on where that log or logs are going , Right now some days I get zero or just a few veneer while other days I cut a full load of veneer so I setup a deal with the one mill that trucks my veneer back to there yard and then loads it on the trucks that are headed States side at a very low price and then I donot have to deal with loading a 53 ft trailer out a mile from solid ground in a field . I hate dealing with truck drivers that truck logs very little as most of the trucks that truck the veneer are flat bed trailers that run up and down the hwy . Mike if you do not know what you got as far as grade goes believe me the mill will buy your log at saw log price and flip it at veneer price , Its pretty much free money for them as you already paid the trucking to get it to the yard , so sell say a 4500 ft load that the mill buys at $1/ft then resells it at $3/ft every week thats making pretty easy and free money

Offline nativewolf

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Re: Log prices
« Reply #205 on: December 28, 2020, 06:06:26 PM »
So true Ed.  We spent 3 days on another older loggers site helping him cut out middlemen on a white oak sale.  He almost exactly doubled his money but had never done that sort of sale where he had real top end buyers coming to his landing.  He was very impressed by his checks.  

That said sometimes it is just a matter of finding a better buyer.  We have a bridge timber buyer that can take tie logs and double your money.  Yet hundreds of trucks a day still find their way to tie yards instead of timber yard.  Just about double the money, even after deducting a $500 shipping fee.  I don't believe you can ever ever have enough buyers in your contact list.  If the buyers really want a log they are top price and they will let you know by paying top price.  

Our veneer buyers are sort of funny at the present but then we are sending out about the same amount of veneer as the average Northwest mill.  
Liking Walnut

Offline ehp

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Re: Log prices
« Reply #206 on: December 28, 2020, 06:17:02 PM »
we are getting more buyers around here now but also more guys buying standing timber , Got a couple new guys buying timber I know nothing about but their paying very high prices on standing timber so either they got something figured out OR have no clue on what their doing , just seems strange that no one knows or ever heard of these guys but its all fair in love or war  8). We will see if they are still around by June 

Offline mike_belben

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Re: Log prices
« Reply #207 on: December 28, 2020, 06:46:35 PM »
Mike if you do not know what you got as far as grade goes believe me the mill will buy your log at saw log price and flip it at veneer price , Its pretty much free money for them as you already paid the trucking to get it to the yard , so sell say a 4500 ft load that the mill buys at $1/ft then resells it at $3/ft every week thats making pretty easy and free money

It took me a few trips to figure out what class of logs were being held down on price in order to keep a margin open to yard them up and flip a load down the line.  I can do good on ties and good on WO staves.  Never had access to any walnut or veneer and never did that well on mid grade chubby sawlogs.  



I have a negative perspective on what is on the stump in much of tennessee and think nearly all of it needs a serious TSI and 40 more years before harvest to be anything more than pulp and tie.  So i basically just decided continuing to try to log was a road to self ruin and that id have to do other things, get a lot of other bottlenecks fixed before i tried it again.
I got busy pushing out hundreds of loads of fill dirt and rock so semi trucks can come in my yard all year.  Have got my big loader pretty reliable for loading or unloading.  Have room to bring home and concentrate full loads.  Got the stump bucket sorted out so it can grab by the ends and load containers.  Got the CDL and about 70 thousand miles experience. 



 Still need to set up firewood processing and maybe stave milling from bolt length salvage trimmings off otherwise junky logs with a good block or two on the butt.  Getting on county extension forestors good side.   Just got my first little shop frame up this week.  



Another lifetime of preparation to not lose any more houses on this next round.
Isaiah 63:10

Offline Ianab

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Re: Log prices
« Reply #208 on: December 28, 2020, 06:52:44 PM »
We spent 3 days on another older loggers site helping him cut out middlemen on a white oak sale.  He almost exactly doubled his money but had never done that sort of sale where he had real top end buyers coming to his landing.  He was very impressed by his checks.  


That's the selling point that a local forest management company use.. 

They co-ordinate the logger / truckers and which logs go to what mill / port etc for the best return. They have the buyer contacts, know what each mill is wanting, and what they are paying. Logs get graded at the landing and go out when there is enough to make a truckload to that buyer. They can also run the sums related to trucking, a local mill may pay slightly less, but the trucking costs are much less. Don't pay $200 more for trucking to get $100 more for the logs. Of course they deduct a %, but if if they have increased the payments by 50%, and then take 10% for themselves, the land owner is well ahead and everyone gets paid. 
Weekend warrior, Peterson JP test pilot, Dolmar 7900 and Stihl MS310 saws and  the usual collection of power tools :)

Offline Skeans1

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Re: Log prices
« Reply #209 on: December 28, 2020, 07:46:02 PM »
believe me if your logs are top grade stuff they will just flip them and make the money you should of
:50 likes button:
The log buyers I have observed ship like, kind, and quality buy the trailer load. If you can do that you can sell to their buyer.
Lots of people think if they just had the right phone number they could cut out the middleman. Not all that simple. Freight is expensive. Full trailer loads on good backhaul routes where an OTR flatbed can load during a monsoon reduces both procurement costs(buyers time and expenses) and brings freight within reason.
Yes if you have good access and trailer load lots and can be relied upon to load the logs next week or maybe a month from now all you need is a phone number. If you have 1/2 of a load of veneer in a cornfield with no gravel and are moving your loader tomorrow; your logs wont be worth nearly as much.



 
Sounds like you guys need mule trains vs highway trucks with flat beds. Youd be amazed at where a long logger or a mule train can or will go and youd dont need near the landing space because you can turn around.

Offline stavebuyer

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Re: Log prices
« Reply #210 on: December 29, 2020, 04:12:20 AM »
believe me if your logs are top grade stuff they will just flip them and make the money you should of
:50 likes button:
The log buyers I have observed ship like, kind, and quality buy the trailer load. If you can do that you can sell to their buyer.
Lots of people think if they just had the right phone number they could cut out the middleman. Not all that simple. Freight is expensive. Full trailer loads on good backhaul routes where an OTR flatbed can load during a monsoon reduces both procurement costs(buyers time and expenses) and brings freight within reason.
Yes if you have good access and trailer load lots and can be relied upon to load the logs next week or maybe a month from now all you need is a phone number. If you have 1/2 of a load of veneer in a cornfield with no gravel and are moving your loader tomorrow; your logs wont be worth nearly as much.



 
Sounds like you guys need mule trains vs highway trucks with flat beds. Youd be amazed at where a long logger or a mule train can or will go and youd dont need near the landing space because you can turn around.
Specialized log trucks are one way high cost per mile and generally cost prohibitive for the multi-state distances veneer logs usually travel.

Offline stavebuyer

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Re: Log prices
« Reply #211 on: December 29, 2020, 04:29:57 AM »
We spent 3 days on another older loggers site helping him cut out middlemen on a white oak sale.  He almost exactly doubled his money but had never done that sort of sale where he had real top end buyers coming to his landing.  He was very impressed by his checks.  


That's the selling point that a local forest management company use..

They co-ordinate the logger / truckers and which logs go to what mill / port etc for the best return. They have the buyer contacts, know what each mill is wanting, and what they are paying. Logs get graded at the landing and go out when there is enough to make a truckload to that buyer. They can also run the sums related to trucking, a local mill may pay slightly less, but the trucking costs are much less. Don't pay $200 more for trucking to get $100 more for the logs. Of course they deduct a %, but if if they have increased the payments by 50%, and then take 10% for themselves, the land owner is well ahead and everyone gets paid.
Brokers/wholesalers/consolidators serve a useful purpose. But some always think the other piece of the pie is bigger. Successful people understand that there are limits to what they can manage themselves and everyone in the chain needs to prosper or it breaks. Nothing wrong with knowing or demanding your worth but trying to do it all in order to keep it all seldom works out in the long run.

Offline SwampDonkey

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Re: Log prices
« Reply #212 on: December 29, 2020, 05:39:17 AM »

That's the selling point that a local forest management company use..

They co-ordinate the logger / truckers and which logs go to what mill / port etc for the best return. They have the buyer contacts, know what each mill is wanting, and what they are paying. Logs get graded at the landing and go out when there is enough to make a truckload to that buyer. They can also run the sums related to trucking, a local mill may pay slightly less, but the trucking costs are much less. Don't pay $200 more for trucking to get $100 more for the logs. Of course they deduct a %, but if if they have increased the payments by 50%, and then take 10% for themselves, the land owner is well ahead and everyone gets paid.
That's pretty much what our marketing boards do. So there are very few businesses like that, and a handful that exist are still dependent on the marketing board for at least mill prices and specs which change all the time. But it is more than that to. In fact all the truckers hauling private wood go into the marketing board office to get paid on the mill scale slip. No chasing down woodlot owners for pay. All private wood sold has a levy on it to run the marketing board. Just like selling milk, only those guys have to pay two levels of government, provincial milk boards and federal. The producer, of anything, gives up a percentage to marketing, shipping, and whatever else someone can come up with. :D

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1 Thessalonians 5:21

Offline moodnacreek

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Re: Log prices
« Reply #213 on: December 29, 2020, 07:54:16 AM »
As a sawmill [a very small one] I can buy all kinds of logs I can't really use. If the logs I want are mixed in a load of the other kind I may buy the whole load or loads. This is done for 2 reasons, first to get the logs I badly need and 2nd to keep the logger coming back. Those unwanted logs have to go before they spoil and I may have to finish cutting the branches etc. off them to help sell them. Also I have scaled and metal detected them. I hope to get a little more than I paid. Last spring I couldn't resell anything but the logger got paid.  Oh and here is another thing; if the logger really thinks I under scaled or somehow cheated him , he won't come back.

Offline nativewolf

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Re: Log prices
« Reply #214 on: December 29, 2020, 08:11:10 AM »
Well in some other log price news:  YP has stopped moving up, we are at $600/mbf intl scale for prime butt logs and I expect that is where we start cutting.  
Liking Walnut

Offline Skeans1

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Re: Log prices
« Reply #215 on: December 29, 2020, 10:57:47 AM »
believe me if your logs are top grade stuff they will just flip them and make the money you should of
:50 likes button:
The log buyers I have observed ship like, kind, and quality buy the trailer load. If you can do that you can sell to their buyer.
Lots of people think if they just had the right phone number they could cut out the middleman. Not all that simple. Freight is expensive. Full trailer loads on good backhaul routes where an OTR flatbed can load during a monsoon reduces both procurement costs(buyers time and expenses) and brings freight within reason.
Yes if you have good access and trailer load lots and can be relied upon to load the logs next week or maybe a month from now all you need is a phone number. If you have 1/2 of a load of veneer in a cornfield with no gravel and are moving your loader tomorrow; your logs wont be worth nearly as much.



 
Sounds like you guys need mule trains vs highway trucks with flat beds. Youd be amazed at where a long logger or a mule train can or will go and youd dont need near the landing space because you can turn around.
Specialized log trucks are one way high cost per mile and generally cost prohibitive for the multi-state distances veneer logs usually travel.
I swap our truck over from fifth wheel to long logger in about half an hour. Whats more costly is not being able to move wood in the wet if the trailer is piggy backed you can get up into places about like a pickup can. Whats your average distance one way to the mill? Its not uncommon for us to run the trucks over 100 miles one way and come back empty.

Offline mike_belben

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Re: Log prices
« Reply #216 on: December 29, 2020, 11:16:17 AM »
The eastern seaboard is so developed with roads and freight lanes saturated with trucks and keeping the prices relatively low compared to running your own transport.  i think historically there has been no need to do the long logger setup outside of maybe specialized situations.  Our forests are half as tall as yours, so our logs are too.  A flat can run 60ft sticks on most interstates. Ive never seen a sawlog that long. 


In loadboard freight 100 miles is basically saying im home.   Under 2hours from base id just deadhead back. 
Isaiah 63:10

Offline Skeans1

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Re: Log prices
« Reply #217 on: December 29, 2020, 11:31:07 AM »
The eastern seaboard is so developed with roads and freight lanes saturated with trucks and keeping the prices relatively low compared to running your own transport.  i think historically there has been no need to do the long logger setup outside of maybe specialized situations.  Our forests are half as tall as yours, so our logs are too.  A flat can run 60ft sticks on most interstates. Ive never seen a sawlog that long.


In loadboard freight 100 miles is basically saying im home.   Under 2hours from base id just deadhead back.
A long logger can be converted to a short logger with a rack that set into the bunks. If you want to do a short setup that still can get around running a fifth wheel hitch skip the hay rack they dont track. They make a turkey rack that has a king pin it uses a log trailer and reach so the trailer will track plus get around a lot better then a flat bed trailer setup.

Offline SwampDonkey

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Re: Log prices
« Reply #218 on: December 29, 2020, 12:39:27 PM »
Within 30 miles here to our markets, including veneer. But we don't have the big wood for the big prices up here because after 20" a hardwood is going down hill in quality in these parts. A few rare gems, but very rare. Severe weather, a lot of ice storms and heavy wet snow and wind. Seen the weather ruin a whole woodlot that had TSI work done on it. Not uncommon to see. Kinda takes the wind out of your sails, after you did a great job. ::)
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1 Thessalonians 5:21

Offline nativewolf

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Re: Log prices
« Reply #219 on: December 29, 2020, 01:21:49 PM »
Our qs is about 370 miles, veneer is at least 300, bridge timbers are 174, some walnut goes to Canada 
Liking Walnut


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