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Author Topic: Log prices  (Read 20676 times)

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Offline mike_belben

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Re: Log prices
« Reply #240 on: March 22, 2021, 10:40:20 PM »
I just heard the price of 'highly valuable' craigslist front yard iron clad walnut triple.  Chaching.
Isaiah 63:10

Offline Walnut Beast

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Re: Log prices
« Reply #241 on: March 22, 2021, 11:14:59 PM »
So I was chatting with the buyer who bought 40k standing walnut from us 2 years ago.  We did well,  no complains . He sold the best log as a 32í veneer triple log $19,620. 8).  $20/bdft

I am glad he did well, we only sold 1/2 volume maybe cut some more in October.  Maybe sell some myself.  
Very nice. How many trees were there in that deal

Offline nativewolf

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Re: Log prices
« Reply #242 on: March 23, 2021, 06:10:21 AM »
We maybe cut 120 altogether in two sales.  He cut the very best tree and 4 others that were monsters plus maybe 80 others.  Some had a bit of peck, a few were very pecky.  I've got to cut another 20 this year, wish EHP or one of our other real hand cutters were heading south sooner.  They'd have them down while we were fussing with our YP and oaks.  

In the two years since then Walnut has gone up and down but $5/bdft standing was a rich rich price in that year.  We were very happy.  Today with good sawlogs hitting 5 I think we'd do even better but still we would likely have cut it ourselves.  
Liking Walnut

Offline mudfarmer

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Re: Log prices
« Reply #243 on: March 24, 2021, 08:34:40 AM »
120 people out of work in the black hills, this mill relied on 80% of their material coming from USFS and I guess that's not happening Hill City saw mill closes, eliminating 120 jobs | Local | rapidcityjournal.com

Doesn't matter if the price is low or high if you can't get material at any price ::)

Someone buy up the equipment and move it down south where that oversupply is before it ends up overseas ;D

Offline stihlsawer

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Re: Log prices
« Reply #244 on: March 24, 2021, 09:06:06 AM »
Here's a link that I use. Tennessee Prices | Timber Update 
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Offline mike_belben

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Re: Log prices
« Reply #245 on: March 24, 2021, 12:43:19 PM »
Thats a ripoff unless its stumpage pricing. I didnt see a stipulation.  For example $425/thousand on white oak "sawtimber" lumps all of it into one grade.  A WO tie log brings about $400/mbf.. Staves are $1,000 to $2,000 so theyre gonna pay tie for a stave?  

.70cents a foot on walnut?

The vagueness of the site makes it a challenge to know if theyre sharks looking for a little old lady with a back 40 or not.  I suspect the price sheet is claiming those are delivered to mill prices and youll get a cut of it.  If so, theyre ripoffs claiming not to be.  If theyre paying those prices for stumpage upfront, then its a totally different situation.  I cant tell.


Buying the entire forest at the lowest sawlog price is one common ripoff strategy.  Everything thats better than pulp will make a tie. Paying "shares" of say 50/50 to the landowner at a tie log rate for all harvested WO means that everything better than tie log isnt shared with the landowner.   Everything better than a tie will be sorted and sold for its top price but the landowner will get paid as if it were a tie.   Logger keeps the spread, so on really good logs the lamdowner might only get 10 or 20% of the true value.

"I will go 50/50 on the white oak at $425/mbf" is how that will sound.  

A better deal for the landowner is "i will go 50/50 on everything WO and i get $425/mbf for tie, 550 on common sawlogs and about $1500/mbf avg on staves, maybe better on some other stuff.  

If you ask the ripoff artist a rate on the prime A, stave and veneer he will know you arent gonna be fooled by the lump pricing. 


These are realistic prices in middle TN without much marketing.. Savy guys like EHP, native wolf and so il logger do much better in specialty marketing.
Isaiah 63:10

Offline stihlsawer

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Re: Log prices
« Reply #246 on: March 24, 2021, 01:02:29 PM »
Thats a ripoff unless its stumpage pricing. I didnt see a stipulation.  For example $425/thousand on white oak "sawtimber" lumps all of it into one grade.  A WO tie log brings about $400/mbf.. Staves are $1,000 to $2,000 so theyre gonna pay tie for a stave?  

.70cents a foot on walnut?

The vagueness of the site makes it a challenge to know if theyre sharks looking for a little old lady with a back 40 or not.  I suspect the price sheet is claiming those are delivered to mill prices and youll get a cut of it.  If so, theyre ripoffs claiming not to be.  If theyre paying those prices for stumpage upfront, then its a totally different situation.  I cant tell.


Buying the entire forest at the lowest sawlog price is one common ripoff strategy.  Everything thats better than pulp will make a tie. Paying "shares" of say 50/50 to the landowner at a tie log rate for all harvested WO means that everything better than tie log isnt shared with the landowner.   Everything better than a tie will be sorted and sold for its top price but the landowner will get paid as if it were a tie.   Logger keeps the spread, so on really good logs the lamdowner might only get 10 or 20% of the true value.

"I will go 50/50 on the white oak at $425/mbf" is how that will sound.  

A better deal for the landowner is "i will go 50/50 on everything WO and i get $425/mbf for tie and about $1500/mbf avg on staves, maybe better on some other stuff.  


These are realistic prices in middle TN without much marketing.. Savy guys like EHP, native wolf and so il logger do much better in specialty marketing.
It's my understanding that it's stumpage and not delivered to the mill. I could be wrong though. 
Trever Jones
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Offline stihlsawer

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Re: Log prices
« Reply #247 on: March 24, 2021, 01:04:05 PM »
I wished the State still published a quarterly like they did a few years ago.
Trever Jones
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Offline mike_belben

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Re: Log prices
« Reply #248 on: March 24, 2021, 01:07:37 PM »
it would be very prudent to verify.  I dont mean to slander anyone and i have no knowledge of them.  Such practices give loggers a very bad reputation throughout the state.  Terrible pay and terrible practices.  The freedom we enjoy has a consequence, anyone can jump in.
Isaiah 63:10

Offline Tom King

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Re: Log prices
« Reply #249 on: March 24, 2021, 03:11:18 PM »
According to that, looks like I hit the right time, a few years ago, getting a Pine stand thinned, and got 15.25 for pulpwood.

Offline stavebuyer

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Re: Log prices
« Reply #250 on: March 24, 2021, 07:58:30 PM »
I read it as standing prices. Still quite low.

Offline WDH

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Re: Log prices
« Reply #251 on: March 24, 2021, 09:53:58 PM »
If you click the Georgia link, those prices are stumpage prices. 
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Offline Hogdaddy

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Re: Log prices
« Reply #252 on: March 24, 2021, 10:26:23 PM »
So, I cut/sold 11,500 last week, 6,000 feet was red/black oak, 3200 was hickory, 1200 poplar(the poplar was just avg at best), rest was just a couple hard maple and 1 white oak. red oak avg .56, all logs avg .47. thats everything, tree run, 15 stump cut, pallet, ties, grade, no veneer of course. All sold to one sawmill. doyle scale.  I'm in south central ky, about half way between louisville and nashville. what do you guys think about those prices?  Sounds a lot cheaper than what y'all been talking about, but....
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Offline mike_belben

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Re: Log prices
« Reply #253 on: March 24, 2021, 11:46:28 PM »
Thats a touch better probably than i would do if i brought everything to any one mill on the cumberland plateau.  A combination of poor juvenile timber and too many loggers willing to slave away for nothing.   Theres no way i could break $2/bf on anything localish at all. 
Isaiah 63:10

Offline nativewolf

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Re: Log prices
« Reply #254 on: March 25, 2021, 07:06:25 AM »
So, I cut/sold 11,500 last week, 6,000 feet was red/black oak, 3200 was hickory, 1200 poplar(the poplar was just avg at best), rest was just a couple hard maple and 1 white oak. red oak avg .56, all logs avg .47. thats everything, tree run, 15 stump cut, pallet, ties, grade, no veneer of course. All sold to one sawmill. doyle scale.  I'm in south central ky, about half way between louisville and nashville. what do you guys think about those prices?  Sounds a lot cheaper than what y'all been talking about, but....
Well first off congrats on sticking it out, it's been a tough few years hasn't it.  Overall I'd say probably not terrible considering it was sent to 1 mill.
Without a doubt the best way to increase income is to be able store enough logs of a particular grade so that you can have a truckload of a particular product go to the highest bidder for that product.  Still lets talk about what might be done.  If I understand you cut and bucked 15 trees, totaling 11,500 bdft doyle?  There were some big trees.  Size matters so if you have big timber that's good.


Right now oak tie logs are going for $0.55 doyle here in VA.  So basically everything just for tie logs would have almost gotten to the same value (leaving the YP out of it for now).   Hickory would sell at a discount.  Decent hickory logs 3 side clear stuff are selling for $0.60-80 /bdft to exporters.  Hickory veneer, 4sc with some good heartwood, is going for up to $1000/mbf.  Veneer in our case has quite a bit of trucking costs so our veneer pricing could be better if we were closer to Ohio.  


If you have large diameter long rough logs call around and see if you can find a mill cutting bridge timbers, they pay a pretty good premium for a long tie log quality log.  In lynchburg VA the oak and hickory would have sold for $700/MBF as a 30' stick if it had a 15" top and was straight.  That is international so converting it back to doyle would add at least 10% on top so.  Exporters are paying $1600/mbf for the RO and Black oak veneer and they are buying black oak.  Best sawlogs are going for $0.70/bdft here at local sawmill.  


Poplar is very strong right now.  Our best poplar mill raised their lowest log price to $0.325 international scale (basically the top junky log).  We strip the veneer out and send the rest to them and are averaging $0.53.  Now that's a huge grain of salt right there, international scale is very helpful, 3 local mils buy on that and it makes a difference.  This mill specializes in poplar, if they need it they buy it.  I do know that in TN poplar is very strong as well.  If your mill is not paying $700 or thereabouts for the best quality poplar than they are not paying a competitive price.  That's all the insight I can give you into the poplar price.  


All in all I'd say that if I were in your shoes I'd spend a few days on the phone.  I'd try to find some mill cutting bridge timbers.  They'd buy up your oak and hickory in longer lengths so there is less bucking (have to be able to move around a 30' piece of oak though).  I'd see if you could save up enough money so you can go a month holding onto the best logs and get a log buyer to come in to look at export logs.  Sometimes it's hard to save enough money to let you hold onto 80 good logs that would interest a log buyer.  
Liking Walnut

Offline Hogdaddy

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Re: Log prices
« Reply #255 on: March 25, 2021, 09:53:32 AM »
So, I cut/sold 11,500 last week, 6,000 feet was red/black oak, 3200 was hickory, 1200 poplar(the poplar was just avg at best), rest was just a couple hard maple and 1 white oak. red oak avg .56, all logs avg .47. thats everything, tree run, 15 stump cut, pallet, ties, grade, no veneer of course. All sold to one sawmill. doyle scale.  I'm in south central ky, about half way between louisville and nashville. what do you guys think about those prices?  Sounds a lot cheaper than what y'all been talking about, but....
Well first off congrats on sticking it out, it's been a tough few years hasn't it.  Overall I'd say probably not terrible considering it was sent to 1 mill.
Without a doubt the best way to increase income is to be able store enough logs of a particular grade so that you can have a truckload of a particular product go to the highest bidder for that product.  Still lets talk about what might be done.  If I understand you cut and bucked 15 trees, totaling 11,500 bdft doyle?  There were some big trees.  Size matters so if you have big timber that's good.


Right now oak tie logs are going for $0.55 doyle here in VA.  So basically everything just for tie logs would have almost gotten to the same value (leaving the YP out of it for now).   Hickory would sell at a discount.  Decent hickory logs 3 side clear stuff are selling for $0.60-80 /bdft to exporters.  Hickory veneer, 4sc with some good heartwood, is going for up to $1000/mbf.  Veneer in our case has quite a bit of trucking costs so our veneer pricing could be better if we were closer to Ohio.  


If you have large diameter long rough logs call around and see if you can find a mill cutting bridge timbers, they pay a pretty good premium for a long tie log quality log.  In lynchburg VA the oak and hickory would have sold for $700/MBF as a 30' stick if it had a 15" top and was straight.  That is international so converting it back to doyle would add at least 10% on top so.  Exporters are paying $1600/mbf for the RO and Black oak veneer and they are buying black oak.  Best sawlogs are going for $0.70/bdft here at local sawmill.  


Poplar is very strong right now.  Our best poplar mill raised their lowest log price to $0.325 international scale (basically the top junky log).  We strip the veneer out and send the rest to them and are averaging $0.53.  Now that's a huge grain of salt right there, international scale is very helpful, 3 local mils buy on that and it makes a difference.  This mill specializes in poplar, if they need it they buy it.  I do know that in TN poplar is very strong as well.  If your mill is not paying $700 or thereabouts for the best quality poplar than they are not paying a competitive price.  That's all the insight I can give you into the poplar price.  


All in all I'd say that if I were in your shoes I'd spend a few days on the phone.  I'd try to find some mill cutting bridge timbers.  They'd buy up your oak and hickory in longer lengths so there is less bucking (have to be able to move around a 30' piece of oak though).  I'd see if you could save up enough money so you can go a month holding onto the best logs and get a log buyer to come in to look at export logs.  Sometimes it's hard to save enough money to let you hold onto 80 good logs that would interest a log buyer.  
Oh no, the timber is no where that big, probably 45 trees or so to make the 11,500 bft... Thanks for the input! 

As far as holding logs, that's no problem. I just don't know any export buyers in my area, guess I need to do some scouting around for more buyers. 

But, as far as quality,, the logs were just average.. the red oak was the best, but they start get bumpy up the tree anywhere from 16' on up
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Offline mike_belben

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Re: Log prices
« Reply #256 on: March 25, 2021, 01:16:47 PM »
I also thought it was 15 trees.. Whatd you mean by 15 stump cut then?


 sounds like you got normal price for normal timber, if it were where i live.  I guess we have comparable situations.
Isaiah 63:10

Offline nativewolf

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Re: Log prices
« Reply #257 on: March 25, 2021, 09:35:15 PM »
News today on RO:  

Doyle:  $1000 prime sawlogs, $800+ on good clear logs, $800 for large 3SC.  Lower quality log prices are way up as well.  

Just like with our YP pricing seeing this move up on lower grade logs is really key.  
Liking Walnut

Offline Tacotodd

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Re: Log prices
« Reply #258 on: March 25, 2021, 09:49:17 PM »
Itís about time.
Trying harder everyday.

Offline nativewolf

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Re: Log prices
« Reply #259 on: March 25, 2021, 10:03:17 PM »
Itís about time.
Absolutely!  That's from a very very large industry player so if they are paying that than it should show up across the East Coast
Liking Walnut


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