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Author Topic: Log Prices?  (Read 5628 times)

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Offline jerryatric

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Log Prices?
« on: May 01, 2011, 12:10:36 AM »
Alright I'm gonna open the can of worms. Who has the best prices in the North East Pa area. I'm looking for new buyers. Before I go with the big names like Wagner Or DeerPark and get screwed on Fuel Driving there, who's paying good? Logger bonuses? Grade bonuses? spit it out here. It'll keep the mills competeive.

Offline thecfarm

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Re: Log Prices?
« Reply #1 on: May 01, 2011, 07:41:18 AM »
I have no idea if you've been listening to other loggers in your area. If anything like a few around here,walk away from the BS. They talk about how much they make by hauling the logs to another mill,because the mill you're selling too does not give a bonus or their mill pays more per BF. Have to remember some of those other mills are harder on scale too and if you are traveling another 60 miles one way,who is cutting in the woods,if you are working alone? Your fuel and time is worth alot.The grass is always greener on the other side of the fence. By the way,how much are you cutting in a week? All one species? Mills like it fresh,not sitting around for 2 months.
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Offline bill m

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Re: Log Prices?
« Reply #2 on: May 01, 2011, 08:02:43 AM »
Alright I'm gonna open the can of worms. Who has the best prices in the North East Pa area. I'm looking for new buyers. Before I go with the big names like Wagner Or DeerPark and get screwed on Fuel Driving there, who's paying good? Logger bonuses? Grade bonuses? spit it out here. It'll keep the mills competeive.
Sorry, but the mills set the prices, we don't.
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Offline jerryatric

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Re: Log Prices?
« Reply #3 on: May 01, 2011, 10:43:21 PM »
I cut and skid on average a load a day.(7-1:30) weather permiting(35-3800 ft) I'm just one man. I'm new to this Forum not Logging. It's all I've done with my life. Not "one" mill sets the Price though. My Current buyer is a broker. Sit's behind a Desk In Effn Calif. while I work here in pa. A log truck show's up I get scaled on the landing and a check and slip are handed to me. His prices are better than the local mills but that's my Question. He's making a profit or else what's the point. I want to know the "Mills" he's selling to.

Offline Ron Wenrich

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Re: Log Prices?
« Reply #4 on: May 02, 2011, 05:50:09 AM »
I've never heard of a logger selling through a broker.  Loggers don't make money logging, they make it by finding their own markets, separating the logs, and selling to those markets.  Those markets change as the years go on.  It only reflects the markets of the mills you are selling to.

Oak markets have been on the skids.  Even the veneer markets have tightened up on their scale.  We sell our veneer to many different markets and we load container trailers.  Most guys won't do that.  I suspect your broker does have a concentration yard and he sells the logs out in trailerload lots by grade.  That's where he's making his money.

We have a concentration yard where we take the logs.  We sort by grade, but we also do primary breakdown of some of the products.  We saw our middle and low grade logs.  We produce firewood on a year round basis.  We sell pulpwood to a paper company and we sell some soft pulpwood to a poultry shavings plant.   We also truck logs if we have to. 

I'm not about to reveal the markets we sell to.  We did all the work developing the contacts and addressing the markets.  It would be like asking you for a list of all the timber prospects you have in your area.  You're not about to share that with anyone.
Never under estimate the power of stupid people in large groups.

Offline bill m

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Re: Log Prices?
« Reply #5 on: May 02, 2011, 11:01:27 AM »
I cut and skid on average a load a day.(7-1:30) weather permiting(35-3800 ft) I'm just one man. I'm new to this Forum not Logging. It's all I've done with my life. Not "one" mill sets the Price though. My Current buyer is a broker. Sit's behind a Desk In Effn Calif. while I work here in pa. A log truck show's up I get scaled on the landing and a check and slip are handed to me. His prices are better than the local mills but that's my Question. He's making a profit or else what's the point. I want to know the "Mills" he's selling to.
My point was that you are not setting the price you receive for your logs, the people buying them do.
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Offline PAFaller

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Re: Log Prices?
« Reply #6 on: May 02, 2011, 10:30:14 PM »
Bid your logs out and see what you get. Not that uncommon of a practice here in the central part of the state. Pretty much all comes out in the wash though. Mills with great prices have a short stick, honest scale little less money. A few mills pay really good the first couple loads as a teaser and then get it back the next 3 or four, or offer good prices but then take a huge chunk out for trucking. Some mills price sheets don't look that hot but they are lenient on grade. Cutting trees is the easy part I'm afraid, its the marketing your material part that takes time. I have good markets but I put a lot of miles on the pickup, a lot of time on the phone, and have bought my share of coffee for foresters and log buyers to get them.  On top of all that, Im pretty sure there are anti-trust laws that make it a big no-no to publicly discuss dollars and cents pricing like you seem to be looking for.
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Offline Kansas

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Re: Log Prices?
« Reply #7 on: May 03, 2011, 01:30:41 AM »
You might not be able to set your price, but you can sure help yourself. Start talking to the mills and log buyers. Find out what they want. See if you can find smaller specialty mills looking for something a little out of the ordinary, long logs, etc. Some mills like to cut a specific species and maybe a specific grade of that species. Look for smaller mills that have trouble getting logs from the big loggers. They might be willing to pay a bit more. If you have veneer logs from time to time, you will need a veneer buyer. You will need a buyer for low grade logs. If you don't have a truck, you will need to find a trucker for some of those mills. Marketing takes time. Its worth it, but it doesn't just happen.

Offline timerover51

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Re: Log Prices?
« Reply #8 on: May 05, 2011, 04:09:56 AM »
Here are a couple of sites to go to for information about log prices.

http://www.srs.fs.usda.gov/econ/data/prices/index_b.htm

http://www.michigan.gov/dnr/0%2C1607%2C7-153-10368_22594-81536--%2C00.html

http://extension.psu.edu/timber-market-report

The first is from the US Dept. of Agriculture, giving logging reports from a large number of states.  The second is a pretty detailed report from Michigan, and the last covers timber reports from Pennsylvania.

Offline Black_Bear

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Re: Log Prices?
« Reply #9 on: May 05, 2011, 07:56:17 AM »
On top of all that, Im pretty sure there are anti-trust laws that make it a big no-no to publicly discuss dollars and cents pricing like you seem to be looking for.

Unless there is some sort of collusion between you and the mill, then 2 or more loggers discussing which mill has the best price for logs will not get you in trouble. However, 2 or more mills, or other entities, conspiring to keep prices artificially low or in some way colluding to fix prices will be frowned upon.

Offline PAFaller

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Re: Log Prices?
« Reply #10 on: May 05, 2011, 09:28:58 PM »
I guess that is what it boiled down too, I just remember when I was a member of a fledgling logger organization here we had to sign paperwork saying we would not discuss pricing. The problem is no two loggers get the same pricing anyway, regardless of the mill. Price sheets are like guidelines, but I never really pay much attention to them. I know my buyers well enough that they work with me on pricing, and I try to get them what they want. Can you imagine if every logger on the forum chimed in with what they were averaging for red oak delivered to the mill! Every logger here would take the highest price they saw here and be chewing out their log buyer tomorrow for being a crook and a thief and a cheapskate! Its all about knowing the mill you sell too and what they want. On top of that even independent guys have loyalty to only a few mills. If I sell 90% of the wood I cut to one mill, and make logs they way they want them, I will get  a better price than someone they have never worked with before. I doubt any large mill owner here would argue that. Loggers want to sell logs for more money, mills want to buy them for less, its the way its always been, and the way it always will be
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Offline Ed_K

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Re: Log Prices?
« Reply #11 on: May 04, 2020, 07:10:30 AM »
 I get the bid price of all species from the U of mass at Amherst, and first quarter 2020 the prices have gone up. It's not a lot $25. to $50. Some a little more, s maple $225. to 310. cherry $100. to $275. So maybe things are looking up some.
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Offline moodnacreek

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Re: Log Prices?
« Reply #12 on: May 04, 2020, 07:12:05 PM »
I started sawing the big r. o. I saved for Wagner. Even had some hard maple to sweeten the load, thats all on sticks now. I hate doing maple. Far as I know they are only picking up from their strong suppliers. When business goes sour you cut off your best loggers last.

Offline nativewolf

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Re: Log Prices?
« Reply #13 on: May 04, 2020, 08:13:09 PM »

I enjoy chatting about log prices but my approach may not be helpful.  First, cut what the market wants.  Second cut good-great timber and nothing else.  If you can concentrate loads of good logs you should.  On no account use 1 buyer for everything.  You need to have several veneer and specialty buyers.  For general sawlogs the exporters are paying the best from what I have seen.  We average just under $2/ bdft for white oak but that requires 4 buyers.  You need to spend as much time on the phone or meeting buyers as you do on bucking.  I am not a big fan of the loyalty thing as that only helps you sell good logs for ok prices when the market is bad.  I like very good prices for good logs😂.  If market is slow I suggest not cutting.  

What are you cutting?  
Liking Walnut

Offline BargeMonkey

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Re: Log Prices?
« Reply #14 on: May 04, 2020, 10:36:04 PM »
I work with a broker / buyer, for what's involved and the money tied up the 10-15% isnt worth it. 

 Theres 4 places to sell wood here, 3 of the 4 prices are always just about the same, not going to win. 
 
 That's the latest "Wagner" sheet for here, might want to be sitting down first. 
 



 
 

Offline nativewolf

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Re: Log Prices?
« Reply #15 on: May 05, 2020, 05:22:17 AM »
See that Wagner price list, only 2 species over $500/mbf for #1.  That's kind of my breakeven point.  We have oak fence board markets here that are $500/mbf international for anything oak, straight, and 12" small end at 16.5'.  Straight through pricing from that same mill on WO is $1/bdft to 12".  Too far from you to be useful.  RO is still not back to snuff but if you have nice RO it seems they can still pay $ for veneer, I've heard Rolling Ridge and other veneer brokers paying $1500+ for PA/NY RO.  I've heard up to $1750..but that is doyle.  Rolling Ridge is typical of the sort of buyer you need for mid range veneer, lots of others- they mostly stuff containers to send to the ports.  

We haven't cut a RO veneer in a year so I have not sold any just what I hear.

Scales really matter.  That 12" oak fence board is:

 95 BDFT FOR Intl, 80 for scribner, and 64 on doyle.  

You get slaughtered on doyle for small logs.  

Look around for specialty buyers of things like long oak for bridge timbers (paying $0.60-80/bdft intl here in va).  For 0 side clear logs that is a pretty good price and is actually about the same as the Wagner price for prime sawlogs.  

Wagner's price on veneer WO is a low it seems to me.  I can have 3 buyers into eric's backyard with checkbooks if he'd cut some nice WO, they'd pay him 50% more and truck.  I guess this means he does not have much WO and if that is the case it might not be good.

Look at that Wagner price list and it will tell you a few things.  First, Cherry is gone..no veneer price?? on cherry?  Don't cut any.

Hickory pricing is crazy... veneer is much much higher than sawlogs.  This means there is a large export order, or domestic maybe, order for some hickory veneer and the order was not filled this winter.  I have export hickory, lots of it but can't get there for another month and then it is hot and hickory stains; I guess I could treat it on the landing but that's a pain.  But I've made note of that price and will come back to that in October.  If I cut that hickory I'll have to do something with the rest of the log and I have 4 months to find a good market.  

The Ash pricing for Wagner seems good to me, but he has been cutting great ash, mine is not that nice.  

The pricing for things like Yellow Poplar, Black Oak, Soft Maple...crazy.   I can't go to work for those prices and the exporters are paying so much more.  Soft maple is actually doing well right now, not sure why that is so low.  



Liking Walnut

Offline Ed_K

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Re: Log Prices?
« Reply #16 on: May 05, 2020, 06:26:45 AM »
 Just got an e-mail from our biggest mill-buyer this morning. They are opening the yard back up next Monday. The price list is only $50. to $100 more than Wagner's price list, still not good enough for the logger's around western Ma, Southern Vt-N.H. I sent a tri-x and a 1/2 of H-maple in Feb to a smaller mill that was still taking logs and got $1800. for the log run.
Ed K

Offline stavebuyer

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Re: Log Prices?
« Reply #17 on: May 05, 2020, 06:31:19 AM »
If you look at lumber pricing in the HMR then the Wagner prices don't leave much room for sawing. Grass is always greener. Looks like a great opportunity for a savvy log broker  ::)

Offline ehp

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Re: Log Prices?
« Reply #18 on: May 05, 2020, 11:18:28 AM »
my log prices have gone up , only thing not great is hard maple sciler veneer but its still selling , RO is doing pretty good as is white oak

Offline BargeMonkey

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Re: Log Prices?
« Reply #19 on: May 05, 2020, 12:20:25 PM »
 I know of a couple WO behind the school, it just doesnt grow here, have to go 15 miles north, all red oak here, crap rock oak just off the mountain. 

 Guys are either shutting down or getting out, just talked to my pulpman and he said he knows of a couple guys who have already thrown the towel in. 

 At 500 average it's not bad, really where you have to be to make anything on private stumpage. I still see guys cutting wood, cry about the price and they are cutting their own throat, little pulpwood and firewood for me, I will just park everything. 


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