Log Prices?

nativewolf · February 03, 2021, 01:05:33 PM

Quote from: ehp on February 03, 2021, 12:09:31 PM
Walnut bush sold here last week at $4/ft standing on ontario log rule scale and only about 1000 feet of veneer and not big trees . That is just plan crazy

Wow...just wow, 2 years ago we sold 60k total stump age and averaged 4-5 but it was mostly big veneer but had worm/peck issues. A lot of volume per tree so lots of saw logs. 4 for non veneer ... wow

mike_belben · February 03, 2021, 01:16:03 PM

well thats in the high $2's if you correct for the inflation since your sale wyatt.

we all better get on that economic treadmill and ..

nativewolf · February 03, 2021, 02:19:08 PM

:D

Corley5 · February 03, 2021, 02:21:17 PM

I've been told that sugar maple veneer is approaching an all time high...

ehp · February 03, 2021, 03:20:13 PM

Here $4 to $5 a foot is pretty normal for hard maple . I have not heard any $8 a ft like before but maybe

ehp · February 03, 2021, 03:22:31 PM

And I only gotten that price when cutting in one area . Where I am right now not a chance . But walnut is better color here and red oak and white oak

ehp · February 04, 2021, 07:22:14 AM

what is good big tulip selling for ? I cannot find a veneer market here yet for some but I'm still looking . It's about a month yet before I start cutting it

nativewolf · February 04, 2021, 07:35:41 AM

How white is sapwood ring is the question. The veneer market is deep for YP and it is in Ohio, Michigan and Indiana, really should not be hard for you to get that. It is maybe the largest veneer market actually (by volume). It is at $1.50/bdft but could be less with trucking, we can get $1.20 picked up but they are going on a 300 mile ride. Doyle just like our other veneers.

Good prime sawlogs in 16' lengths are bringing 625 international, min 16" top diameter.

stavebuyer · February 04, 2021, 08:01:58 AM

Boom or bust cycle. Logs like anything else are worth "exactly what someone else is willing to pay". Stupid prices(high or low) will affect availability. The very second the perception that the quantity of available logs does not appear to be in balance you will see panic buying or selling thanks to the JIT inventory discipline. Factor in some mother nature and season with dash of political trade games and you have todays boom which will bust in a few short months dues to "unpredictable" demand shifts that most second graders could predict.

Of course now that somebody somewhere paid $1.50 for oak stumpage; you are now a crook if you are not paying that even for stumpage you bought a year ago and from this point forward even if you can't give an oak log away next year. Good times for all.

nativewolf · February 04, 2021, 08:07:48 AM

Yeah the movement on stumpage has been a bit bizarre, moved up all last fall but now..wow. Glad we almost only do long term gigs.

ehp · February 04, 2021, 08:25:05 AM

I honestly feel walnut is getting near its end on the huge money , I know enough 3 jobs in the last 2 months that the timber buyer came up quite short compared to what they paid for the standing trees . The forester is marking the tulip now so I cannot say what I'm going to get but most of the trees are in the 40 to 48 inch range and 40 plus feet before the first mark on trunk

PoginyHill · February 04, 2021, 08:44:23 AM

Quote from: ehp on February 04, 2021, 07:22:14 AM
what is good big tulip selling for ? I cannot find a veneer market here yet for some but I'm still looking . It's about a month yet before I start cutting it

I didn't know tulip grew that far north. Is it good quality? What's the heartwood size average compared to overall diameter? Much in the way to color variation - like dark purple streaks or pinkish on the growth rings?

nativewolf · February 04, 2021, 08:53:33 AM

Nice trees Ed. Many people don't realize just how magnificent they can be, a trip to Joyce Kilmer Memorial forest is an awakening. If you are curious google up some pics of that forest, just inspiring. They can live a very very long time, maybe the longest of the broadleaf trees.

Sounds like 1-2 trees per truck sort of stuff. We only have a few like this on the job, they get so big they are hard to handle actually.

Trackerbuddy · February 04, 2021, 09:01:10 AM

Quote from: nativewolf on February 04, 2021, 07:35:41 AM
How white is sapwood ring is the question. The veneer market is deep for YP and it is in Ohio, Michigan and Indiana, really should not be hard for you to get that. It is maybe the largest veneer market actually (by volume). It is at $1.50/bdft but could be less with trucking, we can get $1.20 picked up but they are going on a 300 mile ride. Doyle just like our other veneers.

Good prime sawlogs in 16' lengths are bringing 625 international, min 16" top diameter.

Veneer yellow poplar is used to make Microllam and Parallam by Weyerhaeuser in West Virginia. They process 3,500 logs a day. I'm sure that it effects the market in the entire region
Here's an article with a video describing the process.
https://www.architectmagazine.com/technology/products/how-its-made-laminated-veneer-lumber-and-parallel-strand-lumber_o

PoginyHill · February 04, 2021, 09:03:39 AM

Hardwood veneer mills have limited capacity for large diameter logs. It would take a big lathe to cut a 48" diameter block. Bigger lathes are in the west, but generally for softwood (construction plywood veneer). Hardwood lathes normally max out around 36" diameter.

mike_belben · February 04, 2021, 09:12:59 AM

What stavebuyer said.

Anytime china is a major player in a market, boom bust is inevitable. They do it on purpose so watch yourself.

nativewolf · February 04, 2021, 09:25:59 AM

White oak boom is domestic Mike. None of ours is shipped except low grade veneer.

mike_belben · February 04, 2021, 11:56:46 AM

In a one click global trading world i dont think theres very much of anything thats truly limited to local effects anymore at all. Everything is so intertwined and fast changing.

The price of a part on the other side of the world affects what i will pay for one across town today. Markets no longer have isolation, secrecy or a barrier wall for arbitrageurs (sp?)

Southside · February 04, 2021, 12:21:08 PM

Soybeans grown in Dinwiddie and sold to Smithfield 45 minutes away are priced based on how the crop did in Brazil, 6 months earlier. Unless you are selling to the absolute end consumer it's all connected.

ehp · February 04, 2021, 12:44:09 PM

china and other countries over in that area are buying lots around here

mike_belben · February 04, 2021, 02:08:32 PM

If export log buying plummets -regardless of why- the rates paid by domestic-only log buyers will plummet too. No one pays more than they have to in order to maintain their resource inputs. Thus foreign actions dramatically impact domestic markets. Prior to "free trade" this wasnt so acute.

logbyr · February 04, 2021, 05:27:10 PM

The wo, wal lumber frenzy in the east this fall was started by a Chinese interest. Everyone else got on board to play catch up. Wo and walnut lumber is now taking out the low end of the wo and wal veneer markets. What a whiplash from last summer. I basically gave up on upper midwest walnut 2 years ago. Now PA wal and wo is just as crazy. Stave buyers all of a sudden not in drivers seat. Hang on. WV lost big estsblished log exporter early in fall. PA had a big one announce closure this week. NW hdwd going forward as they shed 270 million in debt to bankruptcy this year.

nativewolf · February 04, 2021, 05:46:57 PM

NW Hardwoods sells a lot of export veneer to other buyers.

mike_belben · February 04, 2021, 08:33:01 PM

Someone shoot me if i ever rack up a quarter billion in debt. Talk about going off the rails.

ehp · February 06, 2021, 03:41:23 PM

I gained $500/1000 more on my white oak better grade sawlogs the last couple weeks , I'm no where near NW prices but its better than it was , those logs all go for a boat ride