Four sided planer moulder

YellowHammer · June 16, 2022, 07:31:53 PM

Yes, unfortunately, probably 80% all of what we outsource for planing originates with us. And it is a 100% pain. I have an artificial hip, a bad knee that needs to be replaced, I'm old as the hills and worn out like old bicycle tire.

It's true we also get a shipments during the week of assorted kiln dried wood, (this week we had deliveries of 4/4 red grandis, wide sort (over 12" wide FAS) red oak, S3S 4/4 basswood planed and sanded to 13/16 and, unfortunately, :'( a a thousand bdft of rough sawn poplar. All but the unit of poplar had been surfaced by the companies who sold them to us, and we gladly pay them for that. So after saw milling all day today, stacking shelves, edging wood, trimming, cutting, etc in the 98 degree heat, and sweating like a dog, tomorrow morning we will have to fire up the Big Gulp planer and knock out a few hundred bdft of the poplar before the customers start showing up.

So we outsource as much planing as possible, generally, a trailer load of our own rough sawn wood, give or take, like the one shown in the photo, from what our kilns puke out, and have been doing so week after week, for maybe 8 or 9 years. I carry a load every Friday and pick up the loads from the week before, like clockwork. We rely on the company's Pinheiro and employees to do our heavy planing, and we use our equipment to fill in the gaps, like the unit of poplar that showed up today. So for some folks, planing a few thousand bdft a week may not seem like a lot, but considering he have to slip in in between the real work we have to do, we can't muck around, we have to get it done, and done fast. That's why we bought Big Gulp.

Unfortunately, the company who does our planing has waved the white flag to us and asked us to hold off for a little while, so we haven't taken them anything for a couple weeks and yes, now we are planing all of it, which is unsustainable considering all the other stuff we have to do.

So I'm certainly looking for other places to outsource our planing but no luck yet. So far the places that have responded have about a 7 hp single sided somthing or other brand planer and that is not enough. They may do it for a week or two, but it will kill them, and I need it for the long haul.

There are very few places like what Customsawyer has, and the equipment to support it.

longtime lurker · June 18, 2022, 10:33:19 PM

I was under the impression that Pinheiro had closed production down but that parts and service availability was still there.

I did a major overhaul on my Klein about 5 years ago, they've been out of production for 30 plus years and I won't say a few parts were easy but I got them eventually: some engineering shop in Germany has the blueprints for fabricating them. Pinheiro are even more common so I'm sure someone will take up a similar opportunity if it arises.

Only new builds of similar capacity and design I know of are made by REX
https://www.rex-maschinen.de/en/115/timbermaster/
Better have a big cheque book... if Weinig are the BMW of the moulder word a REX is the fully optioned up Mercedes limo with bulletproof glass and a minibar in reach of the spa bath.

customsawyer · June 19, 2022, 05:45:50 AM

One of those would be nice. I'm willing to bet they are out of my budget.

teakwood · June 19, 2022, 10:27:28 AM

Quote from: longtime lurker on June 18, 2022, 10:33:19 PMBetter have a big cheque book... if Weinig are the BMW of the moulder word a REX is the fully optioned up Mercedes limo with bulletproof glass and a minibar in reach of the spa bath.

Really? i thought weinig is the mercedes of planer/moulder machines

teakwood · June 19, 2022, 10:41:44 AM

Quote from: YellowHammer on June 16, 2022, 07:31:53 PM
Yes, unfortunately, probably 80% all of what we outsource for planing originates with us. And it is a 100% pain. I have an artificial hip, a bad knee that needs to be replaced, I'm old as the hills and worn out like old bicycle tire.

It's true we also get a shipments during the week of assorted kiln dried wood, (this week we had deliveries of 4/4 red grandis, wide sort (over 12" wide FAS) red oak, S3S 4/4 basswood planed and sanded to 13/16 and, unfortunately, :'( a a thousand bdft of rough sawn poplar. All but the unit of poplar had been surfaced by the companies who sold them to us, and we gladly pay them for that. So after saw milling all day today, stacking shelves, edging wood, trimming, cutting, etc in the 98 degree heat, and sweating like a dog, tomorrow morning we will have to fire up the Big Gulp planer and knock out a few hundred bdft of the poplar before the customers start showing up.

So we outsource as much planing as possible, generally, a trailer load of our own rough sawn wood, give or take, like the one shown in the photo, from what our kilns puke out, and have been doing so week after week, for maybe 8 or 9 years. I carry a load every Friday and pick up the loads from the week before, like clockwork. We rely on the company's Pinheiro and employees to do our heavy planing, and we use our equipment to fill in the gaps, like the unit of poplar that showed up today. So for some folks, planing a few thousand bdft a week may not seem like a lot, but considering he have to slip in in between the real work we have to do, we can't muck around, we have to get it done, and done fast. That's why we bought Big Gulp.

Unfortunately, the company who does our planing has waved the white flag to us and asked us to hold off for a little while, so we haven't taken them anything for a couple weeks and yes, now we are planing all of it, which is unsustainable considering all the other stuff we have to do.

So I'm certainly looking for other places to outsource our planing but no luck yet. So far the places that have responded have about a 7 hp single sided somthing or other brand planer and that is not enough. They may do it for a week or two, but it will kill them, and I need it for the long haul.

There are very few places like what Customsawyer has, and the equipment to support it.

I feel your pain there, i'm just 40 but the long work hours and with everything i have going on, sometimes it's overwhelming. i do like it though and wouldn't want anything else. i'm investing in better and faster machinery so the workload is getting lesser, because you can not find good employees here.
Robert, don't you have any kids which can be abused in the business and then later can take over?

YellowHammer · June 19, 2022, 12:49:08 PM

I'm fresh out of kids, they are all married off, or about to be so. If anything, working at the mill convinced them to get "real" jobs. :D :D There is some talk about who wants the farm, but I think the sawmill business would be up for sale before the dirt over me has settled.

I have about 14 years before any grandkids can help, and I'll be done by then.

customsawyer · June 19, 2022, 01:51:28 PM

Not finding good employees is a struggle about everywhere I think. There is a reason everything is getting so automated. Including self check out at grocery stores.

Walnut Beast · July 16, 2022, 09:24:30 PM

It doesn't stop with the four sided planer moulder. Keep in mind dust extraction. That's going to be expensive also

teakwood · July 17, 2022, 10:10:41 AM

Electric installation was expensive for me also, about 6k for a new service line, panels, vfd's, and all the other gismos you need. i'm at an additional 4k in tooling and i just bought 4 aluminum spiral heads and T and G cutters

Walnut Beast · July 17, 2022, 02:54:31 PM

The anodized red looks cool!

Walnut Beast · July 17, 2022, 03:03:11 PM

All the bad talk about knives vs spiral inserts when it comes to moldings what is used ?

teakwood · July 18, 2022, 07:24:49 AM

I have no idea what is used for mouldings, have almost 2 hours behind a moulder. did one batch of teak boards thru the moulder and the normal HSS straight knifes get rounded over within 40 boards and started smoking and burning.
the spiral heads work perfect in my jointer and planer so i went with spiral for the moulder, the T y G cuttters are carbide tiped cutters, fixed, not the insert type with exchangeable knifes, those are really expensive.

Don P · July 18, 2022, 08:33:38 AM

I think you would be looking at Tersa heads. Back in the dark ages I would grind Hs steel for short custom runs and order carbide heads for repeat runs but I could leave my mittens on and count the number of times I worked in teak.

Walnut Beast · July 18, 2022, 11:40:47 AM

Sounds like the improvement you have done is hands down a major improvement for sure!

Larry · July 18, 2022, 10:31:17 PM

Quote from: Walnut Beast on July 17, 2022, 03:03:11 PM
All the bad talk about knives vs spiral inserts when it comes to moldings what is used ?

HSS for one off and prototypes. Brazed carbide for long runs. Sharp HSS will give the best cut but not for long. Look closely and you can see the carbide in the picture. This knife was running in a Weinig in a production shop that went out of business. I bought a lot of the knives and run them in a head on my shaper.

customsawyer · July 29, 2022, 08:41:57 AM

I have some carbide knives for my Pinhero. They work great until you need to sharpen them. My regular guy has to send them out to be sharpened.

Walnut Beast · July 29, 2022, 02:40:11 PM

Anybody have one or seen one in action. Martin T 29 tilting arbor spindle moulder

T29

Tilting arbor spindle moulder

beenthere · July 29, 2022, 07:57:32 PM

I saw that photo on Facebook. Think it was Michael Weinig AG or Otto Martin machinery.

Is this one you are looking at buying to run your walnut through?

Larry · July 29, 2022, 09:55:41 PM

That Martin probably costs more than my house!

The tilting arbor adds a whole new dimension to the machine. I've ran my buddies older Martin and it was a pleasure. I've also ran a newer Felder that is close to that Martin, again a pleasure.

I think their are a bunch of good shapers being made today. SCM, Felder, Martin, Griggio (who also makes some Martin machines) and others. I'm sure tule peak knows them better than me.

Lots of great used machines on the market. Watch for bad bearings as they are precision and super expensive. They can be upgraded with Aigner fences and accessories to rival the newest.

I run a old SCMI with a huge top and 9 horsepower underneath. Other than not having a tilting arbor I love it.

Walnut Beast · July 29, 2022, 11:02:29 PM

Beenthere and Larry. The photo was from the company site. I'll be sticking with my Woodmaster 4000 four sided moulder/ planer. I'm not that big time 😂. They really look impressive. When I was talking with Berry at Woodmaster that designed the 4000 he said a few guys that have gotten the 4000 also had Martin ones.

teakwood · July 30, 2022, 07:58:03 AM

Martin is the Mercedes of woodworking machines (for cabinet makers) German quality at is best, be prepared to open your wallet deep!

Walnut Beast · July 30, 2022, 08:09:41 PM

If anybody is thinking of getting a Woodmaster 4000 better get on the list. They are about eight months out when I talked to them the other day

Don P · July 30, 2022, 08:28:19 PM

I saw an older SCMI with a universal 5th head go for small money right before the pandemic, don't know what used is available now. I believe a person could modify the mounts on that rear head.