Leaving money on the table?

[nopoint]

Leaving money on the table.
I'll try to keep this as short as possible. Looking for some advice first-hand knowledge. I have a day job and a bunch of hobbies. One of which is running my lt40. I get into a variety of other things involving construction, rental property. I like to think that all my hobbies make money. I guess the appropriate term for that now is gig or is it side hustle? Anyway I've had the sawmill for probably about 8 years. Originally purchased to saw some lumber that I needed for a barn restoration job. I saw whenever I have time. Pedal rough sawn lumber on Craigslist Facebook etc. Sometimes I sell it fresh off the saw. Sometimes I air dry the lumber. I feel that the number of people capable or willing to deal with rough sawn lumber is decreasing. Makes me wonder if I should get into drying and secondary processing. It is doubtful that I will be able to invest more time so I would be sawing less. I saw because I enjoy it but also because I make money. It's a slippery slope. Went from having a few thousand feet of lumber on hand to complete projects to having stacks and stacks.... I try to have what I think I will need in the long term. Personally if I need something and I don't have it dry I have several local sources. If I buy / build a kiln then I will need controlled storage space for lumber once it's dry. If I get to that point then I should probably buy a molder and other secondary processing equipment. I am one of those weirdos that would rather spend money on equipment than a fishing boat. Where does one draw the line? Imagine I could put together the Virginia tech solar kiln for pretty cheap. Buildings are expensive. Moulders and big planers are expensive....require large electric services.. Anyone been through this? Taking the next step. Wished you would have done it years ago? Or never at all? I don't have time to do this full time. So that is not really a goal. I'm not afraid of spending a bit of money but it's got to pay its own way eventually... 

[Ianab]

I think the issue you will come across is that you end up with a lot of expensive equipment that's under utilised. Maybe a kiln I can see being sensible as you don't have to spend much time "working" it. But other machinery you have to actually work, and when you are doing that, you can't be sawing, so the mill is sitting idle. As you say you don't have more time to saw, so you won't have more time to run the other processes. 


I can certainly see the point of "value added", but will it work for a side hustle? For example you might be able to double the value of your wood, but can only process 1/2 as much per week. Are you any better off? Or are you better to find some folks that want their own side hustle running planer / moulder setups, that are willing to buy your kiln dried wood in bulk packs, and handle the retail hassles that follow. A reliable supply of dry rough sawed lumber might be what's holding them back. 


One of our IT clients are a "full cycle" sawmill / lumber yard. So logs come in, prefab house framing kits go out. So when you go on site all the different areas are working, seldom is any machine sitting idle for very long. But they also have about 50 staff over 3 sites, and a retail building supply store selling everything a builder might need. But then it becomes a serious business. not a side hustle. 

[nopoint]

Those are all good points. Even the mill is a bit overkill for the amount of time I actually run it. Luckily I was able to get it used with high hours so there isn't so much money tied up just sitting there. I don't do a good job of tracking hours but it's been quite a while since an oil change has been required. 

[Stephen1]

I bet a lot of us have been down this road. 
Time! How much time do you have? We just finished my year end for my 4 year old sawmill/kiln business. Guess what? I made the same money as the year before. The sawmill revenue was down as there are more sawmills out there, but my kiln is up because those sawmills need to dry the wood. My blade sharpening is up because those sawmills need to sharpen the blades. My sales are the same, could go up but I need to advertise, but I am one man show and so I need to run adds, but I need to do that. 
 I am a one man show and there is only so much time in a day.  
Every time you do something to the log/wood you increase the value. Should you do it all at once? A solar kiln is a great 1st step. Learn to kiln dry. Now you have value added. 
Next you can process the wood, molder, planer, and again you value add.
Are you going to quite your day job? Are you going to keep this as a side gig?
Time! 
The sawing might be a hobby or pleasurable but I bet you will find so is fishing and golfing or just taking a walk, go on a vacation. wood working. 
MM has it down to perfection, he saws wood on his portable sawmill, why ? That's all the time he allows in his life to that pleasure! He has a nice balance in his life, sawing, travelling enjoying some of the other things that life has to offer. 
You will spend a lot of money buying equipment that will be under-utilized that really will not make you anymore money. 
You will spend a lot of Time doing it though. 
Time! We only have so much of it in this life.
We always remember the 1st time but we do not know when the last time will be!

[K-Guy]

I would look at what you already have for equipment and ask yourself " How can I make more with this?"

[YellowHammer]

Many of us have been through this.  Yes, selling kiln dried wood will bring money, and so will selling green wood.  Most commercial woodworkers and businesses will not touch "air dried" due to bug possibilities and since it's not down to furniture grade moisture levels.  If you want to move it faster, sell it green off the mill at a lower price and move it.  Air dried is kind of in a gray zone between green and kiln dried.  Personally, I buy furniture grade wood and pay the exact same price for air dried vs green.   

[stanmillnc]

I'm in a similar situation. Not sure this qualifies as good advice, but I can share what I've learned since turning my sawmilling hobby into a business (still a side-hustle):

• It is highly unlikely you'll get rich running a sawmill operation, especially part-time in the backyard. You'll also spend only a small fraction of your time running the sawmill; you'll be consumed with other support activities.
• Quitting the job that actually pays your living expenses to run a sawmilling operation is a huge risk and you need to think carefully about how the loss of that income and benefits will be made up. 
• Over the past couple years backyard sawmillers have popped up everywhere - you need to differentiate yourself in order to compete. As noted on this forum many times, there is a big difference between a skilled Sawyer and just another dude with a sawmill posting on FaceBook.
• Equipment and infrastructure needed to support supplying high value wood is expensive. You also need a lot of space and building(s) for wood and equipment storage.
• Kiln drying and planing / flattening services are much more profitable than sawmilling, and providing custom finished wood products seems to be even more profitable. The higher up the value chain you go, the higher the margins.
• The overwhelming majority of retail customers want dry, flat wood that is ready to work. Very few in my area want rough sawn, green wood. 
• Productive, hard-working, skilled employees are extremely difficult to find. It's hard to even find part-time or occasional help in my area that is willing to do manual labor outside in the elements.
• Educating customers, dealing with 'tire-kickers,' responding to passive "Is it available?" "Send pictures and prices" type questions will consume a lot of your valuable time.
• Time is precious and irreplaceable. It can't be bought and once it's gone, it's gone. Make the most of your time. Try to focus on whatever skill you have that brings the most value and outsource menial tasks, or jobs that others can do better or cheaper.

My wife recently reminded me that I could have quit my day job and have plenty of time to dedicate to family and other hobbies if I simply invested the substantial $ I've got tied up in my sawmill operation into the booming real estate market where we live. She's probably right....but anyway, I'm addicted to sawdust and will continue 'living the wood-life.' I've just tempered my expectations over time.

[blackhawk]

All good advise so far.  I just started sawmilling in 2022.  I'm in the process of building a kiln right now with the Nyle L53.  Building a stick framed kiln from scratch is a lot of work, especially by yourself.  I've had a Woodmaster molder/planer for over 20 years.  I use it as a planer 98% of the time.  The only customer that I have ever made molding for is the local college.  Their carpentry shop will buy some from me about once a year when they are remodeling a building or office on campus and usually trying to match existing molding.  No one else in my area wants custom molding.  All the builders and homeowners just buy off the shelf paint grade molding.  I've not seen a new house built in my area with stain grade moldings for 15 years.  

That was a long winded story to say that I would feel out the market for custom moldings before buying a massive dedicated machine for that purpose. 

[nopoint]

Time: So much truth to the comments on time. There is only so much, perhaps very little you never know. Used to work everyday. Then I got married stopped working all day every day. Had kids and now get less done but try to spend the time with them instead. Perhaps someday when they are old enough they can get involved.

Profit: I have no misconceptions that sawing lumber will make me rich. Guess that's just not a goal. Like the accomplishment of a nice big stack of lumber all stickered up. Kind of nice when someone hands you a pile of dollars but either way still have enough money to buy food, fuel etc. Day job pays okay, has insurance etc. think the biggest "profit" could come from the potential that my kids could learn to work and hopefully enjoy it. Some recent forum posts got me thinking about that. Many other things have been more profitable for me. Some years nailing on shingles made more money than the day job. Buying lumber from the Amish and reselling it more profitable than sawing my own. Equipment rental, in theory rental housing, jacking up barns, it all pays off if your willing to work.

Marketing: Probably should up my marketing game. One great suggestion was better utilization of the tools at hand. I know about marketing, sometimes even teach students about it just don't really like doing it... Why buy expensive machinery when I could just do a better job of selling what I already do. 

Competition: I have been doing this long enough to know that it's not easy and many of the recent sawmill buyers probably won't stick it out. Sawing looks pretty easy, turning and moving monster logs that sucks with equipment, even worse without. Sawing 2" oak seems like a good idea till you start grabbing the 12" wide planks off the saw. Most won't last....... My interest started probably as a dim memory of my dad and I going to what I now know was a swing blade sawmill buying slabs and him building me a playhouse. He knew people with sawmills and we would load logs on hay wagons and haul them there and later go back for lumber. When I got older I started doing the same thing.... All down hill from there... We have some Amish mills here and I don't try and compete with them. I'm friends, I buy lumber, get advice, rent them equipment occasionally and they sharpen my bands. Two operations are pretty serious, one is in the process of switching his main saw from an lt70 to a wide band. Pretty big project, they are 200 yards of concrete in as of last night.  Several kilns and large planner, molder building. Very impressive, especially with no electricity or hydraulics. I don't compete! Although I'm a bit better at marketing online than they are.

Guidance: I sure appreciate all that I learn from this group. I don't necessarily post a lot but read a ton. So much wisdom and so relatable in so many ways. The pictures of broken stuff, hung up trees, nails bolts etc in logs, losing a whole pile of freshly stacked lumber off slippery forks, rolling a log off the wrong side of the saw, sawing the saw, driving over things that you shouldn't, customers....., boards are always on the bottom of the pile, frozen equipment, shoveling sawdust, and the list goes on.... Then there is the good stuff: ugly logs that yield awesome lumber, customers that show up on time, days when nothing breaks, when your neighbor gives you a bunch of nice logs to get them out of his way, when you actually have the right lumber for project or customer, when the saw breaks but you have the part on hand! Let's not forget getting up early drinking a slow cup of coffee as while doing PM on the saw as the rest of the world wakes up. Thanks for all the guidance and thanks to those mobile sawyers out there posting the really neat settings they get to occasionally operate in!