My 20 HP Honda

Fla._Deadheader · November 13, 2006, 03:30:32 PM

Is sick. It runs occasionally. It puffs out the oil fill hole on the valve cover, when you remove the screw cap, while it's running. It does NOT smoke out the exhaust. I cleaned all filters and checked the spark. It took quite a bit of messing to get it to run this morning. Then, you had to mess with the choke to keep it running.

Figured it was water in the gas. Maybe a tad, but, not enough to hurt. As I messed with it a little more, It ran well enough to saw about 9--20' cuts. Then, it started running lean ?? and would POP one time. Then run OK for ½ a cut. Then you had to pull the choke out to get it up to speed. Now, it won't run worth a DanG. It uses a LOT of gas, but, it doesn't go into the crankcase, and doesn't have any external leaks. I even pulled the fuel pump apart to check for a hole in the disphragm. Nada.

Now what do y'all suggest , short of a new engine ?? :

:-\ :-\ :-\

JimBuis · November 13, 2006, 04:03:18 PM

Sounds like a valve problem to me, but I must admit that I don't know that engine from experience.

IMHO,
Jim

pasbuild · November 13, 2006, 04:07:58 PM

My Honda 20 was a lemon from day one >:( >:( >:( >:(

trim4u2nv · November 13, 2006, 04:17:41 PM

Check the fuel tank internal filter if it has one could be full of crud, Clean the main jet, bypass low oil sensor by disconnecting the yellow/low/oil/wire opposite the carburetor if the oil level is correct the sensor may be corroded. Also the diaphram fuel pump could be borderline so try gravity feeding fuel through a piece of glass funnel or tube to watch fuel flow. Cleanliness is next to godliness with honda engine fuel systems. Also make sure the engine isn't overfilled with oil by draining and refilling to the exact oem specs. There is also a drain screw on the side of many honda carburetors if you suspect your fuel bowl is full of water.

Fla._Deadheader · November 13, 2006, 04:29:00 PM

Trim, did all you suggested except clean main jet and disconnect oil sensor.
This has been running great since I brought it here last January.p

Probably sawn about 50-60 mbdft.

These guys set the gas container right on the dirt. I keep telling them to put them on wood or stones. :

:

Couldn't find enough water to matter ???

Captain · November 13, 2006, 04:35:16 PM

DEFINATELY have a look at the main jet....

JimBuis · November 13, 2006, 04:40:27 PM

"It puffs out the oil fill hole on the valve cover."

This doesn't happen due to a carburetion problem. There may be fuel problems, but also you have another problem then. Bad rings, leaking valves.......

IMHO,
Jim

ely · November 13, 2006, 04:43:42 PM

also check the fuel line connection where goes into the inline filter. my 20 hp honda started acting up, and i finally found that the clamp that held the line onto the filter was too big to work properly. it had an air leak at that point. after i had recut the hose it was too small to go back onto the filter. dry the fuel from the hose and heat the plastic hose with a lighter ot match then push it on the filter again, it will form fit to the filter as it cools.
ps do not forget to place the correct size clamp back on the hose before those steps :

Fla._Deadheader · November 13, 2006, 04:48:00 PM

That's why it's with a mechanic. I don't like much blow-by. Might be a burned piston :

:

Although, it runs good and smooth, when it does run :

:

Maybe a water wet plug on one side, BUT, where's all the gas going ??? It doesn't smoke, AT ALL, and the crankcase is fine with oil level exactly right :

Needs the choke ON to run at all, before I quit messin with it. :

:

Good thing is, :

, 6 minutes to take it off the mill and stuff it into the Jip. ;D

Rubber fuel line that fits fine. Has 2 fuel filters and I cleaned them both blowing backwards. Air passed easily. ???????????????????????????? ideas ????????????????????

Burlkraft · November 13, 2006, 06:13:27 PM

Well...I'm not a Honda guy...But havin' ta choke it all the time leads me to believe that there is a air leak somewhere..you know..air fuel mixture.... running too lean with choke off. Maybe an intake leak or sumpthin like that. The other possibility is the main jet not deliverin' fuel...I'd be more inclined for that to be the problem all of a sudden like that. Did ya do a compression check ??? ??? ??? Did ya think that maybe it's time for that 28 HP Kohler...fuel injected... ;D ;D ;D ;D

Buy 2 and put one on the bandmill too... ;) ;) ;)

pineywoods · November 13, 2006, 06:53:15 PM

Have you been using regular unleaded gas??? Sounds like a burned piston, result of low octane fuel under heavy load. Pull the plugs and run a compression test.

farmerdoug · November 13, 2006, 06:56:59 PM

It could be the air filter is plugged. I fine that when I need to run the engine with the choke on part way the air filter is in need of replacing. It will definitly use more gas also.

Farmerdoug

Tim L · November 13, 2006, 07:13:53 PM

on my 24hp honda I got some bad gas , causing the fuel shutoff wired to the low oil sending unit to stick . Its in the bowl of the carb (like a needle valve) and is wired to shut off fuel at low oil . In my case it got stuck almost closed causing little fuel flow. I must admit to using bad language as part of the cure ! follow the wire up from the sending unit to carb bowl. Theres your huckleberry !

Fla._Deadheader · November 13, 2006, 07:28:25 PM

AhhHAAAAA. TimL might have something. Tom messaged me earlier about the fuel shutoff solenoid. Gotta go see the mechanic manana. 8)

I cleaned the air filter, and that's when I first got it to start and run. ;D

Oil did look a little too fresh. It was needing a change, but, the sawyer might have let it get too low. No smoke, but, it's had a workout since I brought it here.

duffdav · November 13, 2006, 10:33:25 PM

>>AhhHAAAAA. TimL might have something. Tom messaged me earlier about the fuel shutoff solenoid.

That's my suspicion too. I had a somewhat similar problem on the Honda on my Norwood. Be sawing merrily along then just die like you ran out of gas...but mine would always start right back up. Might run 5 minutes more before dying again or maybe the rest of the day with no problems.

I checked the normal suspects...fuel filter, pump, lines etc. then took the carb apart and saw it had a cutoff solenoid. I wasn't aware it was connected to the low oil switch as Tim L has said. I assumed it was to prevent dieseling at switch shut-off. My problem wasn't with the solenoid itself but with the power going to it. I hooked a test light into the wire which would go out whenever the engine died. I figured it to be problem with the switch so I hot wired straight to the battery for a fix.

Ran it for weeks like that but naturally a lot of times forgot to disconnect at the end day resulting in a dead battery. It apparently fixed itself for it has been nearly a year now with no problem. Though I've never been low on oil maybe an oil and filter change brought my pressure back and fixed it without me even knowing.

Coon · November 14, 2006, 09:19:47 AM

I think these guys are onto something. Definately sounds like the problem however, those Honda's are pretty bad for carboning up in the head and intake if you run bad gas in em. We couldn't figure it out for about six months and were about to tear one down completely when there was a topic here on the forum about carboning up. I read the post over a couple of times and decided we had better try the little tricks that were talked about in the thread. We got the engine up to running temps with difficulty and just simply fogged water into the intake of the carb while running it at operating RPM's. The engine CLANKED and CLATTERED for a couple of minutes and all the while Puffed smoke and carboned chunks out the exhaust. No more probs with that engine since that I know of. About a week ago I saw it running just fine. That was in the spring when we did this and WOW it really shocked me as well as the owner of the engine. He was to the point where he didn't care whether it completely blew up or not and was going to go buy another engine.. Needless to say he is now running high grade gas and oils in all of his engines.

Brad.

Fla._Deadheader · November 14, 2006, 06:25:37 PM

Don't think I can AFFORD high test gas. Regular Tiger Pee is over $4.00/ gal. here.

>:(

Burlkraft · November 14, 2006, 06:28:50 PM

Doesn't Fred buy your gas ??? ???

Fla._Deadheader · November 14, 2006, 06:30:50 PM

No, I don't work for Fred. I work for me.

leweee · November 14, 2006, 11:01:13 PM

Ah the joys of self-employment. :D Any word on the Honda's condition?

Fla._Deadheader · November 15, 2006, 06:34:09 AM

No news is good news ??? ;D ;D Nothing yet. While we are waiting, we are going to start construction on the Truck garage-wood storage building.

Polly · November 23, 2006, 10:14:09 AM

8) 8) 8) 8) i had the same problem with my onan poor starting had run with choke out and increase idle speed to keep running i took carb. off and compleatly cleaned now engine runs fine i guess i will have to find another way to get rid of my sawdust :D :D :D :D

Fla._Deadheader · November 24, 2006, 06:16:11 PM

The hired help sets the gas containers on raw ground, no wood, or NADA. Then, they pour every last bit of gas out of the container into the tank. Carb was FULL of water, crap, crud and anything else, OH WAIT, he DID drop his chewing gum in the tank, also. :

:

Anyone wanna hire a GOOD sawyer :

:

>:( >:(

trim4u2nv · November 24, 2006, 07:56:36 PM

I had lots of fuel problems with my 20 hp honda on my norwood. Got to the point where I used a fine mesh screen from my 13hp pressure washer (fits in spout) to keep the crap out of my gas. I also put heet drier in every 5 gallon fillup. Put stabil in after any multi day shutdown and drained fuel bowl with screw. These engines dont like to run in cold weather either without a carb heater. The only other machine I had so many fuel problems was the old tecumseh diagphram carburetors. An ant whisker would clog these up. Just remember clean, clean, clean fuel. Maybe even a water separator.