Happy weekend to all. I'm a 62 year old boomer that's been cutting wood for the last half of my life on my 10 acre woodlot for recreation and thinning. I only recently started learning how to really learn how to hand file a chain. Up until now I would send them out for grinding. That gets expensive. As I've been learning what works and what doesn't work with hand filing, I on occasion see a post from someone declaring they can get a chain sharper than a factory new chain. My question is how can someone improve on the factory edge using a standard round file and using the standard 30 degree geometry the chain came with? I understand square filing is a whole different animal. Unless you change the geometry I don't see how you can improve sharpness. Sharp is sharp. Now if you steepen the cutting angle then I can see how,this,would lend to a sharper cutting edge but wouldn't that be a detriment to how long it stays sharp? I currently run Stihl RS, RSK, and Husky C85 as well as Oregon LPX on my small saw. I don't see how things can get much better than the RS and the C85 is. These things cut pretty darned well and I find on a good day I might be able to keep them close,to what the factory spits out.
It is like buying a knife, it is sharp when you buy it, but it can be sharper. (A new knife isn't sharp enough for my kitchen, but it would be plenty sharp to scare my mother).
A new chain can be filed sharper than it is, and angles and depth gauges can be optimized for the job.
A saw should not be pressed to cut, the weight of the saw should be enough.
The Husky C85 is Xcut chain and that cuts (IMHO) better than any other chain I have tried out of the box. Most chains get dulled after factory sharpening and banging around in a box for shipping. I usually hit them one time around when new. I also used the LPX until I switched over to Xcut and for a long time I square filed the LPX. The first time around took a while to change the profile, but it cut sweet after that. It also cut good when round filed, but I liked the square profile better, it cut easier and a little faster and made nice chips.
The key is to be very consistent on each tooth and tune for the wood you cut if you can. I can't tune for the wood I cut because I bounce from hardwood species to species on most days. Then do softwoods when I am at the mill. What matters to me are the chips coming off the chain, that tells the story. No dust, nice defined chips that pile up.
Factory sharpening isn't all it's cracked up to be. Touching up your chain often is a key factor instead of waiting until is gets 'dull'.
"Touching up". I have figured that part out for sure. Stay ahead of the chain and it will stay sharp. When you speak of consistency I have noticed body positioning is everything when it comes to consistency, at least for me. I can't file for crap in the bush because I'm still new to,it, but I can do OK on the bench. It allows me to be more consistent and gives me better lighting. I have recently tried the Stihl 2-1 sharpener and actually like it. I've been using it on 3/8 RSK.
One difference is that the factory chain is ground, rather than filed, which gives a slightly different profile. There is also no guarantee how long it's been since the grinder at the factory has had the wheel profile touched up.
For some time, Oregon was touting their "sharp out of the box" grind for the LPX/LGX chains. They wanted people to get that "Wow!" feeling when they put on a new chain. In my opinion, they got that feeling by putting WAY too much hook on the cutter tooth. It did not match their description of what the chain should look like in their sharpening instructions (It was similar to what you would get if you were filing with a bare round file and were keeping the file a bit too low in relation to the tooth). This does make a chain really slice into the wood to start with, but that narrow hook just doesn't hold up for long.
Normally, that hook would also make for an aggressive chain, but they seem to have made up for that by not taking the depth gauges (a.k.a. "rakers") down as far as their spec says.
You are on the right track when you say you touch of to "stay ahead of the chain". A chainsaw safety instructor I know is fond of saying: "You don't sharpen a chain BECAUSE it got dull, you sharpen it to KEEP it from GETTING dull."
I use one of these 12V sharpeners and keep it in the box on my ATV everywhere I go saw with power from the ATV. I can quickly sharpen the chain on the saw in the field as needed and I am pleased with the results. Sthil makes a similar sharpener as do TSC and others but I have better results from Oregon. Sthil sharpeners require use of their threaded stones and the switch is on the cord requiring 2 hand starting and stopping while the Oregon and others have the switch on the side of the tool for simple thumb flip start/stop and they use any stones. There is a built in angle guide on the head. I take the head/guide off and sharpen my weedeater blade and the blades on my tenon cutter too. They don't break the bank and I highly recommend them.
https://www.amazon.com/Oregon-575214-Suresharp-Handheld-Consumer/dp/B073GSGNLV?th=1
Thanks for the replies. I always value insight from people that know more than me. I'm far from an expert with chains, but I'm learning. I'm retired military and I finally have unlimited time to dub around in my patch of forest.
There is a lot of knowledge here for sure! Thanks for your service.
I've got the hand filing down good though not the square filing or any other fancy stuff. It will help you if you can put your saw in a vice and not have to hold the saw still as well as file. That way you can concentrate on keeping the file travelling straight and true. The other thing is don't use files that have lost their bite. Toss it and get another, makes a big difference
I used to always sharpen my own, then I started sending my chains out to sharpened, I hit metal all the time with them as I am sawing urban trees. I only get 2-3 sharpening per chain. The last time the chains came back with a note saying the rakers had to be filed down.... Hello! What did I pay you to do. Sharpen my chains.
I had a home owner sharpen my saw one day this summer with the Still 2-1. Perfect or darn close to it. I went out and bought one. I now sharpen my own chains, it files the rakers as it sharpens. It cleans up the damaged teeth just as good as the grinder and just put a new file in when it's not doing a good job. It is by far the best sharpening devise I have come across. Simple.
Learning to file is like learning to play an instrument. Takes some time to learn. And each and every one of the many filing gizmos out there is a little different and must be figured out to get a good edge. But.....and I expect some blowback here, they can all dull your understanding of how a chain needs to be sharpened. Any of these gadgets that use a file are essentially just different ways of holding a file. And they help the process by automatically ensuring that an angle, side plate, top plate, gullet or whatever is something you don't have to pay attention to. Fine, and many of them give good results. But learning how to use just a plain file, and understanding what YOU like in an edge, for the chain you run, in the wood you cut, will generally yield the best results. Once you do that, most of those sharpening aids start gathering dust. And not sawdust.
I agree. All these filing aids works slightly differently and I've never had luck with any of them until the 2-1. With that said I do believe a person should have a sound foundation on how to do this by freehand first, and maintain proficiency. There is a lot to it to include body position. I've discovered what works for me is placing the chain itself in a vice. It firmly locks it in place providing a solid mount to file from. I'm getting the best result this way.
If You hand file, by eye, that is what you keep doing. Grinding well harden the tooth edge and make it harder to file and dull the file. You want a soft cutter and a new file and like the man said don't wait until it needs it. When you push the file it bites and cuts before you lose your concentration and patience. I have filed since 1/2 " pitch and 1/4" files and a human cannot compete with a jig but a jig does not fit my file pocket.
I hand file, and just use the file, but I always have a handle on the file. I see a lot of guys filing without a handle. A handle makes it many times easier, and one that fits your hand helps too. The Oregon wooden file handles fit my hands well with thumbs that bend back. I buy them by the dozen.
I use one hand on the file, and usually the other hand to hold the bar on the tailgate of the pickup. The whole file gets used. I use the little smooth end to give me an extra split second to see that I'm putting it in the correct tooth, and give a whole file length smooth stroke.
When I teach someone else to do it, I put a sheet of white paper behind the bar, and show them the filings that go on the paper. The first thing I want them to do is see the filings they are making.
If you are right handed, file the right side teeth first. That leaves the left teeth dull for when you hit a knuckle when your hand slips. You have to put some force against the file, and control of this doesn't come at first.
I learned how to file a chain before I ever tried sharpening a carpentry handsaw, and having mastered a chain first, it made the many times more difficult process of sharpening a handsaw come pretty quickly.
I see people taking short strokes, both with chains and handsaws. I tell them I buy full length files, so want to use the whole file length.
I whet the chain at almost every tank fill. That always gives me a sharp chain, which makes it easier on my arms both sharpening with so few strokes, and easier working with the saw.
Almost any day I go to the local store for lunch, if there is someone there with a chainsaw, and these guys use them for a living, they want me to sharpen their saw. I guess I should start charging, but I kind of enjoy doing it.
"That leaves the left teeth dull for when you hit a knuckle when your hand slips."
I always wear a leather glove on the handle end of the file. I learned that lesson long ago when it slipped and sank a tooth into my finger.
The 2 in 1
Best Chainsaw Sharpener Ever - FINALLY!!! - YouTube (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SzjmpNTVH6U&t=831s)
I'm not much for gizmo's except the old standby older style Oregon guide .The only way you'll ever get good at filing is to do it .It's not rocket science .There are little tricks you can use but most don't and many methods of how to do it .Just pick one out you are comfortable with and do it .
I make my own file handles aside from the ones I've found. Cut a branch, and progressively drill the center. Small bit drilled as far as the bit will go, medium bit ⅔ in, large bit ⅓ in. It's comfortable enough, and costs nothing.
Wow that guy can bore cut pine. I bought one of those filers when they where Pferd. Tried it once, came with no instructions. It is hanging on the wall someplace. They did make a handy bar file jig, I like that.
Quote from: schmeg on January 08, 2023, 07:32:50 PMStay ahead of the chain and it will stay sharp.
Well, for a so-called beginner you have something figured out that 97 out of a 100 others have never figured out!!
When people ask me how to sharpen dull chains and I tell them I don't know??
Because I sharpen my chains before they are dull by most people's standards. Staying ahead of the chain is a great way to say it.
Cutting a lot of downed stuff try as you might you will kiss the dirt .It's often I can't cut more than a tank full of gas before I have to file .Which again on a 20 inch loop is only about 5 minutes .Keep it sharp, less work for the saw and you as a matter of fact .
Quote from: Al_Smith on January 12, 2023, 10:32:06 PMKeep it sharp, less work for the saw and you as a matter of fact .
Worth repeating. That's the big advantage of the hand or guide filing systems. They work in the field, in 5 mins while you take a break and refuel. (you and the saw)
Much respect to the guys that file freehand, it's an art. I use a guide, because it's easier and it works, The best thing about the new 2 in 1 system is that it works, even if you are an uncoordinated newbie. Follow the diagram and you will have 95% sharp chain in minutes. Chainsaw Yoda can probably do better free hand, but I don't have years of Jedi training.
I've always gotten along with a file in a cheapo file guide for years. But I like the 3 file guide mentioned, one tool and all set to go. Stump vice is mighty handy, just ordered one a couple days ago. :) Getting older so a pair of chaps isn't a bad idea, never wore any before. But age makes you wiser. :D Got them coming to.
Do whatever works for you. ;)
If I used a guide I would have to relearn how to sharpen a saw. ???
My Father could do a great job. But he came from the era of one man cross cut saws. He was born in 1923. Either you learned how to keep the saw sharp or you worked harder.
My father could never understand how I could not sharpen a saw. He showed me enough times but could not drive it into my head.
One day I took a log and I was determined to get it!!
By the time I got done, was not much left of the log or the chain!!!
But I got it!!!!
I can even put a saw down on the ground and do a great job on it. As I say, It draws itself into the wood so I must be doing something right. I even just guess on the rakers too. But I do use a grinder for them.
The angle of the file and those witness marks are mighty important.
The Husq 555 with a short bar is a bit squirrelly to file on the tail gate. ;D Likes to squirm like a greased pig. :D
I'm with Cfarm, do what works. Bottom line is good chips and straight cuts. If you need a guide, use it. I like simple and with xcut chain and the flat top angle, I use no guide any more. I started with the guide but pretty quickly my hands learned the way and I stopped using the guide. I saw the other day that the XCut guides are finally making it into box stores. I do use a guide on the regular LPX chains because that 10° down angle still confuses my hands over time and I can begin to fade on accuracy as I go around. A large number of folks like that all in one tool. I never tried one and not sure how it will do on the down angle variations of all these different chains. I don't really want another 'thing' to carry around. A round file fits easy in my wedge pouch, saw bag, or on the bench by the vice and I just keep files handy in all those places and change them out when they get worn.
Filing anything on a tailgate is tough for me these days. First, the tailgate is so high that I can't see what I am doing, and second I have a plastic bed liner and everything slips and slides all over the place. I took a piece of 2x12x12" and drove a stump vice in the center of it and keep that in the truck for field work. Easy to use anywhere and puts a 3rd leg on the saw. I don't like working on my knees (ruins my pants over time) but I will do that to sharpen a chain. Mostly I just stay ahead of it. At the end of the day I will bring whatever saws I used into the shop and do them on the bench in a vice for a fast and proper job and check the rakers and perhaps a quick cleaning to keep things flowing. Having good lighting and a solid setup gives me the best results as my eyes get older and my back gets weaker, plus, my bench is only a few feet from the woodstove, so I can stoke that up and keep an eye on it at the same time.
Like I said everybody has a method .I usually sit on a 5 gallon bucket with a seat lid ,actually a John-Deere bucket behind the tail gate of my Ranger which has a plastic bed liner .I file right over the top left right left .I can see the angles better and don't have long cutters on one side and short on the other which many people end up with .In the woods I just find a fat log and cut a slot in it .Holds it like a stump vise .
Then comes Willard and sits the saw on his lap .I have no idea how he does that but it obviously works .
In the entire usable life of a chain you only might need to take the rakers down 4-5 times .When the point of the cutter is right ahead of the last rivet is about as fast as it ever will be .It helps every so often to take a bare file and run the gullet down to the tie strap that way it holds a bigger load of chips before it rocks out .It's not going to weaken the chain like some say unless you hit a fence post .Then all it would do at the worst is break off the cutter .Even then it will still cut although not quite as good .Use it up until it's about gone then hang it on a nail and use it for a stump cutter .
I usually sharpen with the saw in my lap, or more accurately, the bar in my lap with the bigger saws. I've thought about getting stump vises and stuff, but I don't think there's anything I'd like better. My ideal setup would be standing with the saw clamped in a vice at upper stomach level. That could be accomplished in the woods with the right sacrificial tree, but you have to find and sacrifice a tree first. Easier to just plant my butt on the ground, and file in my lap.
Quote from: Al_Smith on January 14, 2023, 08:22:08 AM
....I usually sit on a 5 gallon bucket with a seat lid ,actually a John-Deere bucket behind the tail gate of my Ranger which has a plastic bed liner ........
If I sat on a bucket, even with a seat lid behind my tailgate I would be banging my forehead against the edge of the tail gate. It could be a JD bucket, a Husky, or a Stihl. Wouldn't matter. I think if I sat on a 30 gallon barrel it might work but I would still likely have problems seeing what I was doing and the saw would still slide whichever way I was pushing the file. Just doesn't work for me. :D :D ;D
Some of us with Ford Rangers and Tacomas have the gate at waist height, not chin high, same on the SxS. :D
But yeah, chain filing on short bars is squirrelly free handed. Saw wants to get away. ;D
By only using the file in one hand, the other hand holds the bar, so it really can't slide around. I don't remember at what point I changed from using two hands, but never went back to it. It doesn't require twisting your back around, and you can see the tooth better. It also makes it easy to use the whole length of the file.
It especially makes a difference in filing fine backsaw teeth where good vision is an absolute requirement.
When I file depth gauges, I'll use a gauge on the first two or three until I see what the right height looks like, and then count the same strokes that the gauge asked for, as well as the way it looks.
It definitely slides around with one hand on the bar, other on the file. It's a short bar, not a 24" one. So not much contact with the bar. Like trying to control a ball bearing. The saw will roll to. Used to always use 18" bar, this is 16". Which will drop 99% of the trees from sawing from one side that I'm thinning for firewood. Any 20" one can be cut to, just manoeuvre different. I've been cutting wood for 40 years. I can sharpen a saw, been doing that a while to. But I like guides and a vice will come in handy for steadiness. :)
Same on file guides for clearing saw blades, I don't need a vice for those, the saw don't roll around. Saw's always good and sharp, only way to cover the ground to make money. :)
Other than the pole saws, this is my smallest chainsaw bar. I think I can only hit a couple of cutters before I move the chain. It's a handy little thing, but I think they make some smaller ones now. It absolutely has to have a sharp chain to do anything.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/35437/IMG_2192~0.JPG?easyrotate_cache=1673725475)
Years ago on the first saw I ever reworked (ported ) it had an 8" bar .It was a 40 ish cc Craftsman /Poulan .It did improve it but it certainly was not a lightning fast cookie cutter by any means .It was a freebie so if I'd have killed it I wouldn't be out much .It was a good little limber if the limb wasn't too big .Wouldn't have worked real well on a white oak .