Has anyone tried .042 thick blades on a HFE-21?

21incher · August 28, 2014, 07:07:44 PM

My saw came with 1 1/4 x .035 Hudson double hard blades (made by Woodmizer), I need another box and was thinking about trying some of the Woodmax blades from KASCO. The wood max blades are 1 1/4 x .042 and I was wondering if anyone has tried the thicker blades on a 7 horsepower mill with 16 inch band wheels. Will .007" make a difference in the power required, cause problems with the small band wheels, or require more tension on the blade?

GAB · August 29, 2014, 08:20:35 PM

Quote from: 21incher on August 28, 2014, 07:07:44 PM
My saw came with 1 1/4 x .035 Hudson double hard blades (made by Woodmizer), I need another box and was thinking about trying some of the Woodmax blades from KASCO. The wood max blades are 1 1/4 x .042 and I was wondering if anyone has tried the thicker blades on a 7 horsepower mill with 16 inch band wheels. Will .007" make a difference in the power required, cause problems with the small band wheels, or require more tension on the blade?

I do not have any experience with Hudson mills or Woodmax blades from KASCO so I probably will not properly answer your question, hope some one else can.
However, I have a W-M and was told by one of their reps that the blade tension should be 25000# +/- 1000#. If you increase the thickness of the blade then you need to increase the tension applied to the blade and this could decrease the bearing(s) life. Not knowing the safety factor they used in sizing the mill bearings I have no feel as to whether this will be significant.
The thicker blade will have a wider kerf which could be A-OK in some woods and slow you down in other woods.
Gerald

21incher · August 30, 2014, 02:19:25 PM

Thanks Gerald. My mill has large bearings and I am sure it will take the increased tension. I see that Woodmax and Cooks sell my size blades in the .042 thickness and wanted to try a thicker blade to see if it would stay tensioned longer to help reduce wavy cuts. The .035 Woodmizer blades seem to stretch a lot when new and need to be retensioned several times to keep a decent cut and the set is very small and fills up quickly with burnt on resin from cutting Ash even with lots of lube. I am hoping to find someone that has tried the thicker blades on similar mill before I buy a box of 15.

Dave Shepard · August 30, 2014, 02:58:03 PM

That sounds like expansion from heating up. If you had a hydraulic tensioner, I bet you would see the pressure come back up as it cooled off. Ash is tough sawing, especially when the band gets gunked up.

21incher · August 30, 2014, 06:43:07 PM

Quote from: Dave Shepard on August 30, 2014, 02:58:03 PM
That sounds like expansion from heating up. If you had a hydraulic tensioner, I bet you would see the pressure come back up as it cooled off. Ash is tough sawing, especially when the band gets gunked up.

You may have found the problem Dave. The blade rides on the back of the drive belt on my saw and every time I tension the blade and start sawing the belt is cold. The more I saw the hotter the belt gets and most likely softens the belt and loosens the blade. It may not be the bands stretching, but may be the belt deforming that causes loss of tension on the band. This could be a problem with the design that cannot be fixed with any blade and may require some type of hydraulic tensioner to solve. 8)

justallan1 · August 30, 2014, 07:03:11 PM

What are you setting your tension at, 21incher? I set mine between 30-35 lbs. My HFE-21 only has a 6½ HP engine so I have to go a bit slower than you probably and have to switch blades more, but it has always sawn flat.

Allan

21incher · August 30, 2014, 07:30:13 PM

Quote from: justallan1 on August 30, 2014, 07:03:11 PM
What are you setting your tension at, 21incher? I set mine between 30-35 lbs. My HFE-21 only has a 6½ HP engine so I have to go a bit slower than you probably and have to switch blades more, but it has always sawn flat.

Allan

I set mine at 32 ft lbs and after about 1/2 hour of sawing it loosens up and must be re-torqued again to keep a flat cut. I really just want to try some different blades and it seems everyone but Woodmizer makes the 1 1/4" blades .042 thick and I was hoping to find someone that had tried some.

Tom the Sawyer · August 30, 2014, 08:01:53 PM

There are a couple of companies that will sell you individual blades, and from multiple manufacturers. You could order a few brands of .042 blades, perhaps some different hook angles and see what works best for you before investing in a quantity of one brand/thickness/angle.

Just a thought but a .042 blade might be a little bit too thick for the tighter flex radius of the 16" wheels.

Dave Shepard · August 30, 2014, 08:13:27 PM

I don't think a hydraulic tensioner will make any difference. The tension on my LT40 will back off if I don't keep the band cool. Keeping the band cool will be key.

I agree with Tom, try some different profiles. I've had good luck sawing ash with 4° bands. I can't say for sure, but if you have a bunch of different bands, you may be able to get them ground to the profile of your choice when you have them sharpened.

justallan1 · August 31, 2014, 01:13:25 AM

Quote from: Tom the Sawyer on August 30, 2014, 08:01:53 PM
Just a thought but a .042 blade might be a little bit too thick for the tighter flex radius of the 16" wheels.

I was kind of thinking that also. I've had a few snap now and each of them was on the weld and only 1 while I was sawing.
Also with the small engine on my mill I couldn't afford to lose any power to drive a stiffer band. As it is everything is run by feel and sound and it's a pretty fine line when I want to get something done before dark.

Allan

21incher · August 31, 2014, 08:29:14 AM

Allen that is the same problem that I had. Of the original blade that came with the saw and 6 that I bought 1 snapped at the weld immediately and another has a stress crack starting on the weld. I was hoping the thicker blades would last longer with more area in the weld and require less re-tensioning. I need to buy a box for this fall and guess that I will just stick with the Woodmizer .035 blades and get them to replace the ones that break on the weld. It is funny because Cooks lists the .042 blade for the Oscar mill that has the 16 inch wheels, but it has 10 hp.

Ed

NMFP · August 31, 2014, 05:11:21 PM

Kasco sells .042" bands and I would stick with them for your mill. One thing to remember is that with thinner bands, they will work harden less severely than thicker bands, especially with small band wheels.

Thinner and narrow bands are cheaper than others so stick with what works.

A very large percentage of my customers are using kasco bands and they work great.

Good luck on your search!

justallan1 · September 01, 2014, 08:07:50 PM

21incher, I think that what keeps me sawing flat is that I probably saw slower than most and ease up a bit on any knots. You had mentioned that you were sawing ash, does it do it on other species also? I haven't put any on the mill but just cutting fire wood I know that stuff is tough on equipment. I'll file my saw twice cutting pine firewood, at least twice that on ash, so I just quit cutting it.

Allan

21incher · September 02, 2014, 07:53:36 AM

Quote from: justallan1 on September 01, 2014, 08:07:50 PM
21incher, I think that what keeps me sawing flat is that I probably saw slower than most and ease up a bit on any knots. You had mentioned that you were sawing ash, does it do it on other species also? I haven't put any on the mill but just cutting fire wood I know that stuff is tough on equipment. I'll file my saw twice cutting pine firewood, at least twice that on ash, so I just quit cutting it.

Allan

Allan it all cuts fine if I keep the blade tensioned properly, The ash has sap that builds up in the set area and causes the problem otherwise it cuts great. I just wanted to try some different blades to see if they cut better, stretch less, or may have a slightly larger set. Most other manufacturers make the thicker blades and I was wondering if I have the HP to drive them.
Ed