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My adventure or don't try this at home

Started by Moulder, June 01, 2003, 07:56:36 PM

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Moulder

Well I had the chance to get a rather large butternut tree and being a bowl turner I thought that this would be nifty to make large bowls out of . There is a whole story of how I got the logs out of a tiny tiny gated back yard but as I say that is another story. Everything was going on hunky dory as I was cutting out my bowl blanks in mass {these mills are wonderful to do this on and beats the heck out of trying to slab with a chain saw} with visions of  forms and curves dancing in my mind,when I came to the last log the creme al la creme. Butt end 29" 5 feet long tapering down to only 28". Oh baby I know I'm going to have to turn these bowls on the outboard side of my lathe. I crank this beauty up on the mill and whats this? Well I have just dropped this 400lb monster between the bunks. OH DARN! [this shows my level of dismay] Ok ok I know that this has never ever happened to you'll,but being a avid reader of this forum I thought about it a moment got a log hook out attached to my winch stuck the log hook into the butt end of the log and cranked away! Wow this is cccoool its working its working snapp whats this ??????  Will you look at that it's a log hook know embedded in my forearm. Being a nurse with lots of alphabet soup behind my name married to a nurse with alot of alphabet soup behind her name this problem was easily fixed and with a min amount needles catgut and drug therapy I was happily on my way to solving the problem of getting my log back up on the mill. I am happy to report that with direct supervision from my wife that the log is now  in blanks ready to be turned into bowls as soon as I get feeling back in my arm.But right know I'm going to get myself a big bowl of ice cream with lots of hot fudge {no grits right now thank you] and with my left hand I'm going to make a huge mess but what the heck I'll find my mouth!
RANDY

Fla._Deadheader

Bet the arm is starting to hurt, eh?? If ya get where ya can type, would you explain how you cut the log for bowl blanks?? Crosscut or what?? I get some nice logs that would be good for bowls, if I knew how to cut them. ::)
All truth passes through three stages:
   First, it is ridiculed;
   Second, it is violently opposed; and
   Third, it is accepted as self-evident.

-- Arthur Schopenhauer (1788-1860)

Jeff

Don't forget the crushed pecans. They always help make me feel better on my ice cream and hot fudge. :)
Just call me the midget doctor.
Forestry Forum Founder and Chief Cook and Bottle Washer.

Commercial circle sawmill sawyer in a past life for 25yrs.
Ezekiel 22:30

Tom

Yeah, and the second bowl is even better yet.  Makes you want to drink a glass of ice cold milk for some reason or another. Water will do in  pinch though.

The log won't go anywhere if that's any consolation. :D

Man, I'll bet that smarts!  Don't you just hate it when you do that?

Moulder

Jeff I'm not a nut kind of a guy but after all the hot fudge I probably won't  be able to sleep to night.
Deadheader  when you cut bowl blanks especially for large bowls you want to present the side grain to the tool instead of end grain. The side grain will be stronger in the bottom of the bowl. So  I find that it is easier to work in 5 ft lengths of log since my bunks are 4 ft spaced.[you will see why in a moment] First you want to cut parallel to the bark, Turn the log and make your next cut, now  at this point you need to evaluate where you can get the most wood in relation to the pith of the tree. You ideally would like to make the next cut about 1" above the pith  so that the pith is not in the blank. Since the pith is basically hollow you are about certain to get splitting  from this area .Since it is my experince that the piths are erractic in their travel it is much easier to have shorter lengths of logs to work with  since you may have to taper the log to get as parallel cut to the pith. If you are going to turn the bowl soon cross cut the bowl blank to the width of the wood ie 12'"x12" .If you are not going to turn the blank soon leave the wood as long as possible because the ends will probably split and this will allow  the turner to trim off the ends until he/she gets to solid wood. Splits are the enemy of the wood turner once they start they are hard to stop. Always seal the end grain with something,endgrain sealer, paint what ever to slow the drying. Give the turner as much wood as you can as he can always waste the wood when he is turning. I generally try to give myself 4" as a min but 6 to 7" is better.I hope I have not rambled much if you have any questions I can help with give me a hollar. Hollar if ya hear me. Randy
RANDY

Fla._Deadheader

So, you are actually sawing cants off the log, leaving the pith in the wedge?? That's no problem. My log stops are 32" because we buck the logs and have short sweeps and crotches and ?? to deal with. Sometimes the log leaves a short piece that just doesn't make a good long log?? Thanks for the explain.
All truth passes through three stages:
   First, it is ridiculed;
   Second, it is violently opposed; and
   Third, it is accepted as self-evident.

-- Arthur Schopenhauer (1788-1860)

Percy

Heya Moulder
Not to be a smartass but, better your arm than your forehead ya? It can happen so fast. When I installed a MkII debarker on my old LT40, I was watching it work for the first time and had planted a nugget into the log, right in the path of the debarker just to see it perform. Well that nugget drilled me right in the middle of my forehead quiker than I could close my eyes. Had a biggass dot there for about two months. Not as serious as your situation but a tad scary none the less.

On the ice cream thingie, ya ever had Strawberry Cheesecake Ice cream?...ooooh lordy, I can eat that stuff till I puke....... ;D
GOLDEN RULE : The guy with the gold, makes the rules.

Neil_B

ROLO ICECREAM, MMMMM. :D

Take care of that arm Moulder
Timberwolf / TimberPro sawmill, Woodmizer edger, both with Kubota diesels. '92 Massey Ferguson 50H backhoe, '92 Ford F450 with 14' dump/ flatbed and of course an '88 GMC 3500 pickup.

chet

Percy, I'll bet ya felt perty DanG dumb after dat nugget drilled ya.   ;)  Of course most of da rest of us never tried nutt'in we wish we hadn't.   ;D

Take care or dat arm Moulder, ya only gots 2 of dem.
I am a true TREE HUGGER, if I didnt I would fall out!  chet the RETIRED arborist

Brian_Bailey

Moulder,  My arm ached all night thinking about your mishap. Here's to a fast recovery!

Below are some pictures on how I go about getting bowl / turning stock using my mill.

This is one of those sugar bush maple logs. This log is about 14" on the small end and I selected it because of the spalt in the butt end.

Using a chainsaw I blocked the log into 16" sections.

Using my crane I set the block onto the mill.

I use a couple of boards to keep the block on the mill. I position the block so the center crack is parallel to the mill bed. I cut the slab, then lower the blade down to get the max.thickness but stay an inch or more away from the pith.

Here is the 1st.blank.

I flip the remaining section over and repeat cut.

On this section I was able to get a 5" thick blank. The remaining piece, I cut the same way, only I'm getting blocks that are 4"x4" or whatever thickness the section is.

I then use a drawknife to remove the bark and then paint the whole blank with anchorseal.

Here's the bootie from that log.


I did this to some cherry, now all I have to do is find a buyer or I'll be in the bowl business too.


WMLT40HDG35, Nyle L-150 DH Kiln, now all I need is some logs and someone to do the work :)

Moulder

Brian I was looking at your pictures the bowl blanks are right nice.I wish I could find a better way of sawing my blanks in smaller lengths because as small as you have them the pith would be easier to get ride of . As it is now I tend to get some drift and end up with the pith in some of the blanks.Just as a side note, you may consider cutting them in longer lengths just in case they have to sit for awhile.Even with the anchor seal some woods are prone to splitting out. Most turners I deal with want to get to the wood asap before it even has a chance to think about splitting.For your customer base you may want to contact the American Woodturners Assoc. They put out a booklet of all the clubs in the US and Internationally along with members names ect.I don't know where you live but chances are there is one near you.If you would like let me know and I will get there adress and e-mail to you. Now about that crane! Thanks Randy
RANDY

Fla._Deadheader

Very interesting Brian. Thanks for the great pics. ;)
All truth passes through three stages:
   First, it is ridiculed;
   Second, it is violently opposed; and
   Third, it is accepted as self-evident.

-- Arthur Schopenhauer (1788-1860)

Brian_Bailey

Moulder -    Thanks for the offer on the Turners assc. I have the Nat. & some local web sites bookmarked.  I'm near Buffalo,NY and there are 3 turning clubs there.

I had a specific request from one of the members for the 16" lenghts.  I cut some boomerang cherry ( boomerang, is my term for a crooked log, real crooked, that's where the figure is ) like you stated earlier as a 5' section.  I had problems getting away from the snaking pith with the longer lenghts. So, if I cut any more I'll keep them shorter because of the pith issue.  Hopefully,  they wont sit long but I sense a pricing issue as I'm not going to give them away.
WMLT40HDG35, Nyle L-150 DH Kiln, now all I need is some logs and someone to do the work :)

Neil_B

How do you price something like that??
I've got a nice crooked chunk of cherry that would be perfect for blanks as well as a big chunk of maple that used to be about 36 diameter but is split in the middle. could probably get 2, 24" by 12" blanks out of it.
Timberwolf / TimberPro sawmill, Woodmizer edger, both with Kubota diesels. '92 Massey Ferguson 50H backhoe, '92 Ford F450 with 14' dump/ flatbed and of course an '88 GMC 3500 pickup.

Brian_Bailey

New_Sawyer -  

  I'm figuring the price of each piece by the avg. bf of the piece.
 
  As far as value, I took into consideration on what the piece would be worth if I had sawn it into lumber. I also considered the character ( figure, spalt, etc.) and the amount of time I invested into cutting this specialty item.  I also checked out what simular items were selling for.  The value that I came up with was $2 / bf.,  which I think is quite reasonable with everything considered. I'll know in a couple of days.

One consolation is, come winter if they're still here, a couple of wacks with the splitting maul and they'll fit the wood stove quite nicely.
WMLT40HDG35, Nyle L-150 DH Kiln, now all I need is some logs and someone to do the work :)

Moulder

Guys on pricing of bowl blanks, one of the wood turning mail order bussiness I work through sells ambrosia maple a block 4/4/10 inches for aound 20.00. Now this comes out to about 2bf.I'm currently at work so these are ruff figures as i'll probably get my hand spanked for being in the forum right now. Anyway that works out to 10.00 a bf. I was talking to Alan and he told  me to double the price of klin dry 4/4 and go with that. So with that in mind if you have a blank 12/12/5 that gives you 5bf. say it is in cherry which if memory serves correct is about 3.75 a bf  the starting price would be 35.00.I believe that this will hold out as I have blanks  auctioned off for more than this.The last blanks I sold off were some butternut 10/10/4 which is 3bf and sold for 20.00 a piece. I plan to expand selling and see what happens, I am fortunate in that the club I belong to is about 300 strong.Also to let you all know that blanks are also sold by the pound but I have no experince with that and would not know were to start. Anyway hope this was some help and also if anyone else has experince with this I would like to here from you.Randy   PS another area is exotic woods they are hugely expensive but really sell well.
RANDY

Brian_Bailey

Moulder -  

 When you refer to an auction, is this a local one involving the club members or something like Ebay? Twenty $$ and up wouldn't be hard to take. Brings a smile to my face just thinking about it :D.

 The local woodworking store has bowl blanks available in the ten to fifteen $$ range.  That kinda limits the price unless you have something very unusual.
WMLT40HDG35, Nyle L-150 DH Kiln, now all I need is some logs and someone to do the work :)

Moulder

Brian,This is a auction that the club holds during meetings. I have a friend who states that he has seen blanks on e-bay but I have no personal knowledge of this.Tell you what if you do come up with some unusual let me know and I'll see if I can peddle it for ya. Anything with burl prefix or sufix can be a winner. Randy
RANDY

Brian_Bailey

Moulder -  Thanks again for the offer.  If I ever come across some burl, I'll give you a holler.
WMLT40HDG35, Nyle L-150 DH Kiln, now all I need is some logs and someone to do the work :)

CHARLIE

Hey Moulder, here's a small 8 1/2" Cherry Bowl I just finished. I put a walnut rim around it.  Whaddaya think?  I'm glad to see some other turners on the forum! 8) 8)


Charlie
"Everybody was gone when I arrived but I decided to stick around until I could figure out why I was there !"

Brian_Bailey

Beautifully done bowl, Charlie.  I see you have the segment joinery down pat!  
WMLT40HDG35, Nyle L-150 DH Kiln, now all I need is some logs and someone to do the work :)

Fla._Deadheader

Nice bowl, Charlie. Ya don't reckon it will ever split??  Hard to imagine that wood will split after being sawn, but, the bowl won't.
All truth passes through three stages:
   First, it is ridiculed;
   Second, it is violently opposed; and
   Third, it is accepted as self-evident.

-- Arthur Schopenhauer (1788-1860)

Norm

Nice work Charlie, I was hoping to see an example of bowl turning. The walnut cherry contrast looks great.

CHARLIE

Thanks for the compliments, everyone. I'm just glad to know that there are other Forestry Forum members that are woodturners.  I always learn stuff from other turners. :)   Fla_Deadheader, do a search in the archives for I reported on a method discovered by a woodturner in Hawaii on being able to turn green wood to completion without splitting by soaking it in dish detergent and water.  It works very well and allows a turner to complete a bowl within a week with green wood without worring about splits.  
Charlie
"Everybody was gone when I arrived but I decided to stick around until I could figure out why I was there !"

OneWithWood

One With Wood
LT40HDG25, Woodmizer DH4000 Kiln

Neil_B

Nice work Charlie, I've got a lathe myself but unfortunatly it's collecting dust at the moment. So far made a small bowl and a little baseball bat for my boy.

Timberwolf / TimberPro sawmill, Woodmizer edger, both with Kubota diesels. '92 Massey Ferguson 50H backhoe, '92 Ford F450 with 14' dump/ flatbed and of course an '88 GMC 3500 pickup.

Moulder

Charlie, your bowl is beautiful! I have not tried much with contrasts on bowls but if I could ever fit in in time wise I would love too. Can you go into a little more detail on the soap thing with the bowl. My partner in crime Joe is looking at playing around with it to see if it is a viable option for us. Though we do bowls lots of our work is spindle type work and we are playing around with introducing bowls into our bussiness to see if it will go and if there is profit in it.So far we rough turn let it dry and return. You know that same old chestnut. I'm curious if  the way you are drying if it would lend it's way towards production turning. I am just now looking at coring  bowls which is way too cool and can really save wood in that I can get 2-3 bowls out of one blank depending on the size of the blank of course. Well, there I go on my ramble again. Charlie great bowl. Randy
RANDY

CHARLIE

Moulder, here is one link to what I was talking about.  I found that if you turn immediately after soaking, the wood won't crack but it still moves and your bowl will go oval. That isn't necessarily a bad thing. Sometimes it adds interest. But, I let my bowls soak for about 2 days and then dry for a couple of weeks before finish turning. It cuts way down on the wood movement.

https://forestryforum.com/cgi-bin/board/YaBB.pl?board=general;action=display;num=1031411893;start=8

Here's another link too:

https://forestryforum.com/cgi-bin/board/YaBB.pl?board=general;action=display;num=1017025904;start=12
Charlie
"Everybody was gone when I arrived but I decided to stick around until I could figure out why I was there !"

AndyB

Moulder

Ron Kent is the turner who uses a soap solution on his turnings.
The prime website for turners has to be www.laymar-crafts.co.uk/
They have all kinds of tips for turners as well a links to 2500 plus individual woodturner sites.  You will find Ron Kent among them.

This is my first time on the forum.  I am a turner located in VA and just acquired the personal WM so that I can make my own blanks.  I have tried the soap solution and it seems to work well for me.

AndyB 8)

Tom

I can picture it now.  The guy eats a salad out of your bowls and, everytime, has to run to the bathroom.  He'll think it's some kind of magic and might even begin worshipping it.  What would you call a religion that worshipped wooden bowls?

AndyB

Tom:

All bowls are not turned to hold salads.  Many are turned to sell to collectors.  Some sell for $3,000. to $10,000. depending on the reputation of the turner.

Besides, when you remount and finish turn the bowl you apply a finish which seals the wood.  Usually, you use a food safe oil finish  like mineral oil.  That has been a finish of choice for years.  Now if that doesn't  make it an easy out I don't know what will.

Cheers,

AndyB 8)

Percy

QuoteI can picture it now.  The guy eats a salad out of your bowls and, everytime, has to run to the bathroom.  He'll think it's some kind of magic and might even begin worshipping it.  What would you call a religion that worshipped wooden bowls?

How about B.B.B.(Bowl Bowel Blasphemy) ;D ;D

AndyB....Tom is just funnin you :D :D.
Keep hangin out here and you'll bust a gut daily... :D :D
GOLDEN RULE : The guy with the gold, makes the rules.

Moulder

AndyB, go into some more detail on your experince with finishing turning bowls using soap. Don't let the heretics on this forum give you a hard time, Since after all we are brothers bonded by the truer faith of bowl turning. I also bought my mill to cut bowl blanks but have expanded into lumber cutting to help pay for the machine and do run into lumber for the bowls.Since Charlie had talked about drying bowls this way I went ahead roughed a bowl used 50/50 soap water mixture soaked it for 48 hrs, and am in the process of letting it dry x2 wks, then I will finish turning the bowl and see what happens. I don't know where you are in VA but if you are close to Asheville NC come to one of our club meetings. Check out our web site at www.carolinawoodturners.com. The next meeting is this sat. Well better get back to talking about sawing since this is the sawmill part of the fourm. Randy
RANDY

Tom

ya mean ya gotta talk sawmillin' on this forum?

AndyB,
You gotta look twice around here. Yep I was joshin'.  Couldn't resist it.  Anybody that would believe that Charlie knew what he was talkin' about doesn't know Charlie very good.  He's always trying to look intelligent but there's something missing in there.  If you look real close at his eyes in the pictures of him  on the forum, you will see that nobody's home. :D

woodmills1

here is a shot of a few bowls and plates I got from a gracious customer a few years back.  I cut some lumber for him and gave him some blanks.  You should have seen the cross he made on his fret saw for Kathys mothers funeral.


James Mills,Lovely wife,collect old tools,vacuuming fool,36 bdft/hr,oak paper cutter,ebonic yooper rapper nauga seller, Blue Ox? its not fast, 2 cat family, LT70,edger, 375 bd ft/hr, we like Bob,free heat,no oil 12 years,big splitter, baked stuffed lobster, still cuttin the logs dere IAM

AndyB

Randy - Grew up in Concord, NC.  I''ve visited your website.  Some interesting turnings.

About sawing, how do you all think we get those bowl blanks.

Ron Kent's article said he used Kirkland dishwashing detergent (a CostCo house brand).  My experience has been to soak the bowls overnight and then set them aside for a month.  Have experienced very little loss as long as the pith was removed from the blank.  I got my soap at WalMart.  It smells better when you are turning than the CostCo brand.  Ron Kent uses eucalyptus oil in his mixture to make it smell good.

Tom - knew you were kidding.  I still think mineral oil is slicker.

Tom

Hmmmm Mineral oil and soap!  Sounds like a disaster brewing.  :D

Moulder

Ok Tom, in my profession I have used many concoctions ranging from mineral oil,castile soap, gylcerin, mag citrate ,but my favoriate a 50/50 mixture of milk and honey [you can use molasses] then you hang it high give a h--- of alot. Now that is a recipe for disaster. Don't know what that has to do with bowl turning or is that bowel turning. Randy
RANDY

Tom

Me either, Moulder.  Milk and honey, eh :D

I'm remiss............     Welcome to the Forestry Forum AndyB.  You will find that most of us say something when we have nothing to say. :D  Especially me.  I butt in everywhere.  

Being a bowl turner myself,  I appreciate a good dose of mineral oil. ;D :)

CHARLIE

I belong to the Coulee Region Woodturners. We started the club about 2 1/2 years ago with 10 members and now have over 60 members.

 http://www.crwoodturner.com/

I usually soak my roughed out bowls for 48 hours in 1:1 solution of dish detergent (I bought mine at Fleet Farm and I don't think it matters what brand you use) and water.  I then let it dry for about a week before I turn it. That cuts down on the wood movement. I've had real good luck turning after only a week of drying.  But, sometimes warpage can make a bowl interesting. If you turn the bowl after only a day of drying, and turn the walls fairly thin, it will go oval on you. I prefer a high gloss finish and sand my bowls to 400 or 600 grit. My favorite finish is a shellac based woodturners finish that is put on with the lathe running.  I then polish the finish by buffing with buffing wheels using buffing compounds and finishing by applying canuba wax with a buffing wheel.

Tom, I had an MRI on my head last week and the Neuologist actually told me they found nothing. ;D
Charlie
"Everybody was gone when I arrived but I decided to stick around until I could figure out why I was there !"

chet

Charlie is that a good sign.    :-/  
I am a true TREE HUGGER, if I didnt I would fall out!  chet the RETIRED arborist

CHARLIE

Well Chet, I'm sure I'm gonna pay a bunch of money for them  telling me they couldn't find nothing up there.  Typical though. But they assured me my symptoms were not stroke related or torn blood vessel related and that is nice to hear. Tom could've saved me a bunch of money if he would just have told the doctors that there was nothing up there to begin with.  Anyway, I'll just live with the symptoms and hope it goes away someday.
Charlie
"Everybody was gone when I arrived but I decided to stick around until I could figure out why I was there !"

Tom


Moulder

Charlie, sorry to hear you are having problems.I hope that everything is well with you. I have tried what you said about the soap thing.I will be returning the bowl for finish this week. Standby for news.My new saying of the week that I heard on the radio. Sex is like air. It does'nt matter unless you are not getting any
RANDY

AndyB

Charlie - when I was a kid my father told me I only had two brain cells in my head.  One made my eyes sparkle and he wasn't sure the other worked at all.  
 :D 8)

CHARLIE

 ;D That's good Andy.  That Tom just doesn't think I've even got one. I just don't seem to get no respect from that guy. He's probably trying in vain to get back at me after years of abuse. 8) :D
Charlie
"Everybody was gone when I arrived but I decided to stick around until I could figure out why I was there !"

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