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Looking for advise

Started by SW_IOWA_SAWYER, June 24, 2003, 02:32:12 PM

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SW_IOWA_SAWYER

This weekend I am planning to pick up some big sycamores from my logger friend.(I couldn't pass them up as I love qtr sawn syc ;D) I think I may have discovered a problem as I look around my barn, I am thinking, I have cut more lumber then I will be able to use for myself. I am thinking about selling some, based on all your experiences, what would be my best method of getting the word out, that I am in the lumber business. I am hooked on the logging process, but my raw material is starting to back up. I have also been toying with doing some portable milling for others on a small scale. I don't think I will quit my day job but it could help support the hobby.
I owe I owe so its off to work I go....

Fla._Deadheader

There is a For Sale page here, and there are several "free" classifieds on the web. The WW has a couple, one is Wood Planet. I got a customer from there that is 18 miles away, and he buys steady. That is one way I will try to market my stuff, IF i ever get any dry enough. ::) :D :D
All truth passes through three stages:
   First, it is ridiculed;
   Second, it is violently opposed; and
   Third, it is accepted as self-evident.

-- Arthur Schopenhauer (1788-1860)

Greg

QuoteThis weekend I am planning to pick up some big sycamores from my logger friend.(I couldn't pass them up as I love qtr sawn syc ;D) I think I may have discovered a problem as I look around my barn, I am thinking, I have cut more lumber then I will be able to use for myself. I am thinking about selling some, based on all your experiences, what would be my best method of getting the word out, that I am in the lumber business. I am hooked on the logging process, but my raw material is starting to back up. I have also been toying with doing some portable milling for others on a small scale. I don't think I will quit my day job but it could help support the hobby.


People sell slabs of wood all over the place on ebay, sometimes for outrageous amounts, IMO. Mostly unusual species or spalted or otherwise different looking.

1/4 sawn sycamore is probably a bit specialized for the general audience, but it would be worth giving a try. Take a good picture to show it off! I don't recall seeing any sycamore there, at least in the past month or so.

Most stuff on ebay is sold S4S, kiln dried.

Good luck,
Greg

solidwoods

SW
I think the best place to start selling wood is when you stack it off the mill.  Sort/stack it right then.   $.10 junk stack too $x stack.
I have a $.10 sq ft stack. Its whitepine outer boards, blued, buggy--slabs with a 4" board if worked and other boards hardwood and pines that if reworked will yield boards 3-6"w by 3' and up.

$.25 barn/outbuilding siding stack.
And on and on.
The good woods get shed stickered for my use but the lower and mid grades that I don't want get stacked/stickered for sale right off the mill (or stacked and fork lifted out)

Most yard sale is done if the customer can look at a stack of wood that is all the same price.  They can pick through it and have a choice. What you don't want to do is pick through a stack and grade the price grade that the customer want's right in front of the customer. It only leads to confusion/discussion/chaos.  Sort it ahead of time 500bf or so, each price range.  Skip all the NHLA grade crap for general public. Price, Price, Price.  And have the lower grade junk available. The .10bf if it dosent get used it will be stickers later stuff.  This way they see low-med-high grade woods. Some will upgrade to better some lower.  Bottom line is you don't have to waste time sorting at the point of sale.

JIM
Ret. US Army
Kasco II B Band mill
Woodworking since 83
I mill & kiln dry lumber, build custom furniture, artworks, flooring, etc.
If you mill, you'll be interested in some of my work in one way or another.
We ship from our showroom.
N. Central TN.

inspectorwoody

NHLA Crap  ???

 :D What you might be selling for a few bucks I might be able to sell for five just because I know grade because of the NHLA.

solidwoods

I forgot Inspector Woody was watching.
What I'm trying to say about selling lumber is sort graded lumber if you are cutting that much, But you will notice allot of lumber/boards left over that are low low grade. Oh sure you can NHLA grade all the way to "below grade"  but if you are a small mill opperation like allot of us, the grades below the mid grades just arent going to sell in 400bf this low grade and 500bf that lower grade.  Grade sort stack price the mid and lowers that you arent selling, just accumulating and sell it by $price.  People looking for lower grade just aren't interested in me explaining about grade differences in the lower grades. They want to see the $.25 stack and the $.35 stack.
If you public speak, speak the language they know
Ret. US Army
Kasco II B Band mill
Woodworking since 83
I mill & kiln dry lumber, build custom furniture, artworks, flooring, etc.
If you mill, you'll be interested in some of my work in one way or another.
We ship from our showroom.
N. Central TN.

inspectorwoody


Larry

JIM, I like your dollar grading system.  Similar to what I do.

Got a question for you though.  In the picture the bottom board is red oak 12" wide, 10' long with no defects.  It will fly out of here like it had wings.

The top board has knots, and the crack is the pith.  I would have graded it but with my experience it would have taken an hour reading the book and measuring so I'll just guess that it is in the low 2 to high 3 range.  The redeeming qualities are that it is mostly rift and QS with some flake.

Where do those boards fit into your grading system?  There is a lot of good cabinet lumber in the board for face frame, rails & stiles but a lot of people won't give it a second look.




Larry, making useful and beautiful things out of the most environmental friendly material on the planet.

We need to insure our customers understand the importance of our craft.

Tom

That's where  a little time with a table saw will give you some narrow and short boards to sell and the pith to cook your next steak over. :D

inspectorwoody

Larry depending upon the looks of the rest of the top board here are my thoughts:

Good 2A or
Good 3A Flooring board or
Take a rip above the pith line and get a 1 com  :o

Bottom board looks good but weathered.

inspectorwoody

Larry

ya want me to come on down and do a little inspection  ;D

Larry

Inspector, as Jim stated the NHLA is crap for the general public and the little mills.  Can't tell you how many times people have called and asked for #1 oak and they were thinking softwood rules like at the lumberyard.  What they really wanted was FAS.

I have learned over the years not to even mention a grade of wood because I am not qualified.  My present grading system is pretty much the good, bad and ugly.

The color on my pictures was a little distorted.  That oak has the prettiest pink color you ever would want to see but unfortunately it only has 5 rings to the inch which to me detracts a lot.

  Inspector "A little inspection" Think you might have planted a seed in my pea brain.  Gonna have to think about this a little bit and get back to you.
Larry, making useful and beautiful things out of the most environmental friendly material on the planet.

We need to insure our customers understand the importance of our craft.

solidwoods

The top board would get edged at milling if the pith/crack runs long and you have time.   Definitely before kiln drying.  Then it looks like you would have a 5" board .  Clear? can't tell the rest of the board, but point is (grading rules aside) it looks like a better board to a customer.  Well it is , just narrower.
Grade?  I would have said Select?  Inspector  Woody would it be Select? 4"and wider  6-16' if rules 67-69 are met?
Anywho, I think the NHLA rules are fine, they give an industry a common set of rules to use, and obvious efficiency necessity.  I sell to people that know about hardwood rules yes, but I keep 4-5 stacks of lumber priced from $.15 - $.45.  Yes I could NHLA grade them but what would I have?  The bottom end.  Yes 5000bf of any of the groups could go out on a trailer to a buyer, but I don't have nor want a large amount of lower grade hardwoods, I'm not a high production mill so I don't buy lg. qty's of lower grade logs. I buy mid grade and better logs.  I have tried but it still takes me the same time to cut a log with low value lumber as does a higher quality log to yield better lumber.  But low grade logs still happen right?  That's what allot of us are trying to move. Small qty of lower grade woods. We don't want them but the are here in small quantity, too small to wholesale.   Hence 4-5 stacks priced and ready to pick through.  Price it cheap, get it the heck out of here.  It's like a Meat sandwich "it ain't getting any prettier".
The low end quality stacks could be NHLA grades if you wish,  but it's not economical for me since I don't have a large quantity, and most people here arent interested in a grade, they want to look at it and know the price.

Other note.
Any one else do this cutting sequence for some cutting?
I cut 1.125" increments for 4/4. on a 3-4 face log this way
First cut open a face 5+" Depends on dia.
Second cut same
Third cut on the first 1.125 increment that will make a board
Forth cut same as third
Now the cant is on a scale to cut 1.125 boards 12.3/8, 11.1/4, 10.1/8,  9,  7.7/8, down to 5 5/8 or 4 1/2

You can as you cut pick best faces to cut (if it applies) and stay right with the above scale.
This way does not allow much flexibility for other size cuts during the cutting , and it yields random width boards. I use this scale for cutting White Pine for wallboards, except when I get to 7 7/8 cant, I stop turning and cut top to bottom in 1 1/8 increments (wish I had a grade resaw).

Meat sandwich?
JIM
Ret. US Army
Kasco II B Band mill
Woodworking since 83
I mill & kiln dry lumber, build custom furniture, artworks, flooring, etc.
If you mill, you'll be interested in some of my work in one way or another.
We ship from our showroom.
N. Central TN.

inspectorwoody

Jim

From what I see there is a defect towards the right end of the top board, therefore the highest I am going to call it is a 1com if remaned correctly. Otherwise you will have to go with a lower grade if you choose not to reman. Along with that I do not know board length and or width, therefore I cannot determine my suface measure to see how many units I need to yield and or cuttings I am allowed. I am going to assume by the looks of it that I will have a 3 foot surface measure if the board is 8' long which in turn I will need to cut 24 units in one cut. Remember this is after I rip it down to a 4" give or take some.

Ask NormF about a reman I did out there  ;) Made him a few nickles I did...Ok...I'll admit...a few dollars  ;D Nice wide Walnut board! $$$$$$$

Also why are you opening up your logs to 5+ inches?? Granted your FAS rules state 6" and wider but you figure you open it up to 4"...get a select board and your next board will yield you FAS and you haven't wasted as much. We open every species up to 4" except Walnut where we will open to a 5" face.

Ron Wenrich

How I saw a log is often dependent on the quality and species of the log.  I can't sell a select grade in most species I saw.  My target is a 6" face and try for a F1F, especially on my better logs.  A 4" board will yield only a 1 Com.

For side 3 or 4, I will try for a 6" wide face.  Inside out sawing will work on many logs.  But on the better quality, I will pull that 6" face and put my waste in the center of the log, where the grade is lower.

I also saw to a cant.  Pulling 2 Com instead of a cant will lower the dollar yield and lower production (which raises milling costs).  Cant sizes will vary on species, markets, and log quality.  On dense hardwoods, I will saw heavier to ties.

Spinning the log like you are doing is OK, as long as you have a method of taking the stress out of the log.  However, any spring in the log will result in the loss of a board due to being a miscut.  I usually like to take a shim and straighten out the log before pulling a board.  Less miscuts, more grade.
Never under estimate the power of stupid people in large groups.

inspectorwoody

"A 4" board will only yield a 1 com"

Ron

This must be in your standards or could you explain this.

If we go talking rules again a 4" x 6' is a Select grade.

Ron Wenrich

I can explain it quite simply.  For tulip poplar, red oak, white oak and walnut, we have no select market.  They do not buy on select grades, they buy on a face grade.  The only markets that do buy on select grades are the northern markets.  Appalachian markets do not.  That's to make up for the smaller timber size.

They do buy cherry, birch and the maples on a select grade

Just because the rule book states that a 4" x 6' board makes a select grade, it doesn't mean that the markets support that grade.

Never under estimate the power of stupid people in large groups.

inspectorwoody

I understand it now  ;D I'll have to remember that.


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