Anybody seen a white pine with this many leaders before?

[HemlockKing]

This might be a record  :D

 

[Ed_K]

 I have one up back with 4 or 5 can't remember but it made a great tree stand ;), almost a tree house :laugh:.

[woodroe]

Thats some prime pasture pine right there. 
I've cut down quite a few like that being on what was once pasture and field gone back to woods.
Lots of firewood in those.

[Gere Flewelling]

It looks like it's been doing its job.  Lots of little one growing around it.  There will pines in the future.  I see a lot of areas around here where there are big pines and nothing but hemlocks growing underneath them.  They need something driving around them to scratch up the ground around them and let those cones do their job.  It seem many loggers like to log in the snow and not disturb the ground.  It seems the only thing that grown then is beech trees.  I am not a pro, but have observed this around my area.

[HemlockKing]

Thats some prime pasture pine right there.
I've cut down quite a few like that being on what was once pasture and field gone back to woods.
Lots of firewood in those.

AFAIK my land has never been a pasture or farm, no evidence of logging in last 100 years from what I can tell either I’m not expert though. There are some truly old spruce, balsam(as old as a balsam will get lol)and pine around here. I wanted to cut it but it would be such a big bald spot in the canopy takes up SO much space  :D

[SwampDonkey]

All kinds of them up here. Nobody wanted them is why they are still standing. Welcome to the world of weevil and animal damage.  :D :D

[ehp]

up north there is tons of this stuff , we just called it field pine and hoped we didnot have to cut it , mills do not like that kind of pine

[Ianab]

I wanted to cut it but it would be such a big bald spot in the canopy takes up SO much space  

That big hole in the canopy is what's needed for the pine seedlings around it to grow though. Too much shade and you encourage the shade tolerant hemlock and beech (or whatever you have locally that fills that niche)

Then you watch your new saplings, and if you spot one that's lost it's main leader ~6ft off the ground, just thin it out, otherwise it's going to end up like that mutant in 50 years time. 

So personally I'd drop it, and let 4 useful trees grow in it's place. 

[mike_belben]

Thats some prime pasture pine right there.
I've cut down quite a few like that being on what was once pasture and field gone back to woods.
Lots of firewood in those.

AFAIK my land has never been a pasture or farm, no evidence of logging in last 100 years from what I can tell either I'm not expert though. There are some truly old spruce, balsam(as old as a balsam will get lol)and pine around here. I wanted to cut it but it would be such a big bald spot in the canopy takes up SO much space  :D

Places thatve been logged will have stumps and tops.  Abandoned pasture will have none and the ground is pretty smooth.  Truly old growth will have pits and mounds and evidence of big trees dying of old age or already half composted on the stump.  as well as different flora/fauna species thriving in a much wetter, mossy shaded environment from the super closed mature canopy.  Old woods is wetter year round and supports different stuff.

[moodnacreek]

It does not have to be an old pasture but in one that's what the first generation looks like. Open grown does that to trees. To bad they invented cardboard. There once was a market for w. pine almost that bad; box shooks.

[thecfarm]

There was a market for pine like that back in '93 to '96. That was when I was cutting with my father. Swampdonkey favorite company, Irving, was buying pine like that. I really can't tell how big that is, but the stuff we had was 3 feet across easy. And the leaders was almost 2 feet across too. They would buy it and cut out the knots and bad places and dove tail it. We sold them truck loads of that junk. My father came from the Old School and could not believe they would buy wood like that. He did not believe the young truck driver, my age, that they would buy that. After putting a log on, and they paid us for it, we started to chase all those ugly trees down. I can still hear him say, You can sell good logs all the time, but can't sell bad ones all the time.
We even sold them crotches. We sent some with 3 crotches too. Something else I can still hear him say, They paid us for it!!!
Some of that stuff had limbs 6-8 inches across. We would haul some of the limbs out for pulp.

[HemlockKing]

It does not have to be an old pasture but in one that's what the first generation looks like. Open grown does that to trees. To bad they invented cardboard. There once was a market for w. pine almost that bad; box shooks.

I have a lot of pines that are probably 120- 150 year old half look like bushes some actually have good butt logs up to probably 24 ft. Like I said I'm not sure if it's been logged. My land makes for a unique spot since it's borders coastal land/being inland, right off my property the land dips into marsh land, and a lot of my land burrows down into marsh, maybe it was sparred and not ever logged in recent times. I will get some
Pictures of the straight trunk monsters 

[HemlockKing]

There was a market for pine like that back in '93 to '96. That was when I was cutting with my father. Swampdonkey favorite company, Irving, was buying pine like that. I really can't tell how big that is, but the stuff we had was 3 feet across easy. And the leaders was almost 2 feet across too. They would buy it and cut out the knots and bad places and dove tail it. We sold them truck loads of that junk. My father came from the Old School and could not believe they would buy wood like that. He did not believe the young truck driver, my age, that they would buy that. After putting a log on, and they paid us for it, we started to chase all those ugly trees down. I can still hear him say, You can sell good logs all the time, but can't sell bad ones all the time.
We even sold them crotches. We sent some with 3 crotches too. Something else I can still hear him say, They paid us for it!!!
Some of that stuff had limbs 6-8 inches across. We would haul some of the limbs out for pulp.

Glad you guys could make a profit off these mutants c farm. They aren't pretty that's for sure  ;D

[HemlockKing]

Thats some prime pasture pine right there.
I've cut down quite a few like that being on what was once pasture and field gone back to woods.
Lots of firewood in those.

AFAIK my land has never been a pasture or farm, no evidence of logging in last 100 years from what I can tell either I’m not expert though. There are some truly old spruce, balsam(as old as a balsam will get lol)and pine around here. I wanted to cut it but it would be such a big bald spot in the canopy takes up SO much space  :D

Places thatve been logged will have stumps and tops.  Abandoned pasture will have none and the ground is pretty smooth.  Truly old growth will have pits and mounds and evidence of big trees dying of old age or already half composted on the stump.  as well as different flora/fauna species thriving in a much wetter, mossy shaded environment from the super closed mature canopy.  Old woods is wetter year round and supports different stuff.

I’ve been trying to soak up Tom wessels reading the forested
Landscape. From what I can put together this land has never been
Touched. No clean cut stumps, many pits and pillows from
Old trees topping over and pulling up their root ball and decaying like so, I can’t find any clean cut stumps with no logs around, mind you my eyes aren’t trained to see this stuff really. I’m sure a forester could walk in here and tell
Me everything about it. The 

[HemlockKing]

I wanted to cut it but it would be such a big bald spot in the canopy takes up SO much space  

That big hole in the canopy is what's needed for the pine seedlings around it to grow though. Too much shade and you encourage the shade tolerant hemlock and beech (or whatever you have locally that fills that niche)

Then you watch your new saplings, and if you spot one that's lost it's main leader ~6ft off the ground, just thin it out, otherwise it's going to end up like that mutant in 50 years time.

So personally I'd drop it, and let 4 useful trees grow in it's place.

If I came across this
Mutant years ago I would of
Cut it no problem! The only
Time I leave mutants is when they are old Like one I'm picture. I might drop it once these new pine seedlings come in

[HemlockKing]

Hurricane damage  :embarassed: :embarassed:

 

[SwampDonkey]

There was a market for pine like that back in '93 to '96. That was when I was cutting with my father. Swampdonkey favorite company, Irving, was buying pine like that.

I think you guys was in favor on that deal. Irving would just laugh at us unless we high graded our woods for him. :D

[SwampDonkey]

I've got aspen ground that wasn't cleared by man, but fire. It had 36" aspen when they got too old by then. The original stand before fire, I suspect was cedar/spruce. Found old charred cedar trunks. Full of pits and mounds, but trees only 90 years old. I have a good idea of when the fire occurred. Grandmother was a young girl and she was born in 1900, so I figure 1910 or so. Her uncles were teamsters cutting wood up in there, and I don't know how the fire started. Dad did cut 300 cord on 10 acres on Feb 1984, at that time the aspen was 20"+, and that wasn't a clear cut. The trees grew to 90', actual tape measure. The remnants along the property line have all died off now and making soil. ;D The maple, birch and softwood wasn't touched at that time. But has been clear cut since.  I have a yellow birch in there in the 'Great Trees of New Brunswick', co-authored by Dave Palmer. It wasn't the biggest one found when researching for the book, so just a mention in the appendix of the book. Still old, and the bark is all platy, you have to look at the crown to see the yellow bark. 77 ft in height (estimate with clinometer), not exceptional as this ground isn't exceptional soil but it holds moisture. The aspen was definitely taller. ;D

[HemlockKing]

I've got aspen ground that wasn't cleared by man, but fire. It had 36" aspen when they got too old by then. The original stand before fire, I suspect was cedar/spruce. Found old charred cedar trunks. Full of pits and mounds, but trees only 90 years old. I have a good idea of when the fire occurred. Grandmother was a young girl and she was born in 1900, so I figure 1910 or so. Her uncles were teamsters cutting wood up in there, and I don't know how the fire started. Dad did cut 300 cord on 10 acres on Feb 1984, at that time the aspen was 20"+, and that wasn't a clear cut. The trees grew to 90', actual tape measure. The remnants along the property line have all died off now and making soil. ;D The maple, birch and softwood wasn't touched at that time. But has been clear cut since.  I have a yellow birch in there in the 'Great Trees of New Brunswick', co-authored by Dave Palmer. It wasn't the biggest one found when researching for the book, so just a mention in the appendix of the book. Still old, and the bark is all platy, you have to look at the crown to see the yellow bark. 77 ft in height (estimate with clinometer), not exceptional as this ground isn't exceptional soil but it holds moisture. The aspen was definitely taller. ;D

Swamp donkey, sounds like you’ve had land in the family for awhile. This land I occupy has been in my family since 1953. My grandfather dozed the path into the middle of the land(150) acres in the 1980s then left it untouched until 2019 when I started working on it. Most of the softwood I cut down is from 1940ish dating back the rings, i have about 20acres “managed” and I’ve got another 130 or so to go, I have walked 1/3 of the land but I still don’t know all of what I got, so I end up finding old BIG hidden trees every now and then. I’m about to come in on a hardwood dominate area in my land and I’m excited as I’m tired of mostly working with softwoods.

[HemlockKing]

 

 Hardwoods ahead 

[chep]

Girdle it and walk away.  By the time the babies need thinning it will have taken care of itself. Falling apart slowly with help from the woodpeckers. Yes the initial impulse is to cut it. But save the mess and stand damage. Girdle it tomorrow!! 

[SwampDonkey]

Yep, I'm with ya HemlockKing.  I've thinned about 60 acres of the best land, lost 3 acres of second growth 10" aspen to Arthur on that area that had the huge ones. I have 3 wet runs that I let nature deal with. I put the effort where the biggest bang for the effort counts, so that is probably the other 7 acres in wet land. Still waiting for the cedar to get some height on a 2 acre section. You thin them too soon, they will have green limbs down low that want to grow trees and become a mess. ;D I'm now thinning the second time with chainsaw for firewood. It's been running 8 cord/acre harvested, but I still have not fully thinned this area, probably another 18 cords to get and I've cut 22 now. Around 4 acres, so that bumps the average up to 10 cord/acre from thinning. Did a fix area plot cruise 14 years ago on this area and was only 2.5 cord/acre. Rings are 2 to the width of your index finger. I figure 30 cords per acre before thinning. In 15 years I hope to have 40 cords/acre total, for another thinning for $$ this time. Retirement fund. ;D

[HemlockKing]

Yep, I'm with ya HemlockKing.  I've thinned about 60 acres of the best land, lost 3 acres of second growth 10" aspen to Arthur on that area that had the huge ones. I have 3 wet runs that I let nature deal with. I put the effort where the biggest bang for the effort counts, so that is probably the other 7 acres in wet land. Still waiting for the cedar to get some height on a 2 acre section. You thin them too soon, they will have green limbs down low that want to grow trees and become a mess. ;D I'm now thinning the second time with chainsaw for firewood. It's been running 8 cord/acre harvested, but I still have not fully thinned this area, probably another 18 cords to get and I've cut 22 now. Around 4 acres, so that bumps the average up to 10 cord/acre from thinning. Did a fix area plot cruise 14 years ago on this area and was only 2.5 cord/acre. Rings are 2 to the width of your index finger. I figure 30 cords per acre before thinning. In 15 years I hope to have 40 cords/acre total, for another thinning for $$ this time. Retirement fund. ;D

A lot of the damage here was by katrina, I have a lot of new balsam growth(~20 year) in these "fielded" area where all of the trees have been blown down, I came though at the perfect time and did a thinning as they were starting to starve each other off, they are good height, probably 20ft and 2-3 inch in dia if i had waited another 2-3 years probably would have been too late as they would have been just tall with no limbs, I cant wait for 5 years I think they will explode in growth, might have a bunch of massive Christmas trees!
Do you have any pictures of this wetland area you speak of SD?

[HemlockKing]

Girdle it and walk away.  By the time the babies need thinning it will have taken care of itself. Falling apart slowly with help from the woodpeckers. Yes the initial impulse is to cut it. But save the mess and stand damage. Girdle it tomorrow!!

I slept on it and I think I decided I will cut it down...more on this later  :D :D ;D
I have a LOT of OLD pine(120+ yr old I estimate) that has multiple leaders, I usually keep a old pine even if they have a bunch of leaders but this mutant is something else, it's just horrible to look at, I can tolerate 2-3 leaders but this, this has got to go.

[HemlockKing]

Looking at that trunk of that tree has me thinking if/when I do cut it down..should I try to make something "interesting" out of it?, it's not everyday you come across a chunk of wood in...that shape  :D