I received this Email as a "noreply forestry forum" message so there was no way that I could reply.
I've read a number of your posts regarding lube, some saying you run Cascade, others suggesting you may have switched or will be switching to spindle cleaner. I was wondering what your experience with both has been with heart pine - including how you set the lubemizer (assuming you use it). We are cutting old longleaf (green, but most are 100+ years, some 200+ years, as well as occasionally salvage trees that have been dead a while), and run into true fatwood, knots are dense with pitch, etc... We run spindle cleaner (diluted 1:10 with water) with the lubemizer on 6 or even continuous and still get pitch buildup on the blades - and with the lubemizer setting so high, the dust gets soaked and cakes onto boards and the machine, etc...
I really don't want to use diesel - for one thing my main sawyer seems to have trouble remembering to shut off the flow at the end of the day - but I will probably try it if I can't get anything else to work.
Thanks for sharing your experience.
-Ellery
I still use 2oz (glugs) of regular liquid Cascade per gallon of water because it is simple to use, it does not make suds while mixing, and because it works.
I tried various Cotton Picker Spindle Lubes which worked very well but I did not see where the change was worth the bother.
You are sawing Longleaf Pine which is a bad boy and happily I seldom saw it. The
Cascade mixture won't do the job. When I saw it I use my Squirt Bottle with Diesel. There is no question that if I regularly sawed Longleaf, I would convert over to Diesel.
Ellery, Hopefully this answers your questions from me, but such questions are better asked on the open forum so that all members can add their responses and that all members and guests can glean some knowledge.
I have tried Dawn, diesel, windshield washer fluid for our Digger Pine. Dawn wasn't too good. Diesel is hard on the belts. Washer fluid didn't work at all. My buddy who is a dairyman suggested the cleaner the use for the stainless milk tanks. It cuts everything and leaves no residue. Unfortunately I don't know what it is or even if it's readily available. Whatever it is it works great.
That's an acid rinse, I don't see it working well. After having tried everything, including working with a company to develop a plant based, purpose made, water soluble, lube I use diesel. Can't beat it and it's cheap, I might use 5 gallons a month.
I use dish soap and water but have my tail person spray diesel on the band for every cut on the big pine I saw that has lots of pitch.
I have basically went to diesel mixed with old hydraulic fluid. 3 gallons of diesel mixed with 2 gallons of the hydraulic fluid. I was using a 4 and 1 mixture but the 3 and 2 mixture is better. Cheaper for one thing as the old fluid dose not cost me anything. the oil makes it thicker and slows it down and even then it is still more than I would have to have. That is using the lubemizer on the slowest setting it will go. Ever since I started using the diesel oil mixture I have not had to change a blade roller bearing as the diesel and oil keeps them lubricated. When I was using the soap and water I had to change them out fairly often. I use this unless I am sawing something like I did a couple weeks back. It was 1x red cedar that the customer was going to put up rough cut so I didn't want to leave oily marks across his boards so I used the water soap mixture.
Quote from: Magicman on April 21, 2023, 08:11:24 AMI received this Email as a "noreply forestry forum" message so there was no way that I could reply.
I still have no idea how this message was sent as a "noreply @forestryforum" Email?? Don't know if it was a FF member or guest? Maybe @Jeff (https://forestryforum.com/board/index.php?action=profile;u=1) knows?
When running diesel plug the bottom nozzle with a 1/8" MPT plug, that raises the back pressure on the top plug and eliminates dribbling.
I've had mine plugged for years.
We talking about something on your feet MM? :D
Quote from: Southside on April 21, 2023, 10:48:08 AM
That's an acid rinse, I don't see it working well. After having tried everything, including working with a company to develop a plant based, purpose made, water soluble, lube I use diesel. Can't beat it and it's cheap, I might use 5 gallons a month.
Having picked up milk on dairy farms bulk tanks get washed with a real slippery soap, then a acid rinse. Steve
I use John Deere AN114022 crop cleaner spindle fluid about 8 oz in 5 gal keeps everything I saw clean. But I dont saw LL pine and havent tried it on SYP fatwood beams which is the most challenging stuff I've ever sawn.
I would be very interested in hearing if 16 oz AN114022 in 5 gal would keep LL pine blades clean. I think it might
I've tried it all. Most of it works fine on most things. When you get into true heart pine you either switch to diesel or pull your hair out. You are welcome to chose for yourself. Same can be said for sawing live oak.
I 100% agree with Jake above but I still don't know who sent the Email to me nor how?
Can you forward it to me? I will make Jake work on it all night. :D
I use pine sol from the dollar store on pine. Works for me
I have used it all .i saw syp mostly and diesel works best of all .what is inportant is to clean your drive pully when you change belts.with diesel you will get some build up of ruber on your pully.
I use Pinesol mixed in water for most log species but for white pine I use old heating fuel wich is red dyed diesel. I get it for free from a friend who own a plumbing and heating business.
I run dawn with water and use a spray can with diesel after 2 cuts in the real pitchy stuff
I saw lots of EWP and use pine sol, plugs of Dawn, and the odd spray of diesel.Also clean and rotate the wheel belts.
That was me who reached out through the forum's personal message option - not sure why it would not have included my forum ID or email. But thank you, Magicman and others, for your responses. A couple follow-ups (some have already provided their responses, just looking for consensus if there is one, or additional input):
1) Straight diesel or mix with bar oil, hydraulic oil, etc...?
2) Do you just use the lowest lubemizer setting or convert to a drip/wipe system like Cooks?
3) Curious about the suggestion to plug the bottom hole on the lubemizer block - is buildup not an issue on the bottom of the blade?
4) How frequent are issues with the motor and check valves when running diesel?
and:
5) For those who use spindle cleaner, what is the ratio with water; any admixtures?
Thanks again.
Thanks Ellery for clearing up the mystery.
My Blade Cleaner/Lube has not changed. I am still with a glug of Cascade per gallon of water and it serves me well. I just sawed 22 SYP logs this past week with no issues. When I see a buildup on the blade I switch the Lubemizer to "continuous" and it quickly cleans the blade. I had a few logs where I had to clean the blade after each pass but with the Operator's Seat, I have a clear closeup view of the blade and can easily operate the Lubemizer switch.
I do have a spray bottle e/w Diesel that I can use with Longleaf and true Heart Pine.
Straight diesel.
Use Lubmizer on the lowest setting it will go, I sometimes turn mine off, just letting it drip out of the hose.
Yes, plug the hole on the bottom, it will decrease the combined orifice size and help the spray pattern on the top of the board.
Buildup happens when excess sawdust packs between the wheel and the band. There should very little buildup on the outside of the band.
Oils cause the Butyl rubber of the check valves to swell, so they fail leak after awhile, about as frequently as they always did when I used Pin Sol. Replace the rings the with Viton, and they will last. I have never had a pump fail running diesel, I have had 2 pumps fail due to freezing using water and other additives.
Spindle cleaner is very effective, just put in enough to see the water mixture adhere to the band metal. If you see your current lube mixture bounce off the band and hit the floor, then it is not adhere and wetting the band.
Your band should be dead clean when you take it off, as clean as when you put it on.
Years ago, an official, WM team Competition Sawyer, Earl, showed up fresh form a show, and I asked him to show me a few things. One thing led to anther, and I asked him to "speed saw" for me. He agreed, immediately took my jug of Woodmizer supplied Pine Sol based fluid off my mill and poured it onto the ground. All of it. Imagine my astonishment when he did that. He went into the back corner of his official Woodmizer panel truck and pulled out a jug of John Deere spindle cleaner, and poured it in my jug with some water and got to sawing, with my mill, at an amazing speed. When I questioned him about it, he laughed, as said when the money was on the line, put the oil in the jug. I have been using it, or diesel, ever since.
I'm assuming you saw this Emmy and Oscar acclaimed video on the Tube?
https://youtu.be/clUJXtLlEnI
It's good to read you mentioning my friend Earl. I talked to him last month and he is still as entertaining as ever. When he was sharpening our bands and he asked what we were using for lube and I replied cotton picker spindle cleaner or diesel, he told me to "move up to the front of the class".
Earl is a great guy!
Earl sold me and demoed my first mill. I blame all of this on him. ffcheesy
I'll tell him the next time I see him. He is quite the enabler. Last time I talked to him about you, he referred to you affectionately as a "big ole galoot".
I would love for him to just do story time for us. He has some good ones. I recollect one about demonstrating an LT-70 somewhere in South America a long, long way from a spare blade guide arm and he had a wreck while sawing that bent the only one in captivity significantly. He declared lunchtime and spent about an hour and a half manipulating that one back into conformity.
Looks like I may have to put the seat back on ours. (this belongs in the stupid thread) I think I tore my quadriceps in my right leg this afternoon playing kickball with the FFA students after school.
I must say I really had no intention of using it. I've been revamping my old B20 and what little I've sawn with it while tinkering on it the gulp or 2 of dawn and dash of pinesol has done fine...
however, when the neighbor across the ridge is an equipment mechanic and he kindly gifts you 25-30 gal from a machine he flushed the fuel system on I'd be a dummy at the least if I didn't try it when I get the mill fired back up.
My lube system for now is a spray bottle with diesel in it. (Subject to change without notice.) Of course I don't cut any where close to the amount others on here do. But, when I see a l things beginning stick to the blade I give a squirt or two on top of the moveable blade guide and it cleans right off. I have experimented with a drip system, but it's easy to get too much on the blade, then the blade squirts off the front of the wheels. I also put a squirt on the roller when I finish and let the band spin around a few times to help keep the rust down between sawing.
It just seems wrong to me to dump water on a bare blade or bearing. But that seems to be the industry standard. I might be wrong but hey, ignorance is bliss.
If my experience is like most beginners, I tended to use too much of a weak blade cleaning/lube recipe starting out. Because I tended to saw slow as a beginner, heat caused buildup on the blade. Buildup made me think I needed more weak cleaner. It didn't work. It just caused more buildup, wet wood and caked up sawdust. Worst case is detergents wash the grease out of guide roller bearings. Been there and done that.
Better to use very small amounts of a strong cleaner/lube. That's why diesel works, it's a strong solvent as are methanol (windshield washer) and propylene glycol (RV Antifreeze) to lesser degrees. Detergents work okay in enough quantity in the mixture. I didn't start with enough in my recipe.
All the additives for lube recipes cost something. Given the small quantity of diesel necessary to keep blades clean, the costs are equal to or less than other products. On 3 recent jobs of 4-5 hours each in white oak I may have used a quart of diesel.
Last time I bought a big jug of Dawn, it was over $7. A gallon of diesel is $3.90+/-