Woodmizer BMS25, Anybody got one?

[Old Greenhorn]

SO I got an email from WM today about this new sharpener they have. The price point ($799) is reasonable and something for me to shoot for. I watched the video and it is pretty fast and automatic. They don't have a cam for 4° blades yet and that is a show stopper for me, but they say it is coming soon. I would still need a setter and for me it has to do 2 teeth so the setter then costs more than the sharpener. I will look for another brand like Cooks or somebody they can get me into a setter I can afford. 
But the sharpener is interesting. Does anybody have one yet? Maybe it's too son, but if someone happens across this thread later on, maybe you could tell us how it works for you? I think it won't be long before these are out there in the world. Looks like a winner.

BMS25 Bandsaw Blade Sharpener| Portable Sawmills & Wood Processing Equipment

[barbender]

I'd have to see it in person, I got the email flyer too. Honestly it doesn't look very impressive, I think it is a retool of the logosol model, including the 12v motor. What are going to hook your pickup to it? I could be wrong of course😊

[Old Greenhorn]

Well the 12v feature is neither here nor there for me. I always have a battery laying about for jumping tractors or starting the generator, so no big deal to hook that up. I was attracted by the price and the automatic operation. I am not yet close to having this in my budget, so I am just keeping my eyes open. New product releases come slow these days. Gotta keep up. :D

[Durf700]

it actually looks really good for the money!

[trapper]

the 1987 woodmizer sharpener i had used A 12 volt motor

[Southside]

Yea - got the same e-mail.  From the video it appears to only grind the face of the tooth, not the gullet or the back side.  If you don't grind the gullet cracks out you will get broken bands earlier than if they had been removed, just basic metal maintenance.  

Pretty sure they had this same design a long time ago in a black color pattern, and since they bought the Logosol label then it makes sense that is where it came from.  

Have to say I am on the fence about how effective it really is from a money saving standpoint.  If it only grinds the face, then there is that issue, and you still need a setter to do it right.  At $10 / band to have them done by re-sharp you need to sharpen over 180 bands before you break even, figure in your time to do that and the number goes up, ball park 400 BF / band cycle and you are at 72,000 BF of lumber sawn.  Still a hobby?  

I find sharpening to be like shaving.  When you didn't have to do it you couldn't wait to be able to do it, now that you need to do it, you wish you didn't have to.  

[Old Greenhorn]

I find sharpening to be like shaving.  When you didn't have to do it you couldn't wait to be able to do it, now that you need to do it, you wish you didn't have to.  

There's a gem. Yeah, just like that. I straddle that hobby/business line and beyond the $10/blade resharp, there is the shipping cost and time delay. I am not running out to buy one...yet, but looking into it. Yeah, I noticed no spark in the gullet or backside, but they say they have 'cams' so I was thinking it will do the full profile. If it does not, that I am out. The full form has to be ground or there is no integrity and you wind up with misshapen gullets (sounds like a serious medical issue). There is also a guy down the road with an LT50 that told me if I ever got a sharpener setup I could do all his blades, he doesn't resharpen anything, used once and throw on the pile, no time to mess with it. He has a pile of blades. Also have a guy with an LT 35 4 doors down. SO there is that aspect for winter work in the shop. I'm just rolling this stuff around in my head.

[barbender]

If you want to sharpen for others especially, get a real sharpener. I have the Cook's that I like ok. I got that for the versatility of doing different profiles and angles, Woodmizer was just coming out with the CBN grinders at the time. If I was doing it over I'd get the WM. I really only sharpen for myself, if someone wanted me to sharpen blades on a CBN machine and they had a different profile blade, I'd probably just make but the CBN wheel🤷🏽‍♂️

[SawyerTed]

There's a reason that sharpener is $799.  There are several sharpeners in that price range.  I hate to admit this but I ordered and looked at one very similar.  It was essentially a chainsaw sharpener that ground the face only.  I sent it back because it was a spindly wobbly little machine.  If I were sharpening a couple of blades per month maybe it would do but for 30 to 60 or more blades per month, it would never meet expectations.   While spending $5,000 isn't in your budget there are better machines for not a whole lot more money.  

Doing the math on the pay back for more expensive equipment is important especially if you are in that hobby-business gray area.  I was stuck in that shipping-sharpen and return cycle for a while.  In a couple of instances it was quicker to order a new blades than wait on Resharp to send my blades.  Once that happened a couple of times it became apparent that having my own equipment would be a savings in 14-16 months.

Finding someone within driving distance who will sharpen your blades might be a better alternative.  I sharpen for a couple of hobby guys.  I charge 7$ per blade if they pick up and deliver.  

[hacknchop]

I pay $8.00 cdn plus tax 13%=$9.04 still works for me his being 3 miles away is good too.

[Old Greenhorn]

Your math is indisputable Ted, of course, and pretty much what I am thinking, but I like to give new products a good think to see if it makes sense for me. As I said, I am a while out from any purchase, if I even make one, and am thinking if things go really well (which I doubt) I may have the cash put away by next summer and (assuming a major improvement on the virus front) I will take all my spare cash up to Woodsman days in Booneville next August and make my decisions on stuff I can see, touch, feel, and test. Usually they're happy to sell stuff at the end of the show rather than bring it back to the shop. My buddy got a heck of a deal on the demo Slabmizer unit they ran the whole show last year.
 I would LOVE to have a local sharpener (within an hour drive). When I got my mill I asked every sawyer I knew or met in the area who did local sharpening and they all said, 'there is nobody, but if you ever gear up for it, let me know and I'll have you do all my blades'. The heartbreaker for me was when I asked my buddy down the road. He said "aw man! I just sold my LT40 and gave the guy the full WM grinding and setting machines to go with it, I never had time to use them. I would have given them to you and paid you to sharpen my blades." I missed out by 2 weeks. I asked what model he had and he said he didn't know but it was 'the pro version, fully automatic everything' which only narrows it a bit, but that one still stings a little. You know me, old and still learning new things. :D

[YellowHammer]

I played the video in very close zoom in and it appears to me that the sharpener is "supposed" to grind the face and gullet.  I can hear it hit both the face and backside tooth top, with the volume turned up, also.  It does the characteristic "Shiiiik-Shick" of a profile grinder missing the bottom of the gullet by a few thousandths.  The issue, as far as I can see, which was also an issue with my old Cats Claw, was that not only did the cam have to match the profile, but the rock grind did, also.  So as the employee is making adjustments with the dressing wheel, he is making adjustments to the grinding profile, which is probably why he keeps fiddling with it.  I've had to do this very thing hundreds of times.  The way it is configured, after a couple trips around the band, the sharpener will have successfully altered the profile of the tooth and gullet to match the rock grind, and will have a full profile grind from then on.  However, the grind won't be an exact WM grind profile anymore.   

This was one reason I changed to a CBN wheel.  

[Old Greenhorn]

The issue, as far as I can see, which was also an issue with my old Cats Claw, was that not only did the cam have to match the profile, but the rock grind did, also.  So as the employee is making adjustments with the dressing wheel, he is making adjustments to the grinding profile, which is probably why he keeps fiddling with it. 

Yup, I know exactly what you are saying. I started my career half a century ago as an apprentice cutter grinder. In the following decades I learned more about grinding than most people (including me) would ever want to know and even more about cutting tool geometry. For me, that stuff is like riding a bike, but I know most folks don't have that skill. The wheel shape is a primary concern and must be right. CBN is the obvious choice because it removes that skill and knowledge requirement. Not knocking anybody's skill here, but as you allude to, it is both complex and crucial to have correct. It takes years of experience to get that right and understand it, then you throw in the cam movement and it can get very confusing, very quickly. Anybody but a cutter grinder would be really confused, and I would argue that any sawyer that gets it right off is also a cutter grinder. :D.
 I thought this machine was following the profile even if it wasn't grinding the entire surface in the video. You concur with that. I'd be interested to see if anyone stumbles on this thread in 6 months or more and lets us know how the unit they bought is working for them.  WM does not put junk on the market, yes, it is a low price point, but I expect they did their usual good job with it.

[richhiway]

Logosol has a video on youtube demoing that machine.

My thought on it is I would not run the blades as long as I do now and touch them up once or twice, then send them in to resharp for a set and full grind. I have come to see the bands like a chain saw chain. It would be nice to sharpen them before they get too dull.I have learned once they are 3/4 dull it is time to get them off the mill or you are wasting time.The portable machine does not require a dedicated indoor space and it does not look too time consuming to run a few bands through it. Also it would make you more self sufficient in time of blade shortages and slow resharp turn around time.

My reasoning being that I do not have the time to spend setting and sharpening my blades, and it would take forever to get the investment back on all the right tools at the rate I saw.

[Bob Hughes]

Hi
I am looking at the WM BMS25 myself. Have been sawing about 20 years now and always sent my blades away. I have been buying blades at WM for about $22 ea and sending back for resharpening. Have not always been happy about their sharpening and have sent to PE, NC and GA. Unsure why the sharpening seems to change from box to box. I do hit a lot of hardware and nails, as most of my logs come from urban lolgs and clearing projects.

I have found one time use blades for $16 a pop and thinking of getting the Wood Mizer BMS25, sharpening 1 or 2 times and throwing out. If i tear out teeth I will probably just throw out the blade. I go through about 15 blades a week. 

Hard to beat the Woodmizer return shipping $18 going and $25 return.  I have my own ups account and its costing me $42 one way to Jordan Band saw in GA. for a total of $82

Other things come into play, personal time to sharpen etc etc. I am getting older and Son is doing more milling now. Still want to mill but wouldn't mind sharpening.

I would normally go for the better grade of sharpeners but for this purchase may go with the cheaper one. Kinda testing the water first before jumping in.

Just wanting to see what others feel. 

[donbj]

OG, I think if this is what fits your budget and mix that with you mechanical skills and ingenuity, you'll make it work fine. Though I can't see making any money sharpening for others with something like this.

Another option may be to prowl around for an old drag sharpener Woodmizer made. May find one cheap from someone that upgraded. I still have mine and it still works great though you really have to stay on top of grind wheel profile or your blade can change quickly.

[Arcticmiller]

I have been eyeballing the sharpeners and setters out there myself... in my remote corner of the planet wood mixer blades cost me 33.67 apiece to buy and ship to me, shipping them out to have sharpened, set and re-shipped back I would be in it another 20 bucks (apiece). Shipping to and from Bush Alaska sucks. 

Plus a one to two-month turnaround is time I can't necessarily spare during the short milling season. Once I own about 12 dozen blades, I will just buy the automatic equipment and it'll save me the cost of the sharpener within 150 sharpenings.....I think. 

At 2 resharp shippings I would have be $76-77 deep into a blade....so for me the savings adds up fast. I am leaning towards automatic stuff so I can just swap blades out, and not babysit processes.

If I had someone a few miles down the road who did the work for 6-12 bucks a blade, I'd be happy to pay them to do it, but I do not. And I feel less inclined to put 3k/year into sharpening services. Have some biggish (for me) milling projects coming up, and I have to think about this stuff. 

Maybe this situation will help someone feel better about what they pay for sharpening! lol

[tamarackman]

...
When I got my mill I asked every sawyer I knew or met in the area who did local sharpening and they all said, 'there is nobody, but if you ever gear up for it, let me know and I'll have you do all my blades'.
...

You may have stumbled onto a new business opportunity!

[Old Greenhorn]

Well it's nice to see that a thread I began a while ago was worth reviving for a bit. Makes me fell like I might have contributed in a small way.
 Update on my thoughts: the economic side of this discussion brought things into a more clear light for me. I am still finding my way, and part of that means trying almost every option before I make a jump. I just got my first load of re-sharps back from WM this past week and I need to see how they do. So far, a quick turn-around time has not proven to be a critical point for me, if it is, that means I didn't plan very well. ;D
 On the other hand, overall blade costs do factor in more and more as I mill more, but milling is not the only thing I spend lots of time on, unlike many here who mill exclusively (or excessively  :D ). I have not yet been through a full year cycle on my own and I am sure for the next couple of years that cycle will adjust. I had a plan, and some of that is working, and some needs adjustment as I go. It's a learning process and as such, goes slow. Sharpening for others brings in a new form of stress and I am not sure I would want that, but if I made the investment I would at least give that a try to help offset the costs and probably try to focus on doing it in the winter months.
 I believe I am 2 years out from considering a purchase at a more serious level. Need to put some money in the bank first while I continue to decide which parts of the business I want to focus on and put more effort there. I haven't even done a single craft show yet.
 My original post was just wondering if anyone had one of these and how it worked for them. Kind of "ask the man who owns one" sort of thing. We still haven't found that guy yet but perhaps in due time. I asked the same question about the Slabmizer and nobody had one at the time, now there are several out there. Somebody here will buy one and let us know how it works for them.
 

[D6c]

The old '87 WM sharpener I have is 12v but came with a transformer so it could be run on 120v, which is all we ever did.  Without a vehicle running to charge a battery, you would pretty quickly run the battery down to a low voltage condition.
Otherwise the sharpener doesn't look too bad for low volume sharpening.  The one thing that would make it much better would be if a CBN wheel could be found to fit it.  Shaping and reshaping a std wheel can make it difficult to be consistent.

[Resonator]

I am very seriously considering buying one of these machines myself, and like the affordable price. One thing I've learned is if you run a sawmill as a business, you will always need sharp blades. I have enough dull ones stacked up it would be worth it just to get a little more use out of them before their junk. Even if I just use them for logs that likely have iron in them, or to square a cant out of logs that are excessively dirty. That way if I wreck them, it's not damaging a new blade. My main concern is running it off a battery, I would have to find the best way to use household current. Ideally I want to get a full CBN - tooth setter setup, but that's not feasible right now.

[farmfromkansas]

Wonder how the BMS25 compares to the Timberking sharpener?  

[ladylake]

  Timberking uses  110 volt motors.   Steve

[terrifictimbersllc]

If you can get someone to pay $8 per blade for you to sharpen then you only need to sharpen about 150, maybe 200 at the most such blades to justify the up front cost difference between the BMS25 and the BMS250.  

Personally I find it boring but still acceptable,  to have about 1 minute setup and 5-6 minutes wait per blade with the BMS250 and can do a stack of 25 dull 055 x 195" blades with perfect results in 2-3 hours.  Blade sharpening is a chore worse than doing laundry and for that most of us are happy to buy a washing machine and a nicer one if the wife has any say.

[farmfromkansas]

Besides being 110 volt.