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General Forestry => Sawmills and Milling => Topic started by: Stuart Caruk on March 04, 2018, 05:38:38 PM

Title: Live Log deck - Stop loader - Anybody got some pictures?
Post by: Stuart Caruk on March 04, 2018, 05:38:38 PM
When I set up my LX35 I didn't want to risk dropping logs onto the mill from my log loader, so I built a live log deck with hydraulic feed to move the logs towards my mill. I'd set the logs on the deck and let the hydraulics slide them towards my mill, where they would roll / drop onto the stock loader arms.

Turns out that my new LX450 is set up higher than my log deck, and the loader arms are really to close together to support my typical 21' logs. So I figure I may as well add a stop loader to singulate the logs, and lift them up to roll them onto the mill. What I don't know is how steep a slope I need for the logs to roll onto the mill. I'm guessing 4" of drop in about 4', but I'd love to see pictures, or ideas from people that have enough experience. I know flat won't work, because I'm far to lazy to roll huge logs by hand. On the flip side, I don't want the angle to be so steep that the logs roll too fast and risk bending the backstops or tweaking the mill from the impact.

Any ideas?

Thanks,

Stu
Title: Re: Live Log deck - Stop loader - Anybody got some pictures?
Post by: Kbeitz on March 04, 2018, 07:19:57 PM
My choice would be no drop. 
Title: Re: Live Log deck - Stop loader - Anybody got some pictures?
Post by: Jeff on March 04, 2018, 07:25:07 PM
No drop here to.
Title: Re: Live Log deck - Stop loader - Anybody got some pictures?
Post by: Stuart Caruk on March 04, 2018, 07:53:44 PM
Maybe I didn't explain that right... I don't want to "drop" the logs onto my mill deck, I'd prefer to roll them on, down a slight ramp. I certainly don't want to drop them 4" onto the deck. I could do that good with my log loader (usually)...

They say a picture is worth a thousand words, so lets try this...

(http://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38226/lx450_loader_ramp_angle.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1520210845)

In this drawing, my log deck is to the left. I already know that it does no good to have a flat ramp, because when I need to roll these large logs with a can't hook, I often can't do it alone. I'll need to raise them at least 2" just to hit level with my existing mill deck, and adding a greater slope would let the logs roll by themselves. I simply don't want them to go too fast. I think it would be easier for me to restrain the log, than to have to manipulate it by hand.

Title: Re: Live Log deck - Stop loader - Anybody got some pictures?
Post by: Kbeitz on March 04, 2018, 07:56:16 PM
My choice is still no drop.. They should roll easy on the flat...
Title: Re: Live Log deck - Stop loader - Anybody got some pictures?
Post by: moodnacreek on March 04, 2018, 08:03:43 PM
You could go to Mellot  or meadows web sites and look at theirs.
Title: Re: Live Log deck - Stop loader - Anybody got some pictures?
Post by: Jeff on March 04, 2018, 08:09:20 PM
As I remember ours, your deck needs to be high enough that the logs will roll out of your stop unloaded in the deployed position. In your diagram your live deck is lower than your mill. It should be just higher and the stop unloader rolls the log down on to the mill.  
Title: Re: Live Log deck - Stop loader - Anybody got some pictures?
Post by: Stuart Caruk on March 04, 2018, 08:37:23 PM
Most of my logs are large, and butt logs with at least a small amount of sweep, and I know for a fact that they will not roll easily on a flat deck. I blew out the hydraulic motor that drives the log deck (O/K, to be fair I installed a used pneumatic motor/gearbox combo that I thought was hydraulic...) I had to roll the logs by hand. Usually it took 2 stout guys to get the log to a point where the loader arms from my mill could grab it.

One of the purposes of the stop/loader arms in my case is to raise the log up from the deck. That's easier than modifying the deck by a long shot. It's just a matter of throwing the plate on the cutting table and whacking it up.

I like Jeff's idea of rolling the log onto the mill, which is what I'm trying to achieve. I think it's time to go visit Woodmizer and pay closer attention to how high the standard log loader lifts a log before it rolls onto the deck.

Thanks for the input.
Title: Re: Live Log deck - Stop loader - Anybody got some pictures?
Post by: Percy on March 04, 2018, 08:40:25 PM
Iím thinking maybe a slight drop. The log is gonna get some inertia from your rotation thing or provided you have enough hydraulic hormones.   I need a setup
Like this badly   Iíll be watching closely how you make out. 
Title: Re: Live Log deck - Stop loader - Anybody got some pictures?
Post by: Ron Wenrich on March 04, 2018, 10:10:01 PM
Here's what our log deck looked like going to our debarker.  It has the same type of stop-n-loader sort of what you're describing.  

(http://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/10011/debarker1.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1520218911)

Ours had a higher side on the unloading side, where yours is using a the long side on the deck side.  

Why can't you raise your deck?  You're not going to be able to unload uphill.  
Title: Re: Live Log deck - Stop loader - Anybody got some pictures?
Post by: FloridaMike on March 04, 2018, 10:29:07 PM
Are you also going to need a hydraulic stop on the log deck to keep the next up log from rolling into the return path (jamming it) of the half moon loader?
Title: Re: Live Log deck - Stop loader - Anybody got some pictures?
Post by: Stuart Caruk on March 05, 2018, 02:07:50 AM
Yes, my log deck is lower than my mill, but if you look at the geometry of the stop loader arms, they lift the log as it rotates, which will accomodate the change in height. 

Thanks for the photo of the stop loader, going to the debarker. One of those would sure be handy. My log deck always seems to have huge piles of bark around it that fall off the logs.

I'm going to spend a few hours visiting a couple operations tomorrow and checking before cutting the rest of my parts.
Title: Re: Live Log deck - Stop loader - Anybody got some pictures?
Post by: tmbrcruiser on March 05, 2018, 06:57:53 AM
I built a dead deck with slope and hydraulic feed arms. Not sure how much drop but 4" in 4' sounds about right. I'll measure the drop and post some pictures. Logs come off my arms smoothly most of the time or sometime need a little help from the cant hook. There are some pictures in my gallery.
Title: Re: Live Log deck - Stop loader - Anybody got some pictures?
Post by: Stuart Caruk on March 22, 2018, 08:40:53 PM
Well, I finally got around to putting this together, and left room to cut away material if I wanted a shallower ramp, or ad a wedge if I need to have more drop so the ramp is steeper. Here's where the loader arms sit waiting for a log.

(http://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38226/20180313_164349.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1521011388)

This is about where they lift the log up off the infeed roller chains.

(http://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38226/20180313_164406.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1521011398)


And this is the furthest they can go. In the picture I temporarily placed little 1 1/2" tall x 1" aluminum block to make sure the arms can't hit, and mar my rails. I'll most likely replace these with steel blocks that will be welded to the arms. They will rest on the bed rails at  the maximum stroke of the cylinders.

For now, they are powered by a hydraulic box from an LT40 that a friend had kicking around in his barn for several years. I thought it would be ridiculously slow, but it works just about right.

(http://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38226/20180313_164458.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1521011821)

So how does it work? Fantastic! Small logs barely want to roll down the arms onto the deck. 24" logs get just enough oomph to roll to the middle of the bed and stop. 36" logs roll to the side stops with a gentle thud. I can raise the log clamp to slow them down earlier if I want. I need to experiment. I stuck a 42" diameter Doug Fir 22' long onto the log deck. My tracked Bobcat wouldn't touch it, but it was childs play for the Barko. I couldn't roll it by hand on the log deck with my Can't hook, but the chains just steadily pulled it into the loader arms, and up and onto the mill it went. Even at 42" there was still plenty of room on the mill to turn it into a big cant. It's now going to be one of 2 long logs I plan to use as a dead log deck beside my live log deck to get 40' logs onto this mill, and help support one end of a bent that I will build on my mill extension.

Thanks for all the help. And thanks Derrick for the pump!


Title: Re: Live Log deck - Stop loader - Anybody got some pictures?
Post by: Dave Shepard on March 22, 2018, 09:49:23 PM
I was thinking of making a low deck for my LT40, basically on the ground. There would be no stop loader, you would just raise the log with the WM loader.
Title: Re: Live Log deck - Stop loader - Anybody got some pictures?
Post by: JB Griffin on March 22, 2018, 10:30:48 PM
I was thinking of making a low deck for my LT40, basically on the ground. There would be no stop loader, you would just raise the log with the WM loader.


That is pretty much what I plan to do. 6x8 or maybe 6x10 wo timbers with channel iron bolted to it hyd motor and 100 or 120 pitch chain.
Title: Re: Live Log deck - Stop loader - Anybody got some pictures?
Post by: starmac on March 22, 2018, 10:41:39 PM
I do that now, except not a live deck and it works well, but some of those biguns can't be picked up with the loader, and he saws biguns pretty regular.