Going door to door and administering the vaccine

[Southside]

So the science is just going to ignore the Israeli report on how acquired immunity is actually more effective at beating the Delta vareint than the vaccine? 

Immunity is immunity, but that is being ignored. 

[sawguy21]

Are you suggesting we all risk getting infected to build herd immunity?

[21incher]

I suspect somebody is using the media to spread conspiracy theories, that sounds like fake news to me. You have the right to refuse the vaccine but you assume the responsibility. You don't have the right to risk infecting me or others to protect your perception of individual rights, I have the right to expect reasonable protection from you.  

This was real news with high level air force members questioning it. Socialists only believe what the government approves but free people look at all sides.

[Mooseherder]

And if we don't behave they'll release another biological weapon to make sure of it.

[Southside]

What I am saying is that there is no need for everyone to get the gene therapy in order for everyone to be safe.

If one already has acquired immunity then they are the same threat to others, perhaps less even, than those who took the shot. So why do they need to be administered the shot in addition? 

[Larry]

I'll be completely frank to say that I'm one of those that will never get this vaccine.

Do you wear a mask or take any precautions to insure you do not spread the disease?

[doctorb]

Easy answer, Southside.  You are probably correct about immunity, whether acquired naturally or by vaccine, and wondering which type of immunity is better is pretty meaningless.  The problem is that there are many areas of the country that have a significant percentage of people that have not acquired either. Until we have a high enough percentage of the population immune to Covid, regardless of the mechanism it was obtained, those subgroups within our population remain at risk.  We won't have another surge like we had in March of 2020 or last winter.  But lives will be needlessly lost to this disease that we now can, for the most part, prevent, or at worst diminish.

And, natural immunity and vaccine produced immunity often have a limited shelf life.  The common cold has taught us this year after year.  So the more disease we let hang around, the more we can expect a future resurgence of Covid in those we believe are currently protected.  

I don't know if much antibody testing is being done these days to see if you have been previously infected.  You simply don't hear much about it anymore. We still have much to learn.  How long immunity lasts is a big question.  Until that gets answered, I believe the experts will over treat those that have been previously infected by offering a vaccine shot months later and those that have been vaccinated will be offered a booster shot.  This is the exact mindset why President Trump was given the vaccine a few months after his infection.

[Paul_H]

Yankees-Red Sox ppd after 3 NY pitchers test COVID positive (apnews.com)

Cashman said all three were fully vaccinated, as are most of the players on the team. Among the three, two received the Johnson & Johnson vaccine, and the other was either Pfizer or Moderna, according to Cashman.

"The vaccines that we encourage everybody to get guarantee not getting hospitalized and not getting death coming from COVID, which is important, but it doesn't prevent you from contracting COVID," Cashman said. "It just obviously protects you from the severe worst-case scenario effects from COVID."

In Feb 2020 through April we were without any PPE except soap and water, no masks or hand sanitizer because it was unavailable although we looked high and low. Our industry was essential and our staff was given the choice to work or stay away until they felt comfortable. All chose to remain at work. Some in our town including a town councilor got covid although we never hear until two weeks later so we are darn sure we've been exposed last summer.
It seems the virus like the flu it replaced attacks the vulnerable and though we don't want to pass it on, people need people to remain at their posts to keep the supply chains open such as food, medicine, petroleum and everyday items.
Many I know have taken the vac and we respect that but I find it despicable to hear some hope that the ones that decline are taken out by nature. There is not an ounce of love at the heart of those thoughts only pure hatred.
I understand now why Shakespeare found mobs so vile.

[21incher]

LA county just reinstated the mask mandate for everyone  vaccinated or not in public places. Apparently the officials don't  have confidence in the vaccine. This really  sends out a good message.  

[Southside]

Doctorb - to me it seems the intentional overtreatement without any antibody testing creates un-necessary risk to the recipient.  We threw $50 billion at this just as a down-payment, I think testing would not be an unreasonable procedure, and could create interest in receiving the treatment if people honestly believed they were vulnerable.  

The official message going out now would give North Korean propaganda run for it's money.  

[Ianab]

The official message going out now would give North Korean propaganda run for it's money. 

Have you thought about who's actually promoting the anti-vaccine doubt in the US?

There are interests out there that would love to see the US disrupted by another 12 months of pandemic. Pushing some misinformation out on the internet is a very cheap and low risk sort of attack. Plant the seeds and let the social media distribute it. Next thing you have people fearing the "Vaccine Police" will start kicking in their door. 

BTW, the country of Niue has just completed it's vaccine program with 97% of the eligible population receiving the Pfizer shots, with no serious problems. OK, that's only ~2,000 people, but when you live on an Island that doesn't even have a respirator at the "hospital", keeping the virus out is kind of a priority. 

[Southside]

So the Russians implemented the two tier PCR procedure for testing that's in effect now? The one where un vaccinated tests are replicated more? 

Or is it the Chinese that are saying to ignore acquired immunity? 

Maybe it was an infiltration team from Castro that filmed themselves with the media force vaccinating non consenting residential home patients.

No Putin is personally asking to read text messages to dispel any non approved vaccine messages. 

Naa, I think the administration is doing a fine job on their own of creating doubt. 

[bannerd]

There is a huge difference between vaccine immunity and natural immunity. 

Natural Immunity:

When a wild natural virus attacks your cells there is a chance it can infect a cell without our immune system even knowing.  The wild virus has the ability to turn that cell into a weapons factory which then explodes that cells and causes complete chaos in the body.  At this point you will know it by a fever, feeling tired, yada yada.   It's at this point your body is in a war and if you win this war it stores this information in memory cells (M-cells).  If another virus comes along your body has built this ability and knows this war tactic.  For moms and wild life this is crucial because some of these do pass to the young.  If it's worth passing then that is how it happens and that is how life evolves itself.  With a statistic of a 98 or 99% survival rate from covid I do not believe mom will pass this to their young.  It will be some other virus she landed in her life that her body thought was harmful.

Vaccine Immunity:

When you take a vaccine such as measles you might not get this experience.  Typically there is a adjuvant in the vaccine that does cell damage and causes an immune response.  This can go one or two ways... white cells come into the area and give it an effective percentage number.  Sometimes the immune system forms to the adjuvant and just leaves the broke virus there.  Sometimes it learns about the broken virus and this you now have immunity from it.  With vaccines there is an issue;

• How long does immunity last after your immune system agrees
• Everyone is different, how does the body react to it
• Diet and vaccine immunity 

The human genome project estimates a typical vaccinated person has strains just floating because it did not harm the body and it's unsure what to do with it.

Most moms coming into the hospital and before birth are titre tested against common viruses.  95% of them are not immuned anymore and are given the choice to vaccinate again.  The hope is mom is protected and that mom can pass this onto the baby.  Keep in mind that there are "ingredients" in them that will be in mom as well as baby. 

As a human species we will not be able to sustain all the bacteria and viruses out there, logically we live with over millions of deadly viruses... we cannot administer those vaccines nor give the resources to cover them all.  It's not just humans.. other animals are fighting the fight from viruses.  Even bacteria has to fight this fight at such a small level.  Some fox out in the woods who contracted some killer virus and beat it could have saved man kind?  True.

Those that farm and have live stock know first hand about this and are the first to know greatly about life and death.  Not a day goes by where animals do get sick, some farmers lose.. some win.  I know I've spent many nights awake making sure live stock escapes death.  I've been very successful with therapeutics (knock on wood).

[21incher]

Well yesterday at the press conference the white house  stated they were telling Facebook what posts to remove. Any posts about side effects  are for some reason being censored now from the top. Then the WHO made a statement  they were told to ignore the Wuhan lab theory.  Faucchi lied about  his involvement  with Whuan also but now we see he was funding Corona virus studies and was the one that signed the checks. This could  have been contained earlier as top officials  knew exactly what was going on. This virus has padded the pockets of many. Great way to get people to trust a vaccine.

[doctorb]

Let's keep this as apolitical as possible.  It's an informative discussion.

[21incher]

Let's keep this as apolitical as possible.  It's an informative discussion.

So let's call the facts coming  out that are driving many away from the vaccine so we don't  have to discuss the  real issues political and try to hide  them. Destroying  free speech to hide facts is not what America should  be enduring right now.
Go back to last fall and watch some of the videos of Biden and Harris saying  they don't  trust the vaccine because  of who was in charge of it. My grandson heard the same story on one of his shows about not trusting the vaccine.  It's  definitely another big reason for rejection of it. Politicians,  Celebrities,  and News reporters also deserve part of the blame that door to door visits won't  overcome. 

[doc henderson]

lots of info here.  the antibodies moms pass via the placenta to offspring are made of protein, and last about 5 months in humans, and do not give them long term immunity.  the children have to go on and get the basic infections and develop their own immunity.  I tell parents their children need to get about 100 viruses between the age of 5 months and 5 years.  some infections cross immunize with other related viruses.  there are 104 types of strep, but you prob. only need to get 12 or so and cover the bases.  My kids never had an antibiotic for strep and did just fine.  If you treat on the first day of an infection like strep, you prob. also get less immunity and will get more types of strep.  antibiotics treat bacterial infection.  The immunity for viruses use antibodies to identify the cells infected, or to coat the attachment spike so it cannot attach.  viral infection takes over a cell and its reproductive equipment.  your own immune system destroys that cell to stop reproduction.  It is seen as foreign.  If you get the infection, you prob. develop hundred of different antibodies to help identify and protect you from that virus.  the vaccines tend to be specific to some important part of identifier of that virus.  yes, getting repeated infections improves the immunity.  I was sick for 6 weeks when I started in pediatrics.  all viruses I had as a kid.  so getting an immunization after an infection mimics this natural phenomenon.  as well after immunization, you can get the viral infection and this also builds on the immunity started by the shot.  and you are less like to die or get very sick.  you are probably less contagious as you never develop the viral load that a viral naïve person would get.  After you are immune to a virus, the antibody level does not directly relate to the level of ongoing immunity.  Lymphocytes do the heavy lifting regarding viral infection.  b lymphocytes make antibodies.  there are killer cells and memory cells.  very complex.  low levels of antibodies survey for the infection they were made for.  then quickly increase and alert the body when it contacts an antigen that it fits.  that is where you can get unintended consequences like attacking other organs.  it is prob. immunity to a virus that causes your (usually kids) body to attack your pancreas and causes type 1 diabetes.  All the inflammation from a vaccine or infection is from you immune system attacking and disrupting the structure of viruses and bacteria.  It will likely take out the infected cells as well.  

[doc henderson]

the mask thing is political.  hard to tell who has the vaccine and who does not.  the mitigation works as we have discussed as we had a very low season for influenza and RSV.  even if it did not help slow the covid virus, we made it through a very busy time since we did not have to deal with people sick from these other viruses.  there is a risk to any good medication.  I could give you a glass of water and tell you it good for you (and it is, water is lifesaving, try to go without it for a week) and has no side effects, but it does not cure cancer.  too much water can be deadly if it lowers you sodium, or causes congestive heart failure, or if you drown in it.  So if you explore the extremes all kinds of things can be said.  The government should be trying to look at the country and world as a whole and trying to save as many as possible.  If the mortality of the virus was more like Ebola say 100%, and the vaccine mortality was 1% but effective, we would all get the vaccine if there was a prevalence of the disease.  If the mortality of the disease was 1%, and the mortality of a vaccine was 0.001% the government would want you to take it.  you might say you do not want it due to the mortality.  there is no guarantee, that the person who dies of the vaccine would have also otherwise died of the disease.  The goal of the vaccine was to shut this down.  the mitigation including masks, was to slow things down pre-vaccine so the hospital could cope.  the pattern of infection is to hit a part of the country all at once.  we had to do things we would have otherwise never done to get through this.  Lets hope the worst is over.  in 10 years we will know all about this virus, and hopefully will no longer care.  We still have a mask mandate in the hospital.  I have developed a contact dermatitis to the masks.  no one can see it cause I wear a mask at work.  

[bannerd]

I also want to add antibodies and breast milk.. very important.  Few years ago it was unheard of that a cell so big as a macrophage could cross into an infants body through breast milk.  This hybridization now days is known and with it carries many unknowns.  With macrophages entering a body you now have a processor.  Not only a processor but a carrier..

About ten years ago I knew a doctor that did research in breast milk(20 years).  He no longer studies but he did say.."it is amazing what a female can do.. more amazing what many could do".

There is a lot of good information here and I will tell you hands down.. it's not something you can figure out OR talk about in a day.  Is a doctor going to write you a slip for your natural immunity even when you're producing antibodies.  Nope.  Is that natural immunity going to get you a hot ticket to France or Canada.. nope.  Nature is very complex but I hope doc henderson is right and this thing is short lived.  Otherwise we will be very divided.

P.S. I put no trespassing signs on my land.. I think that should keep them away for now.

[doc henderson]

most of the antibodies in breast milk are IgA, and protect surfaces and do not go systemic.  Most of that is early and in the colostrum.  yes breast milk is good.  lots of research being done.  You always have to use caution if a life long researcher makes conclusions first and spend a lifetime trying to prove it vs the other way around.  I am not saying about your doc, but there are many things touted about breast milk that are vastly overstated.  usually nature has it figured out long before we do.  

[Paul_H]

Nearly 11,000 Deaths After COVID Vaccines Reported to CDC, as FDA Adds New Warning to J&J Vaccine • Children's Health Defense (childrenshealthdefense.org)

Data released today by the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) included 463,457 reports of injuries and deaths, across all age groups, following COVID vaccines — an increase of more than 25,000 compared with the previous week.

[doc henderson]

Paul the numbers do not seem right at all.  if you read about the information it is not from the CDC, but the defender sighting the "national vaccine information center" all appear to be anti vax propaganda.  The wording is not accurate and designed to make it sound terrible.  a reported adverse event, is even a little pain at the injection site, not an injury.  they throw in the phrases FDA and CDC to make it look good.  each article is designed to scare people.

[SwampDonkey]

US COVID-19 cases climb steadily all week | CIDRAP

"becoming a pandemic of the unvaccinated" (CDC) Director Rochelle Walensky, MD, MPH.

" Pfizer and BioNTech announced that the Food and Drug Administration (FDA) has granted priority review designation as they apply for full approval for their COVID-19 vaccine in those 16 and older. The goal date for an FDA decision is January 2022.
Expected to come around the same time (early to midwinter) is an agency decision on whether both the Pfizer and the Moderna vaccines will receive emergency-use authorization (EUA) for children under 12, NBC News reports. Results from trials by both companies are expected in the fall."

"White House public health leaders are continuing their call for vaccinations. During the briefing, the speakers re-emphasized that almost all COVID-19 hospitalizations and deaths in the country are in unvaccinated people, with Fauci highlighting UK and Israeli data indicating that vaccinations drastically help curb the impact of COVID-19, including the Delta (B1617.2) variant."

"Data show 388,738,495 COVID-19 vaccine doses have been delivered and 336,054,953 have been administered in the country, with 160,408,538 Americans fully vaccinated."

I get my second Pfizer shot next Friday.

Dr. Osterholm Podcast
https://open.spotify.com/show/0ymlroFYVlSAnoq0uqECGx

[HemlockKing]

US COVID-19 cases climb steadily all week | CIDRAP

"becoming a pandemic of the unvaccinated" (CDC) Director Rochelle Walensky, MD, MPH.

" Pfizer and BioNTech announced that the Food and Drug Administration (FDA) has granted priority review designation as they apply for full approval for their COVID-19 vaccine in those 16 and older. The goal date for an FDA decision is January 2022.
Expected to come around the same time (early to midwinter) is an agency decision on whether both the Pfizer and the Moderna vaccines will receive emergency-use authorization (EUA) for children under 12, NBC News reports. Results from trials by both companies are expected in the fall."

"White House public health leaders are continuing their call for vaccinations. During the briefing, the speakers re-emphasized that almost all COVID-19 hospitalizations and deaths in the country are in unvaccinated people, with Fauci highlighting UK and Israeli data indicating that vaccinations drastically help curb the impact of COVID-19, including the Delta (B1617.2) variant."

"Data show 388,738,495 COVID-19 vaccine doses have been delivered and 336,054,953 have been administered in the country, with 160,408,538 Americans fully vaccinated."

I get my second Pfizer shot next Friday.

Dr. Osterholm Podcast
https://open.spotify.com/show/0ymlroFYVlSAnoq0uqECGx

Fear mongering. Pandemic is over wether they want to let go of emergency powers or not. I just don't understand how it could still spread rampant with 70%+ vaccinated, it won't, so even the unvaccinated will be fine so long they don't go around licking every gas pump and door handle, and even if they did get it why does it matter to a vaccinated person? Time for things to go back to normal. Of course my habits will be altered life after COVID now, I won't be going out in public using doors, pumps, debits machines without washing my hands especially in flu season. It's been nice not having been sick for 1.5 yr

[HemlockKing]

Media is grasping onto anything too, after a long 1.5 year of news worthy and catchy headlines/crazy things happening, life is getting more normal again and they aren't getting big spotlight like they were.