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Started by doc henderson, March 06, 2022, 01:58:53 PM

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Magicman

Quote from: Southside on March 19, 2022, 10:33:23 PM2,4-D (Agent Orange)
Actually Agent Orange was a mixture of equal parts of 2,4,5-T and 2,4-D.  Agent Orange  It's my understanding that the 2,4,5-T portion was the "man killer".
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Never allow your "need" to make money to exceed your "desire" to provide quality service.....The Magicman

Southside

You are correct, I should have said "Base Ingredient to Agent Orange"  It's still nasty, nasty, stuff and will kill fields that it drifts onto or volatilizes and condenses back a long way away.  
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wisconsitom

Yes and the 2,4,5,T was contaminated by dioxin, one of the worst toxins known.  There were ,2 methods to make the stuff, one with dioxin contaminants, but a faster process, and a slower one that yielded a cleaner product.

Guess which one the US military and the Kennedy administration pushed?
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Magicman

And to think that during the mid-50's we regularly used 2,4,5-T to spray fence rows on the farm.  The real stuff, not diluted.

Fences kept the cows in, which made steaks,  digin_2  so now we are back on topic.   :D
Knothole Sawmill, LLC     '98 Wood-Mizer LT40SuperHydraulic   WM Million BF Club Member   WM Pro Sawyer Network

It's Weird being the Same Age as Old People

Never allow your "need" to make money to exceed your "desire" to provide quality service.....The Magicman

Corley5

I used 2-4-D to control spotted knapweed in grass hay meadows.  I never liked it, but it worked.  I quit when I put in grapes and quit hay shortly thereafter.  Grapes are ultra-sensitive to 2-4-D.  More than one vineyard has been damaged by drift from highway crews spraying nearby right of ways.
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wisconsitom

USFS used many tons of the stuff, up into the 1970s I believe.  Silvex ring a bell?  Some such name.  But again, some preps were better than others.
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kantuckid

Quote from: sawguy21 on March 19, 2022, 10:23:34 PM
As far as as I am concerned this whole organic thing is a joke. I won't pay a premium for a product where all the bugs and diseases haven't been killed. There are NO scientific studies showing that it has any benefit, it is a marketing ploy. There, my rant for the day, stay tuned for further developments ;D
The organic label is a mixed bag thing health wise IMO. As but one e.g. I ran into recently, a California date grower I'd bought from and asked if he had other varieties I wasn't seeing on fleabay-he told me that he & his wife were seniors who'd been growing over 40 varieties of dates for a long time on small acreage. He went on to say that while none of their dates were "organic" officially per the government, they had always grown organically with a passion. I've read that the fines are huge for using the label wrongly.  His small operation the certification costs exceeded $4,000 annually and much paperwork & time, but the actual growing practices would be the same either way in their situ. There are a number of foods that are commonly grown organically but not certified as such. 
IMO, it's not a joke when were talking safe use of pesticides beyond what's being done with certain production practices that are borderline safe-very huge subject here, too large to cover in a forestry food thread. Factors beyond just yer stomach here as the soil benefits immensely to grow organic.  
I knew a Thayer man in Waubaunsee Co, KS years ago who decided to try the organic grain business to make more off his land. It required that land area laying fallow for "X" number of years, so a huge investment it was to be non-productive all that time. I've long forgot how that all came out.  
Organic bananas in recent months cost the exact same as the non ones. Wife lives on bananas & JIF so she goes for the one that looks best. I mostly don't bother with organic as a choice over regular fruit & veggies. Same for meat where I buy what I want and if the chicken was free range and similar price I'll lean that way. Moreso I buy dated meats on bargain tags. Cooked 4 large pkgs of pork rib tips this week, grilled on charcoal, then slow baked in oven wrapped in foil with lots of dry rub marinade brushed on.  
 
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kantuckid

Quote from: Corley5 on March 20, 2022, 10:14:46 AM
I used 2-4-D to control spotted knapweed in grass hay meadows.  I never liked it, but it worked.  I quit when I put in grapes and quit hay shortly thereafter.  Grapes are ultra-sensitive to 2-4-D.  More than one vineyard has been damaged by drift from highway crews spraying nearby right of ways.
I have my land listed with our electric co-op as a no spray zone. Mostly for us, it involves the 1/2 acre where our power comes up a slope. I see unruly spraying often just driving down the road-meaning streams where they're not supposed to spray.
Lots of farm based meats on FB Marketplace in my area, prices are mostly better than regular retail too. Issue for us is we don't eat enough meat to throw out $150-300 or more, for a big pkg., like they sell.  
Kan=Kansas;tuck=Kentucky;kid=what I'm not

SwampDonkey

Neighbor here sells online on Facebook, but not organic. He's 'natural', so forgoes all the certs and gets same results and premium prices. As long as the public see's no distinction from the labelling, they'll buy into it, hook line and sinker. He tried the certified gig, and then dropped it, figured why pay them and still get the sales and pricing. :D

We actually buy meat from other farmers, better meat, cut right (not a hack job), and way better price. Grass fed to. Trust me, neighor as never had any training in cutting meat. Like the untrained 'sawyer' cut thick on one end and thin the other. ;)
"No amount of belief makes something a fact." James Randi

1 Thessalonians 5:21

2020 Polaris Ranger 570 to forward firewood, Husqvarna 555 XT Pro, Stihl FS560 clearing saw and continuously thinning my ground, on the side. Grow them trees. (((o)))

kantuckid

When we buy from the grower at farmers markets, we have mostly easy knowledge of what practices they use. I ask them and know them too. Steaks I always eat at home, mostly going for seafood away from home or Mexican-but we do both of those at home too. Pizza-Hard to get a good one lately!!! I think most could make me a good one-IF THEY WOULD! ::)
Kan=Kansas;tuck=Kentucky;kid=what I'm not

Raider Bill

Quote from: kantuckid on March 22, 2022, 09:33:52 AM
When we buy from the grower at farmers markets, we have mostly easy knowledge of what practices they use. I ask them and know them too. Steaks I always eat at home, mostly going for seafood away from home or Mexican-but we do both of those at home too. Pizza-Hard to get a good one lately!!! I think most could make me a good one-IF THEY WOULD! ::)
The only time we get a steak out is at a seafood joint. lol GF doesn't eat seafood but loves her beef.

The First 70 years of childhood is always the hardest.

sawguy21

That would be a tough call, I love a good steak too but fresh seafood, oh boy!
old age and treachery will always overcome youth and enthusiasm

Raider Bill

Quote from: sawguy21 on March 22, 2022, 02:42:56 PM
That would be a tough call, I love a good steak too but fresh seafood, oh boy!
Seafood for me and pizza are why we go out.
living on the gulf coast we have world class fishys to eat. Lol
The First 70 years of childhood is always the hardest.

SwampDonkey

The biggest plate of seafood I ever saw was on the west coast, off the mainland though, on an Island in the middle of Haida Gwaii. Every fish imaginable on there, no way you could eat it all.
"No amount of belief makes something a fact." James Randi

1 Thessalonians 5:21

2020 Polaris Ranger 570 to forward firewood, Husqvarna 555 XT Pro, Stihl FS560 clearing saw and continuously thinning my ground, on the side. Grow them trees. (((o)))

sawguy21

Those west coaters know how to eat! Fresh seafood is scarce here in the interior and DanG expensive but oh my goodness what a feast. 8)
old age and treachery will always overcome youth and enthusiasm

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