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Hudson 330Pro Setup

Started by etd66ss, June 17, 2022, 06:20:49 AM

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etd66ss

I'm making some progress on my sawmill bed:



 


 


 

The posts are 42" below grade, with about 2ft of mixed quickcrete at the bottom of each post, backfilled the rest of the way with soil.

For a mill with a 33" dia log capacity, what is the optimal bunk height from grade? I'll use a water level to trim the posts before continuing the build.

I find that my lower back doesn't like a lot of partial bending over, so a higher working height is better. I'm 6ft tall.

Also, to cut the 6x6 beams out of utility poles, I need to temporarily setup the mill. Think I can just set the bed frames on top of the leveled and trimmed post tops to do this?

The Hudson track frames have no holes in the bottom of the angle for lagging into place. For other Hudson owners, did you just drill holes in the frame or is there a better method? I don't think the heads of the lag bolts will be an issue for anything other than cleaning out sawdust.

Also, what is the best method for leveling the track? Lets say I get the 6x6's perfectly level, but then after a freeze/thaw cycle the bed could be out of level a bit if some of the posts settle. The Hudson track does not come with leveling feet. Do I go through the trouble do make up leveling feet, or do I just lag to the 6x6's and use shims? Not a fan of the shim idea tbh...


Walnut Beast

Nice looking area for your setup 👍

Old Greenhorn

What is the distance between your posts? Looks like longer than a track length and at any rate the Hodson track will not like open spans. You have to get something under it to stiffen it up. Consider setting 6x6's right on the ground and leveling that up for your temporary setup. Maybe with some patio blocks under it for ease of leveling.
I drilled holes in the middle of my track flanges and used 5/8" bolts with washers. It all cleans out easy when I use a blower on the mill at the end of the day. You will likely want 3 screws along each rail section side. I used lags, but they need checked every few months. On your setup. I would go through the 6x6 with a bolt anyplace you can. This is needed to get the rigidity, at least it was for me. For fine leveling I used the plastic door/window shims on the sides of each tie-down bolt. You don't want shims between the bolts, you want them right under the bolts. The plastic shims worked fine, they don't rot or shrink and you can trim off the extra with a knife when you are done.

As for bed height, for me it would depend on how you are loading logs. Are you using a machine, parbuckling, or hand rolling? Are you building a log deck? Mine is as low as I could get it, basically right on the ground (I am 6' also). There are times I wish I had access from underneath, as you will, for a toeboard lift and cleaning, etc. But I manually roll each log up, so the closer to the ground the better. Yes, picking those last couple of boards off the bed is a pain. But rolling logs while making a cant can be tougher if the bed is too high, so give that a little thought for your situation.

Just about any choice you make will work. You will find reasons later why you should have done something different. That's how we learn. Just think it through and make your best guess choice. With those posts you are off to a great start! When I first saw the photo I thought "my gosh, this fella is building a dock in the middle of a field." :D :)
Tom Lindtveit, Woodsman Forest Products
Oscar 328 Band Mill, Husky 350, 450, 562, & 372 (Clone), Mule 3010, and too many hand tools. :) Retired and trying to make a living to stay that way. NYLT Certified.
OK, maybe I'm the woodcutter now.
I work with wood, There is a rumor I might be a woodworker.

Cornerstone

Looks like a well thought out and designed plan. Beautiful area also! I don't have a lot of experience yet but what I do know I can share. I hear ya on the bending halfway over issue, that'll make my back scream at me before the work is done. With a fixed mill, I think I would want the track height to be about a foot off the ground, and have a log deck that gently slopes up so rolling them on isn't too bad. My mill currently is designed to be portable, so it has an axle and wheels. The track height is right at knee level, which stepping into it to set the dogs is definitely a work out. I feel like I'm high stepping all the time. Often because I get tired my foot will hang up as I step in or out. If I were to make it a permanent track I would lower it.
Case 580SK backhoe, New Holland L228 skid steer, Kubota 900rtv, Home made band mill, 1968 Chevy C50 Dump Truck, 1972 C10, 2009 Dodge Ram 3500 4X4 dually, all sorts of motorcycles.
Ephesians 3: 17-21

etd66ss

Quote from: Old Greenhorn on June 17, 2022, 07:21:07 AM
What is the distance between your posts? Looks like longer than a track length and at any rate the Hodson track will not like open spans. You have to get something under it to stiffen it up. Consider setting 6x6's right on the ground and leveling that up for your temporary setup. Maybe with some patio blocks under it for ease of leveling.
I drilled holes in the middle of my track flanges and used 5/8" bolts with washers. It all cleans out easy when I use a blower on the mill at the end of the day. You will likely want 3 screws along each rail section side. I used lags, but they need checked every few months. On your setup. I would go through the 6x6 with a bolt anyplace you can. This is needed to get the rigidity, at least it was for me. For fine leveling I used the plastic door/window shims on the sides of each tie-down bolt. You don't want shims between the bolts, you want them right under the bolts. The plastic shims worked fine, they don't rot or shrink and you can trim off the extra with a knife when you are done.

As for bed height, for me it would depend on how you are loading logs. Are you using a machine, parbuckling, or hand rolling? Are you building a log deck? Mine is as low as I could get it, basically right on the ground (I am 6' also). There are times I wish I had access from underneath, as you will, for a toeboard lift and cleaning, etc. But I manually roll each log up, so the closer to the ground the better. Yes, picking those last couple of boards off the bed is a pain. But rolling logs while making a cant can be tougher if the bed is too high, so give that a little thought for your situation.

Just about any choice you make will work. You will find reasons later why you should have done something different. That's how we learn. Just think it through and make your best guess choice. With those posts you are off to a great start! When I first saw the photo I thought "my gosh, this fella is building a dock in the middle of a field." :D :)
So, for the distance between the posts, I used the Hudson track lengths as a pattern to the center of the posts. I measured them at just under 7ft.


 
The issue with the 6x6's for my temp setup, I don't have any. Didn't want to go buy any, have to mill them etc. I mean I guess I could level the track right on the ground with patio stones but seems like a huge time effort for a temporary deal. I have 25ft utility poles I want to mill the 6x6's from.
As far as loading, I am designing a fork frame that will mount to the FEL arms of my Ford 575D TLB:


 


 
My 575D FEL has a 8500lb lift capacity. It will be a pain to remove the bucket with the 4 pins when I want to use the forks. But the bucket forks are hard to use due to visibility. And any skid steer type quick attach mechanism I could buy that would fit my backhoe only had about 2500lb capacity.
My original intention years ago was to build a log home, so I bought this old Pettibone rough terrain fork truck, basically the first telehandler:


 
But it needs work, and I don't have time to mess with it. So I took the forks off of it to use with the frame I am making for my backhoe.


 
I will use the forks on the backhoe to load logs on the mill, and boards in and out of my kiln, if I ever get that finished:


  

Wlmedley

 

 I used a similar setup.You might find someone to mill your 6x6's to get you going,I bought mine.Also I had adjustable feet which worked out good because sometimes rail needs to be pulled down during leveling process.Been using my mill 1 1/2 years and has required very little adjustments.
Bill Medley WM 126-14hp , Husky372xp ,MF1020 ,Homemade log arch,Yamaha Grizzly 450,GMC2500,Oregon log splitter

Wlmedley

 

I don't have a FIL.I roll logs off deck onto mill.This is finished setup.Top of bunks about 30"off ground on off side.
Bill Medley WM 126-14hp , Husky372xp ,MF1020 ,Homemade log arch,Yamaha Grizzly 450,GMC2500,Oregon log splitter

etd66ss

Quote from: Wlmedley on June 17, 2022, 11:03:40 AM


I don't have a FIL.I roll logs off deck onto mill.This is finished setup.Top of bunks about 30"off ground on off side.
I love that sign on your mill shed.

Wlmedley

I didn't want to do any false advertising :laugh: I know 6x6s are high but I know you can buy a least 24'.It would save you a lot of trouble and after that you can saw everything else.I haven't bought one stick of lumber since I got mill in operation.
Bill Medley WM 126-14hp , Husky372xp ,MF1020 ,Homemade log arch,Yamaha Grizzly 450,GMC2500,Oregon log splitter

Ed_K

 I'm planning to move my mill closer to the house / sugar house. So when I get the pole shed up, it's going to be 16' x 30' this time. The mill centered and this time I'm going to have the mill 3' off the ground. I'm only 5'4" now do to the cancer and where it's at now it's about 16" off the floor of a shed off a machinery shed, and I can't bend over that much to roll a log or tighten the log dogs. I've been using my tractor w/ forks to load logs and I leave it there just back enough to walk between it and the mill to load slabs and lumber onto the forks. Later I'll set up my roller tables to just move the slabs and lumber out of the pole shed on to pallets.
 When I bolt the mill down I'm going to get some 3/8" x 5 1/2" ss lag hanger bolts, I used regular lag bolt the first time and didn't like loosening and tightening them to readjust them.
Ed K

fluidpowerpro

Quote from: etd66ss on June 17, 2022, 06:20:49 AM



Also, to cut the 6x6 beams out of utility poles, I need to temporarily setup the mill. Think I can just set the bed frames on top of the leveled and trimmed post tops to do this?

The Hudson track frames have no holes in the bottom of the angle for lagging into place. For other Hudson owners, did you just drill holes in the frame or is there a better method? I don't think the heads of the lag bolts will be an issue for anything other than cleaning out sawdust.

Also, what is the best method for leveling the track? Lets say I get the 6x6's perfectly level, but then after a freeze/thaw cycle the bed could be out of level a bit if some of the posts settle. The Hudson track does not come with leveling feet. Do I go through the trouble do make up leveling feet, or do I just lag to the 6x6's and use shims? Not a fan of the shim idea tbh...
My experience with the Hud-Son track is it is best to keep it 100% supported so you wont want anything between the track and the 6 x 6. If you do have to adjust, use shims and space them closely together. 
Be careful cutting utility poles. The dust is bad and very toxic. I wouldnt do it. Not worth the risk.
Change is hard....
Especially when a jar full of it falls off the top shelf and hits your head!

etd66ss

I finally got back to this project:



 


 


 


 


 


 


 


 


 


 

Still figuring out how I want to attach the wood beams to the cross bunks, lag bolts or some other means.

And still have to figure out how I'm going to attach the Hudson tracks to the wood beams. Thinking I will make angle clips that utilize the holes already in the side rails of the track, and a bunch of steel shims to get the tracks level.

The wood beams and bunks are all within +/- 1/16" in height. But I assume I want the tracks as perfect as I can get...

thecfarm

I would use long bolts or threaded rod.
Model 6020-20hp Manual Thomas bandsaw,TC40A 4wd 40 hp New Holland tractor, 450 Norse Winch, Heatmor 400 OWB,YCC 1978-79

Old Greenhorn

Threaded rod with big thick washers counterbored on the top side for no protrusion is my choice. For setting the track (I have the same track) I found that after two installations I needed to add a bunch of holes and lag it down, BUT I used plastic door shims under the track for getting a straight run. Whatever you do, the shim, MUST go right alongside the bolts or you will be pulling stress ripples into the track and it will drive you crazy. ( or so I have been told. ;D)
 It looks good man, get at it and enjoy the ride!
Tom Lindtveit, Woodsman Forest Products
Oscar 328 Band Mill, Husky 350, 450, 562, & 372 (Clone), Mule 3010, and too many hand tools. :) Retired and trying to make a living to stay that way. NYLT Certified.
OK, maybe I'm the woodcutter now.
I work with wood, There is a rumor I might be a woodworker.

Tom K

Quote from: etd66ss on July 08, 2023, 05:19:49 PM
I finally got back to this project:

Thinking I will make angle clips that utilize the holes already in the side rails of the track


Those holes in the side of the track frames are for your log dogs, you don't want to use them to anchor your track. I've found I end up moving the log dogs around some depending on the log length I'm cutting.

I was building by inventory, so I made a structural steel channel (C9x15) frame for under my track sections. Right now it's setting on some 4x's so the raise crank handle is about chest high and the height seems comfortable so far. I've got a HFE-30, so should be similar to your 330

fluidpowerpro

I would just use lag screws with big washers placed next to the inside edge of the track with the washer overlapping the edge of the angle iron. 
Change is hard....
Especially when a jar full of it falls off the top shelf and hits your head!

etd66ss

Quote from: Tom K on July 10, 2023, 01:04:26 PM
Quote from: etd66ss on July 08, 2023, 05:19:49 PM
I finally got back to this project:

Thinking I will make angle clips that utilize the holes already in the side rails of the track


Those holes in the side of the track frames are for your log dogs, you don't want to use them to anchor your track. I've found I end up moving the log dogs around some depending on the log length I'm cutting.

I was building by inventory, so I made a structural steel channel (C9x15) frame for under my track sections. Right now it's setting on some 4x's so the raise crank handle is about chest high and the height seems comfortable so far. I've got a HFE-30, so should be similar to your 330
I didn't anticipate I'd be moving the log dog positions around, but have never run a mill before so thx for the tip. I guess I'll figure out a hole pattern to drill in the bottom of the track sections so that the lags are spaced decently and the heads of the lag bolts don't interfere with any other components. I want to be able to use a log jack, so don't want the bolt heads to interfere with the use of said jack either.

My current plan is to drill 5/8" holes on a 24" spacing into the Hudson track and lag it to the beams with 1/2 X 5 lags. I'll use shims under each bolt as well as halfway between, so there is support for the track angle every 12".



 

To get an even spacing I need to go 24" as the track sections are 84" long. There might be an issue with some of the lag bolt heads interfering with the log dog mounts, but will check for clearance before drilling.

Or I could drill holes every 12" and use more lags.



 

Not sure if that is overkill on the amount of lags...

Tom K

It looks like you have the inside edge of the angle frame lined up with the edge of your timber support beam? Typical gauge for a 3" angle is 1.75" from the back side of the leg, so 1.25" from the toe. You might have a hard time keeping that large of a lag bolt from blowing out with that little of distance.

I think right now I have (3) 5/16" bolt per track section on each side and it's been fine. You really don't need much to hold it in place. You really shouldn't be putting much force on the frame other then straight down.

Maybe it's just me on moving the log dogs around? On a 10-12' log I like them spaced out closer to the ends of the logs, then when a 7-8' log lands on the mill you only get one dog the hold it which isn't good. 

etd66ss

Quote from: Tom K on July 11, 2023, 06:15:47 AM
It looks like you have the inside edge of the angle frame lined up with the edge of your timber support beam? Typical gauge for a 3" angle is 1.75" from the back side of the leg, so 1.25" from the toe. You might have a hard time keeping that large of a lag bolt from blowing out with that little of distance.

I think right now I have (3) 5/16" bolt per track section on each side and it's been fine. You really don't need much to hold it in place. You really shouldn't be putting much force on the frame other then straight down.

Maybe it's just me on moving the log dogs around? On a 10-12' log I like them spaced out closer to the ends of the logs, then when a 7-8' log lands on the mill you only get one dog the hold it which isn't good.
I have not bolted the beams down yet so I can move them closer together. I am going with 1/2" lags because I am re-using the square head lags I recovered from the utility poles. They are of high quality not Chinese crap and they are free.
I agree that one dog on a log sounds problematic. I was thinking of buying an extra dog assembly or two from Hudson to ensure whatever length log I am milling uses two dogs.

etd66ss

Some more progress. Have to say, I really dislike how flimsy the Hudson track is. The shimming so far is a real pain in the butt. I made some 3 X 3 steel shims, however will need to make some longer ones as well. The sawn utility poles are not real straight.

I'm using the holes where the log dogs mount as a sight line reference, I'm assuming those are punched with a jig at the factory so should work for that.

Not impressed with the track so far...








    


 





 


 


 


 

fluidpowerpro

I have 2 Hudson mills. I understand about not being impressed, but keep in mind they are meant to be a track, not a sawmill bed. If they were meant to be a bed they would need to be built to hold the entire weight of a log. The bed you have built looks really good and would be exactly how I would do it (other than having crooked poles). If you do end up shimming between the track and the wood beam, make sure and use lots of shims. I would recommend placing one at each cross angle. That way when you place a log on it. The weight it transferred directly to the beam. 
If your track is not adequately supported, you will find that the saw will start to bounce when really heavy logs are on it.
Change is hard....
Especially when a jar full of it falls off the top shelf and hits your head!

etd66ss

The poles I had cut into beams were done on my brothers swing mill. Maybe his blade was dull not sure. Or it could be the fact this is the first time I'm trying to use rough sawn lumber in a precision manner and am asking too much. Some areas will need no shims and some up to 1/8" or 3/16" thick. It could also be my bunk heights are not perfectly even. I don't have a laser only an older optical transit and a yardstick.

I might decide to drill through the beams to mount the track to the sawmill bed with bolts instead of lagging. I have a feeling I need to give myself the ability to re-shim in the future.

I think I'm going to have to buy some kind of laser unit...

Rafterman

I was really frustrated with my Hudson track. I ended up using 2" box iron as a frame under my Hudson track. Put it on the garage floor and welded it together as one piece. Set the track on top and shimmed underneath the box iron as needed. The mill was much better and more consistent after that. If I had kept the mill I would've stitch welded the track to the base frame eventually. 

Crusarius

Rafterman did what I would have suggested. angle iron has no torsional strength and therefore if it is not fully supported it will warp, wave, wander, whatever you want to call it.

In my opinion knowing how angle iron behaves or in this case misbehaves I recommend not shimming the rail. shim the 6x6 to get what you need. keep the rail bolted tight to the 6x6. That will take care of alot of your current issues and prevent future ones. 

Another bonus with doing it that way, torque on the bolts is not as important to keep the rails straight

fluidpowerpro

Just thinking out loud here... I wonder if instead of shims, use some kind of epoxy to fill in any low spots in the beam?? Fill the low spots and then set the angle iron directly on top while its still wet. 
Once everything hardens, then bolt it down.
Change is hard....
Especially when a jar full of it falls off the top shelf and hits your head!

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