Hudson 330Pro Setup

[etd66ss]

I'm making some progress on my sawmill bed:



 


 


 

The posts are 42" below grade, with about 2ft of mixed quickcrete at the bottom of each post, backfilled the rest of the way with soil.

For a mill with a 33" dia log capacity, what is the optimal bunk height from grade? I'll use a water level to trim the posts before continuing the build.

I find that my lower back doesn't like a lot of partial bending over, so a higher working height is better. I'm 6ft tall.

Also, to cut the 6x6 beams out of utility poles, I need to temporarily setup the mill. Think I can just set the bed frames on top of the leveled and trimmed post tops to do this?

The Hudson track frames have no holes in the bottom of the angle for lagging into place. For other Hudson owners, did you just drill holes in the frame or is there a better method? I don't think the heads of the lag bolts will be an issue for anything other than cleaning out sawdust.

Also, what is the best method for leveling the track? Lets say I get the 6x6's perfectly level, but then after a freeze/thaw cycle the bed could be out of level a bit if some of the posts settle. The Hudson track does not come with leveling feet. Do I go through the trouble do make up leveling feet, or do I just lag to the 6x6's and use shims? Not a fan of the shim idea tbh...

[Walnut Beast]

Nice looking area for your setup 👍

[Old Greenhorn]

What is the distance between your posts? Looks like longer than a track length and at any rate the Hodson track will not like open spans. You have to get something under it to stiffen it up. Consider setting 6x6's right on the ground and leveling that up for your temporary setup. Maybe with some patio blocks under it for ease of leveling.
I drilled holes in the middle of my track flanges and used 5/8" bolts with washers. It all cleans out easy when I use a blower on the mill at the end of the day. You will likely want 3 screws along each rail section side. I used lags, but they need checked every few months. On your setup. I would go through the 6x6 with a bolt anyplace you can. This is needed to get the rigidity, at least it was for me. For fine leveling I used the plastic door/window shims on the sides of each tie-down bolt. You don't want shims between the bolts, you want them right under the bolts. The plastic shims worked fine, they don't rot or shrink and you can trim off the extra with a knife when you are done.

As for bed height, for me it would depend on how you are loading logs. Are you using a machine, parbuckling, or hand rolling? Are you building a log deck? Mine is as low as I could get it, basically right on the ground (I am 6' also). There are times I wish I had access from underneath, as you will, for a toeboard lift and cleaning, etc. But I manually roll each log up, so the closer to the ground the better. Yes, picking those last couple of boards off the bed is a pain. But rolling logs while making a cant can be tougher if the bed is too high, so give that a little thought for your situation.

Just about any choice you make will work. You will find reasons later why you should have done something different. That's how we learn. Just think it through and make your best guess choice. With those posts you are off to a great start! When I first saw the photo I thought "my gosh, this fella is building a dock in the middle of a field." :D

[Cornerstone]

Looks like a well thought out and designed plan. Beautiful area also! I don't have a lot of experience yet but what I do know I can share. I hear ya on the bending halfway over issue, that'll make my back scream at me before the work is done. With a fixed mill, I think I would want the track height to be about a foot off the ground, and have a log deck that gently slopes up so rolling them on isn't too bad. My mill currently is designed to be portable, so it has an axle and wheels. The track height is right at knee level, which stepping into it to set the dogs is definitely a work out. I feel like I'm high stepping all the time. Often because I get tired my foot will hang up as I step in or out. If I were to make it a permanent track I would lower it.

[etd66ss]

What is the distance between your posts? Looks like longer than a track length and at any rate the Hodson track will not like open spans. You have to get something under it to stiffen it up. Consider setting 6x6's right on the ground and leveling that up for your temporary setup. Maybe with some patio blocks under it for ease of leveling.
I drilled holes in the middle of my track flanges and used 5/8" bolts with washers. It all cleans out easy when I use a blower on the mill at the end of the day. You will likely want 3 screws along each rail section side. I used lags, but they need checked every few months. On your setup. I would go through the 6x6 with a bolt anyplace you can. This is needed to get the rigidity, at least it was for me. For fine leveling I used the plastic door/window shims on the sides of each tie-down bolt. You don't want shims between the bolts, you want them right under the bolts. The plastic shims worked fine, they don't rot or shrink and you can trim off the extra with a knife when you are done.

As for bed height, for me it would depend on how you are loading logs. Are you using a machine, parbuckling, or hand rolling? Are you building a log deck? Mine is as low as I could get it, basically right on the ground (I am 6' also). There are times I wish I had access from underneath, as you will, for a toeboard lift and cleaning, etc. But I manually roll each log up, so the closer to the ground the better. Yes, picking those last couple of boards off the bed is a pain. But rolling logs while making a cant can be tougher if the bed is too high, so give that a little thought for your situation.

Just about any choice you make will work. You will find reasons later why you should have done something different. That's how we learn. Just think it through and make your best guess choice. With those posts you are off to a great start! When I first saw the photo I thought "my gosh, this fella is building a dock in the middle of a field." :D

So, for the distance between the posts, I used the Hudson track lengths as a pattern to the center of the posts. I measured them at just under 7ft.


 
The issue with the 6x6's for my temp setup, I don't have any. Didn't want to go buy any, have to mill them etc. I mean I guess I could level the track right on the ground with patio stones but seems like a huge time effort for a temporary deal. I have 25ft utility poles I want to mill the 6x6's from.
As far as loading, I am designing a fork frame that will mount to the FEL arms of my Ford 575D TLB:


 


 
My 575D FEL has a 8500lb lift capacity. It will be a pain to remove the bucket with the 4 pins when I want to use the forks. But the bucket forks are hard to use due to visibility. And any skid steer type quick attach mechanism I could buy that would fit my backhoe only had about 2500lb capacity.
My original intention years ago was to build a log home, so I bought this old Pettibone rough terrain fork truck, basically the first telehandler:


 
But it needs work, and I don't have time to mess with it. So I took the forks off of it to use with the frame I am making for my backhoe.


 
I will use the forks on the backhoe to load logs on the mill, and boards in and out of my kiln, if I ever get that finished:


  

[Wlmedley]

 

 I used a similar setup.You might find someone to mill your 6x6's to get you going,I bought mine.Also I had adjustable feet which worked out good because sometimes rail needs to be pulled down during leveling process.Been using my mill 1 1/2 years and has required very little adjustments.

[Wlmedley]

 

I don't have a FIL.I roll logs off deck onto mill.This is finished setup.Top of bunks about 30"off ground on off side.

[etd66ss]

I don't have a FIL.I roll logs off deck onto mill.This is finished setup.Top of bunks about 30"off ground on off side.

I love that sign on your mill shed.

[Wlmedley]

I didn't want to do any false advertising :laugh: I know 6x6s are high but I know you can buy a least 24'.It would save you a lot of trouble and after that you can saw everything else.I haven't bought one stick of lumber since I got mill in operation.

[Ed_K]

 I'm planning to move my mill closer to the house / sugar house. So when I get the pole shed up, it's going to be 16' x 30' this time. The mill centered and this time I'm going to have the mill 3' off the ground. I'm only 5'4" now do to the cancer and where it's at now it's about 16" off the floor of a shed off a machinery shed, and I can't bend over that much to roll a log or tighten the log dogs. I've been using my tractor w/ forks to load logs and I leave it there just back enough to walk between it and the mill to load slabs and lumber onto the forks. Later I'll set up my roller tables to just move the slabs and lumber out of the pole shed on to pallets.
 When I bolt the mill down I'm going to get some 3/8" x 5 1/2" ss lag hanger bolts, I used regular lag bolt the first time and didn't like loosening and tightening them to readjust them.

[fluidpowerpro]

Also, to cut the 6x6 beams out of utility poles, I need to temporarily setup the mill. Think I can just set the bed frames on top of the leveled and trimmed post tops to do this?

The Hudson track frames have no holes in the bottom of the angle for lagging into place. For other Hudson owners, did you just drill holes in the frame or is there a better method? I don't think the heads of the lag bolts will be an issue for anything other than cleaning out sawdust.

Also, what is the best method for leveling the track? Lets say I get the 6x6's perfectly level, but then after a freeze/thaw cycle the bed could be out of level a bit if some of the posts settle. The Hudson track does not come with leveling feet. Do I go through the trouble do make up leveling feet, or do I just lag to the 6x6's and use shims? Not a fan of the shim idea tbh...

My experience with the Hud-Son track is it is best to keep it 100% supported so you wont want anything between the track and the 6 x 6. If you do have to adjust, use shims and space them closely together. 
Be careful cutting utility poles. The dust is bad and very toxic. I wouldnt do it. Not worth the risk.

[etd66ss]

I finally got back to this project:



 


 


 


 


 


 


 


 


 


 

Still figuring out how I want to attach the wood beams to the cross bunks, lag bolts or some other means.

And still have to figure out how I'm going to attach the Hudson tracks to the wood beams. Thinking I will make angle clips that utilize the holes already in the side rails of the track, and a bunch of steel shims to get the tracks level.

The wood beams and bunks are all within +/- 1/16" in height. But I assume I want the tracks as perfect as I can get...

[thecfarm]

I would use long bolts or threaded rod.

[Old Greenhorn]

Threaded rod with big thick washers counterbored on the top side for no protrusion is my choice. For setting the track (I have the same track) I found that after two installations I needed to add a bunch of holes and lag it down, BUT I used plastic door shims under the track for getting a straight run. Whatever you do, the shim, MUST go right alongside the bolts or you will be pulling stress ripples into the track and it will drive you crazy. ( or so I have been told. ;D)
 It looks good man, get at it and enjoy the ride!

[Tom K]

I finally got back to this project:

Thinking I will make angle clips that utilize the holes already in the side rails of the track

Those holes in the side of the track frames are for your log dogs, you don't want to use them to anchor your track. I've found I end up moving the log dogs around some depending on the log length I'm cutting.

I was building by inventory, so I made a structural steel channel (C9x15) frame for under my track sections. Right now it's setting on some 4x's so the raise crank handle is about chest high and the height seems comfortable so far. I've got a HFE-30, so should be similar to your 330

[fluidpowerpro]

I would just use lag screws with big washers placed next to the inside edge of the track with the washer overlapping the edge of the angle iron. 

[etd66ss]

I finally got back to this project:

Thinking I will make angle clips that utilize the holes already in the side rails of the track

Those holes in the side of the track frames are for your log dogs, you don't want to use them to anchor your track. I've found I end up moving the log dogs around some depending on the log length I'm cutting.

I was building by inventory, so I made a structural steel channel (C9x15) frame for under my track sections. Right now it's setting on some 4x's so the raise crank handle is about chest high and the height seems comfortable so far. I've got a HFE-30, so should be similar to your 330

I didn't anticipate I'd be moving the log dog positions around, but have never run a mill before so thx for the tip. I guess I'll figure out a hole pattern to drill in the bottom of the track sections so that the lags are spaced decently and the heads of the lag bolts don't interfere with any other components. I want to be able to use a log jack, so don't want the bolt heads to interfere with the use of said jack either.

My current plan is to drill 5/8" holes on a 24" spacing into the Hudson track and lag it to the beams with 1/2 X 5 lags. I'll use shims under each bolt as well as halfway between, so there is support for the track angle every 12".



 

To get an even spacing I need to go 24" as the track sections are 84" long. There might be an issue with some of the lag bolt heads interfering with the log dog mounts, but will check for clearance before drilling.

Or I could drill holes every 12" and use more lags.



 

Not sure if that is overkill on the amount of lags...

[Tom K]

It looks like you have the inside edge of the angle frame lined up with the edge of your timber support beam? Typical gauge for a 3" angle is 1.75" from the back side of the leg, so 1.25" from the toe. You might have a hard time keeping that large of a lag bolt from blowing out with that little of distance.

I think right now I have (3) 5/16" bolt per track section on each side and it's been fine. You really don't need much to hold it in place. You really shouldn't be putting much force on the frame other then straight down.

Maybe it's just me on moving the log dogs around? On a 10-12' log I like them spaced out closer to the ends of the logs, then when a 7-8' log lands on the mill you only get one dog the hold it which isn't good. 

[etd66ss]

It looks like you have the inside edge of the angle frame lined up with the edge of your timber support beam? Typical gauge for a 3" angle is 1.75" from the back side of the leg, so 1.25" from the toe. You might have a hard time keeping that large of a lag bolt from blowing out with that little of distance.

I think right now I have (3) 5/16" bolt per track section on each side and it's been fine. You really don't need much to hold it in place. You really shouldn't be putting much force on the frame other then straight down.

Maybe it's just me on moving the log dogs around? On a 10-12' log I like them spaced out closer to the ends of the logs, then when a 7-8' log lands on the mill you only get one dog the hold it which isn't good.

I have not bolted the beams down yet so I can move them closer together. I am going with 1/2" lags because I am re-using the square head lags I recovered from the utility poles. They are of high quality not Chinese crap and they are free.
I agree that one dog on a log sounds problematic. I was thinking of buying an extra dog assembly or two from Hudson to ensure whatever length log I am milling uses two dogs.

[etd66ss]

Some more progress. Have to say, I really dislike how flimsy the Hudson track is. The shimming so far is a real pain in the butt. I made some 3 X 3 steel shims, however will need to make some longer ones as well. The sawn utility poles are not real straight.

I'm using the holes where the log dogs mount as a sight line reference, I'm assuming those are punched with a jig at the factory so should work for that.

Not impressed with the track so far...








    


 





 


 


 


 

[fluidpowerpro]

I have 2 Hudson mills. I understand about not being impressed, but keep in mind they are meant to be a track, not a sawmill bed. If they were meant to be a bed they would need to be built to hold the entire weight of a log. The bed you have built looks really good and would be exactly how I would do it (other than having crooked poles). If you do end up shimming between the track and the wood beam, make sure and use lots of shims. I would recommend placing one at each cross angle. That way when you place a log on it. The weight it transferred directly to the beam. 
If your track is not adequately supported, you will find that the saw will start to bounce when really heavy logs are on it.

[etd66ss]

The poles I had cut into beams were done on my brothers swing mill. Maybe his blade was dull not sure. Or it could be the fact this is the first time I'm trying to use rough sawn lumber in a precision manner and am asking too much. Some areas will need no shims and some up to 1/8" or 3/16" thick. It could also be my bunk heights are not perfectly even. I don't have a laser only an older optical transit and a yardstick.

I might decide to drill through the beams to mount the track to the sawmill bed with bolts instead of lagging. I have a feeling I need to give myself the ability to re-shim in the future.

I think I'm going to have to buy some kind of laser unit...

[Rafterman]

I was really frustrated with my Hudson track. I ended up using 2" box iron as a frame under my Hudson track. Put it on the garage floor and welded it together as one piece. Set the track on top and shimmed underneath the box iron as needed. The mill was much better and more consistent after that. If I had kept the mill I would've stitch welded the track to the base frame eventually. 

[Crusarius]

Rafterman did what I would have suggested. angle iron has no torsional strength and therefore if it is not fully supported it will warp, wave, wander, whatever you want to call it.

In my opinion knowing how angle iron behaves or in this case misbehaves I recommend not shimming the rail. shim the 6x6 to get what you need. keep the rail bolted tight to the 6x6. That will take care of alot of your current issues and prevent future ones. 

Another bonus with doing it that way, torque on the bolts is not as important to keep the rails straight

[fluidpowerpro]

Just thinking out loud here... I wonder if instead of shims, use some kind of epoxy to fill in any low spots in the beam?? Fill the low spots and then set the angle iron directly on top while its still wet. 
Once everything hardens, then bolt it down.

[fluidpowerpro]

Or on the same note, instead of putting the epoxy under the angle iron, use epoxy or whatever to glue / screw something like a 2 x 6 on top of the current wooden beam.

[Tom K]

Fluidpower is correct with his comments. The track framework needs to be supported properly. It's up to you to make sure your track supports are flat & straight. If you are starting out with beams that are not flat you are going to be fighting an uphill battle. You need your beams to be straight & flat.

That's the main reason I decided to make a steel frame to set the track on. That and I don't know where it's going to live at permanently. Right now I can grab the whole 21' frame with the skid loader and have it set somewhere else and ready to saw again in 10 minutes.

[etd66ss]

It took me a while but with shims and my transit I got the tracks as flat as possible without a laser. I dialed in the track height at 6 places each track section.



 


 


 


 


 


 


 


 


 

I normally don't use black oxide SHCS's for outdoor equipment as they rust quickly, but it's all I had that was long enough so capped off the tops so they don't rust up so fast.

The real test will be when I get the mill on the tracks if all four wheels maintain full contact. (I doubt it but we'll see.)

[fluidpowerpro]

Your set up looks great and the extra time you spent will prove to be well worth it. 

[etd66ss]

All four wheels touch the full travel of the track, so I didn't have to make anymore adjustments:

Hudson 330Pro Track



 


 


 

I'm a bit confused about the water tank. (I thought I got a manual with this machine but can't find it). There is a steel one on the machine, it has no cap. Then there is a bracket to mount a plastic jug that is all busted up because it was not UV resistant.

Does the plastic jug feed the steel tank? I need to NPT cap with a barb fitting in it to connect up to a jug?

Anyone know where I can get a jug that will fit the bracket I have?



 


 

One of the log dogs is cracked, kind of crazy because the previous owner bought this new and only put 10 hours on it. How is this already broken? Will have to re-weld it.



 


 

I have not tried run it yet, as it started raining.

Someday I'd like to build a little doghouse with extra track so I can drive the mill right into it, but for now will need tarps or something to keep it out of the weather as best as possible.

[fluidpowerpro]

The true test for your wheels is after you put a heavy log on it.
Not sure about the steel tank. Mine on my HFE36 runs directly from the plastic jug to the blade.
Your jug looks like mine so I took a look and I see on the bottom some small text, Bway Dayton. Maybe that's the mfgr.
If you want a manual, Hudson has them on their website for download.

[fluidpowerpro]

Also, good idea about the doghouse. I built one for my first Oscar 18 and wished I had done it sooner.

[Old Greenhorn]

I have a 328, doesn't have that steel tank and the plastic one is about 2.5 gallons. The manual should be available on Hudson's website as a download, print it off.
 I have the same clamps and half of them have those cracks. Hammer them back into shape, grind a 45 chamfer on that corner and reweld them, as I did mine. They crack due to over clamping. You don't need a lot of force on them once you see how things perform, but new folks are usually extra cautious. ;D
 I have always wanted to doghouse mine too, but just do a heavy duty tarp wrap during the season and a double over the winter.
 Get ready for the fun to start now!

[etd66ss]

So I looked on the bottom of what is left of the plastic lube tank.

It reads:

B-WAY
M-4200
20L

Looking on the Hudson website: Lube Tank

This looks to be an accessory. Maybe I'll start with the small steel built in tank. I guess the larger add on tank is so you don't have to refill as often.

I do have some logs but they are all Norway Spruce, so not the heaviest wood. Maybe 24 in at the large end, 24ft long.

However, the cross bunks on the tracks are not that long and with the track sections bolted together that is doubled up 3X3X1/4" angle. I don't see those deflecting much at all even with a heavy oak log or the like.

[thecfarm]

Do you have 2 of everything?  ;D

[etd66ss]

Do you have 2 of everything?  ;D

No, but I just picked up that Hitachi UH-122 excavator and Komatsu D65S-6 track loader for 1/2 scrap value as they needed to be moved off a property that sold. They are both pretty rough. Future projects...

That CAT D6C and 225 I use regularly.

[jpassardi]

I replaced my lube tank with a red 5 gal gas tank because they have some UV resistance. I cut off and RTV'd a boiler drain to the spout then drilled a small vent in opposite side when tipped on it's side. The boiler drain is a gate valve which doubles to regulate flow.
Even with the saw head under a "dog house" shed it still gets sun due to the way it faces.

[etd66ss]

Got the machine running but have an issue. The belts are flying out of both pulleys.

Loose Belts

I just wanted to see if I could get the engine running, runs fine. Is the blade too tight or something?

Welp, finally found the manual and it stated to loosen the blade tension after you're done sawing. This blade has been on there an tensioned for like 4 years. I guess I need new pulley belts.

[etd66ss]

Can someone help me out with the blade tensioning?

The manual states to use a torque wrench until you achieve 30-35 lbs of torque. It does not specify ft-lb or in-lb. I have a ft-lb torque wrench but it seems like I'm going to break something tightening that bolt to 30 ft-lb...

[Old Greenhorn]

I'd call HudSon on that one. Their manuals are pretty 'sparse' and that is something that should be fixed in the manual. I use an 8" long ratchet on mine and tighten it fairly good. Takes a little time to find the sweet spot but it's pretty tight, not crazy tight. 

[Nodak Andy]

Should be Ft-lbs.  Many manufacturers say 20-25, but 30-35 isn't out of the ordinary.

[etd66ss]

Should be Ft-lbs.  Many manufacturers say 20-25, but 30-35 isn't out of the ordinary.

Yikes, I had the torque wrench set to 20 ft-lb and it didn't click, blade seemed to be super tight already. Backed off because I didn't want to destroy anything.

Would a blade not tensioned enough cause this? Loose Belts

I already ordered new belts, but maybe that was premature and I don't need them...

[Old Greenhorn]

If you are talking about the flop on the bandwheel belts, that is normal, they all do that. No issues there.

[etd66ss]

If you are talking about the flop on the bandwheel belts, that is normal, they all do that. No issues there.

Wow, that just doesn't look right...

[Old Greenhorn]

OK

[etd66ss]

OK

I guess if it is it is. The mechanical engineer in me is wondering why. Maybe that belt doesn't have any cord reinforcement. The belt is fully out of the v-groove opposite the blade. Seems like this would increase vibration. I can see why Cooks uses the steel crowned vs. v-groove.

[fluidpowerpro]

Watching the video, I can hear that the clutch is right at the point of disengagement. I would adjust your idle RPM down a bit so the blade does not move when idling. 

[etd66ss]

I have been watching a bunch of Hudson videos and I don't see the band belts slinging out like mine are. I have new belts on the way but not sure if they need replacing (again this saw has like 10 hrs on it) or if there is something else going on.

[Old Greenhorn]

OK, here's the physics: You have to have enough give in the belt so that you can get it on and off. If it were tight enough to not sling out where there is no compressive load on it it would also be too tight to get on and off. Think how tight that belt would have to be to prevent that slop. When you tighten the blade it forces that belt down into the groove. The slack HAS to go somewhere. Yes, I admit that the first time you see it, it seems weird, and wrong, but it's normal. The 328 I have does it and the LT50 I run also does it. As long as that belt is not worn enough to allow the band to contact the wheel, it is good. You need to watch them for cracking and tearing, especially after band breaks, but otherwise they should be good. Yes, they do need replacing from time to time and it's good to have spares ready, but what I see there is fine.

[etd66ss]

I just found a video where the owner torqued his Hudson 336 tensioner to 38 ft-lb with a large 1/2" drive torque wrench like I was using. So now I feel a bit better about the ft-lb thing.

Should actually be able to saw my first ever log this weekend.

Though I think my blade guides need adjusting. One of the bearing rollers is about 1/4" from the back of the blade which seems wsy too much.

[fluidpowerpro]

Mine were doing that and although it didn't seem to cause any issues, I called Hudson and asked them about it. They said they should be tight. I bought new ones and they are tight. You really need to stretch them to get them on. I soaked mine in hot water and that seemed to help. 

[etd66ss]

Mine were doing that and although it didn't seem to cause any issues, I called Hudson and asked them about it. They said they should be tight. I bought new ones and they are tight. You really need to stretch them to get them on. I soaked mine in hot water and that seemed to help.

Yeah I understand 180 degrees of the belt is being compressed by the blade but it only compresses on the order of .010" or so. And I understand centripetal force is acting to fling the belt out of the v-groove, but seeing an air gap like that between the root of the belt and band wheel was alarming.

Considering this saw is a ~2018 model and it only has 5-10 hrs on it, this tells me those belts degrade over time without even being used...

[Tom K]

Yes, your belts are junk. Yes 30-35 ft lbs is correct. I torque, then rotate by hand 1-2 revolutions and recheck.

As said, there are multiple videos on Hud-sons website that go over everything you need to know about adjusting and setting up your mill. Spend a hour or two watching them all. Nothing on that mill is very complicated, it will all start to make sense when you start milling some logs.

Keep in mind you also don't use much blade lube. If I were to guess I use less than a gallon per 1k bf sawing mixed hardwoods.

[etd66ss]

Yes, your belts are junk. Yes 30-35 ft lbs is correct. I torque, then rotate by hand 1-2 revolutions and recheck.

As said, there are multiple videos on Hud-sons website that go over everything you need to know about adjusting and setting up your mill. Spend a hour or two watching them all. Nothing on that mill is very complicated, it will all start to make sense when you start milling some logs.

Keep in mind you also don't use much blade lube. If I were to guess I use less than a gallon per 1k bf sawing mixed hardwoods.

I have been watching every Hudson video on their website and on YT that I could find. The official Hudson videos are lacking IMO (Cooks videos are way better). So between these forums and YT videos of people setting up and using their mills, I am slowly gathering all the info.

[Crusarius]

It really will begin to make sense as you start milling.

[etd66ss]

 

 

So the band wheel belts came off quite effortlessly. And as a test I was able to put one back on very easily without heat.

I received the new belts and the circumference of the new belts is a few inches smaller than the old, they do look like a challenge to install.

My question is then, how did these belts become junk with the mill having so few hours. Are these belts like tires? They have a timeframe of viability independent from actual usage or wear?  They need replacing every ~5 years regardless on how much the mill is used?

[Old Greenhorn]

It's hard to tell in your photo, but it appears what you have there is a urethane belt, not the standard belt that Hud-son sells. Urethane has no core and is all rubber, stretches on much easier, but is also more 'stretchy and squishy' which means it will squeeze out easier under pressure and load. I bought one of those once, but it arrived in the wrong size and I never used it, just went back to the standard gates belts which do not stretch much at all and can be a lot harder to install.. As I said in an earlier post "As long as that belt is not worn enough to allow the band to contact the wheel, it is good."     , the purpose of this belt is to keep the blade off the steel of the band wheel and provide that 'crown effect'. 
 Is there a specific problem you are trying to address here, or is it just that it doesn't look right to you? If there is no problem, I would just run it and learn from there. Starting out on a band mill has many, many little lessons you will need to get through. 

[etd66ss]

It's hard to tell in your photo, but it appears what you have there is a urethane belt, not the standard belt that Hud-son sells. Urethane has no core and is all rubber, stretches on much easier, but is also more 'stretchy and squishy' which means it will squeeze out easier under pressure and load. I bought one of those once, but it arrived in the wrong size and I never used it, just went back to the standard gates belts which do not stretch much at all and can be a lot harder to install.. As I said in an earlier post "As long as that belt is not worn enough to allow the band to contact the wheel, it is good."     , the purpose of this belt is to keep the blade off the steel of the band wheel and provide that 'crown effect'.
Is there a specific problem you are trying to address here, or is it just that it doesn't look right to you? If there is no problem, I would just run it and learn from there. Starting out on a band mill has many, many little lessons you will need to get through.

I already bought new belts, used the Hudson part number in my parts manual (HF-56.5). 
New vs. old belt:


 


 
I'm going to put the new ones on and go from there. The floppy belts looked wrong to me. If I have to replace these often, I'll consider a normal belt as opposed to this urethane belt.

[fluidpowerpro]

When you install the belt, you will have to drop one side of the shaft and bearing. If you go about it right, you won't effect the alignment of the band wheels.
Also. I found that soaking them in really hot water helped when stretching them on.

[fluidpowerpro]

Sorry. Didn't scroll down far enough.. I see your past that point. 
I just replaced the belts on my Oscar 18 last year and I bought that in 2006 so they lasted that long with lots of use. Not sure why yours didn't last...

[fluidpowerpro]

One possible reason they failed could be that at some point in time the blade got too hot. If this happens, the belt can stick to the blade. I hate to admit it , but I did that once on my HFE36. I was about a foot from the end of a cut and the blade started to dive really bad. I tried to work out of it and the blade got so hot it actually stuck to the belt when I shut it down. I had to use a torch and putty knife to separate the 2 after. 
I felt so stupid I felt obligated to post it in Did something dumb today. 
It best not to have to post there....

[Old Greenhorn]

Don't take this wrong, just trying to help understand this but you say "looked wrong to me." Which drives me to ask 'as compared to what?' Without comparing it to a standard corded belt in a similar application, it's hard to know how long they should last, but my experience on the 328 is a long time (like a year or two) barring any catastrophic event. I guess Hud-son has switched to urethane belts now. They used corded a couple of years ago, but I can't speak for the larger mills.
 I feel like we are beating this to death without any stated problem to solve. Get some logs up and start cutting. You will likely find other issues to focus on first. That's sawing. ;D

[etd66ss]

Don't take this wrong, just trying to help understand this but you say "looked wrong to me." Which drives me to ask 'as compared to what?' Without comparing it to a standard corded belt in a similar application, it's hard to know how long they should last, but my experience on the 328 is a long time (like a year or two) barring any catastrophic event. I guess Hud-son has switched to urethane belts now. They used corded a couple of years ago, but I can't speak for the larger mills.
I feel like we are beating this to death without any stated problem to solve. Get some logs up and start cutting. You will likely find other issues to focus on first. That's sawing. ;D

Engineering-wise (it's a personality flaw, I get it), it doesn't make sense for the belts to be flying out of the v-groove like that. As in, no one would/should design a machine in that manner. Maybe using urethane belts is a design flaw... 
However, comparing the old belts to the new, I definitely see an issue. I suppose I will find out if these belts are a poor choice of material, or those specific belts were defective in some way.
In any event, I will hopefully be sawing this weekend if the weather holds.

[etd66ss]

One possible reason they failed could be that at some point in time the blade got too hot. If this happens, the belt can stick to the blade. I hate to admit it , but I did that once on my HFE36. I was about a foot from the end of a cut and the blade started to dive really bad. I tried to work out of it and the blade got so hot it actually stuck to the belt when I shut it down. I had to use a torch and putty knife to separate the 2 after.
I felt so stupid I felt obligated to post it in Did something dumb today.
It best not to have to post there....

Hmm, I planned to use a heat gun to put these on, your story here has me thinking maybe not, or be extra careful.  I don't have access to hot water where my mill is unless I build a fire and put some hot rocks in a bucket etc. Figured a heat gun would be easier.

[Old Greenhorn]

I understand that personality 'flaw', as I share it. I did machine and tool design for the last 25 years of my career (but I lack a formal degree, just a lot of personal studying with each new project). Upon retiring and switching to woodworking I learned (the hard way) that I had to drop or 'adjust' my level of precision and perfection just a bit.
 I designed a machine about 20 years ago to hold and rotate semi-conductor wafer discs for a precision cleaning process. I had to use custom designed v-rollers to hold and drive the wafers around slowly. These were an aluminum hub/core with urethane bonded to the OD for the 'tire' then ground to a high precision V-groove. (Holding .0005" in rubber is NOT easy!) It took a while to hit on the right Durometer choice for the 'tire' material. The only way to get the urethane to stay put while we ground it was to freeze it with nitrogen as it was ground. Those wheels turned into their own development project (I/We should have gotten a patent). 
 The point is, urethane is pretty flexible and you just have to work with that where you can, and change materials where you can't.

[etd66ss]

I understand that personality 'flaw', as I share it. I did machine and tool design for the last 25 years of my career (but I lack a formal degree, just a lot of personal studying with each new project). Upon retiring and switching to woodworking I learned (the hard way) that I had to drop or 'adjust' my level of precision and perfection just a bit.
I designed a machine about 20 years ago to hold and rotate semi-conductor wafer discs for a precision cleaning process. I had to use custom designed v-rollers to hold and drive the wafers around slowly. These were an aluminum hub/core with urethane bonded to the OD for the 'tire' then ground to a high precision V-groove. (Holding .0005" in rubber is NOT easy!) It took a while to hit on the right Durometer choice for the 'tire' material. The only way to get the urethane to stay put while we ground it was to freeze it with nitrogen as it was ground. Those wheels turned into their own development project (I/We should have gotten a patent).
The point is, urethane is pretty flexible and you just have to work with that where you can, and change materials where you can't.

I'm a mechanical design engineer in Aerospace, and yeah, I guess wood is no longer used for that so maybe lower my expectations of milling precision. But again, floppy belts just looked wrong lol.


My personality flaw is why I was not impressed with the Husdson track segments, but for what it does I guess the precision is fine.

[fluidpowerpro]

I would try stretching them on first without any heat. You'll probably be able to get them on. If you do heat, I wouldn't use a heat gun. Too hot and only heats local where your pointing it. Water will heat it up evenly. Use the heat gun to heat water in a coffee can???

[Crusarius]

take the wheels off and move them to a location with a heat source like hot water or oven.

[etd66ss]

take the wheels off and move them to a location with a heat source like hot water or oven.

I didn't want to have to remove all the pillow blocks but if I can't get hot water out there may have to.
I'll try with no heat to start with.

[chep]

Got a big thermos for your hot water?

[etd66ss]

No heat required. Just some zip ties a hand grip strength.



 


 

[Crusarius]

Zip ties was a good idea, I never thought of that.

[fluidpowerpro]

Nice! Good idea! I'll have to remember that for next time I have to replace mine.

[etd66ss]

New band wheel belts working as expected:

New band belts

I don't like how floppy these band wheel covers are with only the mounting on one end, may have to add additional mounting brackets:

Vibrating band wheel covers

I noticed an issue with the blade guides when I was adjusting. The ball bearings can't physically make contact with the back of the blade, because the blade hits the aluminum mounting brackets for the ceramic blade guides about .020" before they can touch the outer race of the bearings. Not sure what is going on, but not working as intended. The blade will have to wear a notch into the aluminum brackets before ever being able to touch the bearings...

I see nothing in my manual for ceramic blade guide setup dimensions, so I just set them to barely touch the blade and not pinch. They are not forcing the blade up or down, like the Cooks rollers that force the blade down a bit.

[Tom K]

I don't think ceramic guides are stock, at least now they are not. Maybe someone modified your guide setup?

You should be able to move the alum. guide block back with the adjustment rod, then move the bearing forward. The rod the guides mount to is adjustable forward & back.

My wheel covers do not vibrate nearly that much. Remember they need to come off every time you change a blade, so don't make them too hard to get off.

[etd66ss]

Trying to get the hang of this log scale. Trying to cut 2X lumber using the 6/4 scale.

Does the scale not account for the kerf?



 


 


 


 

[fluidpowerpro]

The scale accounts for kerf, but nothing additional for shrinkage after it dries. 

[etd66ss]

The scale accounts for kerf, but nothing additional for shrinkage after it dries.

Then I must be doing something wrong. I set the indicator and scale up so the first 6/4 gradation mark while the tooth set pointing downwards was excatly 1.5 " from the track bunks.

I cranked up three 6/4 gradations expecting the height from the bunks to be 1.5" x 4 + (kerf x 3).
I cut my cant and it was exactly 6" high. There was no accounting for kerf. So instead of getting four 2×6's I got three that were 1.5" thick as I had to manually measure out each down at the blade with a tape measure. The last board was only 1.25" thick...

My log loading setup works good at least:

[fluidpowerpro]

No....6/4 is exactly that, 6/4 per graduation....only move it one graduation.

[fluidpowerpro]

Also, quite often the last board can be off because of tension in the log. The last board may want to no longer sit flat on the bunks. You could try cutting half way down through the log, rotate 180* and then finish. That might help, but not always....

[etd66ss]

No....6/4 is exactly that, 6/4 per graduation....only move it one graduation.

I guess I don't follow. If the scale included the kerf, then that means the distance between every 6/4 gradation adds a kerf. You crank multiple 6/4 gradations you're adding multiple kerf's.

[Old Greenhorn]

Are you checking your thickness along the full length of the boards, or just at one end? You want to look at the full length to get an accurate picture of what is happening.

You have a cable lift on that machine, which has slop/backlash in it. You are probably already doing this, given your background but... When you start at the top and drop down, it is very important to drop past your target mark then crank back up to the mark each cut. This loads the head properly and evenly. If you just drop from mark to mark, the results will make you crazy and give your poor results.

As FPP said, you must keep an eye on that cant as you mill to make sure no stress is showing up, it sneaks up gradual. Look all the way down that log at each bunk contact point for gaps or other weird stuff. Cants will bend up and down as you relieve the stress through the log. You don't want to end up with this:



 

That Hemlock log was plain sawed top to bottom for 4/4 single live edge siding. There was no issue with the head control and EVERY board was a different thickness. The cant was bending up and down as the stress loads changed.

BTW, if you are cutting 2X material, I would cut it 8/4 to allow for shrinkage. In EWP, when I cut 1x10's green and let them dry they are very quickly coming in at 7/8 x 9-1/2 within a couple of months.

[etd66ss]

Are you checking your thickness along the full length of the boards, or just at one end? You want to look at the full length to get an accurate picture of what is happening.

You have a cable lift on that machine, which has slop/backlash in it. You are probably already doing this, given your background but... When you start at the top and drop down, it is very important to drop past your target mark then crank back up to the mark each cut. This loads the head properly and evenly. If you just drop from mark to mark, the results will make you crazy and give your poor results.

As FPP said, you must keep an eye on that cant as you mill to make sure no stress is showing up, it sneaks up gradual. Look all the way down that log at each bunk contact point for gaps or other weird stuff. Cants will bend up and down as you relieve the stress through the log. You don't want to end up with this:



 

That Hemlock log was plain sawed top to bottom for 4/4 single live edge siding. There was no issue with the head control and EVERY board was a different thickness. The cant was bending up and down as the stress loads changed.

BTW, if you are cutting 2X material, I would cut it 8/4 to allow for shrinkage. In EWP, when I cut 1x10's green and let them dry they are very quickly coming in at 7/8 x 9-1/2 within a couple of months.

Yeah, I have been doing the lowering then cranking back up tp tension the cable.
The manual for my mill says the log scale includes the kerf, but not the 1" ruler scale, which makes sense.
I have checked boards a few places over the length and I am getting consistent thickness. I am milling primarily Norway Spruce, which cuts very easily. Though I did throw on a much denser an knotted Scotts Pine, and so far no wavy cuts.
Everything seems to be working fine, except the log scale. The manual states it includes the kerf but that's not what I am seeing in practice as I measure how far the actual blade travels. Unless the cable lift mechanism is just very inaccurate. I whish Hudson used a lift screw like the Woodland Mills machines.
I can use a set of calipers to actually measure the kerf, but, for a 1-1/4" 10 deg blade, what would be standard? Around .070"?

[Old Greenhorn]

I just figure 1/8" kerf on everything. It may be right or wrong but it works for the work I do. Wood shrinks and requires planeing anyway for nice work, so I need material. For framing stuff it's a full size 8/4 and mostly I am working on the L%50 with Accuset which has the kerf built in an d can be set at anything. I find it's more important to be consistent than anything else.
 On My HudSon I use a magnetic scale purchased from WoodMizer for their smaller manual mills. I like that because I just position it on my first cut at the increment I want and it works fairly well, good enough for me anyway.

[fluidpowerpro]

These are some tools I made for marking the end of the log to whatever thickness I want. The holes are drilled to include extra for drying.
You lay it over the edge and then use a sharpie to make marks through the dots. They are easy to make. Just a bent strip of thin aluminum with holes drilled thru. I put a little chamfer on each hole so the tip of the sharpie fits better.
It's not the most efficient, but it works.

 

[etd66ss]

I just figure 1/8" kerf on everything. It may be right or wrong but it works for the work I do. Wood shrinks and requires planeing anyway for nice work, so I need material. For framing stuff it's a full size 8/4 and mostly I am working on the L%50 with Accuset which has the kerf built in an d can be set at anything. I find it's more important to be consistent than anything else.
On My HudSon I use a magnetic scale purchased from WoodMizer for their smaller manual mills. I like that because I just position it on my first cut at the increment I want and it works fairly well, good enough for me anyway.

I'm going to look into that magnetic scale, thanks.

[Nebraska]

Vallee sawmills in Canada makes a nice magnetic scale as well.  I use one on my timberking.

  best picture of it I had in my gallery.  3/4 to 16/4 , plus the ruler.

[fluidpowerpro]

Does the Vallee scale just have an allowance for kerf, or does it also add for shrinkage.

[etd66ss]

Needed a place to air dry stickered lumber as my kiln is not done yet.



 

[beenthere]

Looks to be a wide pile. But may be deceiving too. 
About max of 4' wide for air drying, if indeed in NY. In the south with SYP, get by with wider piles. 

[etd66ss]

Looks to be a wide pile. But may be deceiving too.
About max of 4' wide for air drying, if indeed in NY. In the south with SYP, get by with wider piles.

I stack them 3 ft wide, next to one another with about a 1 ft gap.  Probably not ideal, but I dry mostly spruce, seems to work.