Myths vs. Facts

swampwhiteoak · January 11, 2002, 01:30:50 PM

Re: Wildlife and Land Mgmt

Just to expand a little on what Ron S. said

Nearly anything done (or not done) to a natural landscape will be beneficial to some forms of wildlife, and detrimental to others. The key is knowing the habitat requirements of a target species and making sure that habitat is available.

Unmanaged "virgin" forest is good habitat for forest interior birds and many amphibians. Most other species thrive in a managed environment. Providing habitat for all wildlife is only possible on large tracts of land.

I think the jist of the myth is that man's manipulations only hurt nature, and any resource extraction is hurting the environment. Of course everyone in this audience knows that just isn't the case.

Ron Scott · January 11, 2002, 03:36:13 PM

Charlie,
I agree with the "college pines" being active with "wildlife". A prime location.
Did you ever run into Mel Fisher in Fort Pierce?

Corley5 · January 11, 2002, 04:20:33 PM

The mention of opening creation in forests for the benefit of wildlife brings to mind one case. Remember the huge controversey over drilling for oil and gas in the Pigeon River Country State Forest here in the Nothern Lower. Oh my God! it was going to so detrimental and destroy the character of the forest and ruin it for the elk herd and all the other wildlife. Welllll Guess what? The creation of all those oil and gas well pads was of great benefit to the elk, deer etc. They love these openings. The sound of the well equipment doesn't bother them in the least. Wells in the northern part of the forest are running out now and being pulled but the openings remain and the oil companies are landscaping them and planting them to meadow mixes, a mixture of grass, clover and fescues. I've also planted some fruit bearing shrubs in some of these clearings as part of my job with the DNR. When the wells are all gone, the pipe lines pulled, and pumping stations dismantled the clearings are still going to be there benefitting the wildlife. Oil and gas exploration in the PRCSF really wasn't that bad after all.

CHARLIE · January 14, 2002, 08:43:19 AM

Ron, I don't recollect ever seeing Mel Fisher but he was well known.........he was a wheeler dealer, he was............ From what I understand, if you dealt with him...he was going to come out on top.

Ron Scott · January 17, 2002, 02:41:19 PM

Yes, Mel is a famous professional treasure hunter out of Fort Pierce. He made the extremely wealthy find of the shipwreck Atocha. He also has a museum in Fort Pierce I believe.

I have a diver friend who worked on some of the salvage with him.

Ron Scott · January 17, 2002, 05:57:31 PM

Myth

Many species have become extinct as a result of timber harvesting.

Fact

In North America virtually no species has become extinct because of timber harvesting.

Ron Scott · January 25, 2002, 05:24:01 PM

Myth

Forests should be preserved. We should use other products instead of wood to save trees.

Fact

Forests are Renewable. The only constant thing about forests is continual change, even without the hand of mankind. Trees are grown with energy from the sun, which is free, and manufacture of wood products takes less energy and causes less pollution than the manufacture of possible substitutes for wood, which are largely manufactured from non-renewable resources.

Ron Wenrich · January 25, 2002, 06:53:57 PM

Heard on the radio this week that a Georgia outfit has come up with a way to make kenaf into studs. They grind it up and make a mixture that can be formed into "lumber". Billed as termite proof.

Jeff · January 26, 2002, 05:24:39 AM

what is Kenaf? I heard that same thing on the radio but missed what they were making them from.

Frank_Pender · January 26, 2002, 06:07:48 AM

Pleae hurry with a reply on this one. 8) Inquiring minds want to know. I might have a new sideline in my milling business. :D

swampwhiteoak · January 26, 2002, 08:42:23 AM

Kenaf is a fiber plant. It's an annual plant that would be grown in a field, similar to hemp. It gets real tall. Over in Europe I've heard they'll make fiber boards, similar to OSB, out of hemp, so I suppose you can do the same out of kenaf. I wouldn't imagine any 2X4 would hammer real well.
http://www.kenafsociety.org/

Suffice it to say that fiber crops have there own set of problems.

ps-Hope that's quick enough for you, Frank. But I don't think you'll be sawing kenaf anytime soon.

DanG · January 26, 2002, 09:14:34 AM

Sounds like another flash-in-the-pan fad, to me. Remember a few years ago when they came up with the fence posts made from recycled disposable diapers? :

I don't seem to be seeing a lot of them around, now. :D

Ron Scott · January 27, 2002, 07:48:25 AM

Most all of the USDA-Forest Service & other public land picnic tables are made of recycled milk jugs. They are of dark brown wood color, harder to carve on, move, steal, or burn up. More vandal proof.

Also, less maintenance due to weather and they don't have to be stained on a regular basis.

Frank_Pender · January 27, 2002, 08:08:45 AM

Yep, it does not sound as though it would grwo here anyway. I woke up to twn inches of snow this morning. It sounds as though this is a warm climate type of critter. Besides, I would have to get a smaller saw, most likely a band, :D to cut the stufff. then I wold be worried about the over-run, if I was getting enough or not. ;D

CHARLIE · January 28, 2002, 09:57:14 AM

It seems like I've seen articles about someone making lumber out of wheat too. So this is probably the same type of deal. What you have to remember is that they need GLUE to put this stuff together. I think glued up products have their place and do produce a cheap and stable alternative to wood, but the stuff is hard on saw blades and the dust is very hard on lungs.

Jeff · January 28, 2002, 03:53:35 PM

I still vote for trees and the free energy to produce it from the sun. Just think how much more energy it will take to produce all the ingrediants for this and combine em together to make a stud. Might be cheeper, but less enviromental friendly I will bet

Don P · January 28, 2002, 05:43:57 PM

Charlie, I remember that panel, it was wheat straw. Neat claim was that it pulled up enough silica in life to be fire retardant. Never saw it hit the shelf :

. So howcum we keep trying to make building products out of little stuff and toilet paper out of big stuff :-/.
Alternatives are always worth considering, I've seen bamboo scaffold 60 stories tall

. Not bad for grass. :D
I got into it with a guy over my wood consumption. Most of the timber I get was grown in under a human lifetime. A relatively small amount of energy turned it into a shape that I made into a wall....Blown foam, high input wonder materials and vinyl from dead dinosaurs just doesn't seem to me to be the rational alternative.
I saw a report on one of the synthetic deck boards having a mysterious oily "bleed", I appreciate your clearing it up DanG :D

Ron Scott · February 01, 2002, 02:34:07 PM

Myth

Nature knows best.

Fact

Nature "knows" nothing! Foresters can improve on nature by using a knowledge of biological facts to direct natural processes. Forests can be grown and managed much more efficiently with scientific management than when left to nature. Nature can be brutal, as witnessed by disastrous fires, hurricanes, and volcanic eruptions.

L. Wakefield · February 02, 2002, 03:45:46 PM

'Nature' as perceived, embodies the sum total of all the living and natural forces currently at work. Growth and decay, the competition of multiple species- the history of the area, are to be seen by those who take the time to look. The lessons having been learned- to whatever extent they are- we then have an opportunity to try our hands. We have a specific focus (or foci) and will try to optimize these. Usually we are trying to make money, which does not enter into nature's equations, though many species are afforded a living within the 'natural' scheme. Many of them have to scrabble for it, however- much as we are doing. lw

Bud Man · February 24, 2002, 09:34:22 PM

Nature must bust a gut laughing at man's feeble attempts to alter natural occurances, but man is resilent in his effort to alter things. === Americans have altered things to the point that most live like kings of but a short time gone by, in the overall scheme of things.====I think the expression of : "May You Live In Interesting Times" has always had a translation of : " Interesting Times Are-- To Every Person-- A Result Of Each Individual Utilizing One's God-Given Mind "

CHARLIE · February 26, 2002, 01:15:52 PM

There is no Mother Nature! It's every specie for themselves! One against the other. Trees have consorted to destroy mankind but were unfortunate enough to be bound to the ground. They do the best they can by waving their limbs and branches to create enough wind to wreak havouc on mankind! If you don't believe me, next time it's windy, go look at the trees....they're all waving their limbs in concert! Watchout for the trees! Don't be caught in the forest alone after dark!

;)

Ron Wenrich · February 26, 2002, 03:03:45 PM

There is a book out that says that plants have intelligence. Actually, they are more intelligent than animals.

All species, whether plant or animal, tries to expand their range. Animals have a hard time doing this, since plants often keep their populations in check. But plants have developed usefulness to animals and have them expand it's range.

How else would corn go from Central America to Europe and Asia? How about Chinese chestnut to the US? Sitka spruce to the UK?

Of course, some of them have made great adaptations and are now really hard to get rid of. Kudzu comes to mind. Some of these have been so succesful, they have pushed native plants aside where they are now getting rather rare.

Bud Man · February 27, 2002, 08:17:49 PM

Florida is a Biological Nightmare with the introduction of plants-fish mammals -birds- monkeys -reptiles and people !!

CHARLIE · March 01, 2002, 10:59:58 AM

Ya mean like da water hyacinths and da walking catfish? Da hyacinths will jes choke outta river or lake and dem walking catfish have lungs. If'n ya poison da ditch or lake deys in, dey jes walks across da road to de other ditch or lake.

Of course Minnesota is experiencing that too. Those Transatlantic freighters have brought all kinds of foreign critters and vegetation into lake Superior and then they spread out over the state via unsuspecting fishermen. :( :(

Bud Man · March 01, 2002, 01:04:31 PM

The worlds getting smaller every day and isolation exist in very few places. It's been said that 98% of all organism's that have ever lived are now extinct. It's estimated that there have been 55 to 60 billion humans on the face of the earth and with 6 billion living now that means that 1 out of every 10 that has ever been is present now. The numbers are not in humans favor.