Heart Pacemaker and Chain Saw operations

abukafura · August 28, 2021, 08:43:01 PM

I tried to post this question on the Chain Saw section but was unable to do so.
I had a heart pacemaker installed last February and was told by my cardiologist and other medical people that I could no longer use a gas powered chain saw. It seems that the chain saw generates a magnetic field when it is running which interferes with the pacemaker's operation.
I own two parcels of woodland in northeast Wisconsin---80 acres and 60 acres. I have used chain saws on these parcels my entire life. Not being able to use them now has crimped my style considerably. I am afraid to try using the chain saws that I have right now.
Can anyone shed light on this potential problem and does anyone know of any solutions that would allow me to use either battery powered or gas chain saws. Thank you

doc henderson · August 28, 2021, 09:09:32 PM

what brand and other info do you know. I will check. they may error on the safe side with a theoretical concern. many do not allow an MRI, but actually it can be turned off and do fine. is it also a defibrillator? to the cardiologist, they may just think running a chainsaw is not important so why chance it. my buddy @Cardiodoc is on the forum (sparsely) and is a wood worker and runs a chainsaw.

Mooseherder · August 28, 2021, 09:32:25 PM

Echo has a nice electric saw if you're cleared to run one.

doc henderson · August 28, 2021, 09:38:03 PM

electric motors have magnets too.

8)

:D ;)

doc henderson · August 28, 2021, 09:55:13 PM

I had written a paragraph and lost it. here goes number two. it is a theoretical concern only. has prob. never actually caused a problem. a speaker has a big magnet that looks like the one we use to turn off a pacemaker in the ED. If your heart does not beat without the pacemaker (unlikely, complete heart block) then I would be more concerned. most are a just in case too slow or too fast. some have a defibrillator if you have cardiomyopathy (weak heart) or arrhythmia (v-tach). no one wants the liability. if you go out and work too hard and have a heart attack, your wife may think the chainsaw did it (coronary problem, not an electrical conduction problem). she can hire an attorney to think the same way. If your pacer only works intermittently, or is to keep your heart rate above 70 so you can be on blood pressure medication, the you should be ok. i assume 0 (none) responsibility for your decision. i would not personally hesitate to run my saw, or any other gas or electric motor. in the ED if we are trying to see what is going on with an EKG, we use a magnet to turn off the pace maker to see the intrinsic rhythm. i have only seen a few patient in 40 years that turning off a pacer would make the patient unconscious. i guess you could rig the saw to shut off it you are unconscious and your pacemaker should kick back in. I took care of an 80 year old retired doc, Dr. Bebe in Albany NY. he got a pacemaker back in the 90s. i was discharging him and told him not to raise his arms above his shoulder for a few weeks, as it could pull the lead away from the inside of the heart wall. he got out of bed, and stuck a poses, then did a motion with his arms of a golf swing. he asked, "did my arms go above my shoulders"?. I said no. he had a golf T time at 1 pm.

doc henderson · August 28, 2021, 09:59:45 PM

do not hold the chainsaw against your chest while operating. used in a traditional safe manner should not be a problem. you could get a vest that shields magnetic fields from phones, or get something to put in your shirt pocket covering your pacemaker. If you run the saw and feel bad, stop. they can interrogate the pacemaker and tell you if it was acting funny or not. your cardiologist may need to get some hobbies.

drlewis · August 29, 2021, 09:18:09 AM

my dad and brother both had pacemakers for years ,both ran saws and welders with no troubles,dad ran my skidders ,hauled chips did what he wanted too,maybe they had a diff,kind of pacemaker. both have passed now but pacemaker was not the cause.good luck

GAB · August 29, 2021, 02:00:44 PM

@doc henderson:
On this subject of implants - After my third heart attack they implanted a defib in me and told me to stay away from welders. In other words they put an end to my welding days.
The doc did not say anything about chainsaws or microwaves and I have been using mine.
Question: What or how is a defib unit affected by welders and is it only one type or all?
TIA
GAB

doc henderson · August 29, 2021, 03:02:31 PM

so the pacemakers has a lead that has a tip that looks like a spring, the lead goes in and the doc watches under real time x-ray (flouro). he gets the tip wear he wants it and turns to screw the lead into the muscle wall of the heart. It will scar in over a short time, and why you are careful at first so it does not pull out. today pacemaker are tiny computers that sense the heart beat and electrical activity of the heart. It is set to speed thing up or overdrive pace if things are going too fast, and can then slow it down. the fatal arrhythmias like v-tach that were long ago known as sudden death, can be shocked soon after detected. this last thing is what the defibrillator does. the concern is if the pacer/defibrillator senses the electrical activity and falsely responds as though it is some fatal arrhythmia. or in the case of a magnet, shuts off. I will ask specifically about the defib part as well.

doc henderson · August 29, 2021, 03:09:51 PM

official word is more concern with welding and the electromagnetic field being interpreted as v-fib. you might get a shock from the device that is not needed

HemlockKing · August 29, 2021, 05:22:20 PM

I know someone who recently had a pacemaker put in, doc told him no working on engines, no welding, nothing to do with electricity basically, said nothing about no chainsaws or operating any thing with a engine

Ianab · August 29, 2021, 06:51:04 PM

Quote from: GAB on August 29, 2021, 02:00:44 PMQuestion: What or how is a defib unit affected by welders and is it only one type or all?

One factor would be the amount of current, and it's proximity, Welders are using hundreds of amps of current, being turned on / off at random, and the cable could be very close your chest. The effects drop off with distance, so walking under high voltage power lines carrying 1,000 amps isn't an issue. But if you were a high voltage linesman, they'd probably want you to retire?

A chainsaw has a small magnetic field (from the magneto) and a high voltage pulse from the coil, but they aren't huge amounts of energy, not like the arc from a welder. And it's generally a couple of feet away from your chest.